The problem here is Danish law not cryptic. Governments, especially socialist governments, try and control all aspects of people's lives and this is where we're all headed.
Please...leave the political rhetoric in the trash where it belongs...gambling has always been controlled in non-socialist nations as much as socialist nations and always will be thanks to rhetoric, the type of government has nothing to do with it. Hell in fact in some cases its the exact opposite. In Russia gambling was 100% LEGAL everywhere until recently...now its only legal in 4 areas compares to how many places in the freedom loving democracy of the USA? Oh yeah...toss the rhetoric out.
Back on topic. They wont care about losing a nation because as with other games with such offers like Atlantica Online...they sell like mad and bring in a ton of money.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I am considering dropping LotRO to play this. (No trolling please as to either game.) However, I have no idea what the problem is with lock boxes since I have no idea what a lock box is. So, what is a lock box?
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
Originally posted by JayBirdz I've been patiently waiting for the U.S. legal system to take notice of games using these systems. Companies can manipulate the percentages of winning on the fly. Raise them to generate excitement in the community, then set them to basically zero. Even better a script can do this. If a person has played a game which uses these systems they've seen it time after time.
Player1: Did you know player A got 2 yesterday off of 20 boxes!!!
Player2: Ya! I heard PlayerB got 2 from 15 !
Player3: I think it's time for me to try my luck.
Sometime later:
Player1: Dam... I heard PlayerB, PlayerC, PlayerD all bought 40 each and not a one of them won this time.
Player2: I know right.... I guess PlayerE got lucky with his 1 win from 60 :S
Player1: I so want , but I don't feel like getting burned..
ect.... ect... ect....
The whole appeal to using these systems.
1: Small amount of resources to create items.
2. Zero upkeep until it's time to freshen up the system a year + later.
3. A script can handle the percentages so that the server does not become over saturated to quickly.
4. Profit.
You've just described both the behavior of a random system and a non-random system. It would be a lot easier to just set a fairly low % chance to drop, and people will see patterns like the above described pattern and then go buy a bunch of stuff. Cryptic doesn't have to fool people into doing it, they do it to themselves. That's why Casinos make money...people think they see patterns in randomness and spend all their money on it.
I'm not a big fan of random things in games. I especially don't like it when you spend real money on it. The only thing you can be sure of is that you're likely to lose money or time when you play with the RNG.
Problems with your points..
1.Casino's are regulated for a reason.
1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems?
2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults.
3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages.
Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing.
I am considering dropping LotRO to play this. (No trolling please as to either game.) However, I have no idea what the problem is with lock boxes since I have no idea what a lock box is. So, what is a lock box?
Basically, you buy a box that *might* have an item in it.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I am considering dropping LotRO to play this. (No trolling please as to either game.) However, I have no idea what the problem is with lock boxes since I have no idea what a lock box is. So, what is a lock box?
Basically, you buy a box that *might* have an item in it.
Actually, it's a box that drops from a mob and you buy a key to open it for the chance at an item. The thing is they drop so often that they force you to either buy more space in your inventory/bank to store them or you delete them . The keys to open them can be a bit pricey.
I do see it a a scam, but just a little one and being entirely blown out of proportion
If my memory is right, Prime Minister Chamberlain said something similar about Germany invading Poland in 1933. "It was only a "little" invasion... "
Conjecture aside, complacency over the "little" things is what can lead to the whole MMO market getting polluted with junk like these lockboxes. Just my 2 cents.
13 posts before Godwin's Law kicked in....is that a record?
(Also, I think you meant 1939)
But yeah, much as I enjoyed Champions Online, I've since abandoned Cryptic entirely. They had enough problems on their own, but just when they looked like they were starting to turn around (CO F2P was actually pretty decent for a bit), becoming part of Perfect World seems to have brought the evil out in droves.
Not calling YOU a fanboy here, but it's funny that when Atari still owned Cryptic, all the fanboys blamed Atari for every marketing/dev/PR disaster, and every other Cryptic failure. Now, PWE owns Cryptic, and now all Cryptic's fails are on PWE. I think the saying "the only constant in all your failed relationships is you" applies here. I can't wait to see how Cryptic destroys yet another IP with Neverwinter.
