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Why I defend online only.

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Comments

  • cscurlockcscurlock Philadelphia, PAPosts: 38Member

    At the end of the day the complaining doesnt matter.  With the amount they have made off this I suspect most game companies will be following suit in the future.   I forsee most development studios all going this route. 

    Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Grand Theft Auto franchises will all probably do this for future single player experiences.  Your options will be deal with it or not be able tp play them. 

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by wrightstuf

    This whole arguement wether D3 should have a separate offline single player separate from online single player baffles me.

    Did it ever occur to you that Blizzard just does not want any cheating in their game whatsoever. sure, you could say..."hey, who cares if i hack, dupe, cheat. I'm being kept separate from the online community and no one else will see me. " Blizzard doesnt see it that way. They do not want that element in their game at all, simple as that. They have always strived for integrity in their games and I applaud them for doing what they can in D3.

    So, next time you get your "error 37,"  blame the fucking criminals, not blizzard.

     <Facepalm>

    Criminals?  Really...criminals?

    So do you think that "GameGenie" should be considered contraband?  And anyone that enters console commands in Skyrim should be arrested?

    The fact that you think players using cheat codes who play single player only are somehow "criminals" is just...I don't really know what to say.

    Also...there still IS a way to get powerful items without actually playing the game to get them in D3 (cheating).  Except now, it costs real money, and that's really the whole point of this.

     

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon

    please don't post those links here...

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Carlsbad, CAPosts: 655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Tsuru

    The whole point to online only is to prevent people from getting access to the code that allows creation of hacks and mods. It has nothing to do with taking characters online from single player. Everything your doing in the game is server side, you can't access it.

    And in my opinion that is the right step in making sure there are no hacks/mods.

     Oh no not mods!  Anything but that!  Mods have clearly never brought anything valuable to the game industry.

    And as for hacks...don't you think this seems like a bit erm...excessive solution?  It would be like Microsoft saying that you can only run Windows off the cloud because if they allowed people to install it on their desktop, then well they might just hack it!  Oh noes!

    It's like cutting off your arm to save a finger.

    The reason they have always online is DRM.  That's it.  Every other explanation is a bunch of crap.

    Its people with your exact mentality thats the very reason. If people would just leave the game code alone and play the way it was intended.

    you cant be so naive to think it would stop at modding?? dude, what do you think DRM means and why its there?

    Mods are one thing, cheating is another. I'm sure at some point if blizzard thought modding would lend itself to the game, they would allow it. One only has to go to Curse Gaming site to see the many pages of mods for WoW. All with blizzard's blessing.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by wrightstuf
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Tsuru

    The whole point to online only is to prevent people from getting access to the code that allows creation of hacks and mods. It has nothing to do with taking characters online from single player. Everything your doing in the game is server side, you can't access it.

    And in my opinion that is the right step in making sure there are no hacks/mods.

     Oh no not mods!  Anything but that!  Mods have clearly never brought anything valuable to the game industry.

    And as for hacks...don't you think this seems like a bit erm...excessive solution?  It would be like Microsoft saying that you can only run Windows off the cloud because if they allowed people to install it on their desktop, then well they might just hack it!  Oh noes!

    It's like cutting off your arm to save a finger.

    The reason they have always online is DRM.  That's it.  Every other explanation is a bunch of crap.

    Its people with your exact mentality thats the very reason. If people would just leave the game code alone and play the way it was intended.

    you cant be so naive to think it would stop at modding?? dude, what do you think DRM means and why its there?

    Mods are one thing, cheating is another. I'm sure at some point if blizzard thought modding would lend itself to the game, they would allow it. One only has to go to Curse Gaming site to see the many pages of mods for WoW. All with blizzard's blessing.

     I think the DRM is there to prevent piracy and to protect the integrity of the RMAH so that people can "cheat legitimately."  But I guess that's just me lol :).

    Why do you think it's there?

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wrightstuf
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Tsuru

    The whole point to online only is to prevent people from getting access to the code that allows creation of hacks and mods. It has nothing to do with taking characters online from single player. Everything your doing in the game is server side, you can't access it.

    And in my opinion that is the right step in making sure there are no hacks/mods.

     Oh no not mods!  Anything but that!  Mods have clearly never brought anything valuable to the game industry.

