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Graphics get'n better - GW2>all

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  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    when people talk about age of conan's graphics it always comes back to tortage, yes tortage is beautiful and probably the best zone in any mmo but, the rest of Aoc doesn't come near to that quality. I found the rest of the world to be souless and barren.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa

    fiontar amazing SS. in what resolution you take them? skill bar seem so litle, you redimension ?

    Many are screens I didn't take myself. I've seen some screen shots at over 5000 pixels wide and some taken from three monitor setups in a sort of panorama aspect ratio.

    The GUI in that shot seems to be from an original res of at least 2560x1440.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • MeleagarMeleagar Nunyadambidness, TXPosts: 407Member

    Like with Hi-Def TV's and printing resolution, at some point you reach a technical level where increases in polygon count and particles in effects, etc, reach a point of diminishing returns.  It might make a difference if you blow the picture up to 60" on a super-hi-def flatscreen, but does it really make that much of a difference in how much you enjoy a game past a couple of "oohs" and "aahs" as you play on a 24" hi-res monitor? At some point, being able to see individual strands of hair or a speck of dirt on a tunic just doesn't matter any more, and it certainly isn't what keeps anyone playing the game. What matters is if the game is enjoyable and pleasing to look at, and the art style and graphics enhance rather than subtract from your enjoyment of the game.

    The art in GW2 is beautiful, IMO, and the graphics are way more than sufficient to make the beautiful art come alive in an enjoyable animated style for playing the game. IMO, there's really no point in trying to take GW2 graphics up to the polygon count and sheer, minute, mind-boggling detail of some other games that are extreme in that category because (1) it's just not going to add that much to the game (diminishing returns), and (2) it's just going to leave behind a lot of people who want to play the game. IOW, nobody is going to not buy, play & enjoy WW2 simply because ANET hasn't  maxed out the technical capcity of modern graphics engines - yet, anyway. We haven't seen the final, optimized build.

    I mean, good grief, WoW is still the king, with AoC and FFXiV far, far behind. That tells you all you need to know about how important the "technical" side of graphics is in this industry.

     

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,680Member Uncommon

    Just to show an example, this is one of the panoramic shots I grabbed off the web.

    5760x1080

    All the images I've posted, including this one, can be seen in their full resolution by clicking the image.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • MeleagarMeleagar Nunyadambidness, TXPosts: 407Member

    I mean, I'm not sure why anyone needs graphics that are better than those screenshotted above, or this:

  • mikunimanmikuniman NYPosts: 339Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gabby-air

    Those are good aesthetics not good graphics, for good graphics look for AOC. 

    I agree, I like GW2 gameplay so far the graphics are just above average at best.  AOC and Tera graphics are just amazing. Conan's armor layers still blow me away and Tera has that asian magic coding going on, insane graphics with smooth gameplay.

  • PivotelitePivotelite Hamilton, ONPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon

     

    I place down 4 screenshots.

     

     

    I end my turn.

     

     

    Fiontar, your move!

    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour SwedenPosts: 2,146Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cloud8521
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by cloud8521
    Originally posted by Four0Six

    It seems many speak of "style" and not "polygon count"

    To do a graphics comparasion, it is all about the polygon count in a 3d game.

    To compare style is to compare Dali and Michalanglo, and comment that Dali is better because you dont like churches.

    no. i already made this clear graphics in video games are more then about the polygon count.

    Your "logic" includes subjective opinion.

    Logic is NOT subjective, validating MY argument.

    BOTH Dali and Michalanglo are amazing, but choose to paint in vastly different styles appealing to vastly different groups. Making an argument about which is better is, again, fail.

     

    By doing a comparasion with just polygon count and maybe what dx a game runs on, leaves us with a simple technical argument that is free from opinion and therefore more solid.

     

    so your telling me that  you will take a cement barrier from crysis 2 (which had  been insanlely overdone on the pony count in the pc DX11 patch) and say  that  cinderblock looks better then any cinderblock ever because it has  alot of ponygons. even though its  texture left more to be desired and was lax in the art department?  but it was the best because its poly count was just that  high?

    no dude, you have to look at the whole plicure (get it... graphics are visual)  you have to tace art, style of art,  the polies are a factor...  but you cant just say poly is all you need to call something better. you need to put it all together and with art you got to be subjective

     

    What if art style doesn't matter when you are judging which ones has the better graphics? The thing with polygons is that they are used to give a smooth transition between different flat surfaces  (Just imagine an orange made of lots of triangles). However, there is a point where the human eye can no longer distinguish the difference between two large sums of polygons; I don't know if we have reached such large polygon counts yet.

