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SWTOR vs. SWG survey

ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

http://gemtrix.com/2012/05/star-wars-an-empire-divided-vs-star-wars-the-old-republic-a-gemtrix-survey/ 

 

They Shut this down on the official forums, so I thought I would bring it over here. I didn't put it up originally but thought it was interesting.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

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Comments

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Richmond, VAPosts: 527Member

    Interesting.  I will admit as buggy as SWG was I have yet to play a MMO since then that gave you so much freedom to do anything you almost wanted to do.

  • mmcguire2mmcguire2 Peterborough, ONPosts: 310Member

    SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

     

  • ZagavaVonnZagavaVonn Akron, OHPosts: 251Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmcguire2

    SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

     

    Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    As buggy and as broken as SWG was, its still a far better MMO than SWTOR can ever hope to be.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    TOR has pluses in it, if just due to it being more modern in the survey.

     

    I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts, when you have a IP, and they have ultimate control and final say, it can be like a football team with a owner that thinks he should be the GM/Coach.  This plagued SWG, and to be honest, I would not be suprised if it doesn't hit (may have already to an extent) TOR.

    SWG should of focused on fixing things, adding more SWG style content, fix battlefields and such that were not working, and some balance work (inculding toning buffs down some).  If SWG failed, and they did all this, then there ya go, but they turned away from what it was supposed to be somewhat and alienated people.

     

    TOR - We will see how LA handles the population problems now, and see if they force a type of NGE on it?

     

    I played both, but to be honest, I am more of a D&D fantasy type player.....I think anytime you make major changes to your game, you risk having it blow up on you....Unfortunatley, someone usually does it to every MMO...

    EQ - You had the LDoN type content, that eventually became what could be termed WoW-lite, due to WoW taking the direction and putting it on steriods...  I prefered the more open and non-instanced play...Even though, I can deal with it...Just became too much.

    UO - The current game is too far from its roots, imo.  I dislike the current skill combo systems, and changes, and the crafting/equipment stuff is too far from it's roots...If they ever brought out a official classic type server I wold be there (and no, I am not a 'griefer', I was more explorer/crafter).

     

    I guess what some call even more content, I call screwing up the current content, it is a fine line...

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by aktalat
    Originally posted by mmcguire2

    SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

     

    Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

     

    Well, if you look at who designed much of SWG, it was littered with UO people, thats why I brought up design change in my post...Game was changed from what it was meant to be, when it just needed fixes and more content styled to what it was supposed to be.  I think LA had a lot to do with this not happening, I had never seen a company change a MMO so drastically before on their own.

     

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71

    Interesting.  I will admit as buggy as SWG was I have yet to play a MMO since then that gave you so much freedom to do anything you almost wanted to do.

    I am still at a loss for how people say SWg gave you freedom to do so much.  You could either craft or kill things well and of course decorate but I have yet to play an mmo that I felt was more or less restrictive than SWG people speak as if you could enter the game world and immediately start to hunt rancors or something.

    SWG was as gated as any mmmorpg out there given that you had to grind for those first six to eight months to reach your advanced class which was when you really gained the freedom to go out and explore most of what the world had to offer which wasn't much.

    Where SWG was beyond reproach was in the overwhelmingly strong community, at that point most people were in maybe the third or fourth mmo they played and lot's of us it was the first I've had better cars than the first clunker I drove but I tend to remember those experiences in reference to the vehicle much fonder than later experiences and this is exactly how I see SWG.

    For me I've had just as great community experiences in games from COH,LOTRO and yes even TOR the biggest difference was in those games I often had to push myself a little more to engage in those activities because there was genuinely so much more to do that you didn't need to depend on others to entertain you and in SWG that was all there was it was a huge empty world with some really decent systems but none self sustaining it always required others.  Which on one hand is not a bad design philosophy but ultimately it's one that can't be sustained in a field that depends so much on numbers like number of subscribers etc.