    And as for hacks...don't you think this seems like a bit erm...excessive solution?  It would be like Microsoft saying that you can only run Windows off the cloud because if they allowed people to install it on their desktop, then well they might just hack it!  Oh noes!

    It's like cutting off your arm to save a finger.

    The reason they have always online is DRM.  That's it.  Every other explanation is a bunch of crap.

    Its people with your exact mentality thats the very reason. If people would just leave the game code alone and play the way it was intended.

    you cant be so naive to think it would stop at modding?? dude, what do you think DRM means and why its there?

    Mods are one thing, cheating is another. I'm sure at some point if blizzard thought modding would lend itself to the game, they would allow it. One only has to go to Curse Gaming site to see the many pages of mods for WoW. All with blizzard's blessing.

    DRM exists because companies are stuck in the 80s blame piracy for declining sales and refuse to change and look into real solution. It's people with your mentality that companies get away with this kind of crap. Crap that has been proven tie and time again to not work ever. It only delays the inevitable. DRM is in the same league as virii and malware in my book. Yet the customer has to pay the price for this crap over and over.

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Carlsbad, CAPosts: 655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by wrightstuf

    This whole arguement wether D3 should have a separate offline single player separate from online single player baffles me.

    Did it ever occur to you that Blizzard just does not want any cheating in their game whatsoever. sure, you could say..."hey, who cares if i hack, dupe, cheat. I'm being kept separate from the online community and no one else will see me. " Blizzard doesnt see it that way. They do not want that element in their game at all, simple as that. They have always strived for integrity in their games and I applaud them for doing what they can in D3.

    So, next time you get your "error 37,"  blame the fucking criminals, not blizzard.

     

    Criminals?  Really...criminals?

    So do you think that "GameGenie" should be considered contraband?  And anyone that enters console commands in Skyrim should be arrested?

    The fact that you think players using cheat codes who play single player only are somehow "criminals" is just...I don't really know what to say.

    Also...there still IS a way to get powerful items without actually playing the game to get them in D3 (cheating).  Except now, it costs real money, and that's really the whole point of this.

     

    I most certainly do. cheaters in computer games are no different than anywhere in society. the public needs to be protected from that bad element. they are "criminals" in the pure sense of the word. Not only should blizzard do whatever they can to protect their game and their players from it, they should not stop at bans. those criminals will just go find some other game to offend. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. these people are ruining it for everyone.

    If other games look the other way, then fine. thats their thing. Its not blizzard's and its not mine.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member
    Originally posted by cscurlock

    At the end of the day the complaining doesnt matter.  With the amount they have made off this I suspect most game companies will be following suit in the future.   I forsee most development studios all going this route. 

    Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Grand Theft Auto franchises will all probably do this for future single player experiences.  Your options will be deal with it or not be able tp play them. 

    Yep, that's my fear right there.  The stupidity won't stop with D3, but will begin seeping into other games as well.  The only thing that might prevent it is that when someone else tries it, they won't have the a legion of drones ready to support them the way Blizzard does.  Others might fail with the experiment because they will have to deal with gamers who will view it with a more discriminating eye.  Blizzard?  Not a concern.

  • Ashen_XAshen_X PLEASANT HILL, CAPosts: 363Member

    Whatever their reasons for taking this approach, Blizzard's insistance that one can only play even the single player option online means that some people will not buy the game. I know that I refuse to pay for a game that will not allow me to play single player off-line.

    I do find it odd that people who argue against those who would have liked a single-player offline option often speak of preferring multiplayer online play. The ability for someone else to play single player off-line would not affect them, and yet these posters oppose such. They are not arguing for something for themselves, they are just pushing to exclude others from the game.

    It would be like me saying that I do not like playing characters with armor, and so no one else should be allowed to do so. 

    When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  • ClerigoClerigo MatosinhosPosts: 400Member Common

    This is just a endless discussion where, im sad to say, players have no weight. Decisions were made to this game be playable in the way Blizzard wants. If people dont like it who is going to care? Players that do like it? Blizzard? Gaming websites?

    Im a big fan of Diablo, D2 not that much because of the problems that plagued it, many of them already mentioned in this topic, but i still enjoyed the experience.

    Ive decided not to buy D3 because of already mentioned issues, some of them i think are very controversial, in particular the RMAH, wich i think it stinks of "foulness".

    Im done with "buying a game and moan about it later" way. I now just dont buy a game if i feel something is not right. Later, and if i find the community view on a game is vastly positive i may try it...or not.

