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Looks Like 38 Studios is Close to Bankruptcy

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  • greyed-outgreyed-out buttercupsville, OKPosts: 99Member
    Originally posted by kokopuff
    Originally posted by bartoni33
    Originally posted by kokopuff
    Game is complete vaporware. Source:I work in the building they rented from. empty empty space

    Game exists. I played it. Emply office might equal just a mailing address as opposed to a PO box.

    KoA only sold 300k or whatever amount because it was overpriced. They priced themselves out of the running. $60 is crazy talk for this and most games. Worth half that maybe.

    38 studios did not develop KoA, they bought another dev company and had them change their game they were working on. The mmo they were supposedly making is vaporware, they rented 6 floors of the building I'm in and four of them had no one in them ever.

    38 Studios have had staffing problems, and are missing their job-creation milestones for several reasons including budgetary and the fact that the area is not a game or software development hub of any sort.  The game may be behind schedule, and over budget, but the game is not vaporware.  If it were, then the Rhode Island EDC, Pricewaterhousecoopers, IBM, and Standard & Poor's are all complicit in a conspiracy to defraud the public as they have all vetted and audited 38 Studios.  Well now that I think about it, that is probably the norm for modern business.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    Getting 120 hours out of a game doesn't make it worth $60 if the whole ride is mediocre at best. Whoever thought that many "kill x quests" belongs in a single-player game deserves to have this kind of failure placed squarely on their shoulders. It's not even acceptable in an MMO these days, but a single player? Come on, now. A single-player RPG is a chance for a game to shine, a chance for the player to evolve and change the world in ways you can't in an MMO without ruining the chance for others to participate. 

    So no, no shock to me the game failed. I actually liked the combat, I liked the aesthetic too, as well as the character development. But the storyline was incredibly cliche, and the rest of the game lacked effort in its conception, as if they were working the animators and modelers so hard they forgot to make the writers and designers do their part, too.

    It's sad when games and studios fail, but I still maintain that pain and loss are the best way to learn a lesson. The more of these stories their are, hopefully the sooner studios will learn that you can't just churn out a bogus game for a quick cash grab. 

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    update

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/16/no-relief-in-sight-for-38-studios-after-emergency-meeting/

    Joystiq reports that "it appears 38 Studios put up all present and future IP by the company as collateral," meaning that if the studio defaults, the state of Rhode Island will own all of its game assets

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    update

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/16/no-relief-in-sight-for-38-studios-after-emergency-meeting/

    Joystiq reports that "it appears 38 Studios put up all present and future IP by the company as collateral," meaning that if the studio defaults, the state of Rhode Island will own all of its game assets

    Yep, just what I figured. 38 will end up dissolved.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Well with the mediocre reception of Amular and the stated direction they wanted to take there MMO this was kind of expected. Interest died in the games and the company fast.

    Amular (While in my opinion was good) did little to show off the power house talent they had.

    Ken Rolsten - Amular had no large sandbox world, it was more of a hack and slash themepark.

    R. A. Salvatore - With the story and the quests and such the way they were it was hard to believe that Salvatore was even part of this.

    Todd McFarlane - It simply was hard to see his influence in the game as much of the art and graphics seemed to be designed with WoW in mind.

     

    The news about a less action oriented combat system for the MMO and no sandbox kind of killed much of the hype.

    You put a team like this together there will be certain expectations.

    After Amular it was clear that this team would never deliver on the expectations, it was sadly destined to fail.

  • eyceleycel rolling hillz, PAPosts: 1,334Member

    Im on KoA forums quite often, my understanding was that there were in the range of 330k box sales, digital sales exceeded 1 million and that the overall sensus was that KoA was a sucess in the eyes of the forum dwellers. 

    I really love KoA, although I definitely didnt love the camera they used.  If only they had a normal mmo camera instead of the crap one that has to constantly follow you.  I really loved the art style and the game world it self was interesting given the cirumstances as a single player game. 

    KoA was inteded to be a mmorpg from my understanding, that was made into a single player game. I realize they want to make a mmo with 38 stuidios to so im not confusing the two.

    I really hope 38 stuidos can pull off there mmo though, cause the little of KoA I played I enjoyed very much.

    image

  • ShojuShoju Hicksville, NYPosts: 771Member Uncommon

    Curt was looking a bit frazzled while running the media gauntlet.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BZ_6PkeO_g8

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member

    Funny how Schilling has always stated he's against government in business and especially government bailouts, yet he's looking for R.I.'s government to bail his company out.

    Dude is a hypocritical joke.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • RaventhallRaventhall Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 2Member

    The game is not bad.  My ex is way into it more so than the sims.

     

    Its like a combination of WoW, Fable, Skyrim or Elder Scrolls.  To me the story is kind of dry with no humor nor engaging though.  

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member

    I'm not really surprised that it didn't sell that well to be honest. If there was any marketing for it I didn't see it. Rented it on the fly and found it to be fun at first but quickly became very boring. The fact that the game was a single player mmo with all of the mmo standard quest mechanics thrown in didn't help matters.

