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Debunking and defending D3 here (also POE,T2 vs Diablo3)

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Comments

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member

    T2's character moves on the screen the fastest. I prefer that in this genre.

  • RJCoxRJCox Beaumont, TXPosts: 2,686Member
    Originally posted by drakes821

    To hit on the game length topic I'd like to point out that it took me 19 hours and 7 minutes to beat the game on normal. I explored every map and all dungeons but still played pretty fast and kept moving.

    I also only died about 6 or so times. I'd say for the average person who doesn't just rush through the game it will take them 15-20 hours on normal solo.

    This is about on par with my own experience, as mentioned above. I can imagine people blazing through it in 10-12 hours on normal if they're just trying to get through it and don't care about the story or side/bonus dungeons/encounters...

    And still waiting for the OP go back and discuss being forced to play on Normal to unlock additional content, etc... ;)

    Richard J. Cox
    "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Don't forget there's grim dawn also
  • NeoZcar2NeoZcar2 Roanoke, TXPosts: 136Member

    So I am mostly a MMORPG fan. I played EQ for 11 years and WoW for 3, and basically every other AAA MMORPG that has been released... Currently I own Tera and GW2. But I have been playing Diablo 3 and PoE when I need a break form Tera.

     

    Gameplay I much prefer PoE. I find the world to me much more immersive and impressive. It definitly has that darker grittier feel to it, and none of the mobbs give me that cartooney feeling like DIablo3 and TL2 do. PoE mobbs and zones really make you feel like you are constantly in danger of being ripped apart by some evil demonic being straight from the pits of hell.

     

    Graphics I would say Diablo3 gets the gold here but they did not do a very good job with making the graphic power and the art design combine into a very aesthetically pleasing game... I will take TL2 or PoE over Diablo3 for this reason alone... Nothing in the world should feel like it doesn't belong. 

     

    Diablo3 definitely has the best storyline by far. The other games aren't even competitive.

    Classes is really hard to choose for me. I Prefer the PoE Templar overall, but I love DIablo3's Wizard and Monk. I prefer the new PoE class Shadow over the Diablo3 Demon-Hunter. Diablo3 Barbarian is better then PoE Marauder.

     

    Skill systems I have to give it to PoE over any other Hack and Slash ever made. I love the skill gem system combined with the massive customizable passive skill tree. Literally millions of possibilities.

     

    I guess overall none of them are bad games but I for sure feel that Diablo3 should have been a much better game then what we got.  Blizzard fell short of Diablo 3's true potential. I would however love to see a full MMORPG designed around the world and storylines of the Diablo universe.

    There is absolutely nothing I can complain about with PoE because I feel it is one of the best completely free games ever. Definitely the best bang for your buck LOL.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon

    The reason Blizzard is so successful is because they look at what game before in a genre and pick the good stuff while getting rid of the crap.  D3 has done a pretty good job of getting rid of things from D2 like:

     

    1) Hackalicious bnet 1.0 - Worst thing about D2

    2) No respecs - Second worst thing about D2.  D2 caused your character to often be gimped early on as you were waiting for say Blessed Hammer.  D3 allows you to swap between different builds each player sees as optimal depending on the situation and party makeup.  Once you are capped and have picked you spec, you're stuck with it.

    3) Potion spamming

    4) TP and ID scrolls

    5) Horrible stat system that often time left points unused in case an item dropped with stat requirements.  Also, if you got a better item with lower requirements, guess what you can't get them back.  Guess you need to reroll if you want a perfect build.

    6) First one to grab loot wins!

     

    Any modern ARPG that uses those features is bass ackwards and stuck in the past.  They haven't learned and are destined to just be a footnote to the genre going forward.  POE is guilty of being stuck in the past.  I haven't seen enough of TL2 to make a decision, but they are certainly stuck in the past in certain areas, most importantly not having dedicated servers to store multiplayer characters.

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RJCox
    Originally posted by drakes821

    To hit on the game length topic I'd like to point out that it took me 19 hours and 7 minutes to beat the game on normal. I explored every map and all dungeons but still played pretty fast and kept moving.

    I also only died about 6 or so times. I'd say for the average person who doesn't just rush through the game it will take them 15-20 hours on normal solo.

