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Originally posted by xDayx Anything is better than what AAA's do now. Thats like asking someone stranded in the desert if they want only 1 sip of water. Of course they do. The entitlement mentality has definitely bled into the younger mmo generation though I'm afraid.
It's an entertainment product, so of course people are going to act entitled towards it. Because they can. If you make a crappy game, there are thousands of other games people can play instead. They're going to make their entitlement-sounding statements and leave.
And the company making the poor entertainment product is going to go out of business.
Meanwhile until you can come up with a reason for hardcore death actually being a compelling or creating deep gameplay, it remains a poorly-justified idea.
Permadeath style mechanics only work in game with very short progression cycles like Nethack, or in games with no progression at all (but at that point it's not really permadeath)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Why would I pay money for non-life like entertainment that will punish me by not allowing me to play, thus not entertaine, for the sake of realism?!?
FANTASY games should not try to be REAL.
If there was anything realistic I would want in my magic/sword swinging, sci-fi/future games with races that arent real based on some other planet it would be bouncing boobies...not realistic death.
I said boobies...lol.
Seriously though, I buy a game to play it. Perma death or massive penalties keeps me from doing that and its more of a punishment for playing the game forcing you to play ultra ultra careful which draws from the entire game. The idea of risk = reward is as bad as time = reward in MMORPGs.
How about fun = reward instead?
Yeah, a game based on fun....you do something cause its fun, not because of what you get at the end of doing it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by xDayx Anything is better than what AAA's do now. Thats like asking someone stranded in the desert if they want only 1 sip of water. Of course they do. The entitlement mentality has definitely bled into the younger mmo generation though I'm afraid.
I agree with you on games that have a considerable time investment should not have hardcore death penalties unless the penalties imposed on the player that caused someone elses death and loss of said considerable amount of time also are there, i.e. you chose to murder someone then by all means you should be hunted, tried, judged and hung, receiving the same hardcore death upon completion as you dealt out.
Having such high penalties for such a long time would be worse than permadeath.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by L0C0Man If you had asked me a few years ago, I would have probably liked the idea. As it is right now, I wouldn't play it at all. My gaming time is more limited because of work, family and going back to college, so I wouldn't want it to find myself in a position where I have some free time but can't play because of the death penalty. Also, I lost count the number of times I've died in an MMO because I'm playing late at night, and have to leave it there in the middle of a fight and run to the other room because the baby woke up crying.
I agree with this mostly. I voted Maybe, if the time X wasn't too long. That suggestion of having to not die for a month to have your stats restored sounds way too bloody long. And if it was open PvP it would be an absolute necessity to have something akin to Eve Online's system security status and CONCORD police; if some upper level character or group of characters go on a gank-fest in the beginner zones plus some other safe zones, they should be killed by security guards and have the same, if not harsher, stat penalty.
Otherwise, the game will be dead within a week of launch.
Where's the any key?
if there was a compelling reason for it, i could deal with permadeath....
as an example, say there was a specific zone in the game that if you die in, you have permadeath. this zone is open to anyone, any race, any level, any faction
contained within this zone are several items of almost incalculable power, a trinket granting near unlimited wealth, a weapon that can kill any normal monster in one hit, a means to have your own kingdom where you can make or set the rules, whatever it is, something that is so overwhelmingly powerful that you can only have 1 of these items ever created on that server, and each character is limited to only possessing one of these items...
you progress not even really with combat, although the combat is scales to whatever level you are, but also clues, puzzles, investigations etc....
in a scenario like this.... i would take my chances
I'd like a game with penalties like EQ had - corpse run, exp reduction and ultimately corpse decay with losing all items. Corpse runs were actually mini games as it involved a lot of dying sometimes
WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ysFH1942 best tanker for 4yearsPlaying WWII OL for some years untill nowmany other for some months
I voted no, mostly because I tend to get pissed when I die in even a mild death penalty environment. Also I've observed that I tend to play classes that have high survivability, and actively avoid playing low survivability classes, at least when I'm playing solo. (for group play, I don't mind squishy characters)
If I do something stupid, then I deserve the death. If I get unlucky for example by walking into a room that has random spawn high levels, then I deserve the death. I'm okay with these. I don't want a game where it is impossible to die.
However, if having a character death means not getting what I was after (booted from a dungeon for example), that is punishment in its own. Adding more punishment on top of that is like adding injury to insult.
Of course some love a strong death penalty, I'm just not one of them.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Thread title says " semi hard" in it.
I approve this thread.
I never find it enjoiable to die in games.Why make it worse than it allredy is.
Originally posted by zethcarn By that I mean when your character dies it is unplayable (or recieves -75% stat reduction) for X amount of time. Each time you die the debuff timer gets a little longer until you can go 1 month or so without dying, then the debuff timer is reset. I think it would make players think before they act and it would definetely add a greater sense of danger.
Ha, I was just mentioning this system in the perma-death thread without having even read this thread. But I totally agree, this is exactly what I would like to try.
Though your numbers are a bit steaper than I was thinking, and I was thinking just unplayable, I don't see much point in 75% stat reduction.
If a character dies IMO, they should be completely unplayable.
I responded to another thread about perma-death in MMOs with this:
"Remember that anyone who wishes something of this sort already has the option to delete a character if he dies (Ive played though games in this manner and it does add a certain level of excitement).
In general, since someone desiring a perma-death option for their own characters already has this option in every MMO that has ever been created (as far as I know none of them deny you the ability to delete a character), what proponents of perma-death systems in MMOs are really arguing for is the ability to impose it on others who do not desire it. Again, if both you and your opponent want perrma-death, you can have it in any game you play. The only situation where you cannot have perma-death in most MMOs is when the other player doesn't want it.
Why do proponents of perma-death systems feel that they should be able to decide for another player whether or not his character should be deleted ?"
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Originally posted by Ashen_X I responded to another thread about perma-death in MMOs with this: "Remember that anyone who wishes something of this sort already has the option to delete a character if he dies (Ive played though games in this manner and it does add a certain level of excitement). In general, since someone desiring a perma-death option for their own characters already has this option in every MMO that has ever been created (as far as I know none of them deny you the ability to delete a character), what proponents of perma-death systems in MMOs are really arguing for is the ability to impose it on others who do not desire it. Again, if both you and your opponent want perrma-death, you can have it in any game you play. The only situation where you cannot have perma-death in most MMOs is when the other player doesn't want it. Why do proponents of perma-death systems feel that they should be able to decide for another player whether or not his character should be deleted ?"
No one is imposing permadeath on other players, games with permadeath would be made to players that like permadeath, not to non permadeath players. There are many other mmorpgs you can play out there.
Permadeath is like this type of music:
Its wierd and not for everyone (PS: I dont like it), but this was not made for everyone, and you dont need to listen it, if you dont like, no one is blasting it in your face, and the amount of guys doing it is pretty small if you compare with all other types of music, so no other music type will be destryoed (by the lack of musicians doing it) because they are doing this type only.
Also permadeath influence the gameplay, alot like many other mmorpg features.