I'd bet the vast majority of STO's players live in NA. As long as the USA doesn't crack down on this gambling scam, Cryptic will throw the rest of the world under the bus as long as their main cash cow continues giving up the milk. Even if the US government doesn't step in, odds are some cash desperate states like California will look into ways to get their hands in this cookie jar.
I hate to admit it, but they got 50-70 bucks outa me. 50-70 trys and dident get either ship, Fudge these developers. This is retarted, No I am for buying them..... Worse is at 1.3M each, I coulda sold the keys and Bought the darn ship.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
The problem here is Danish law not cryptic. Governments, especially socialist governments, try and control all aspects of people's lives and this is where we're all headed.
Please...leave the political rhetoric in the trash where it belongs...gambling has always been controlled in non-socialist nations as much as socialist nations and always will be thanks to rhetoric, the type of government has nothing to do with it. Hell in fact in some cases its the exact opposite. In Russia gambling was 100% LEGAL everywhere until recently...now its only legal in 4 areas compares to how many places in the freedom loving democracy of the USA? Oh yeah...toss the rhetoric out.
Back on topic. They wont care about losing a nation because as with other games with such offers like Atlantica Online...they sell like mad and bring in a ton of money.
That's where your argument belongs anyways, this isn't proper gambling, its a reward system in cash shop game, that danish law seeks this level of control is an issue with danish law, jesus this isn't like betting the horses(whcih shouldn't be regulated for consenting adults either) Trust me, Lucky Luciano and co. wouldn't have fought a turf war over item boxs in an mmo.
And America is a bad example, we're well down the road of socialitrst folly ourselves these days.
Originally posted by JayBirdz Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by JayBirdzI've been patiently waiting for the U.S. legal system to take notice of games using these systems. Companies can manipulate the percentages of winning on the fly. Raise them to generate excitement in the community, then set them to basically zero. Even better a script can do this. If a person has played a game which uses these systems they've seen it time after time.Player1: Did you know player A got 2 yesterday off of 20 boxes!!!Player2: Ya! I heard PlayerB got 2 from 15 !Player3: I think it's time for me to try my luck.Sometime later:Player1: Dam... I heard PlayerB, PlayerC, PlayerD all bought 40 each and not a one of them won this time.Player2: I know right.... I guess PlayerE got lucky with his 1 win from 60 :S Player1: I so want , but I don't feel like getting burned.. ect.... ect... ect....The whole appeal to using these systems.1: Small amount of resources to create items.2. Zero upkeep until it's time to freshen up the system a year + later. 3. A script can handle the percentages so that the server does not become over saturated to quickly. 4. Profit.
You've just described both the behavior of a random system and a non-random system. It would be a lot easier to just set a fairly low % chance to drop, and people will see patterns like the above described pattern and then go buy a bunch of stuff. Cryptic doesn't have to fool people into doing it, they do it to themselves. That's why Casinos make money...people think they see patterns in randomness and spend all their money on it. I'm not a big fan of random things in games. I especially don't like it when you spend real money on it. The only thing you can be sure of is that you're likely to lose money or time when you play with the RNG. Problems with your points..
1.Casino's are regulated for a reason.
1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems?
2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults.
3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages.
Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing.
You have no good data to determine drop rates, other than complaints on the forums, and here. You're assuming that the developers are evil based on anecdotes, when it's far more likely that they are lazy. Everything you've described can be attributed to random drops and incorrect perceptions of what's happening. The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players.
Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money. Some of the people win, some of the time, but the longer you play, the more likely you are to run at a loss, not a win. That's just how it works, yet people keep on playing, buying a chance to win.
So, they don't have to do anything, and they'll rake in just as much cash. My money is them being lazy. It's certainly not on one of those drop boxes giving me what I want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players.
Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money.
Remember, Cryptic did get caught "inflating" the drop rate via blasting account names as "winners" across the screen that were no longer playing the game, did not exist or never won a ship. Of course they are mucking with numbers.
I am considering dropping LotRO to play this. (No trolling please as to either game.) However, I have no idea what the problem is with lock boxes since I have no idea what a lock box is. So, what is a lock box?
If you really like Star Trek you may enjoy STO, but LotRO is a far better game in many ways. I won't go into detail since that wasn't what you asked about (I play both).