  • mklinicmklinic Pottstown, PAPosts: 1,435Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wrightstuf
    Originally posted by Creslin321 

    Criminals?  Really...criminals?

    So do you think that "GameGenie" should be considered contraband?  And anyone that enters console commands in Skyrim should be arrested?

    The fact that you think players using cheat codes who play single player only are somehow "criminals" is just...I don't really know what to say.

    Also...there still IS a way to get powerful items without actually playing the game to get them in D3 (cheating).  Except now, it costs real money, and that's really the whole point of this.

    I most certainly do. cheaters in computer games are no different than anywhere in society. the public needs to be protected from that bad element. they are "criminals" in the pure sense of the word. Not only should blizzard do whatever they can to protect their game and their players from it, they should not stop at bans. those criminals will just go find some other game to offend. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    If other games look the other way, then fine. thats their thing. Its not blizzard's and its not mine.

    Damn...guess I'll need to haul the wife off to the Police Station. She's been using cheat codes in Sims3 for the longest time never thinking of the consequences of her actions! Oh wait, there are no consequences of her actions in a single-player game and she is not a criminal for using these "cheats". In fact ,she has probably derived more enjoyment from the game then she would have without the cheats. This goes a lot further toward her intent to purchase expansions and such then if she had been forced to be online all the time. Really, calling people who use console commands, and other available tools, "criminals" is just a fine example of hyperbole.

    Now if you want to make a distinction between those scenarios Creslin321 listed and someone duping, speed-hacking, etc., in multi-player mode, then you're probably a bit closer, but criminal is still a stretch. Maybe we can settle on "EULA breakers". Doesn't sound as menacing though.

    Really, between Blizzard's Warden program, Creslin321's comment about offline-only characters, and various other ideas of a number of threads, any insistence on "online only" can only be attributed to a lack of imagination/motivation when it comes to facilitating offline play. 

    -mklinic

    "There's a point I think we're missing.
    It's in the air we raise our fists in."
    -from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Carlsbad, CAPosts: 655Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Connmacart
    Originally posted by wrightstuf
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Tsuru

    The whole point to online only is to prevent people from getting access to the code that allows creation of hacks and mods. It has nothing to do with taking characters online from single player. Everything your doing in the game is server side, you can't access it.

    And in my opinion that is the right step in making sure there are no hacks/mods.

     Oh no not mods!  Anything but that!  Mods have clearly never brought anything valuable to the game industry.

    And as for hacks...don't you think this seems like a bit erm...excessive solution?  It would be like Microsoft saying that you can only run Windows off the cloud because if they allowed people to install it on their desktop, then well they might just hack it!  Oh noes!

    It's like cutting off your arm to save a finger.

    The reason they have always online is DRM.  That's it.  Every other explanation is a bunch of crap.

    Its people with your exact mentality thats the very reason. If people would just leave the game code alone and play the way it was intended.

    you cant be so naive to think it would stop at modding?? dude, what do you think DRM means and why its there?

    Mods are one thing, cheating is another. I'm sure at some point if blizzard thought modding would lend itself to the game, they would allow it. One only has to go to Curse Gaming site to see the many pages of mods for WoW. All with blizzard's blessing.

    DRM exists because companies are stuck in the 80s blame piracy for declining sales and refuse to change and look into real solution. It's people with your mentality that companies get away with this kind of crap. Crap that has been proven tie and time again to not work ever. It only delays the inevitable. DRM is in the same league as virii and malware in my book. Yet the customer has to pay the price for this crap over and over.

    Blizzard has a real solution. If you have a better way of dealing with the lowlife criminals then lets hear it!

    I dont think you realize just how bad piracy affects the industry. I can remember when i use to layover in Hong Kong on my job years ago. I'd take a cab to the Gold Shopping Center, a huge computer shopping complex selling just computer related goods. In it, you would see stall after stall, row after row of pirated software for sale. All neatly displayed under flourescent lights! Games being the biggest seller. And guess which game i saw the most....you guessed it, Diablo I

  • dougmysticeydougmysticey Pflugerville, TXPosts: 1,176Member

    I don't care that it is on line. That is all fine. My only issue is that has not worked well. There has been downtime, lag, disconnects, and queues, like you would see in an MMO, but for a single player experience which is not acceptable. They fix that and I am all good with it being online.

    image

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member
    Originally posted by Aori

    Alright i'm going to start off by saying, my only intention of playing Diablo 3 is multiplayer. I find singleplayer games a waste of money for what I personally get out of them.

