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Cryptic unconcerned with losing global playability for the sake of lock boxes

ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member

Link to article on Massively




Originally Posted by Suricata
Also, I got an email back from the Danish Justice ministry, the Danish Gambling Authorities are now investigating the lockboxes in STO in relation to Danish law, it should be noted that because the ships are tradeable and have shown up on some auction sites, like ebay, they can actually have a real world value, which really complicates the issue!




Quote Originally Posted by Prower
Just imagine all that lost revenue from one of the richest areas in the world if this goes the worst case scenario.




Quote Originally Posted by @borticus
Honestly? Probably less revenue than would be lost by not doing any more Lock Boxes.

...

I hope you realize that the most likely course of action here, if any is taken, is that the STO becomes unplayable in the Netherlands. IP blocks, proxy blocks, etc.



Quotes from Borticus taken from here


So there you have it folks. Cryptic would rather take their toys and go home than give up their precious lockboxes.


Borticus did try to do the usual spin/backpedalling here, but personally I do not buy any of his whining. Anyone stupid enough to be making comments like he did in a public forum for all the world to see deserves what they get. Most companies have policies that forbid an employee from publicly expressing opinions on how the company operates or their feelings about management or representing the companies views. You see this all the time on TV here in the US where a program has a disclaimer to the effect of "the views in this program do not represent the network" etc. If he is dumb enough to publicly talk about how he thinks Cryptic might stop doing business in entire continents should the lockbox scams be ruled as illegal, he should not be crying about that opinion being published.


I could be wrong, but since EU laws may apply here to this kind of thing, it is likely that should the boxes be deemed illegal in Denmark, chances are good they will be all throughout the EU, which would mean STO would become unavailable in Europe. So Cryptic would just take their toy and go home.


Nice to know how little Cryptic values you as a customer, eh?

Thread on the STO forums is here.


 

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Comments

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,021Member Uncommon

    I not played sto since the first month of launch so I had to go look up these lock boxes.  First they look like random drops, but you have to go to the cstore to buy the key to unlock them?  Is that a correct statement.

     

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member

    You can buy keys in the C-Store yes.  You can also buy some on the in-game exchange.

     

    I will try to find the posts/threads about it again (although I believe they have since been removed) where it was proven that the on-screen announcements when someone opened a box and received a ship were naming players that never won a ship.  In some cases, the accounts were for people who no longer played the game.

     

    These lockboxes are a scam, plain and simple. 

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,324Member Uncommon

       lol blowing this out of propotion aint yah...one employee does not an entire company make

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster

       lol blowing this out of propotion aint yah...one employee does not an entire company make

    Not at all.  Read the linked articles as well as the various other threads regarding the topic of Lockboxes.

  • CacaphonyCacaphony Tacoma, WAPosts: 738Member


    Originally posted by ShardWarrior
    Link to article on Massively

    Originally Posted by Suricata
    Also, I got an email back from the Danish Justice ministry, the Danish Gambling Authorities are now investigating the lockboxes in STO in relation to Danish law, it should be noted that because the ships are tradeable and have shown up on some auction sites, like ebay, they can actually have a real world value, which really complicates the issue!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prower
    Just imagine all that lost revenue from one of the richest areas in the world if this goes the worst case scenario.



    Quote Originally Posted by @borticus
    Honestly? Probably less revenue than would be lost by not doing any more Lock Boxes.

    ...

    I hope you realize that the most likely course of action here, if any is taken, is that the STO becomes unplayable in the Netherlands. IP blocks, proxy blocks, etc.



    Quotes from Borticus taken from here


    So there you have it folks. Cryptic would rather take their toys and go home than give up their precious lockboxes.