Lock boxes are essentially a lottery system. Boxes drop often. Each box when paired with a key can give a player a small random chance of winning a shiny new star ship. Keys are either bough with real money or in-game for a small fotune. Cryptic was heavily criticized for abusing in-game messaging (forced spam) and giving false hope by greatly exaggerating the number of ship winners.
The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players.
Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money.
Remember, Cryptic did get caught "inflating" the drop rate via blasting account names as "winners" across the screen that were no longer playing the game, did not exist or never won a ship. Of course they are mucking with numbers.
Do you have a link to them getting caught? I definitely don't dispute it... just wondering if "caught" was just the threads on the STO forums or there was some sort of actual confession from Cryptic. I am curious how they spammed the names of players who don't exist.
I've only logged in the last few weeks (months?) to load up DOff missions and log out - and during that paltry 5-minute span I typically will see at least 2-3 spam notices about Ferengi ships being won. So I was already suspicious about this, because I've seen this tactic used in other non-AAA games. It suggests a win-rate of about 250 a day, 7500 a month... I'm not sure STO still even has 7500 active players, much less 7500 constantly opening boxes, and I'm sure they didn't project a 100% win rate. So yeah, the spam was faked, but obviously I can't prove it.
Lizard, I'd guess the reason they inflate it is to make it look like tons of people are winning and all you have to do is open your lockbox, and you can be a winner too! The "keeping up with the winners" psychology is powerful motivation for some people. But then guess what, you're on box 12 and still no winner... maybe it's the next one!
Originally posted by JayBirdzI've been patiently waiting for the U.S. legal system to take notice of games using these systems. Companies can manipulate the percentages of winning on the fly. Raise them to generate excitement in the community, then set them to basically zero. Even better a script can do this. If a person has played a game which uses these systems they've seen it time after time.Player1: Did you know player A got 2 yesterday off of 20 boxes!!!Player2: Ya! I heard PlayerB got 2 from 15 !Player3: I think it's time for me to try my luck.Sometime later:Player1: Dam... I heard PlayerB, PlayerC, PlayerD all bought 40 each and not a one of them won this time.Player2: I know right.... I guess PlayerE got lucky with his 1 win from 60 :S Player1: I so want , but I don't feel like getting burned.. ect.... ect... ect....The whole appeal to using these systems.1: Small amount of resources to create items.2. Zero upkeep until it's time to freshen up the system a year + later. 3. A script can handle the percentages so that the server does not become over saturated to quickly. 4. Profit.
You've just described both the behavior of a random system and a non-random system. It would be a lot easier to just set a fairly low % chance to drop, and people will see patterns like the above described pattern and then go buy a bunch of stuff. Cryptic doesn't have to fool people into doing it, they do it to themselves. That's why Casinos make money...people think they see patterns in randomness and spend all their money on it. I'm not a big fan of random things in games. I especially don't like it when you spend real money on it. The only thing you can be sure of is that you're likely to lose money or time when you play with the RNG.
Problems with your points..
1.Casino's are regulated for a reason.
1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems?
2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults.
3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages.
Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing.
You have no good data to determine drop rates, other than complaints on the forums, and here. You're assuming that the developers are evil based on anecdotes, when it's far more likely that they are lazy. Everything you've described can be attributed to random drops and incorrect perceptions of what's happening. The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players.
Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money. Some of the people win, some of the time, but the longer you play, the more likely you are to run at a loss, not a win. That's just how it works, yet people keep on playing, buying a chance to win.
So, they don't have to do anything, and they'll rake in just as much cash. My money is them being lazy. It's certainly not on one of those drop boxes giving me what I want.
You can't prove that they aren't doing it. I can't prove that they are. Keep your faith and I'll keep my reality of the way the world works. For companies like Cryptic money talks and bullshit walks. There's no laws preventing them from manipulating the numbers.
Your first argument comparing these systems to a casino was absurd.
You second doesn't really seem to hold much water either.
Loot drops use a random generator: The rarest of rare items do in fact become more common after being in game for a year plus. The top items in systems such as these lock boxes never do. They remain as elusive as the day they were introduced to the majority of people.
Cryptic and it's parent company's suits would be flat out stupid to pick a system such as lock boxes and not take complete advantage of said system.