    This is about on par with my own experience, as mentioned above. I can imagine people blazing through it in 10-12 hours on normal if they're just trying to get through it and don't care about the story or side/bonus dungeons/encounters...

    And still waiting for the OP go back and discuss being forced to play on Normal to unlock additional content, etc... ;)

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5004932#5004932

    By the way...i know its just workaround. But you can just join friend on higher difficulty and it becomes unlocked for you :S

     

    image

  • kishekishe aitooPosts: 1,978Member Uncommon

    POE is powergamers paradise, so much mix/maxing to be had that any powergamer with his pocket calc will joygasm over this game.

     

    Diablo3 is casuals paradise, the game does pretty much everything to you, leaving you to just enjoy the game and the story.

     

    Torchlight 2 is about faithful "unofficial" sequel to diablo2 (which makes sense as it's done by same team who made Diablo 1 and 2) it allows you to make mods which will most likely end up giving you more bang for your buck than the other 2.

     

     

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Southern IllinoisPosts: 1,080Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by Ailingforale

    Given the screenshots posted, wouldn't it be more of a art style choice rather than a graphic one?  I know that D3 didn't go for a photo-realistic bit but they were dancing on the precipise.  Granted not as close as Path of Exile.  

    However, my question is:

    Which game has the flashier moves?  You know, that extra explosion in the fire ball or w/e?  My eye tend to be more entertained by moving objects at times lol.

    Almost every monster in TF2 explodes in some way while most monsters(that i have seen) in Diablo III just fall down.

    That should tell you something.

    On the other hand though some skills in Diablo are insanely cool like the monk punches and the demon hunter skills.

    So i guess both cover those departments in good ways albeit different ones.

    This is just what I am talking about - lies and misconceptions.

    I am just going to mark it as : False / Debunked

    I'm going to comment on this.

    Having only played a Barb I can say that "explosions" and gibbing are very rampant. Also Enviromental Destruction is top notch. Shit flying everywhere like a tornado just struck. 

    Also if you can, play D3 in 3D (heh almost a palindrome). By far the best 3D game out today. It really amazing what Blizz had done with it. Makes Skyrim look like Minecraft. Play it in 3D and then tell us that monsters just fall down.

    EDIT: Played about 12 hours and still on Act 1. Not sure how much farther I have to go. Been searching every nook and cranny. With 3D enabled you actually WANT to see everything. The trees and ledges poping out and dropping down is gorgeous to behold!

    image

  • Yeah, you literally feel like a tornado of destruction when you whirlwind a group of monsters turned into explosions of gibs going everywhere. Your attacks just by themselves convey a feeling and sound of tremendous force being unleashed. I think this is one of the points where Diablo 3 really shines over TL2 and especially PoE where the animations just don't "feel" quite as good.

  • doragon86doragon86 Boston, MAPosts: 589Member
    Originally posted by austriacus
    Originally posted by Ailingforale

    Given the screenshots posted, wouldn't it be more of a art style choice rather than a graphic one?  I know that D3 didn't go for a photo-realistic bit but they were dancing on the precipise.  Granted not as close as Path of Exile.  

    However, my question is:

    Which game has the flashier moves?  You know, that extra explosion in the fire ball or w/e?  My eye tend to be more entertained by moving objects at times lol.

    Almost every monster in TF2 explodes in some way while most monsters(that i have seen) in Diablo III just fall down.

    That should tell you something.

    On the other hand though some skills in Diablo are insanely cool like the monk punches and the demon hunter skills.

    So i guess both cover those departments in good ways albeit different ones.

     

     

    There are plenty of mobs that explode in D3. On top of that there are various mobs that have cool death animations as well. Said mobs aren't as prevalent in early act 1, however, as you progress you start to encounter them more and more. 

     

    Anyways here's my assessment as I've played POE and Diablo 3, and beta tested T2.

     

    Path of Exile: The game feels pretty much like Diablo 2 with a few features here and there. Non-casual D2 fans will probably enjoy it. The large passive skill tree is interesting, as it reminded me of the sphere grid system in Final Fantasy X.  The game's graphics are a bit better than D2, which is fine considering it is a small company that develops it. The sound is fairly well done. The gameplay can get somewhat boring due to the way skills are tied to gems. Lastly, the story seemed mediocre to me. Overall, the game is ok in my opinion. 