    Well since this is how you plan on playing I guess no one else matters.

    Online only doesn't really effect me, excpet when the gd servers are full/stop responding/crashing/etc., because I planned on playing online with friends but the whole online only is just silly.

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by TurkeyTurds

    Why not have a system that single player offline cannot just log online? Keep single player offline completly seperate from multiplayer online. Why is that so hard to do?

    Oh I know it is becau

    It's because they want all server code only on the servers.  That means they aren't on the disks and it's much harder to cheat in battle net by hacking and duping items.

    That makes no sense whatsoever. They would have absolute control over where code is executed for online play and where the data used for online play is stored depending upon the mode being played.

    Secure Play Mode: Execute sensitive code server side and use only data server side. Harder to hack , only availble online.

    Unsecure Play Mode: Execute sensitive code client side and use client side data storage. Easier to hack, but the players don't care because they are playing single player mode or with trusted freinds only. Don't need to worry about internet connectivity issues and you can support unsecured multiplayer through Peer to Peer, which would also provide for LAN play.

    No rocket science to the architecture design....just Blizzard doesn't want to do it.

    The only thing that makes hacking slightly more difficult under Blizzards proposed paradigm is that the hackers never have direct access to the binaries on the server to try to understand the code.....but frankly that's only a minor delay, because a good fraction of the time with this scale of  program, it's not the guy with the hex editor/decompiler combing through the binaries that is responsible for the reverse engineering....it's that the source code gets leaked from one of the bazillion contracters, sub-contracters and part-time outsourced laborers that had access to it......and it's not like Online Games, including ones produced by Blizzard have proven invulnerable to exploits.

    All Blizzard is really accomplishing here is causing an uneccessarly degraded experience for those not interested primarly in online multiplayer play with strangers. It's thier dime to waste.....but I certainly have no intention of supporting them with my patronage for that kind of scheme.

     

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wrightstuf
    Originally posted by Connmacart
    Originally posted by wrightstuf
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Tsuru

    The whole point to online only is to prevent people from getting access to the code that allows creation of hacks and mods. It has nothing to do with taking characters online from single player. Everything your doing in the game is server side, you can't access it.

    And in my opinion that is the right step in making sure there are no hacks/mods.

     Oh no not mods!  Anything but that!  Mods have clearly never brought anything valuable to the game industry.

    And as for hacks...don't you think this seems like a bit erm...excessive solution?  It would be like Microsoft saying that you can only run Windows off the cloud because if they allowed people to install it on their desktop, then well they might just hack it!  Oh noes!

    It's like cutting off your arm to save a finger.

    The reason they have always online is DRM.  That's it.  Every other explanation is a bunch of crap.

    Its people with your exact mentality thats the very reason. If people would just leave the game code alone and play the way it was intended.

    you cant be so naive to think it would stop at modding?? dude, what do you think DRM means and why its there?

    Mods are one thing, cheating is another. I'm sure at some point if blizzard thought modding would lend itself to the game, they would allow it. One only has to go to Curse Gaming site to see the many pages of mods for WoW. All with blizzard's blessing.

    DRM exists because companies are stuck in the 80s blame piracy for declining sales and refuse to change and look into real solution. It's people with your mentality that companies get away with this kind of crap. Crap that has been proven tie and time again to not work ever. It only delays the inevitable. DRM is in the same league as virii and malware in my book. Yet the customer has to pay the price for this crap over and over.

    Blizzard has a real solution. If you have a better way of dealing with the lowlife criminals then lets hear it!

    I dont think you realize just how bad piracy affects the industry. I can remember when i use to layover in Hong Kong on my job years ago. I'd take a cab to the Gold Shopping Center, a huge computer shopping complex selling just computer related goods. In it, you would see stall after stall, row after row of pirated software for sale. All neatly displayed under flourescent lights! Games being the biggest seller. And guess which game i saw the most....you guessed it, Diablo I

    Sorry, but just look at history. The entertainment industry has blamed piracy for lack of sales since forever. Oh noes tapes are ruining our sales. CDRs, DVDRs, The Internet. Hell the Printing Press would be blamed if companies back then would have had todays mentality. Condoning DRM is the same as allowing your house to be setup with cameras so the goverment can keep an eye on you to see if you do anything illegal. 