Originally posted by ThreeSixty Do you have a link to them getting caught? I definitely don't dispute it... just wondering if "caught" was just the threads on the STO forums or there was some sort of actual confession from Cryptic. I am curious how they spammed the names of players who don't exist.
I think the first post about it was here. IIRC there was a follow up via the patch notes after this where the phantom/non-winner name spamming was "fixed".
It would be very simple to spam fake names. All they need is some code to generate random names to flash across the screen as winners.
Follow all the threads about this. The ship win spam was so frequent, it equated to thousands upon thousands of "winners" per week. If this were really true, every player would have one by now.
Originally posted by ThreeSixty Do you have a link to them getting caught? I definitely don't dispute it... just wondering if "caught" was just the threads on the STO forums or there was some sort of actual confession from Cryptic. I am curious how they spammed the names of players who don't exist.
I think the first post about it was here. IIRC there was a follow up via the patch notes after this where the phantom/non-winner name spamming was "fixed".
It would be very simple to spam fake names. All they need is some code to generate random names to flash across the screen as winners.
Follow all the threads about this. The ship win spam was so frequent, it equated to thousands upon thousands of "winners" per week. If this were really true, every player would have one by now.
I stopped following the forum about 3 months after launch when I realized the lifetime membership my buddy talked me into was maybe not that great of an investment. To its credit, I guess, STO held me longer than TOR. I appreciate the link. Spamming non-winners I already suspected, I just assumed they were people off-line or possibly long-inactive, but completely fictitious players never really occurred to me. Guess I need to go back and take Advanced Cynicism again.
Mildly curious now how many times my name has been spammed without my knowledge, though. Never opened a lockbox.
Just another game that goes into the Caveat Emptor Online pile.
I have to say while i usually don't care about stuff like this(if you don't agree with cryptics way of doing business, don't do business with cryptic), i draw the line at outright gambling with real world currencies(Turbine points are arguably just as much currency as the tokens you use in a real casino). Lets remember that these games are still aimed and frequented to a big extent by minors, and i simply don't agree with a business thats encouraging minors to gamble with money.
Gambling is bad and addicting enough for adults, might aswell serve beer and cigarettes in school cantinas if we want darwins law to sort em out young.
And before someone comes with technicalities, yeah they might have dodged the need for a casino license, but its still gambling, you still need cash for it and it plays on exactly the same human behaviour(with the same consequences) as does a slot machine as you see in any vegas casino. And we don't let children into those for good reasons.
So if they want gambling in their game, no problemo, they just need to rise age limit to 18, introduce technical mechanics ensuring minors can't use the software, and get a casino license. Oh they can't do those things? Might be the reason why online gambling is illegal in Europe, you have no freaking way of keeping the minors away from going postal with daddies CC.
Originally posted by JayBirdz Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by JayBirdzOriginally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by JayBirdzI've been patiently waiting for the U.S. legal system to take notice of games using these systems. Companies can manipulate the percentages of winning on the fly. Raise them to generate excitement in the community, then set them to basically zero. Even better a script can do this. If a person has played a game which uses these systems they've seen it time after time.Player1: Did you know player A got 2 yesterday off of 20 boxes!!!Player2: Ya! I heard PlayerB got 2 from 15 !Player3: I think it's time for me to try my luck.Sometime later:Player1: Dam... I heard PlayerB, PlayerC, PlayerD all bought 40 each and not a one of them won this time.Player2: I know right.... I guess PlayerE got lucky with his 1 win from 60 :S Player1: I so want , but I don't feel like getting burned.. ect.... ect... ect....The whole appeal to using these systems.1: Small amount of resources to create items.2. Zero upkeep until it's time to freshen up the system a year + later. 3. A script can handle the percentages so that the server does not become over saturated to quickly. 4. Profit.