    It wasn't a bad game but there is no way you'll get me to say I'd ever trade in my porsche for the old dodge neon.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    SWG had limitless potential. If the dev team that it ended with had been there in the beginning the industry would be full of SWG clones and sandboxes instead of borparks.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    I would take SWG with SWTORs worlds and story.

    Both games have/had deep flaws that could be fixed with a blending of the two games.

    SWTORs story, space combat and detailed world design.

    SWGs, open worlds, crafting, RP items/aspects/guild event creation.

    Leave out the vast empty void that was the depth of both games, and the cheap programming shortcuts SWG took with no 3D X/Y axis that allowed shooting through the ground/walls, no jumping, mounts that were supposed to be several feet above the ground yet stopped on a pebble...the random generated planet design...and the generic space flight sim.

    That would be a damn good MMO...but too many fans only care about what "they" like personally instead of fighting for an MMO that has aspects for all types of players...better to have a game with small population I guess.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by aktalat
    Originally posted by mmcguire2

    SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...

     

    Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.

    Out of curiosity what exactly are you considering "content" as stated in my earlier post I saw SWG with about four or five really good "systems" (rulesets governing certain aspects of gameplay) but content?

    I recall a few caves you could walk into and fight tos of monsters to reach the back of a cave where there was someone waiting for you and more often than not whatever the person was supposed to initiate was bugged and if you didn't know how to find out about the bugs you often didn't know that the encounter was broken.

    I remember some quasi quest line involving the heroes from the original trilogy and recall that being extremely anti climactic as well.

    Great community game extremely content light in my opinion it was basically Star Wars "the sims".

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    Originally posted by aktalat Originally posted by mmcguire2 SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...  
    Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.
    Out of curiosity what exactly are you considering "content" as stated in my earlier post I saw SWG with about four or five really good "systems" (rulesets governing certain aspects of gameplay) but content?

    I recall a few caves you could walk into and fight tos of monsters to reach the back of a cave where there was someone waiting for you and more often than not whatever the person was supposed to initiate was bugged and if you didn't know how to find out about the bugs you often didn't know that the encounter was broken.

    I remember some quasi quest line involving the heroes from the original trilogy and recall that being extremely anti climactic as well.

    Great community game extremely content light in my opinion it was basically Star Wars "the sims".


    I feel that player made content is still content. Doesnt have to be a dungeon made by developers to be considered legitimate content. SWG allowed players to make their own stories and content especially when the storyteller system was implemented. Player made content > developer made content every time.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    TOR has pluses in it, if just due to it being more modern in the survey.

     

    I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts, when you have a IP, and they have ultimate control and final say, it can be like a football team with a owner that thinks he should be the GM/Coach

    (*cough* Dallas cowboys)  .

     

      This plagued SWG, and to be honest, I would not be suprised if it doesn't hit (may have already to an extent) TOR.

    SWG should of focused on fixing things, adding more SWG style content, fix battlefields and such that were not working, and some balance work (inculding toning buffs down some).  If SWG failed, and they did all this, then there ya go, but they turned away from what it was supposed to be somewhat and alienated people.

     

    TOR - We will see how LA handles the population problems now, and see if they force a type of NGE on it?

     

    I played both, but to be honest, I am more of a D&D fantasy type player.....I think anytime you make major changes to your game, you risk having it blow up on you....Unfortunatley, someone usually does it to every MMO...

    EQ - You had the LDoN type content, that eventually became what could be termed WoW-lite, due to WoW taking the direction and putting it on steriods...  I prefered the more open and non-instanced play...Even though, I can deal with it...Just became too much.

    UO - The current game is too far from its roots, imo.  I dislike the current skill combo systems, and changes, and the crafting/equipment stuff is too far from it's roots...If they ever brought out a official classic type server I wold be there (and no, I am not a 'griefer', I was more explorer/crafter).

     

    I guess what some call even more content, I call screwing up the current content, it is a fine line...

