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Guardian gameplay options

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

Just wondering if anyone did create a DPS based guardian? and how well did it work?

 

I just loved the Guardian gameplay in PvE, but in WvWvW keep taking, with all the long range AoE spells keeping things at range i felt a little lost. Now i do understand how the class is great at defense and espescially defending siege weapons, But did anyone find out how to fit intoo a more offensive role? 

 

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

Comments

  • HeadBytorHeadBytor F, ALPosts: 93Member

    Greatsword. It messes people up :) the spirit hammer as a 'pet' actually was helpfull as well, even though it was only alive for 15 seconds. It's final attack knocked people down, which was good for getting away or chasing people down. I didn't try to make enough time to play with the great sword, but the hours I did showed that guardians could easily switch to offense and still be able to heal themselves a bit.

  • Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

  • SenjinnSenjinn Depere, WIPosts: 187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

    That video is showing Structured pvp and i believe the OP's worry (like mine) has to do with WvW ranged fighting. Structured is completely different from WvW. In Structured you fight close quarters mostly and with limited people. WvW is much larger and almost exclusively faught at 1200 range. Guardian lacks 1200 range dps skills. I think they only have 1 which is the 2nd skill on staff. Even the 1st ability on scepter which is 900 can't be used in keep fights because it travels on the ground and wont hit people on walls. I loved guardian in pve also but switched to necro for WvW because of the range problems. I really hope they do something about it.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Senjinn
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

    That video is showing Structured pvp and i believe the OP's worry (like mine) has to do with WvW ranged fighting. Structured is completely different from WvW. In Structured you fight close quarters mostly and with limited people. WvW is much larger and almost exclusively faught at 1200 range. Guardian lacks 1200 range dps skills. I think they only have 1 which is the 2nd skill on staff. Even the 1st ability on scepter which is 900 can't be used in keep fights because it travels on the ground and wont hit people on walls. I loved guardian in pve also but switched to necro for WvW because of the range problems. I really hope they do something about it.


    Yes thats probably my major worry, knowing that i will spend a lot of time in WvWvW,

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • dreldrel san francisco, CAPosts: 918Member

    I still think the ranged characters have the advantage to melee.  Melee does well once equipted with ranged weapons.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Senjinn
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

    That video is showing Structured pvp and i believe the OP's worry (like mine) has to do with WvW ranged fighting. Structured is completely different from WvW. In Structured you fight close quarters mostly and with limited people. WvW is much larger and almost exclusively faught at 1200 range. Guardian lacks 1200 range dps skills. I think they only have 1 which is the 2nd skill on staff. Even the 1st ability on scepter which is 900 can't be used in keep fights because it travels on the ground and wont hit people on walls. I loved guardian in pve also but switched to necro for WvW because of the range problems. I really hope they do something about it.

    Yea unfortunetly I dont see a DPS role for guardians in WvW thats why its been crossed off my list of classes to test during BWE's.  you're right as far as PvE and Structured its pretty good but since I have ZERO desire to ever do structured PvP.  (like I might as well stuck it out in WoW/Rift/TOR dont even get me started on how much I detest battleground PvP and why its ruined the genre)

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  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member
    Originally posted by Senjinn
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

    That video is showing Structured pvp and i believe the OP's worry (like mine) has to do with WvW ranged fighting. Structured is completely different from WvW. In Structured you fight close quarters mostly and with limited people. WvW is much larger and almost exclusively faught at 1200 range. Guardian lacks 1200 range dps skills. I think they only have 1 which is the 2nd skill on staff. Even the 1st ability on scepter which is 900 can't be used in keep fights because it travels on the ground and wont hit people on walls. I loved guardian in pve also but switched to necro for WvW because of the range problems. I really hope they do something about it.

    There is more small range PvP in WvWvW then you think there is many small outpost there are equally importend to fight over and many chases and group fights in field specially when game launches you will see over time more and more fights all around not on attacking keeps.

    I say give it all some more time learn your classes only 3 days of gameplay is way to short to judge witch ones are viable for WvWvW i think all have there pro's and con's but im willing to learn and invest in my characters, are you guys also willing to invest or want instant uberness?