    Borticus did try to do the usual spin/backpedalling here, but personally I do not buy any of his whining. Anyone stupid enough to be making comments like he did in a public forum for all the world to see deserves what they get. Most companies have policies that forbid an employee from publicly expressing opinions on how the company operates or their feelings about management or representing the companies views. You see this all the time on TV here in the US where a program has a disclaimer to the effect of "the views in this program do not represent the network" etc. If he is dumb enough to publicly talk about how he thinks Cryptic might stop doing business in entire continents should the lockbox scams be ruled as illegal, he should not be crying about that opinion being published.


    I could be wrong, but since EU laws may apply here to this kind of thing, it is likely that should the boxes be deemed illegal in Denmark, chances are good they will be all throughout the EU, which would mean STO would become unavailable in Europe. So Cryptic would just take their toy and go home.


    Nice to know how little Cryptic values you as a customer, eh?

    Thread on the STO forums is here.


     


    Heh, I just wonder what business Borticus had even talking about this sort of thing to the media or to fans. He is still, for all intents and purposes, a Cryptic newbie that is low on the totem pole. Where does he get backing or the right to make these broad statements?

    He has GOT to know that whatever he says will be torn to shreds and picked apart by the media and other people that participate in the forums. He has been around long enough to know this. Take into consideration his statements about quelling the haters during the player council fiasco. His words were under heavy scrutiny.


    Go back to STOKED J man... that's where you should have stayed. Reporting on the news with unrelenting bias, not creating it through thickheaded and probably misrepresenting statements.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon

    JEREMY RANDALL/BorticusCryptic is an idiot. This moron has has caused controversy through arrogance in and inetptide since early on. This cheeleader for Cryptic has finagled a position at Cryptic  after a while of butt smotching over at STO'ked . Who can possibly forget http://www.startrekonline.com/node/1470. Undoubtly his influential hand at work. While I believe what he said is accurate as far as Cryptic's attitude toward the player base. His ego has reached a proportionally as big as Cryptic's, as an assistant system designer you should do less talking and more work on that POS engine that Cryptic uses.

    image
  • staranstaran ottawa, ONPosts: 87Member Uncommon
    Doesn't matter. Just don't buy a thing cryptic will ever sell ever again.
    They are toxic
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Concerning lockboxes in the Netherlands, the correct course of action is to simply not have the game playable in the Netherlands. No reason that everyone in the game should be denied something they want just because one country has different views on virtual items.

    About the other stuff and lockboxes being a scam, I have no idea. Cryptic has always done cheap work on the two games I've played that they produced so I think it's more likely that their system didn't work right, rather than it was a scam. I'm not sure that's better...scam at least implies that they knew what they were doing.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,324Member Uncommon

       Im not the sort to hold dull games against a game company, So i guess ill agree to disagree.   STO was crap and I quit playing it...but I eagerly anticipate Neverwinter. 

     

       AS for the lockboxes them selves...seems like a minor issue. DCUO has htem as well and im sure a slew of other f2p mmo's that im unaware of also provide them and with the buy a key in teh cash store feature.  I dont see it as game breaking nor do I see it as Pay 2 Win.  I do see it a a scam, but just a little one and being entirely blown out of proportion

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Concerning lockboxes in the Netherlands, the correct course of action is to simply not have the game playable in the Netherlands. No reason that everyone in the game should be denied something they want just because one country has different views on virtual items.
     

    It is possible that the EU law would apply here as well.  Cryptic would have to block access to any country in the European Union, which I would imagine is a significant chunk of income for them.  Is that worth it?

     

    Cryptic knew full well what they were doing with the lockboxes.  They are a scam. 

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by apocoluster

      I do see it a a scam, but just a little one and being entirely blown out of proportion

    If my memory is right, Prime Minister Chamberlain said something similar about Germany invading Poland in 1933.   "It was only a "little" invasion...  "   image

     

    Conjecture aside, complacency over the "little" things is what can lead to the whole MMO market getting polluted with junk like these lockboxes.    Just my 2 cents.

  • GruugGruug Chillicothe, ILPosts: 1,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Concerning lockboxes in the Netherlands, the correct course of action is to simply not have the game playable in the Netherlands. No reason that everyone in the game should be denied something they want just because one country has different views on virtual items.
     