     

    I am unsure though if implementation of different physical effects is considered to be a part of graphics: such as the implementation of light effects. If so, then polygon count is not the only important factor.

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,789Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

  • mikunimanmikuniman NYPosts: 339Member Uncommon

    it is beautiful no doubt (GW2) but a bit washed out for my taste. I prefer the photo realistic look it's more immersive to me. Artismal or whatever reminds me I'm in a game. In Tera I find myself getting as close as possible to see a new mob's detail before I get wacked, they need to steal an art dev from that game.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour SwedenPosts: 2,146Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

     

    Edit: 

    I can link you to a ign review where they make a clear difference between the art style and the graphical implementation of http://cube.ign.com/articles/390/390314p3.html. The game in question there was the cell-shaded game: Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. I quote the article there: 

    "Graphics

    There are bound to be differences of opinion and more probably heated disputes over Wind Waker's style. The cartoony presentation shocked gamers when Nintendo unveiled it for the first time and sure enough some long-time Zelda fanatics even swore off the franchise because of it. But whether one's in favor of the graphic choice or not, there can be no disagreement over Nintendo's triumphant execution of it. It is, perhaps, the most beautiful cel-shaded videogame to date, period.

    The sad truth is that the mainstream audience may, with no understanding of the technology required to realize the style, shrug Wind Waker's visuals off as primitive. However, players with keen eyes and an appreciation for the art of making games will know that Nintendo has not only created a hugely stylistic world down to every last detail, but also pushed the power of GameCube to do so.

    The environments, from the open sea to the dozens of islands that Link explores, are so gigantic in size that it's an achievement in of itself. But the level of clarity that blankets each locale is just amazing. The draw distance is unchallenged by any other game and as such it's possible to look literally miles into the distance with Link's telescope. Ocean waves animate onto sand, birds flock around in the distance, the leaves of palm trees blow around, particles float lazily, and all sorts of characters run about while doing their own scripted thing, all with fluid, cartoon-like motions. But that's hardly all. The models are all detailed and well textured, fitted with self-shadowing and facial animation, too. There are effects like heat-shimmering and huge particle explosions, real-time lighting, depth of field blur, reflections, transparencies, refraction and more. Everything runs fairly constant at 30 frames and the title also supports progressive scan mode. The game is just gorgeous.

    "

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,789Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour SwedenPosts: 2,146Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

    That's not a single player review, I specifically refered to "single player reviews". The reason why is beause the single player arena has a far longer tradition of professional reviews of many genres with different art styles. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,789Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

    That's not a single player review, I specifically refered to "single player reviews". The reason why is beause the single player arena has a far longer tradition of professional reviews of many genres with different art styles. 

    My bad. You're right.

     

    http://www.fpsguru.com/game/308/article/1899/Mass-Effect-3-Review.html

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour SwedenPosts: 2,146Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

    That's not a single player review, I specifically refered to "single player reviews". The reason why is beause the single player arena has a far longer tradition of professional reviews of many genres with different art styles. 

    My bad. You're right.

     

    http://www.fpsguru.com/game/308/article/1899/Mass-Effect-3-Review.html

    Thank you, but that article does not have a "graphics score", it has an "aesthetics score". 

     

    Edit: Art style is indeed important for the "aesthetics". In theory, you can hate the aesthetics of a game due to the art style even though the technology behind the implementation of that art style is insanely good. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,789Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

    That's not a single player review, I specifically refered to "single player reviews". The reason why is beause the single player arena has a far longer tradition of professional reviews of many genres with different art styles. 

    My bad. You're right.

     

    http://www.fpsguru.com/game/308/article/1899/Mass-Effect-3-Review.html

    Thank you, but that article does not have a "graphics score", it has an "aesthetics score". 

    Oh. Cool. Yeah, there are a ton of single players games with an aesthetics score in their review. I thought that is what you were arguing about, but obviously I was wrong.

  • cloud8521cloud8521 Toronto, ONPosts: 878Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

    That's not a single player review, I specifically refered to "single player reviews". The reason why is beause the single player arena has a far longer tradition of professional reviews of many genres with different art styles. 

    My bad. You're right.

     

    http://www.fpsguru.com/game/308/article/1899/Mass-Effect-3-Review.html

    Thank you, but that article does not have a "graphics score", it has an "aesthetics score". 


    Graphics encoumpances aesthetics as  graphics are the visual media

  • Anyone who think most game reviewers are capable of separating "graphics" from the overall art is fooling themselves.  Beyond some obvious polgon count and lighting stuff, they are complete slaves to the visual tricks a good artists uses.