You've just described both the behavior of a random system and a non-random system. It would be a lot easier to just set a fairly low % chance to drop, and people will see patterns like the above described pattern and then go buy a bunch of stuff. Cryptic doesn't have to fool people into doing it, they do it to themselves. That's why Casinos make money...people think they see patterns in randomness and spend all their money on it. I'm not a big fan of random things in games. I especially don't like it when you spend real money on it. The only thing you can be sure of is that you're likely to lose money or time when you play with the RNG. Problems with your points.. 1.Casino's are regulated for a reason. 1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems?2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults.3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages.Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing. You have no good data to determine drop rates, other than complaints on the forums, and here. You're assuming that the developers are evil based on anecdotes, when it's far more likely that they are lazy. Everything you've described can be attributed to random drops and incorrect perceptions of what's happening. The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players. Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money. Some of the people win, some of the time, but the longer you play, the more likely you are to run at a loss, not a win. That's just how it works, yet people keep on playing, buying a chance to win. So, they don't have to do anything, and they'll rake in just as much cash. My money is them being lazy. It's certainly not on one of those drop boxes giving me what I want. You can't prove that they aren't doing it. I can't prove that they are. Keep your faith and I'll keep my reality of the way the world works. For companies like Cryptic money talks and bullshit walks. There's no laws preventing them from manipulating the numbers.
Your first argument comparing these systems to a casino was absurd.
You second doesn't really seem to hold much water either.
Loot drops use a random generator: The rarest of rare items do in fact become more common after being in game for a year plus. The top items in systems such as these lock boxes never do. They remain as elusive as the day they were introduced to the majority of people.
Cryptic and it's parent company's suits would be flat out stupid to pick a system such as lock boxes and not take complete advantage of said system.
Agree to disagree.
I would be happy to agree to disagree, except you're labeling what I'm thinking as 'faith' and what you're thinking as 'reality'. Not very agreeable there.
Anyway, other posts have pointed out, with references to reality what might have been happening. Cryptic being lazy and dumb, not sinister.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Concerning lockboxes in the Netherlands, the correct course of action is to simply not have the game playable in the Netherlands. No reason that everyone in the game should be denied something they want just because one country has different views on virtual items.
It is possible that the EU law would apply here as well. Cryptic would have to block access to any country in the European Union, which I would imagine is a significant chunk of income for them. Is that worth it?
Cryptic knew full well what they were doing with the lockboxes. They are a scam.
They havent been trying to scam Trek fans all along?
The "buy a lifetime sub only before launch"?
The "Get 6 folks to sub is only way to get this kicking ship", only to have the item available in item shop a short time later? I wonder how many Trek fans bought 6 boxes a piece just to get it?
I never liked Trek until the remade version, but those that have loved it all along deserved better than the half assed product Cryptic gave them. Full price for a MMO game made in under 2 yrs is a croc. Trek deserved a minimum of 4 yrs, and 75M or so invested.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Comments
Same here. These cheapen the whole experience for me personally. It is kind of sad to see MMO developers moving in this direction.
Please...leave the political rhetoric in the trash where it belongs...gambling has always been controlled in non-socialist nations as much as socialist nations and always will be thanks to rhetoric, the type of government has nothing to do with it. Hell in fact in some cases its the exact opposite. In Russia gambling was 100% LEGAL everywhere until recently...now its only legal in 4 areas compares to how many places in the freedom loving democracy of the USA? Oh yeah...toss the rhetoric out.
Back on topic. They wont care about losing a nation because as with other games with such offers like Atlantica Online...they sell like mad and bring in a ton of money.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I am considering dropping LotRO to play this. (No trolling please as to either game.) However, I have no idea what the problem is with lock boxes since I have no idea what a lock box is. So, what is a lock box?
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
Problems with your points..
1.Casino's are regulated for a reason.
1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems?
2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults.
3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages.
Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing.
Basically, you buy a box that *might* have an item in it.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Actually, it's a box that drops from a mob and you buy a key to open it for the chance at an item. The thing is they drop so often that they force you to either buy more space in your inventory/bank to store them or you delete them . The keys to open them can be a bit pricey.
Not calling YOU a fanboy here, but it's funny that when Atari still owned Cryptic, all the fanboys blamed Atari for every marketing/dev/PR disaster, and every other Cryptic failure. Now, PWE owns Cryptic, and now all Cryptic's fails are on PWE. I think the saying "the only constant in all your failed relationships is you" applies here. I can't wait to see how Cryptic destroys yet another IP with Neverwinter.
I'd bet the vast majority of STO's players live in NA. As long as the USA doesn't crack down on this gambling scam, Cryptic will throw the rest of the world under the bus as long as their main cash cow continues giving up the milk. Even if the US government doesn't step in, odds are some cash desperate states like California will look into ways to get their hands in this cookie jar.