    It is possible that the EU law would apply here as well.  Cryptic would have to block access to any country in the European Union, which I would imagine is a significant chunk of income for them.  Is that worth it?

     

    Cryptic knew full well what they were doing with the lockboxes.  They are a scam. 

     

    EU law may not be relevant sometime in the near future anyway.....if Spainish and Greek meltdowns and French comments are any indicators. Ultimately, the issue (or non-issue?) is in the hands of the Netherlands.

    It isn't "lockboxes are a scam" but rather Free to Play is a scam.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member

    I didn't know anyone still gave a shit what Cryptic is or isn't concerned with?

    It's not like I look in the bowl before flushing and ask my turd if it has any concerns.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    I didn't know anyone still gave a shit what Cryptic is or isn't concerned with?

    It's not like I look in the bowl before flushing and ask my turd if it has any concerns.

    This cracked me up!  LOL!

  • JayBirdzJayBirdz Clarksville, TNPosts: 1,017Member

    I've been patiently waiting for the  U.S. legal system to take notice of games using these systems.  Companies can manipulate the percentages of winning on the fly.   Raise them to generate excitement in the community, then set them to basically zero.  Even better a script can do this.  If a person has played a game which uses these systems they've seen it time after time.

    Player1: Did you know player A got 2 yesterday off of 20 boxes!!!

    Player2: Ya! I heard PlayerB got 2 from 15 !

    Player3: I think it's time for me to try my luck.

    Sometime later:

    Player1: Dam...  I heard PlayerB, PlayerC, PlayerD all bought 40 each and not a one of them won this time.

    Player2: I know right.... :( I guess PlayerE got lucky with his 1 win from 60 :S

    Player1: I so want <such and such>, but I don't feel like getting burned.. 

    ect.... ect... ect....

     

    The whole appeal to using these systems.

    1: Small amount of resources to create items.

    2. Zero upkeep until it's time to freshen up the system a year + later. 

    3. A script can handle the percentages so that the server does not become over saturated to quickly. 

    4. Profit.

     

     

  • ZekiahZekiah Posts: 2,483Member Uncommon

    I hope they get sued, they can go choke on a bankruptcy for all I care. The gambling scam they're pushing on players is pathetic.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,686Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zekiah

    I hope they get sued, they can go choke on a bankruptcy for all I care. The gambling scam they're pushing on players is pathetic.

     

    Not that I support or like what Cryptic are doing here, but MMORPGs have been about gambling for years... a fruit machine where the currency is time.

    Now they have decided they don't want your time, they want your cash.

    Play less, spend more... yep, the modern MMORPG working exactly as intended.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Some people don't agree with this and that's ok we don't have all to agree.

    I hope lockboxes and similar things will get banned in as much countries as possible.

     

    If there will be anything possible for me to do , like voting for a politican that want to do it, lobby for it , sign a citizen project of law ,etc I will do it.

  • TyrranosaurTyrranosaur Albuquerque, NMPosts: 284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior
    Originally posted by apocoluster

      I do see it a a scam, but just a little one and being entirely blown out of proportion

    If my memory is right, Prime Minister Chamberlain said something similar about Germany invading Poland in 1933.   "It was only a "little" invasion...  "   image

     

    Conjecture aside, complacency over the "little" things is what can lead to the whole MMO market getting polluted with junk like these lockboxes.    Just my 2 cents.

    13 posts before Godwin's Law kicked in....is that a record?

     

    (Also, I think you meant 1939)

     

    But yeah, much as I enjoyed Champions Online, I've since abandoned Cryptic entirely. They had enough problems on their own, but just when they looked like they were starting to turn around (CO F2P was actually pretty decent for a bit), becoming part of Perfect World seems to have brought the evil out in droves.

    Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
    Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior
     

    It is possible that the EU law would apply here as well.  Cryptic would have to block access to any country in the European Union, which I would imagine is a significant chunk of income for them.  Is that worth it?