    As others have said, in a single player game you want to affect the world in a very real way that is not possible with MMO's taking into account other players considerations. The game just came off as a rather strange mix as a result.

    There are things I loved in the game of course. The inventory management was one of the best I've seen (flagging items as junk and selling all junk in one quick swoop) and would love to see that replicated in a future mmo. However there was just nothing interesting in the game to keep me playing. Made it to the big tree city then lost all desire to go any further.

    It's a shame as they could have done so much more with the game had they not decided to go down the single player mmo route. It could have been quite epic. :/

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    I laugh at this they think with there arrogance they could beat Skyrim but bring a shitgame on market that can go straight into the trashcan hehe.

    Big names will not always guarenteed succes.

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon

    Originally I had hopes for 38 Studios but recent interviews made it apparent they lacked any real vision which I think is necessary for a studio to really make a name for itself.

    Yes, I know Trion managed to be successful (to a degree) by sticking pretty much with the tried and true, but expectations were low for them, this team people were expecting something grand and I don't think it was going to happen.

    It's a black eye on the game development community overall and will make funding of future titles more challenging in some situations, and of course, in the end there's people who will lose their jobs in all this. (and after being relocated to RI, eww) image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • madnosmadnos maynard, MAPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Funny how Schilling has always stated he's against government in business and especially government bailouts, yet he's looking for R.I.'s government to bail his company out.

    Dude is a hypocritical joke.

    Exactly this...   

    (this kinda reminds of people who hate cops ,politicians, etc.. They will say they hate them , give them   no respect and so forth. But when the shit hits the fan and the focus is on them ,their the first ones to run to these people for help.)

     

    38 Studio was about a 2 minute walk from me ,when they were located in Maynard ,MA. (same building as Monster.com).

    Schilling put about 30 mil of his own money into the studio.

    He moved to R.I. ,on a 75 mil dollar public loan.

    The studio said they would have roughly 400 new job openings.

    May 1 ,they defaulted on their first loan payment of 1.1 mil dollars. (which Schilling probably has laying around in one of his old bloody socks).

     

    R.I. has a  history of making bad business decisions. And now if they dont come up with a solution the public is on the hook for the loan..

    All I can say is I'm glad it's R.I. problem, and not ours .

     

     

     

  • monarc333monarc333 New York, NYPosts: 611Member Uncommon

    SHould have released the mmo first not the single player. I think they thought their game was so amazing people would have to buy the mmo. At least releasing the mmo, even if it sucked, they still woudl have brought in a shitton of money upfront. Poor business sense or just incredbly aggrogant.

  • greyed-outgreyed-out buttercupsville, OKPosts: 99Member
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

    I laugh at this they think with there arrogance they could beat Skyrim but bring a shitgame on market that can go straight into the trashcan hehe.

    Big names will not always guarenteed succes.

     

    Don't forget WoW; they thought they could take on and beat WoW, too.

     

    In hindsight, I really believe the purchase of BHG and the making of the single player RPG really hurt them.  Well that, and apparently they have executive mismanagement as they blew through 48 million bucks in under two years with the MMO still nowhere near finished.  The CEO even went on maternity leave.  Is there even a captain at the helm over there?

     

    Todd McFarlane had mentioned in an interview when Curt bought that studio that he told him that he had just doubled-down on his bet.  How true.  From some of the comments made over the year, it looks like Curt & BHG really thought they had a Game of the Year contender that would sell millions.  Amalur is certainly not a bad game, but its far from great either with many broken systems.  And mind boggingly, BHG still refuses to patch it.  That really speaks volumes about a company.

  • greyed-outgreyed-out buttercupsville, OKPosts: 99Member
    Originally posted by monarc333

    SHould have released the mmo first not the single player. I think they thought their game was so amazing people would have to buy the mmo. At least releasing the mmo, even if it sucked, they still woudl have brought in a shitton of money upfront. Poor business sense or just incredbly aggrogant.

    I agree, buying out BHG and releasing the single player has done nothing but hurt them.  It didn't build up a community, it hasn't helped in marketing, it has only burdened them.

     

    Getting the MMO out the door should have been their only priority.  If it was even halfway a solid game, wow-clone or not, they would have recouped their development costs at least in box sales.  Long term subs are a different story, but these days, enough people try and buy new mmo's for it to at least have had a chance.

  • ShojuShoju Hicksville, NYPosts: 771Member Uncommon

    How long until we see a 38 Studios Kickstart push? 

    Surely there has to be enough desparate fanboys out there that would be willing to throw $1.125 million dollars down the drain to help Curt out.

  • madnosmadnos maynard, MAPosts: 84Member

    Update as of today.

    Well according to FOX25 News.

    It looks like 38 Studios brought a check for the 1.1 mil. dollars to the state of R.I.........BUT ,  when they gave them the check they said their was no money to cover it.

    Why would they do that ?

    One thought is : Is this some kind of legal thing ?   They can now say , at least we  attempted to pay it ?