I hate to admit it, but they got 50-70 bucks outa me. 50-70 trys and dident get either ship, Fudge these developers. This is retarted, No I am for buying them..... Worse is at 1.3M each, I coulda sold the keys and Bought the darn ship.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
That's where your argument belongs anyways, this isn't proper gambling, its a reward system in cash shop game, that danish law seeks this level of control is an issue with danish law, jesus this isn't like betting the horses(whcih shouldn't be regulated for consenting adults either) Trust me, Lucky Luciano and co. wouldn't have fought a turf war over item boxs in an mmo.
And America is a bad example, we're well down the road of socialitrst folly ourselves these days.
Problems with your points..
1.Casino's are regulated for a reason.
1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems?
2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults.
3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages.
Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing.
You have no good data to determine drop rates, other than complaints on the forums, and here. You're assuming that the developers are evil based on anecdotes, when it's far more likely that they are lazy. Everything you've described can be attributed to random drops and incorrect perceptions of what's happening. The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players.
Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money. Some of the people win, some of the time, but the longer you play, the more likely you are to run at a loss, not a win. That's just how it works, yet people keep on playing, buying a chance to win.
So, they don't have to do anything, and they'll rake in just as much cash. My money is them being lazy. It's certainly not on one of those drop boxes giving me what I want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Remember, Cryptic did get caught "inflating" the drop rate via blasting account names as "winners" across the screen that were no longer playing the game, did not exist or never won a ship. Of course they are mucking with numbers.
If you really like Star Trek you may enjoy STO, but LotRO is a far better game in many ways. I won't go into detail since that wasn't what you asked about (I play both).
Lock boxes are essentially a lottery system. Boxes drop often. Each box when paired with a key can give a player a small random chance of winning a shiny new star ship. Keys are either bough with real money or in-game for a small fotune. Cryptic was heavily criticized for abusing in-game messaging (forced spam) and giving false hope by greatly exaggerating the number of ship winners.
Do you have a link to them getting caught? I definitely don't dispute it... just wondering if "caught" was just the threads on the STO forums or there was some sort of actual confession from Cryptic. I am curious how they spammed the names of players who don't exist.
I've only logged in the last few weeks (months?) to load up DOff missions and log out - and during that paltry 5-minute span I typically will see at least 2-3 spam notices about Ferengi ships being won. So I was already suspicious about this, because I've seen this tactic used in other non-AAA games. It suggests a win-rate of about 250 a day, 7500 a month... I'm not sure STO still even has 7500 active players, much less 7500 constantly opening boxes, and I'm sure they didn't project a 100% win rate. So yeah, the spam was faked, but obviously I can't prove it.
Lizard, I'd guess the reason they inflate it is to make it look like tons of people are winning and all you have to do is open your lockbox, and you can be a winner too! The "keeping up with the winners" psychology is powerful motivation for some people. But then guess what, you're on box 12 and still no winner... maybe it's the next one!
At least Vegas has cocktail waitresses.
You can't prove that they aren't doing it. I can't prove that they are. Keep your faith and I'll keep my reality of the way the world works. For companies like Cryptic money talks and bullshit walks. There's no laws preventing them from manipulating the numbers.
Your first argument comparing these systems to a casino was absurd.
You second doesn't really seem to hold much water either.
Loot drops use a random generator: The rarest of rare items do in fact become more common after being in game for a year plus. The top items in systems such as these lock boxes never do. They remain as elusive as the day they were introduced to the majority of people.
Cryptic and it's parent company's suits would be flat out stupid to pick a system such as lock boxes and not take complete advantage of said system.
Agree to disagree.
I think the first post about it was here. IIRC there was a follow up via the patch notes after this where the phantom/non-winner name spamming was "fixed".
It would be very simple to spam fake names. All they need is some code to generate random names to flash across the screen as winners.
Follow all the threads about this. The ship win spam was so frequent, it equated to thousands upon thousands of "winners" per week. If this were really true, every player would have one by now.
I stopped following the forum about 3 months after launch when I realized the lifetime membership my buddy talked me into was maybe not that great of an investment. To its credit, I guess, STO held me longer than TOR. I appreciate the link. Spamming non-winners I already suspected, I just assumed they were people off-line or possibly long-inactive, but completely fictitious players never really occurred to me. Guess I need to go back and take Advanced Cynicism again.