     

    They usually couldn't be less aware.

     

    Also most game reivews suck balls.  Single player or MMO.  Why bother arguing about them?

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by cloud8521
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    However, art style shouldn't be a factor and reading single player reviews, they never seem to have allowed  the "art style" to influence when they set a score in the graphics section. 

    Can't be more false than that. There are many, many reviewers that take aesthetics into consideration.

    Link to  reviews where it is evident that the "art style" is being taken into consideration for the graphics score. I haven't noticed them, so it would be good if I could see them. 

    Here's one for instance:

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/518/view/reviews/load/152/Are-Aesthetics-Enough.html

    That's not a single player review, I specifically refered to "single player reviews". The reason why is beause the single player arena has a far longer tradition of professional reviews of many genres with different art styles. 

    My bad. You're right.

     

    http://www.fpsguru.com/game/308/article/1899/Mass-Effect-3-Review.html

    Thank you, but that article does not have a "graphics score", it has an "aesthetics score". 


    Graphics encoumpances aesthetics as  graphics are the visual media

    not true!..graphics are just mathemathic formulas used to draw lines and shapes. Aesthetics is all about art and conveying a type of theme or mood.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour SwedenPosts: 2,146Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Anyone who think most game reviewers are capable of separating "graphics" from the overall art is fooling themselves.  Beyond some obvious polgon count and lighting stuff, they are complete slaves to the visual tricks a good artists uses.

     

    They usually couldn't be less aware.

     

    Also most game reivews suck balls.  Single player or MMO.  Why bother arguing about them?

     

    Are the visual tricks a part of the art style or just general methods used to "trick" the beholder? When I think of "art style", I think more of choice of clothing, architecture, facial symmetry, bodypart sizes, haircuts, animal shape, etc. 

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member

    People are confusing one thing for another. I'll just drop this in here, again.

     

    Graphics vs. Aesthetics

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/graphics-vs.-aesthetics

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member
    Originally posted by Goreson
    *snip*
    So spare us the lies of scaling monster level to fit your level - there were no other players there but me! - your freedom to explore is probably more restricted in GW2 than in other game simply due to the number of monsters in the area.

    *snip*

     You are scaled down to not stomp all over the monsters. You're not scaled up in PvE to make the monsters killable regardless of your actual level. If someone said you did, then he lied.

    imageimage
  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by NBlitz

    People are confusing one thing for another. I'll just drop this in here, again.

     

    Graphics vs. Aesthetics

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/graphics-vs.-aesthetics

    thanks for the link. informative and fun explanation xD

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by NBlitz

    People are confusing one thing for another. I'll just drop this in here, again.

     

    Graphics vs. Aesthetics

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/graphics-vs.-aesthetics

    this is something I argue with people all the time about.. this is why wow did so well and still does to this day in that department. People need ot get past just the polygon count and look at the overall picture and to see that picture you really need tro play the game not just look at some screenshots.. GW2 does an amazing job of blending graphics and aesthetics, more so than most any MMO I have played before and it really adds so much to the overall play experience.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • cippalippacippalippa MilanoPosts: 109Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NBlitz

    People are confusing one thing for another. I'll just drop this in here, again.

     

    Graphics vs. Aesthetics

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/graphics-vs.-aesthetics

    This.

    GW2 have nice graphics, not soo much technologically adavanced, but a good aesthetic counterpart, not exceptional, but still remarkable.

    Tera have the opposite. Well i just dont like kor-goth-emo style clashing with sporadically random elements from reinassance, classic , baroque, victorian ages.

    AoC has still good graphic even if old (although expensive in resource demand), and also a terribly good aesthetic (and music!!!).

    WoW hit the spot when it was published, because even if the graphic was not so updated it resambled the IP style aesthetic, it had very good performance even on low-end machine, the action was fluid and the non istanced world was enormous and immersive, thus you see as aesthetic served the game mechanics, helping to make the product succesful.

    Going back to GW2 graphics seems pleasing and fairly detiled, a little too clean sometimes to seems even bland on occasion, and if you look well you can see a poor use of mip-mapping, and tree foliage representation. Even sacrifying some quality there every video i have seen seems low on FPS, like 20-25, or just the animation look a little stuttering to me, accentuated when camera is panning. Even if this is normal i expect published videos to be run and recorded on high end machines, so i'm afraid how could they perform on average and low-end machines.

    Anyway this problem is minimal being the product still to be published, and thus tuned towards future gfx-cards equipped machines.

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