Is this really what you want?

ArChWind · May 2012

Title:

MOVW – Massively Online Virtual World.

Post apoplectic world with medieval theme.

Archwind (Old name Kingdoms of when) – You heard it before? I talk about it many times here and elsewhere.

Features:

Immense world – 60 Km x Km. 51.2 14 cities, 100+ dungeons.

I have 100% of the landmass completed in under 70 hours of work. I am 21 days from having the world texturing to edit point. It is 100% computer generated.

Open world PvP with optional PvE only. Play how you want.

Three distinct factions with two sub factions.

Cross faction alliances.

Border conflicts for resource control and land control.

Multipath quest system with multiple outcomes that effect how the world perceives you. - The writer is standing by waiting for payment. The novel is a multi-path novel where you choose the outcome and the outcome is not ending but the beginning. The quest system is based on the lore of the novel and therefore has no direct path. You will have to buy the novel to get the DvDs to play because it is a packaged deal.

In-depth crafting system where all drops in the world are useable.

Collections, trophies and player housing.

No instances.

No classes

Five levels of game play skills. No monster levels or player levels just skill levels.

Status in the world means something so you can become famous or infamous. It cost gold and status to go to war and the winner get the oppositions gold and world status.

Current state:

Discontinued for the following reasons:

I hear it so many times here and elsewhere by the vast majority. ‘It is a indie game and therefore considered sub par’

No investor is interested in such a thing. Everyone says this multimillion dollar investment will crash and burn. --

Big television network advertised here in 2008 looking for someone to build them a MMORPG. At that time I answered the call because I was in the ballpark with the design related to their theme. They wanted me to build the game and spend my own money at which they would HYPE it. The negations broke off after I refused to do it without a contract and upfront investment. Someone I know said he could get 5 million but that deal was not to be because his investors don’t want to risk it after the newer AAA titles busted.

Future speculation:

My team stands ready (maybe for a few more months) but they don’t work unless they get paid. No investor equal no work. I got a email from Hero Engine that they are releasing a commercial subscription with all the bells and whistles so on June 1 I am switching engines to Hero Engine because I can get a full blown MMO engine without having to invest millions and fewer limitations on the tool set.

This goes to the recycle bin.

Seriously

ArChWind · May 2012

WTH? This was to be a reply to another post.

Cephus404 · May 2012

After reading that, I can honestly say that pretty much nothing in there is anything that I'd have any interest in whatsoever.

Post-apoc world? No.

PVP? No.

xDayx · May 2012

I would be interested in it just off that write-up as my favorite games are Mortal Online, Darkfall, and interested in playing Embers of Caerus if it releases.

A couple things that sounded a little off to me though or wasnt covered:

-Quests, I despise them.

-PVE-Optional? Why wouldn't a hungry bear aggro you?

-Crafting and resource gathering not mentioned. Would need a detailed crafting and resource system.

-No player construction?

Kalfer · May 2012

Real time combat?

tight controls like an FPS?

minimalistic but attractive UI?

aesperus · May 2012

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

Calerxes · May 2012

Originally posted by aesperus
First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

Very good advice Aesperus, the main problem with Indie MMO developers is they bite of more than they can chew. Start small and work your way up to big. Try building a Mud and see how that goes you'll be surprised how many muds are still played today, so there is a market. They are easier to build and you'll learn about mechanics and gameplay over models and graphics basically you'll learn how to make a game interesting. Because as all old gamers know GAMEPLAY IS KING.

http://www.mudconnect.com/

ArChWind · May 2012

Originally posted by aesperus
First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

We been working on this since 2004 off and on with a multitude of engine issues and financial issues. I actually quit working on it for almost a year when out of the blue I got this offer last September to make it and set out to round up the team again. Well, the thing fell flat so I was going to shit can it but this new Hero deal makes it sweet again.

As for your friend making a world this size in an evening I can tell you his did not have near the detail because this is 64 - 8K chunks of terrain and the initial 1/8 scale model I use to make these 64 chunks took 27 hours to generate. This world size is equal to Eve Online. At full sprint it takes 3 hours to cross it, 4 hours to run across it and 17 hours to walk it.

I am working on a much smaller scale now but the rest of the game description is real.

This was just to show that there are engines capable of doing massive sized worlds

If you read a few other posts recently about large worlds, you would understand what I was relating.