     

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

     


    Originally posted by raistlinm

    Originally posted by aktalat

    Originally posted by mmcguire2 SWG is the best MMO to date... pre-CU and NEG...  
    Same for me, even with all it's problems SWG was the one game I kept going back to over and over. Outside of Ultima Online nothing really engrossed me as much, and it's one of the few games I've ever played where I actually stayed in touch with some of the people, it's like the in-game relationships were more than just hack-and-slash. It's sad the way it went, there was so much variety and content in the game, compared to SWTOR. It's like SWTOR was this great leap backwards in game design or something.
    Out of curiosity what exactly are you considering "content" as stated in my earlier post I saw SWG with about four or five really good "systems" (rulesets governing certain aspects of gameplay) but content?

     

    I recall a few caves you could walk into and fight tos of monsters to reach the back of a cave where there was someone waiting for you and more often than not whatever the person was supposed to initiate was bugged and if you didn't know how to find out about the bugs you often didn't know that the encounter was broken.

    I remember some quasi quest line involving the heroes from the original trilogy and recall that being extremely anti climactic as well.

    Great community game extremely content light in my opinion it was basically Star Wars "the sims".

     


     

    I feel that player made content is still content. Doesnt have to be a dungeon made by developers to be considered legitimate content. SWG allowed players to make their own stories and content especially when the storyteller system was implemented. Player made content > developer made content every time.

    As in getting together a bunch of friends and deciding to pseudo pen and paper only in the game world?  If so then every game has limitless content it's just that again many games with active quests etc. the players aren't  doing that because there is no need to and I can't blame the devs for not forcing the playerbase into certain roles and as far as the user generated content that came waaaay down the line much closer to the end of this game than the start and it certainly wasn't in pre cu or nge which seems to be what the person I was asking is basing his experiences on.

  • mcburlymcburly la mesa, CAPosts: 234Member

    Swtor>swg

     

    by a long shot.

    image

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    Precu SWG was a much more compelling game.  Does anyone here think that 9 years later people will still be speaking fondly of SWTOR?  Not a chance. 

     

    Precu SWG was a much deeper game that offered many layers of play.  SWTOR is a straight line, point a to point b.  Very boring, very forgettable. It is little more than a co op game if you are completely honest with yourself.  There are many games outside of the mmo genre that offer more player interaction, whereas Precu SWG had noninstanced housing, cities, world pvp the the tef system, and an open world without all the instancing. 

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    SWG was far more immersive and complete as an MMORPG but it had more bugs and worse gfx and PvE compared to SW:TOR. If the budget spent on SW:TOR was spent on an SWG sequel (meaning based on the direction SWG had pre-CU) it would probably have been the best MMORPG ever made.

  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon

    Haha, I was wondering when this thread would pop up. SWG is a way better mmo in my opinion and in fact was actually an mmo where SWTOR is not so much an mmo but a single player game with a subscription and with multiplayer capability. But what I cant help imagining is what could have been if SWG got the funding SWTOR received for development instead. I can only dream...

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by raistlinm
    As in getting together a bunch of friends and deciding to pseudo pen and paper only in the game world?  If so then every game has limitless content it's just that again many games with active quests etc. the players aren't  doing that because there is no need to and I can't blame the devs for not forcing the playerbase into certain roles and as far as the user generated content that came waaaay down the line much closer to the end of this game than the start and it certainly wasn't in pre cu or nge which seems to be what the person I was asking is basing his experiences on.

    Nope that wasnt what I was talking about. I was talking about players creating quest chains with boss fights and loot drops, player bounties, and player made city strongholds that could be attacked and defended. Real content, driven by players.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    i played swg for 2 years and i played swtor for 4 weeks.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common
    Originally posted by Terranah

     Does anyone here think that 9 years later people will still be speaking fondly of SWTOR?