     

    Torchlight 2: This game feels also felt like Diablo 2, but rather an improved version of it. A lot of things that had me griping in Diablo 2, Torchlight 2 fixed/improved upon. It's definitely quite an improvement over Torchlight 1. There is a sense of permanence after level 10. The graphics are cartoony, but that's perfectly fine to me. The sound is very well done. The gameplay is also quite fun as well; however I think some of the skills are rather useless. That may change later in the game for all I know. From what little of the story was revealed, it seemed rather interesting. Overall, the game is good in my opinion.

     

    Diablo 3: I greatly enjoy playing it. The graphics are quite good. The animations, the most part, are well done, which includes the death animations. The sound is fairly well done as well. The gameplay is very fun. I really enjoy the way they did the skills, because sometimes a particular encounter requires a change of skills and strategy. In a game where skills/stats are permanent, this can be troublesome as you work through higher difficulties. However, with D3 you don't have to worry about it. Anyways, I personally felt the story was mediocre. It could've been much better. Also itemization is rather terrible at the moment, which reminded me of how D2 was when it first came out. For example, there are quite a few magic items that have better DPS than a legendary one, which is rather odd. Anyways, overall I enjoy the game and I think it's good. 

    "For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
    ~Lord George Gordon Byron

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doragon86

    Excellent review ( and written in blizz blue .. hehe )

    Anyway spot on !

    image

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member

    I plan on buying Torchlight 2, and I will throw a few dollars to Grinding Gear Games (PoE), but D3 is the big star, and it shows. Each class feels different and powerful in D3. Wizard disintegrates enemies in large swaths, Barbarian smashes them into nonexistence whilst shrugging off damage, Monk deftly dodges blows while dishing out the hurt, Witch Doctor cripples and damages foes as his minions keep them at bay, and Demon Hunter cripples enemies whilst pelting them with death from afar. Also, there are a LOT of death animations per enemy, depending upon which skill/ability was used to dispatch them.

    Torchlight 2's classes just feel pretty generic. Not a single one really 'grabbed' me like D3's did. A sword and board Engineer was the only class I found kind of interesting. The various class skills in beta were incredibly lackluster (even compared to the first game), and didn't really feel potent. Even regular melee attacks with a staff using  Ember Mage caused enemies to 'gib', which really removes the significance of the effect. Rather disappointing overall. Diablo 2 had more variety in enemy deaths than this game. To be fair though, the scripted deaths are very well animated.

    PoE doesn't have much in the way of 'gibbing'. Enemies have a set death animation (AKA they just fall over), and I don't even know why they bothered with classes. The passive skill tree is the same regardless of which class you start with, the only major difference being appearance and how the addition of stats effects you. Marauders get more HP from VIT, Witches get more MP from INT, etc. Skills come from gems, which can be equipped on any character providing you meet the minimum stat requirements. This is...a really good system. the only downside is that you need to find/trade for the skill gem you may want, instead of simply 'getting' the skill upon level up. You want your witch to have fireball? Too bad, either find it first, complete a quest which grants it, or trade for it. It can get a bit tedious.

    PoE's biggest limitation is the class system. They'd have been better off just having people choose a gender, name, appearance, and possibly a starting skill gem(s). It could have been the Ultima Online of OARPGs, instead it tries to appeal to old school fans of ARPGs by keeping too many old school systems in place. It still has potential, but not as much as it could/should have.

    Just my own thoughts. All 3 are quality games worth cheking out, although D3's big budget wins the day IMO.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    The gameplay time being set short for the majority of plyers is bullshit. The game has an ample amount for the genre and a decent story considering.

    On the other hand, the people saying this skill system is something unique or involved are so full of shit is unreal. Not even close. Outside of some rune selection and choosing from your small selection of skills it is about as basic as you can get. Good or bad regardless their bs line that is how it plays out.

    In essence, this game is a cut above your usual hack and slash but nothing near what some make it out to be. It is a lot of fun but it is neither garbage or the panacea of the genre.

    Far as to compare to the other two, I haven't played enough to compare. Frankly though, I think the real winner in all this will be the person that can appreciate all three.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • RednecksithRednecksith Madison heights, MIPosts: 1,238Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    The gameplay time being set short for the majority of plyers is bullshit. The game has an ample amount for the genre and a decent story considering.