Loktofeit · May 2012

Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by aesperus

First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

Very good advice Aesperus, the main problem with Indie MMO developers is they bite of more than they can chew. Start small and work your way up to big. Try building a Mud and see how that goes you'll be surprised how many muds are still played today, so there is a market. They are easier to build and you'll learn about mechanics and gameplay over models and graphics basically you'll learn how to make a game interesting. Because as all old gamers know GAMEPLAY IS KING.

http://www.mudconnect.com/

Excellent stuff from both of the above.

Arch, get a bit more meat into it and then revisit the investor idea. Currently what you have so far isn't enough to show there's any game present. Create 15 minutes of engaging content. You can do it in Gamemaker, RealmCrafter... anything actually. With a reasonable proff of concept or tech demo you'd have a better chance at getting backing. As for Kickstarter, don't bother with it until you're in alpha and, even then, with no industry names or previous titles for a core group to rally behind, you'd be hard pressed to meet any realistic funding goals.

Keep hammering away at it. Once you have something that can be shown off in a 10-15 minute demo, start aggressively looking for backers.

JayFiveAlive · May 2012

Originally posted by ArChWind

My team stands ready (maybe for a few more months) but they don’t work unless they get paid. No investor equal no work. I got a email from Hero Engine that they are releasing a commercial subscription with all the bells and whistles so on June 1 I am switching engines to Hero Engine because I can get a full blown MMO engine without having to invest millions and fewer limitations on the tool set.

This goes to the recycle bin.

Seriously

Have you heard of this new site called Kickstarter? http://www.kickstarter.com/

It's meant for folks like yourself. Good luck!

ArChWind · May 2012

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by aesperus
First of all, kudos for attempting to make your own MMO. I really do hope it works out for you.

Some things I noticed, which may be contributing factors towards your financing problems.

1) Atm most of what you have are idealistic promises. They sound nice, but as an indie developer it's really hard to get backing on promises alone. You either need contacts that trust you (usually based off your past achievements) or you need to show that you know what you're doing. Without either of those, it's nearly impossible to get enough funding. You could try something like kickstarter, though.

2) The generated terrain you have looks nice, but that is such a small part of the game. My old roommate did the same thing in college basically overnight. The problem comes in populating it. I.E. you have a demo of one of the towns you are adding into the game, and the FPS takes a nose-dive with hardly anything in the town.

This will get better once optimised, but you'll also (theoretically) have waay more stuff into your world to make it interesting.

- As an indie gamer, I would focus on trying to make a game that's less content-dependant, but has really strong gameplay. It'll be cheaper, faster, and you'll have a much better chance of seeing your project launch. Else, you could go the other route, and do all the content yourself, but use very old graphics (i.e. Minecraft). One of the reasons I actually like indie games, is because their limited budgets actually force good developers to focus on gameplay, rather than fluff. I'd suggest doing the same, and hopefully down the road, if your project gains popularity, you can make the game you wanted to make, with all the bells & whistles.

Very good advice Aesperus, the main problem with Indie MMO developers is they bite of more than they can chew. Start small and work your way up to big. Try building a Mud and see how that goes you'll be surprised how many muds are still played today, so there is a market. They are easier to build and you'll learn about mechanics and gameplay over models and graphics basically you'll learn how to make a game interesting. Because as all old gamers know GAMEPLAY IS KING.

http://www.mudconnect.com/

Excellent stuff from both of the above.

Arch, get a bit more meat into it and then revisit the investor idea. Currently what you have so far isn't enough to show there's any game present. Create 15 minutes of engaging content. You can do it in Gamemaker, RealmCrafter... anything actually. With a reasonable proff of concept or tech demo you'd have a better chance at getting backing. As for Kickstarter, don't bother with it until you're in alpha and, even then, with no industry names or previous titles for a core group to rally behind, you'd be hard pressed to meet any realistic funding goals.

Keep hammering away at it. Once you have something that can be shown off in a 10-15 minute demo, start aggressively looking for backers.

I will keep working at it Loktofiet and yeah we revist the investors in maybe 5 to 6 months. With HE I think I can rebuild the team and possibly make it work this time around. Not making promisses though.

Miss the old board BTW.

ArChWind · May 2012

Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
Originally posted by ArChWind

My team stands ready (maybe for a few more months) but they don’t work unless they get paid. No investor equal no work. I got a email from Hero Engine that they are releasing a commercial subscription with all the bells and whistles so on June 1 I am switching engines to Hero Engine because I can get a full blown MMO engine without having to invest millions and fewer limitations on the tool set.

This goes to the recycle bin.

Seriously

Have you heard of this new site called Kickstarter? http://www.kickstarter.com/

It's meant for folks like yourself. Good luck!

No I did not know about this link. I need to regroup first now and see where it goes.