    SWTOR wont even have an Emulator. No one cares about the game that much

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • BardusBardus Cornet, ALPosts: 460Member

    For me SWG was far more about community than gameplay mechanics. SOE and LA tried to kill the game everyway possible but they could not kill its most fundamental feature.

     

    I felt obligated to play, I had responsibilities and people depending on me. I knew if I didn't play those people will be disappointed and I didn't want that. We all (that played) made real life friends and we all depended on each other to advance. When someone left the game it also left a void that was hard to fill but we always found someone willing.

     

    I think SWG was the most fall back to game ever. Many have played it and most of them didn't play it from start to end but year after year and all through the year I will see people coming back to the game for a month or two or even longer and they always said they came back because they were missing the game and everyone in it.

    Now it's closed and the community disbanded by powers out of the community's control. Thousands of voices suddenly silenced in the name of greed. There certainly are no replacements and that is just as much a shame.

    RIP SWG

    [mod dit]

    God's speed if anyone else can have it's initial vision.

    image

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster

    I think the biggest problem for SoE was Lucas Arts

    That is  false.

    Raph Koster was SWGs problem.

    LA had nothing to do with worlds that were randomly generated...or no 3D X/Y axis that allowed shooting through the ground/walls/no jumping/ hovering mounts that stopped on a pebble. LA had nothing to do with randomly placed waypoints that spawned in homes not only blocking entry but also preventing completion of the quest...LA, had nothing to do with the poor database handling in the game causing them to have daily downtime...nor did LA have anything to do with the 100% sandbox portion of the game.

    The changes that came to SWG later came from Sony thinking rightly that the game would have far far far FAR more players if they closed some of the glaring gaps in it...and yes, they destroyed the game in the process, it just wasnt possible to do because of the core of the game design.

    As bad as SWTOR is, it was designed in a way that would allow virtually any kind of expansion to it...since its just a bunch of instances leading to instances. You can add an open world planet to it, or a very large open instance to the current worlds, crafting can be vastly expanded easily just by adding items and resources. The glaring lack of RPing items can take care of both the crafting and the RPing aspects missing. A player created design function can be added easily as well since the game is instanced. music playing, dancing, pazzac playing, mounted player v player races...all can be added easily.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    SWG was far more immersive and complete as an MMORPG but it had more bugs and worse gfx and PvE compared to SW:TOR. If the budget spent on SW:TOR was spent on an SWG sequel (meaning based on the direction SWG had pre-CU) it would probably have been the best MMORPG ever made.

    Maybe SWG had more bugs, but I never had a bug in SWG that stymied my further advancement and enjoyment of the game.  In SWTOR my light side points bugged and I could no longer accrue light side points, which effectively stopped my further advancement.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    SWTOR wont even have an Emulator. No one cares about the game that much

    Actually it wont have an Emulator because the game will be free to play long before it dies, something Sony wasnt even smart enough to do with SWG.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member
    Originally posted by Bardus

    For me SWG was far more about community than gameplay mechanics. SOE and LA tried to kill the game everyway possible but they could not kill its most fundamental feature.

     

    I felt obligated to play, I had responsibilities and people depending on me. I knew if I didn't play those people will be disappointed and I didn't want that. We all (that played) made real life friends and we all depended on each other to advance. When someone left the game it also left a void that was hard to fill but we always found someone willing.

     

    I think SWG was the most fall back to game ever. Many have played it and most of them didn't play it from start to end but year after year and all through the year I will see people coming back to the game for a month or two or even longer and they always said they came back because they were missing the game and everyone in it.

    Now it's closed and the community disbanded by powers out of the community's control. Thousands of voices suddenly silenced in the name of greed. There certainly are no replacements and that is just as much a shame.

    RIP SWG

    Long live the EMU (I hope)

    God's speed if anyone else can have it's initial vision.

    When is mmorpg.com going to add a 'like' button to posts?  A lot of posts in this thread I would love to 'like'.

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