Mildly curious now how many times my name has been spammed without my knowledge, though. Never opened a lockbox.
Just another game that goes into the Caveat Emptor Online pile.
I have to say while i usually don't care about stuff like this(if you don't agree with cryptics way of doing business, don't do business with cryptic), i draw the line at outright gambling with real world currencies(Turbine points are arguably just as much currency as the tokens you use in a real casino). Lets remember that these games are still aimed and frequented to a big extent by minors, and i simply don't agree with a business thats encouraging minors to gamble with money.
Gambling is bad and addicting enough for adults, might aswell serve beer and cigarettes in school cantinas if we want darwins law to sort em out young.
And before someone comes with technicalities, yeah they might have dodged the need for a casino license, but its still gambling, you still need cash for it and it plays on exactly the same human behaviour(with the same consequences) as does a slot machine as you see in any vegas casino. And we don't let children into those for good reasons.
So if they want gambling in their game, no problemo, they just need to rise age limit to 18, introduce technical mechanics ensuring minors can't use the software, and get a casino license. Oh they can't do those things? Might be the reason why online gambling is illegal in Europe, you have no freaking way of keeping the minors away from going postal with daddies CC.
Problems with your points.. 1.Casino's are regulated for a reason. 1a. Are the cash shops who use these systems? 2.The second problem with your statement is that these are games targeted at younger audiences just as much as adults. 3. Random chance: Some of the losses can definitely be attributed to just bad dice rolls. Though even then the availability of those items would build up after a year+. Yet the top rewards rarely ever do. They remain elusive as if they were still brand new. That is, until a newer shiny takes it's place and developers / publishers stop toying with that older items percentages. Top all that off with the revenue these systems generate verses the costs of making that one item. Having one guy or a script change the numbers as needed to prevent over saturation. Yeah.. you convinced me. A company with a cash shop selling items through a system like this would never do such a thing like manipulate the numbers. Their morals would prevent them from doing such a thing.
You have no good data to determine drop rates, other than complaints on the forums, and here. You're assuming that the developers are evil based on anecdotes, when it's far more likely that they are lazy. Everything you've described can be attributed to random drops and incorrect perceptions of what's happening. The difference between evil Cryptic playing with the numbers and just regular random behavior is indistinguishable to the players. Why would they bother with mucking about with drop rates, when they could do absolutely nothing and get the exact same results? That's why gambling is such a money maker. The house will always make more money. Some of the people win, some of the time, but the longer you play, the more likely you are to run at a loss, not a win. That's just how it works, yet people keep on playing, buying a chance to win. So, they don't have to do anything, and they'll rake in just as much cash. My money is them being lazy. It's certainly not on one of those drop boxes giving me what I want.
You can't prove that they aren't doing it. I can't prove that they are. Keep your faith and I'll keep my reality of the way the world works. For companies like Cryptic money talks and bullshit walks. There's no laws preventing them from manipulating the numbers.
Your first argument comparing these systems to a casino was absurd.
You second doesn't really seem to hold much water either.
Loot drops use a random generator: The rarest of rare items do in fact become more common after being in game for a year plus. The top items in systems such as these lock boxes never do. They remain as elusive as the day they were introduced to the majority of people.
Cryptic and it's parent company's suits would be flat out stupid to pick a system such as lock boxes and not take complete advantage of said system.
Agree to disagree.
I would be happy to agree to disagree, except you're labeling what I'm thinking as 'faith' and what you're thinking as 'reality'. Not very agreeable there.
Anyway, other posts have pointed out, with references to reality what might have been happening. Cryptic being lazy and dumb, not sinister.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
They havent been trying to scam Trek fans all along?
The "buy a lifetime sub only before launch"?
The "Get 6 folks to sub is only way to get this kicking ship", only to have the item available in item shop a short time later? I wonder how many Trek fans bought 6 boxes a piece just to get it?
I never liked Trek until the remade version, but those that have loved it all along deserved better than the half assed product Cryptic gave them. Full price for a MMO game made in under 2 yrs is a croc. Trek deserved a minimum of 4 yrs, and 75M or so invested.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I hope even more governments take a stand against these virtual lottery scams.
Any company that operates at this level shows contempt for its customers.