Thank you.

aesperus · May 2012

Originally posted by ArChWind

We been working on this since 2004 off and on with a multitude of engine issues and financial issues. I actually quit working on it for almost a year when out of the blue I got this offer last September to make it and set out to round up the team again. Well, the thing fell flat so I was going to shit can it but this new Hero deal makes it sweet again.

As for your friend making a world this size in an evening I can tell you his did not have near the detail because this is 64 - 8K chunks of terrain and the initial 1/8 scale model I use to make these 64 chunks took 27 hours to generate. This world size is equal to Eve Online. At full sprint it takes 3 hours to cross it, 4 hours to run across it and 17 hours to walk it.

I am working on a much smaller scale now but the rest of the game description is real.

This was just to show that there are engines capable of doing massive sized worlds

If you read a few other posts recently about large worlds, you would understand what I was relating.

Wow, sounds like quite a long haul.

I didn't mean to imply that my friend did what you did in a night. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that having terrain laid out doesn't take that long, and I know some people focus on it, but if budget is an issue (and it sounds like it is), it's something that can be done quickly, and procedurally. His was actually larger, but it was algorythmically generated. It was definitely less detailed up close, especially compared to the areas you built w/ custom grass, tree, & building layouts. I know that's not ideal for a game, especially if you have a specific vision inmind, but it is a route one can take.

The point I was trying to make was more, when you're constrained on game assets, in a genre that is very demanding of assests, it's generally better to shift the focus a bit. Minecraft is a good example of this. The game looks terrible, it's ugly, and there's not a ton of detail there. However, it's an extremely well designed game, and people love it. Pick a focus, screw the graphics, just make it playable and fun. Focus on the gameplay / game design. You'll have a good game, and if it's executed well, people won't care that the graphics aren't good. Some may even like that about it.

Zylaxx · May 2012

I can safely say that people are not looking for "yet" another FFA PvP system.

When are you guys going to get it through your thick skulls that MMO players are looking for a virtual world with open ended gameplay, huge land masses to explore, detailed crafting, including player built and ran cities and a return of the genre to the pre WoW era. Theres been a ton of FFA Sandboxes, give us a Skyrim type virtual world with thousands of hidden questing based on an explorable-non-hand-holding theme.

Post Apocalytpic is my favorite reading material but High Fantasy will always be my gaming medium of choice.

Unkillable · May 2012

honestly i cant see how there are so many negative posts about the game and ideas.

i play mmos for pvp and for pvp only. this mans idea and game (in my eyes) would grab a whole crop of pvpers and hardcore gamers and probally keep them interested.

im am not attacking anyone in this thread at all, but a lot of the people that responded to this post seem to not be this guys target demographic. and thats unfortunate, because this idea and set of rules has NEVER BEEN DONE RIGHT EVER...YET.(PERIOD)

i just started playing daoc a month back (never touched it in its hayday) and its fun and neat and all, but its to old and takes to much previous knowledge. you wont find help on any daoc board for complicated things youll need, like (how to gear out your char properly) because the community seems to tell people to "re-roll" instead of giving them class advice.

this idea and game have EXTREME potential, to a very real demographic of PvPers that are SICK OF BULLSHIT GAMES. i know i am, ive bought and or beta tested EVERY new mmo about to come out or out already and i have to say, games and my love for them are dwindling fast (if i cant find a good one soon). and im not some old guy either, im 26, and games have been my entertainment focus since a young kid.

my final point is this,

-the demographic is there

-people will want to play this

-this game should get funded no problem in my eyes

-PvPers DONT HAVE A GAME RIGHT NOW

-his feature list is not a dream list, its a real feature list, WITH PROMISE!

-I need to see this game through

thanks for reading whoever has, and to the OP, i sent you a PM, please take a look at it!

Loktofeit · May 2012

Originally posted by Unkillable

-the demographic is there

-people will want to play this

-this game should get funded no problem in my eyes

-PvPers DONT HAVE A GAME RIGHT NOW

-his feature list is not a dream list, its a real feature list, WITH PROMISE!

Thank you for writing this as your first post. I wish all posters would indicate right off the bat their level of expertise and understanding regarding the fields they choose to discuss so all future posts can be read in the proper context. Kudos to you, sir!

Volkon · May 2012

The whole "compete against others" in the PvE world has, to me, grown old and tired. All you do is breed a system of griefing, pre-teen ego trips and temepr tantrums. Good luck, but not for me.