    On the other hand, the people saying this skill system is something unique or involved are so full of shit is unreal. Not even close. Outside of some rune selection and choosing from your small selection of skills it is about as basic as you can get. Good or bad regardless their bs line that is how it plays out.

    In essence, this game is a cut above your usual hack and slash but nothing near what some make it out to be. It is a lot of fun but it is neither garbage or the panacea of the genre.

    Far as to compare to the other two, I haven't played enough to compare. Frankly though, I think the real winner in all this will be the person that can appreciate all three.

    Someone hasn't discovered elective mode yet...

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Rednecksith

    Someone hasn't discovered elective mode yet...

    Someone has and stands by what he says. Good game but not nearly to the extent somehow profess it to be. Not by a long shot.

    Not to say it isn't a good one. Just...wow...the level some take it to is unreal.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,212Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Rednecksith

    Someone hasn't discovered elective mode yet...

    Someone has and stands by what he says. Good game but not nearly to the extent somehow profess it to be. Not by a long shot.

    Not to say it isn't a good one. Just...wow...the level some take it to is unreal.

     Agreed. It's a well designed workable system. It's not so head and shoulders above everything else it will be the standard everyone aspires to in the future. I expect to play Diablo 3 quite a bit. I'm not throwing all my other games in the trash and selling my television.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • RJCoxRJCox Beaumont, TXPosts: 2,686Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    Originally posted by RJCox
    Originally posted by drakes821

    To hit on the game length topic I'd like to point out that it took me 19 hours and 7 minutes to beat the game on normal. I explored every map and all dungeons but still played pretty fast and kept moving.

    I also only died about 6 or so times. I'd say for the average person who doesn't just rush through the game it will take them 15-20 hours on normal solo.

    This is about on par with my own experience, as mentioned above. I can imagine people blazing through it in 10-12 hours on normal if they're just trying to get through it and don't care about the story or side/bonus dungeons/encounters...

    And still waiting for the OP go back and discuss being forced to play on Normal to unlock additional content, etc... ;)

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5004932#5004932

    By the way...i know its just workaround. But you can just join friend on higher difficulty and it becomes unlocked for you :S

     

    Hmm... I think you missunderstood me. I don't mind playing a good game multiple times. I completely played through Borderlands (including all DLC on each one, except the arena crap) 8+ times. That's all fine and dandy. I also don't mind the harder modes being unlocked by playing through once. And I definitely feel there should be enough levels in the leveling system to take you through multiple playthroughs.

    My problem with D3 is once you get to Nightmare, it becomes pretty blatantly obvious that it should be considered "Normal". What they call normal is actually stripped down, content reduced easy mode. All the way through Normal I may have died 3-4 times total, and every single one of those I can chalk up to my own inattention or such. Distracted watching TV, went AFK to get a drink thinking the area was clear, etc. There was no challenge at all, and on top of that, they stripped out content. There are no drops above rare. The pages you need to continue leveling up the crafters (and actually craft items) are stripped out, etc.

    Don't restrict my access to content to 'force' me to play through the game multiple times. Just make a fun game and I'll do it all on my own.

    Also, from my experience, people on your friends list who haven't unlocked a difficulty setting themselves can't be invited. I've tried. Every person on my BNet friends list ingame who hasn't unlocked Nightmare is greyed out, preventing me from inviting them to my game.

    Richard J. Cox
    "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member

    All three games are good but imo D3 is vastly superior game when it comes to the actual gameplay.

    With these games it always boils down to combat and PoE feels slow and sluggish while Torchlight feels too fast and arcady with no real weight behind attacks. 

     

    Playing:

    Waiting on:

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    There is two important things to note - Blizzard designed Diablo3 as online game , solo is just an afterthought.

    Solo play being an "after thought" is your opinion with no source to back it up

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RJCox
     

    Hmm... I think you missunderstood me. I don't mind playing a good game multiple times. I completely played through Borderlands (including all DLC on each one, except the arena crap) 8+ times. That's all fine and dandy. I also don't mind the harder modes being unlocked by playing through once. And I definitely feel there should be enough levels in the leveling system to take you through multiple playthroughs.