    Dunno , this is kind of a strange thing to do.

    (btw, R.I. gave the check back to them......lmao)

     

    Also it seems that  ,38 studio employees will not be getting a paycheck for this weeks work.

    I think 38 Studios future is on really shaky groud...

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by madnos

    Update as of today.

    Well according to FOX25 News.

    It looks like 38 Studios brought a check for the 1.1 mil. dollars to the state of R.I.........BUT ,  when they gave them the check they said their was no money to cover it.

    Why would they do that ?

    One thought is : Is this some kind of legal thing ?   They can now say , at least we  attempted to pay it ?

    Dunno , this is kind of a strange thing to do.

    (btw, R.I. gave the check back to them......lmao)

     

    Also it seems that  ,38 studio employees will not be getting a paycheck for this weeks work.

    I think 38 Studios future is on really shaky groud...

     

    Unless a miracle happens in the next few days their doors will be shuttered before month's end.  No pay, no employees, no company then.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • kantseemekantseeme millville, NJPosts: 709Member

    http://www2.turnto10.com/business/2012/may/17/28/stokes-reportedly-resigns-edc-ar-1039299/

     

    What a shame this is. was very hopfull for 38 and what was to come. dont know how there ganna get out of this one.

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Fresno, CAPosts: 2,414Member
    Originally posted by kantseeme

    http://www2.turnto10.com/business/2012/may/17/28/stokes-reportedly-resigns-edc-ar-1039299/

     

    What a shame this is. was very hopfull for 38 and what was to come. dont know how there ganna get out of this one.

    Personally, if I was the Governor of R.I., I'd call Schilling to my office and tell him the following:

    "The person who knowingly give a check for $1.1 million dollars with full knowledge that it was worth less than the paper it was written on is either a.) a complete and total idiot or b.) an arrogant ass who doesn't take his debt to Rhode Island taxpayers seriously. Which one are you, Mr. Schilling?"

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,477Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally I had hopes for 38 Studios but recent interviews made it apparent they lacked any real vision which I think is necessary for a studio to really make a name for itself.

    Yes, I know Trion managed to be successful (to a degree) by sticking pretty much with the tried and true, but expectations were low for them, this team people were expecting something grand and I don't think it was going to happen.

    It's a black eye on the game development community overall and will make funding of future titles more challenging in some situations, and of course, in the end there's people who will lose their jobs in all this. (and after being relocated to RI, eww) image

    It could be a blck eye but on the investors for not doing their due diligence on the business plan.

    It's better for it to fail now than after the game releases.  It can be blamed on poor planning rather than say the mmorpg business is a bad place to invest.

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Posts: 1,606Member Uncommon

    Oh well, it's probably just as well if they crash and burn now rather than later.

    On the one hand I can feel sympathy for them as fellow human beings but on the other hand the best we could have hoped for from them was yet another rehash of the standard themepark model.  The same ol' same ol' that's been played out for years now already.

     

  • greyed-outgreyed-out buttercupsville, OKPosts: 99Member
    Originally posted by madnos

    Update as of today.

    Well according to FOX25 News.

    It looks like 38 Studios brought a check for the 1.1 mil. dollars to the state of R.I.........BUT ,  when they gave them the check they said their was no money to cover it.

    Why would they do that ?

    One thought is : Is this some kind of legal thing ?   They can now say , at least we  attempted to pay it ?

    Dunno , this is kind of a strange thing to do.

    (btw, R.I. gave the check back to them......lmao)

     

    Also it seems that  ,38 studio employees will not be getting a paycheck for this weeks work.

    I think 38 Studios future is on really shaky groud...

     


    One of tha additional sources of aid that they are seeking from the State is R.I. Film Tax Credits.  However, they are not eligible for them while in default.  Once compliant by making their payment, they will be eligible for them again.  This is why they have opted to pay the State and not their employees, as they at least have a chance by doing so.

     

    As far as the bounced check, almost certainly what happened is they got some money wired into the account but it was not available in time like they were hoping.  It took it overnight for it to clear, and thus they were able to pay the State the 1.125 this morning.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    related to last post

     

    Schilling’s firm may get more aid

    http://www.boston.com/businessupdates/2012/05/18/facebook-curt-schilling-denies-paid-himself-back-with-money-thanks-supporters-ailing-studios-video-game-company/cfmCzT1AuMiqH1Nx0WlJuM/story.html

    Chafee said 38 Studios did make the $1.1 million payment on Friday, potentially clearing the way for the firm to receive millions of dollars in additional aid under the state’s film tax credit program, which is open to video game companies.

    Under the program, video game companies can seek reimbursement for up to one-quarter of their expenses in the form of state tax credits, which companies can then sell to other firms for cash. Chafee indicated the company appears to be eligible for $2.1 million in tax credits for 2011.

    On Friday, 38 Studios applied for an additional $6.5 million in tax credits for the same year, which the state is now reviewing. The company has also indicated it may seek another $12 million in state tax credits for the year 2012.

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