I much prefer PvP when I want it, not when some other person thinks it'll be fun to screw with my playtime. Balanced PvP at that... none of that "my gear is so much better therefore you have no chance" crap that passes as gameplay in the lesser MMOs of today.

nariusseldon · May 2012

No. This is not what i want.

Disdena · May 2012

Originally posted by aesperus

Wow, sounds like quite a long haul.

I didn't mean to imply that my friend did what you did in a night. I didn't mean that at all. I just meant that having terrain laid out doesn't take that long, and I know some people focus on it, but if budget is an issue (and it sounds like it is), it's something that can be done quickly, and procedurally. His was actually larger, but it was algorythmically generated. It was definitely less detailed up close, especially compared to the areas you built w/ custom grass, tree, & building layouts. I know that's not ideal for a game, especially if you have a specific vision inmind, but it is a route one can take.

You're absolutely right, though. If the end result is no more detailed than one day's work on a world generated by an algorithm, then it was mostly a waste of time.

All of these designers who are trying to build a needlessly gigantic MMO world are all missing the same vital concept. If you have nothing to fill your world with, running across all that empty space is just a boring waste of time. And I'm NOT saying that as some advocate of fast travel. The point of having a big world is that there are a lot of places to go, not that they are so far apart.

It may be an unfair comparison—because this is a AAA single-player title and not an indie MMO—but take a look at this screenshot from Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It conveys such a strong mood, and gives so much information about the world and its current events. The game world doesn't need to be enormous because it is detailed. In fact, if you were to take that same amount of information and detail but just spread it out over a larger space within the game, it would have less of an impact. Same goes for taking the same number of NPCs and same number of missions and spreading them farther apart over a larger space.

Along the same lines, if you were to take the world from an existing, successful MMO and stretch it out to cover 3000 sq km, you'd just end up with a horrible, empty world. And that's if we're generous enough to assume that you have as much detail and content as a successful MMO, which is insanely optimistic.

TheLizardbones · May 2012

Originally posted by Cephus404
After reading that, I can honestly say that pretty much nothing in there is anything that I'd have any interest in whatsoever.Post-apoc world? No.PVP? No.

Apoplectic - Overcome with anger; extremely indignant.
Post-Apoplectic - The state of being after becoming apoplectic.

Nevulus · May 2012

Its only a system of griefing if it is done incorrectly. There are ways to fix this: jail system, penalty system, bounty system, the list goes on and on and on. The problem is most of the past developers never bothered because either 1) they didn't know how 2) didnt have the proper foresight 3) purposely wanted to attract a griefing crowd.

STOP saying that "all mmos dont want this or that" last time I checked NONE of you were voted "MMO players representatives"

To the OP, I applaud you. I have setup server farms for MMOs before and I know exactly how difficult it is to get a MMO up & running, throw on top of that the actual programming, gfx engine, logic, ai, etc etc etc. It is a daunting & difficult task not for the weak of heart.

I am interested how do you handle your world resources? Quad trees, fancy culling? Big worlds cause big server issues.

Scottgun · May 2012

Two words: MOAR SANDBOX

Boreil · May 2012

Post apoc, not at all, pure mideval hell yea.

Unknown · May 2012

Yes! Yes I do. Er hold on I didn't read the OP ...

I didn't just agree to some sort of scam or indecent proposal did I?

ArChWind · May 2012

I will continue here even though the original post was suppose to be in this thread and since some have shown interest then I am not hijacking that thread. Don’t know why though but here it is. (long read)

It was discussed in depth on the now defunct mmorpgmaker forums and was polished up through a lot of good input from several people.

First off it took a lot of time to come up with a deterrent that I felt was appropriate to even use open world PvP since I am not very fond of games like MO or Darkfall to start with. I considered leaving PvP to war zones only also but want to try this system I designed at least through the first run and see how well it works. I also did not want the functionality like in Linage 2 where if you did gank someone you immediately went red because it was a means to grief people in L2. I Wanted the game to attract a crowd of mature people who would still have freedom to role play and not have to suffer excessive griefing (look out here comes the flames). I don’t want people just openly ganking each other so I put to together a system of factions where if you do attack and kill your own faction players you loose a faction point. It takes 2^n times as many opposition faction kills to clear the slate. Faction are related to NPCs as well as players so if you do quests in your faction you clear 1 point each kill and status cleared more points (10 status is one faction point if your indebt).

To show you how it works let’s call faction 1 left wing government and faction 2 right wing government.