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I'm fine with the online only nature of the game. I understand why they did it. However, I think if they're going in that direction, they need to make the system work. 4 hours of downtime on launch day isn't really acceptable (but it'll get overlooked in the long run). If it happens two weeks after launch, the game will have a reputation as a bug infested mess and it'll hurt sales. Well, it'll hurt at least one sale (mine). I'm definitely buying TL2, but D3 is still a 'maybe' and the quality of the systems they have in place is going to be a big factor in whether I buy or not.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RoninOkamiRoninOkami Hazelwood, MOPosts: 14Member

    The only real thought i would have on this is " I just payed X dollars to rent diablo III til the servers die. Unlike 1 and 2 which i can play offline." Now most people don't think that would ever happen but yeah... i wouldn't put much faith into that...now if that gets patched in the future then.... meh.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    ... but D3 is still a 'maybe' and the quality of the systems they have in place is going to be a big factor in whether I buy or not.

     You aren't alone. Reason I have held off so far as well.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • PuremallacePuremallace Phoenix, AZPosts: 1,856Member

    There is no think. If there was a offline version of the game then I CAN PROMISE YOU I WOULD HAVE bootlegged it by now. As soon as there is a offline version which there will that is stable and not bug ridden I will download it.

     

    Diablo 3 is buy to play right now plain and simple.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    That makes no sense whatsoever. They would have absolute control over where code is executed for online play and where the data used for online play is stored depending upon the mode being played.

    Secure Play Mode: Execute sensitive code server side and use only data server side. Harder to hack , only availble online.

    Unsecure Play Mode: Execute sensitive code client side and use client side data storage. Easier to hack, but the players don't care because they are playing single player mode or with trusted freinds only. Don't need to worry about internet connectivity issues and you can support unsecured multiplayer through Peer to Peer, which would also provide for LAN play.

    No rocket science to the architecture design....just Blizzard doesn't want to do it.

    The only thing that makes hacking slightly more difficult under Blizzards proposed paradigm is that the hackers never have direct access to the binaries on the server to try to understand the code.....but frankly that's only a minor delay, because a good fraction of the time with this scale of  program, it's not the guy with the hex editor/decompiler combing through the binaries that is responsible for the reverse engineering....it's that the source code gets leaked from one of the bazillion contracters, sub-contracters and part-time outsourced laborers that had access to it......and it's not like Online Games, including ones produced by Blizzard have proven invulnerable to exploits.

    All Blizzard is really accomplishing here is causing an uneccessarly degraded experience for those not interested primarly in online multiplayer play with strangers. It's thier dime to waste.....but I certainly have no intention of supporting them with my patronage for that kind of scheme.

     

    The problem in your logic is assuming that there will be no changes after the leaks in "teh codez" so that reverse engineering the leak is useless.

    The experience from HEAVILY hacked games shows that the delay between a version coming out and it being hacked can be as low as hours and only regular changes are really effective, IF you want to keep a free trade system (the majority of items being tradeable) alive. (I am quite interested in how will blizz deal with this, money is a powerful motivation)

    Those updates are simply more effective if you dont download the whole system with them.

    As for degraded experience, a week from now noone will remember, like noone remembers cata launch or aq or rift "security" (twice, actually).

    What we can really talk about, is if the whole ordeal was really necessary and if a "divided approach", costing ofc more resources, keeping the singleplayer and multiplayer gaming separate AND different, would be better.

    Flame on!

    :)

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon

    After so many people being stuck at the log in screen because of the only online thing, I bet the question on eveyones mind is, which log in screen is better? D3 or GW2 one?

  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    It is amusing that if you reread this and other threads, you find a lot of people who support illegal activities and that is the underlying angst amongst them.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Aori

    It is amusing that if you reread this and other threads, you find a lot of people who support illegal activities and that is the underlying angst amongst them.

     You also find people who think that using a cheat code in a game is "criminal..."  But that's neither here nor there ;).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Aori

    It is amusing that if you reread this and other threads, you find a lot of people who support illegal activities and that is the underlying angst amongst them.

    Actually I think it is much more amusing to see posters that have blasted games on other forums and antagonize their fans getting so bent out of shape over this.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

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