     

    Even if STO owners will think that it is worth not having game avabile in some country or in whole EU - for all I care they and all games with similar lockboxes things can just get banned and not be avabile in my country.

    I can live without them.

  • ZekiahZekiah Posts: 2,483Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vesavius
    Originally posted by Zekiah

    I hope they get sued, they can go choke on a bankruptcy for all I care. The gambling scam they're pushing on players is pathetic.

     

    Not that I support or like what Cryptic are doing here, but MMORPGs have been about gambling for years... a fruit machine where the currency is time.

    Now they have decided they don't want your time, they want your cash.

    Play less, spend more... yep, the modern MMORPG working exactly as intended.

    Yeah but they crossed the greed line into scam territory. Not only did they create a gambling scheme with absolutely horrible odds but they also refuse to post the odds of winning.

    It's borderline criminal, and perhaps it is in many countries. Whatever the case may be, they deserve to suck on a bankruptcy being the jack wagon thugs they are.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior New York, NYPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by Tyrranosaur

    13 posts before Godwin's Law kicked in....is that a record?

     

    LOL!  If yes, do I win a prize? image

     

    I would agree Cryptic has gotten (much) worse since the purchase by PWE.  IMO Cryptic went downhill when NC Soft bought out their half of the City of Heroes IP.  The real talented folk Cryptic had at the time (wisely) left to form what is today Paragon Studios.

    Cryptic has been a joke ever since.

     

  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior
    Originally posted by Tyrranosaur

    13 posts before Godwin's Law kicked in....is that a record?

     

    LOL!  If yes, do I win a prize? image

     

    I would agree Cryptic has gotten (much) worse since the purchase by PWE.  IMO Cryptic went downhill when NC Soft bought out their half of the City of Heroes IP.  The real talented folk Cryptic had at the time (wisely) left to form what is today Paragon Studios.

    Cryptic has been a joke ever since.

     

      Truth be told this is kind a concern on my part as well.  I am turning the other cheek though and I actually am looking foward to Neverwinter...i just hope it doesnt..well you know...i hope its more like CoX and less like STO (though this is an unfair comparison as I havnt played STO in years..though I downloaded it when it went F2P..jsut never played it)

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • KingGatorKingGator Tampa, FLPosts: 428Member Uncommon

    The problem here is Danish law not cryptic. Governments, especially socialist governments, try and control all aspects of people's lives and this is where we're all headed.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by JayBirdz
    I've been patiently waiting for the  U.S. legal system to take notice of games using these systems.  Companies can manipulate the percentages of winning on the fly.   Raise them to generate excitement in the community, then set them to basically zero.  Even better a script can do this.  If a person has played a game which uses these systems they've seen it time after time.Player1: Did you know player A got 2 yesterday off of 20 boxes!!!Player2: Ya! I heard PlayerB got 2 from 15 !Player3: I think it's time for me to try my luck.Sometime later:Player1: Dam...  I heard PlayerB, PlayerC, PlayerD all bought 40 each and not a one of them won this time.Player2: I know right.... :( I guess PlayerE got lucky with his 1 win from 60 :SPlayer1: I so want <such and such>, but I don't feel like getting burned.. ect.... ect... ect.... The whole appeal to using these systems.1: Small amount of resources to create items.2. Zero upkeep until it's time to freshen up the system a year + later. 3. A script can handle the percentages so that the server does not become over saturated to quickly. 4. Profit.  

    You've just described both the behavior of a random system and a non-random system. It would be a lot easier to just set a fairly low % chance to drop, and people will see patterns like the above described pattern and then go buy a bunch of stuff. Cryptic doesn't have to fool people into doing it, they do it to themselves. That's why Casinos make money...people think they see patterns in randomness and spend all their money on it.

    I'm not a big fan of random things in games. I especially don't like it when you spend real money on it. The only thing you can be sure of is that you're likely to lose money or time when you play with the RNG.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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