If you were in the left wing, have a full faction bar and attacked a player in the left wing and kill the player you would loose 1 faction in the left wing. If you then wanted to clear the slate it would take 2^1 = 2 kills in the right wing to clear it. At 10 points you switch form the left wing to right wing and become red to the faction NPCs and players of the left wing. With 9 points you had to kill 2^9 = 512. In other words a few kills of role play is no problem but once it reached a certain point it becomes real difficult to stay in the left wing and those points are not in this meter so it carried over on the faction switch. So now you have to kill the same players but they see you as hostile (free to kill you) and yes, if you now kill 1 in your own faction it gets worse! 2^10, 2^11 so on. Betrayal carries a heavy price and to satisfy gaining status in the world you have to have a clean slate. Status in the world means you get perks in that faction. Since you switched faction by betrayal you loose your perks.

Simple rule lots of freedom but a consequence of choice.

The entire game is built around this faction system including groups, guilds and alliances. Bad players can switch the groups, guilds or alliance faction and betray them but it takes the mean sum of the entire guilds or alliance factions to do so.

PvE players were neutral had their own faction bar and not as stringent (125 points and no 2^n penalty) but once this faction switched from Neutral to one of the wings, it could never be switched back to neutral(PvE only). You were flagged open world PvP by choice. PvE players could not attack anyone outside a war zone so if they intended to play PvE they best stay out of war zones or be mercerizes for both sides.

Now the other two factions I mentioned are the extremes of the left wing and right wing. You have to maintain 6 points in your faction to access them. These are sanctuaries and they give the highest status in the world with the best perks. Neutral players don’t have a sanctuary. Neutral players can not enter these sanctuaries and are red to NPCs

So I have a color code of green (not attackable in the open world), blue (attackable but in same group, faction or alliance), red (enemy). Neutral are red to everyone outside their group, guild or alliance in a war zone. They give faction to both wings. Consequences of a neutral being in war zone.

Hey, if any developer wants to do this go for it.

I was all for BigWorlds but the indie package is just not going to cut it anyway. I really wanted to go with it but the cost for the database cluster(10 blades) and space cluster(32 blades) was well (40K x 42) + 80K for the world controller kind of puts it out of range (roughly 1,760,000 bucks). I could just go with one server and a small chunk of land but one big question would be, will it work once it expands? It may work well with one or two machines and really have major problems once it passes the threshold of a certain number of connections and needs to go enterprise. It needs to be built as it stands so it is know to work and not band aided to work.

Then there is the bigger problem, the indie release does not have the database capability to even start using complex things like my faction system. I had to make a choice that HE would be better because it has Oracle already installed. I can work from day one on the code and not keep screwing around getting a database to interface player data and XML data persistence. I still haven’t got that to work well without a bunch of lag between accesses. Not acceptable as it is right now.

As for the main issues you mentioned with BW, I ran many tests with the world packed with foliage and trees without a real bad frame rate because I billboard all the tree models past 50 meters, kept the model switches to a smooth transition (no massive switch from one group to another but slowly changing the scene). The walls of the cities were use for culling inside and out because they were much taller than the inner building and trees. If you look at the terrain you see many hills and valleys where view distance is limited to under 1500 meters. The video you saw was actually made to debunk these ‘massive world I want to make a MMO’ threads you see. The world itself is just to GD big to be even useable. It still looks epic though because of the massive size.

The post was intended to demonstrate what can be done and why it is not done.

As for the comments about post aplo.

What you don’t understand is this world was about 5000 years past a holocaust of nuclear war that almost destroyed the earth and wiped the earth of all its technology. Those that survived did not have a understanding and communications, some were not even human form anymore but evolved into intelligent creatures (the 5 other playable races besides humans). 100 years after this holocaust one human was born that had intelligence and explored the world. He discovered the complex that housed the great computers and learned the truth of the end time. He took this knowledge and taught the people of his time but died without revealing any technology, or the location of this complex that could be used to create another holocaust. He hid the keys to the complex and never reveled that he knew anything of it except one other.

As time passed beliefs between groups differed and a revolution ensued. The empire split into the three factions and as time passed these factions divided into their own factions.

The 5000 year redevelopment went though a transitions of no real intelligent life to relearning the technology and from the stone ages to the medieval times would have been about 4500 years. It IS the medieval times but with the aura left from the nuclear holocaust magic DOES exist. The age of swords and sorcery lives in this world.

The story is very deep and covers both sides of history from the period of this man, because he wrote the history and lived a very long time. Those that were on both sides wrote more history. It covers both sides of the wars that came in quest of power because he was betrayed and it was learned that the complex did exist.

The time frame for this world is 4956 PH (Post Holocaust)

Unkillable · May 2012

extremely well thought out and impressive to say the least.

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