    My problem with D3 is once you get to Nightmare, it becomes pretty blatantly obvious that it should be considered "Normal". What they call normal is actually stripped down, content reduced easy mode. All the way through Normal I may have died 3-4 times total, and every single one of those I can chalk up to my own inattention or such. Distracted watching TV, went AFK to get a drink thinking the area was clear, etc. There was no challenge at all, and on top of that, they stripped out content. There are no drops above rare. The pages you need to continue leveling up the crafters (and actually craft items) are stripped out, etc.

    Don't restrict my access to content to 'force' me to play through the game multiple times. Just make a fun game and I'll do it all on my own.

    Also, from my experience, people on your friends list who haven't unlocked a difficulty setting themselves can't be invited. I've tried. Every person on my BNet friends list ingame who hasn't unlocked Nightmare is greyed out, preventing me from inviting them to my game.

    Bad gameplay decision. As simple as that.

    This is one of major complaints I have with D3.

    And I simply can not see no benefit in it. Not for Blizzard nor Players.

     

    As for difficulty setting not matching expectations.

    Its a though cookie. I remember that Torchlight 1 had huge problem. Even the highest difficulty was just normal even for casual player. So they had to rebalance it in patches.

    image

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    There is two important things to note - Blizzard designed Diablo3 as online game , solo is just an afterthought.

    Solo play being an "after thought" is your opinion with no source to back it up

    Its my oppinion, yes.

    But Blizzard mentioned many many times that D3 is online game first and foremost.

    image

  • MikkelBMikkelB SteenwijkPosts: 240Member
    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    Originally posted by RJCox
     

    Hmm... I think you missunderstood me. I don't mind playing a good game multiple times. I completely played through Borderlands (including all DLC on each one, except the arena crap) 8+ times. That's all fine and dandy. I also don't mind the harder modes being unlocked by playing through once. And I definitely feel there should be enough levels in the leveling system to take you through multiple playthroughs.

    My problem with D3 is once you get to Nightmare, it becomes pretty blatantly obvious that it should be considered "Normal". What they call normal is actually stripped down, content reduced easy mode. All the way through Normal I may have died 3-4 times total, and every single one of those I can chalk up to my own inattention or such. Distracted watching TV, went AFK to get a drink thinking the area was clear, etc. There was no challenge at all, and on top of that, they stripped out content. There are no drops above rare. The pages you need to continue leveling up the crafters (and actually craft items) are stripped out, etc.

    Don't restrict my access to content to 'force' me to play through the game multiple times. Just make a fun game and I'll do it all on my own.

    Also, from my experience, people on your friends list who haven't unlocked a difficulty setting themselves can't be invited. I've tried. Every person on my BNet friends list ingame who hasn't unlocked Nightmare is greyed out, preventing me from inviting them to my game.

    Bad gameplay decision. As simple as that.

    This is one of major complaints I have with D3.

    And I simply can not see no benefit in it. Not for Blizzard nor Players.

     

    As for difficulty setting not matching expectations.

    Its a though cookie. I remember that Torchlight 1 had huge problem. Even the highest difficulty was just normal even for casual player. So they had to rebalance it in patches.

    I'm twofaced on this. On one hand Blizzard did the same as Square-Enix did with Final Fantasy XIII, namely letting the player play through what's essentially a tutorial for around 20-30 hours. At the end of normal, players are likely to be level 30 and at that point, have access to all their active skills and their three passive skillslots. Players also had enough time to practice and play with different setups, while not instantly being punished for it. Lastly, it enables players to enjoy the story, without being frustrated by impossible gameplay.

    That said, normal mode for felt pretty damn easy, though I died a few times on my wizard (took a fireball from Azmodean in my face and was spamming the wrong key by Diablo, then he eat my face). Nightmare mode didn't let me do it, when I first encountered a pack of rabid elite fast, walling zombies. It quickly showed me my flaws with my current skill setup and forced me to rethink my strategy (aka, not charging in blindly anymore, but more kiting).

    That said, the game on normal is accessible to a lot of people, even ones new to gaming in general. In that it succeeds brilliantly. Act 1 is pretty easy though, in any difficulty I guess. Most mobs are soooooooooo slow. Kiting is not really all that hard there, from the perspective of a ranged class of course. Act 2 is where the fun begins. I and a lot of others apparantly, were pretty suprised by the amount of damage you get from the opening mobs in Act 2, namely the cat people and the rifle wasps image

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