Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The end of 4am Raids?

DaveBelcherDaveBelcher CheltenhamPosts: 40Member

Hi guys,

We have posted a new developer video blog today, explaining the fundamentals of Embers of Caerus' seige warfare system, and how it is designed to counter the 4am raid problem many games have fallen foul of. Check it out, and we would love to hear your thoughts/feedback!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDJC2KHsj30&hd=1

 

Cheers,

Dave

Comments

  • I have a problem with classifying stuff happening when you aren't around as a "problem".

     

    The world SHOULD significantly evolve while you are gone.  The problem has always been a matter of bottle necks and certain things being favorable.

     

    But denying any possibility for things to happen except at certain windows gets really mundane.  One of the main draws of dynamic gameplay is you do not know what or when something may happen.

     

    If everything is centered around a siege mechanic that can only transfer an ownership at certain times then it may be the case you have designed your game into a corner where you are forced into a dilemma of two choices neither of which are good: a) make 4am the favorable bottelneck time or b) make your game more predicatable and less dynamic and therefore not as exciting or "cool".

     

    I think games are treating these things in a too simplistic and one-dimensional.  I understand why as these are significant and complex tasks.  But I believe designers are painting themselves into corners that could be alleivated by putting a few more layers of interaction into it.

  • DaveBelcherDaveBelcher CheltenhamPosts: 40Member

    Originally posted by gestalt11

    I have a problem with classifying stuff happening when you aren't around as a "problem".
     
    The world SHOULD significantly evolve while you are gone.  The problem has always been a matter of bottle necks and certain things being favorable.
     
    But denying any possibility for things to happen except at certain windows gets really mundane.  One of the main draws of dynamic gameplay is you do not know what or when something may happen.
     
    If everything is centered around a siege mechanic that can only transfer an ownership at certain times then it may be the case you have designed your game into a corner where you are forced into a dilemma of two choices neither of which are good: a) make 4am the favorable bottelneck time or b) make your game more predicatable and less dynamic and therefore not as exciting or "cool".
     
    I think games are treating these things in a too simplistic and one-dimensional.  I understand why as these are significant and complex tasks.  But I believe designers are painting themselves into corners that could be alleivated by putting a few more layers of interaction into it.

     

    I'm sorry Gestalt11, but you must either have not listened to the whole blog, or not understood. Our system doesn't deny the possibility for things to happen except at certain windows at all. It is AoC that uses that system, and I only mention it to demonstrate one of the other approaches that have been used previously.

     

    We fully agree with everything you said, and there is nothing at all in our designed system that prevents a 4am raid from happening, there are no hard-coded restrictions, and no time slots. Instead, the setup time implemented using seige camps gives a vigilant defender a chance to spot the incoming attack and proactively defend their territory. If the defender isn't patrolling their territory, and dont spot the invasion and seige camp, then there is nothing to stop the attacker executing that 4am raid unopposed.

     

    I suggest you go back and watch the video again, as you seem to have missed the part where I explained our system completely.


  • Originally posted by DaveBelcher


    Originally posted by gestalt11


    I have a problem with classifying stuff happening when you aren't around as a "problem".
     
    The world SHOULD significantly evolve while you are gone.  The problem has always been a matter of bottle necks and certain things being favorable.
     
    But denying any possibility for things to happen except at certain windows gets really mundane.  One of the main draws of dynamic gameplay is you do not know what or when something may happen.
     
    If everything is centered around a siege mechanic that can only transfer an ownership at certain times then it may be the case you have designed your game into a corner where you are forced into a dilemma of two choices neither of which are good: a) make 4am the favorable bottelneck time or b) make your game more predicatable and less dynamic and therefore not as exciting or "cool".
     
    I think games are treating these things in a too simplistic and one-dimensional.  I understand why as these are significant and complex tasks.  But I believe designers are painting themselves into corners that could be alleivated by putting a few more layers of interaction into it.

     

    I'm sorry Gestalt11, but you must either have not listened to the whole blog, or not understood. Our system doesn't deny the possibility for things to happen except at certain windows at all. It is AoC that uses that system, and I only mention it to demonstrate one of the other approaches that have been used previously.

     

    We fully agree with everything you said, and there is nothing at all in our designed system that prevents a 4am raid from happening, there are no hard-coded restrictions, and no time slots. Instead, the setup time implemented using seige camps gives a vigilant defender a chance to spot the incoming attack and proactively defend their territory. If the defender isn't patrolling their territory, and dont spot the invasion and seige camp, then there is nothing to stop the attacker executing that 4am raid unopposed.

     

    I suggest you go back and watch the video again, as you seem to have missed the part where I explained our system completely.

     I should have been more clear.  I was making a general statement about trends in MMOs.  If you are doing something along those lines then that is good.

  • tatbountytatbounty ocean county, NJPosts: 14Member

    i can't play these games where u have no influence..or it's on rails..or no sense of community

    when i found this game through my friend google..well..i must say i really like what i have read (and heard from ur new blog)

    made me register on ur forums and wish u the best..i'll certainly be keeping an eye on it as time goes on

     

    2 thumbs up on ur ideas on siege warfare..makes it more realistic imo..and lets be truthful..not everyone is online at all times lol..a guildie makes a phone call and wham..u got a battle on ur hands with this system

    i don't know jack..but i know his sister :)

  • berlightberlight almadaPosts: 156Member Uncommon

    Looks interesting, i fully support this project and ill spread the word.

    Keep it up.

    Beta tester maniac

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    another game looking for donation that might never even release. /sigh

  • xxpigxxxxpigxx Harlingen, TXPosts: 412Member
    the biggest hurdle, IMO, is the financial aspect.

    Why not put money on something you want?

    Worse that can happen is you are out a few Big Mac meals a month.

    Or you could end up with the game of your dreams.

    Win win. Less crap in your digestive system and/or a bad ass game! :D
  • MystaisMystais Purcellville, VAPosts: 72Member

    I am all in on this and will be watching optimistically.  I hope all goes well.  *crosses fingers*

    Tabletop RPG gaming since Chainmail and D&D was a blue book with some cheap plastic dice and a crayon. MMORPGing since MOOS/MUDS, when forums were just bulletin boards and players actually roleplayed their characters.

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNPosts: 57Member

    They actually have some pretty big funding in the works, they just need a little bump to get a demo together. At least, that's what I've been told.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Common
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,419Member Uncommon

    I honestly don't know much about this kind of gameplay ... but in every historical seige I have heard of ... the ones with massive armys, catapults, rams, etc .. it's not like you don't see those people marching towards your territory. Sure there were ways to have more suprise than the defender would have liked .. but without an invisibility spell .. one does not just march 100,000 men with catapults instantly to the doorstep. What I do remember is getting together in lower tiers of WAR with guilds, dashing in, plopping down catapults and destroying castles .. while fun .. not really realistic or defendable in a lot of situations.

    Anyway, best of luck.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • RomtimRomtim ParisPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by azmundai
    I honestly don't know much about this kind of gameplay ... but in every historical seige I have heard of ... the ones with massive armys, catapults, rams, etc .. it's not like you don't see those people marching towards your territory. Sure there were ways to have more suprise than the defender would have liked .. but without an invisibility spell .. one does not just march 100,000 men with catapults instantly to the doorstep. What I do remember is getting together in lower tiers of WAR with guilds, dashing in, plopping down catapults and destroying castles .. while fun .. not really realistic or defendable in a lot of situations. Anyway, best of luck.

    calling back embassadors

    image

Sign In or Register to comment.