  • I don't agree that WvW is almost exclusively 1200.  If you ahven't found a way to make not that way with a class like Theif or Mesmer though you probably might as well give up on guardian.

     

    I was able to WvW at ranges significantly closer than 1200 on a mesmer and I think it can be done on a guardian as well.  But it would be challenging.

     

    Obviously certain cases you need 1200 like when you are on top of the wall.  But if you are never sallying forth you may not be good at WvW.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Just wondering if anyone did create a DPS based guardian? and how well did it work?

    I just loved the Guardian gameplay in PvE, but in WvWvW keep taking, with all the long range AoE spells keeping things at range i felt a little lost. Now i do understand how the class is great at defense and espescially defending siege weapons, But did anyone find out how to fit intoo a more offensive role? 

    Google is your friend, but yes, people have made a few different DPS guardian builds. Some center around spectral weapons. Some center around a sword / torch combo (teleport / burning). The guardian isn't a very strong range class, tbh. It's one of the only classes in the game that suffers from this. They are very good at gap closing, though. However, the subject of melee vs. ranged in WvW has been beaten to death, revived, and then beaten to death again.

    You don't need to fight in WvW like a mexican standoff (standing back and flinging projectiles). However, most people do that, because it's obvious, and it's easy. If you want to help out w/ those fights, then I'd suggest doing what the guardian does best, lay down some ranged support. They have tons of that, and deflecting enemy ranged attacks is just as good as sitting back spamming meteor shower.

    As a guardian, if you plan on doing a lot of WvW, I'd suggest trying out the following playstyles:

    1) group support / melee build. Leading charges, laying down boons, shields, etc, is very useful in WvW.

    2) skirmisher: avoid the main assaults until the gates are down. Take out enemy supply lines / flank stragglers, etc.

    3) infiltrate: Some keeps you can actually get up onto the walls before they come down. Or, you can knock people down off the walls, putting them within melee range of your attacks.

    If none of the above playstyles suit you, then I'd suggest either finding a decent group to run w/ (coordinate is key), or maybe checking out one of the other classes. Also, don't forget the importance of siege equipment. If you find a lot of ranged fights forming, buying some arrow carts may not be a bad idea. A kill is a kill, regardless of whether you use your weapons or a siege cannon to get it.

    - Just a side note: This game is all about figuring things out for yourself. If the obvious choice doesn't seem to work, try looking around for a solution you may not have thought about. The sooner you start thinking that way, the more of an advantage you'll have in the game. There will still be a lot of people who don't do that, but they will mostly end up as fodder in PvP.

  • SenjinnSenjinn Depere, WIPosts: 187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower
    Originally posted by Senjinn
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

    That video is showing Structured pvp and i believe the OP's worry (like mine) has to do with WvW ranged fighting. Structured is completely different from WvW. In Structured you fight close quarters mostly and with limited people. WvW is much larger and almost exclusively faught at 1200 range. Guardian lacks 1200 range dps skills. I think they only have 1 which is the 2nd skill on staff. Even the 1st ability on scepter which is 900 can't be used in keep fights because it travels on the ground and wont hit people on walls. I loved guardian in pve also but switched to necro for WvW because of the range problems. I really hope they do something about it.

    There is more small range PvP in WvWvW then you think there is many small outpost there are equally importend to fight over and many chases and group fights in field specially when game launches you will see over time more and more fights all around not on attacking keeps.

    I say give it all some more time learn your classes only 3 days of gameplay is way to short to judge witch ones are viable for WvWvW i think all have there pro's and con's but im willing to learn and invest in my characters, are you guys also willing to invest or want instant uberness?

    I know there are smaller objective but why should you feel obligated to only do those because your class lacks the tools to compete in everything? I'm not asking for instant uberness i'm asking for the tools to compete offensively in every aspect of WvW, not just sit next to seige weapon and guard it while everyone else gets to fight.

  • Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Senjinn
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Well if you look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vFlHMNZ4V8&feature=related

     

    You can see a guardian running an "iron man" type build.  But he has staff and GS going.  So while he isn't bam headshotting people he is still capable of putting out nice damage and alot of aoe.  But its not a DPS build of course

     

    The thing with guardian is they don't that many movement abilities and the some of the ones they do have work on others more than themselves.  GS does have the leap but its not like a theif or mesmer where they can do a number of leaps/teleports consecutively.

     

    So once you do leap you need something to keep going.  I believe that guy had the traits that let you heal on GS attacks.  I susspect the traits line that lets you blind ppl is nice.  Also that wall that enemies can't pass is nice for stopping people from running (or the hammer field).

    Basically Guardian can use walls and iron man tactics to kill and keep someone around whereas other classes might use cripples and swiftness/leaps.

    I saw a guy using the hammer to good effect with that field that keep ppl in and out.

     

    Maybe some sort of GS/hammer hybrid dps/iron man + condition build.

    That video is showing Structured pvp and i believe the OP's worry (like mine) has to do with WvW ranged fighting. Structured is completely different from WvW. In Structured you fight close quarters mostly and with limited people. WvW is much larger and almost exclusively faught at 1200 range. Guardian lacks 1200 range dps skills. I think they only have 1 which is the 2nd skill on staff. Even the 1st ability on scepter which is 900 can't be used in keep fights because it travels on the ground and wont hit people on walls. I loved guardian in pve also but switched to necro for WvW because of the range problems. I really hope they do something about it.

    Yea unfortunetly I dont see a DPS role for guardians in WvW thats why its been crossed off my list of classes to test during BWE's.  you're right as far as PvE and Structured its pretty good but since I have ZERO desire to ever do structured PvP.  (like I might as well stuck it out in WoW/Rift/TOR dont even get me started on how much I detest battleground PvP and why its ruined the genre)

    The guy in that video had 20k life.  When he used his elite he had 36k that he could use a heal to replenish to full.  And quite a bit of AoE to go with it as well.  And various other healing. And a shield that completely blocked all projectiles

    It took many multiples of people beating on him for minutes to go down.

     

    I am sorry but if one can't do something with that in conjunction with a few other people in WvW then there is a problem with the players.

     

    You seriously think 10 people with a build like that can't march into a zerg and start putting out some serious AoE damage on them?   I bet they could do nasty things things to glass cannon "I am only good at 1200 feet" jobbers.

    I was wrecking the max range jobbers with just a small amount of decent skirmishing right in front of the gates of a keep..

     

    Most of those people do AoE from max range.  That is a TERRIBLE spike its complete ass.  People don't go down as fast as you think when they skirmish well.

     

    But by all means keep trying that weak tactic see what happens when you get flanked and completely wrecked by better tactics and you are sitting on the ground wonder why you did 1/4 of the damage in twice the time to a team 1/4 your size that just leveled you as it came around a corner or got portaled in by a mesmer.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    I don't agree that WvW is almost exclusively 1200.  If you ahven't found a way to make not that way with a class like Theif or Mesmer though you probably might as well give up on guardian.

    I was able to WvW at ranges significantly closer than 1200 on a mesmer and I think it can be done on a guardian as well.  But it would be challenging.

    Obviously certain cases you need 1200 like when you are on top of the wall.  But if you are never sallying forth you may not be good at WvW.

    I can actually attest to this. Thief & mesmer specifically are great for this. I spent most of my time in WvW fighting in melee. I switched to ranged every now and then to keep the enemy at a distance while my group re-grouped, but that was about it.

    - In an open field. He who knows how to charge effectively is king. Learn how, and when to charge, and you will be whiping the floor w/ dead enemies.

    - In a tight skirmish: This should be a no-brainer. It should go w/ out saying that if you can't melee in a small skirmish situation then you either need A TON of practice, but you may want to consider avoiding melee for a while until you get better at the game.

    - In a keep siege: There are quite a few different things to do when attacking a keep. Pounding on the gate isn't the only thing to be done, and in some cases it's not even necessary (sometimes it's better to just blow up one of the walls and ignore the gate completely). You can also pull people off the walls, teleport over the walls (my personal favorite), scout, cut-off enemy reinforcements, stop enemy supply lines, build siege equipment, etc. You have options. Everyone is focused on the gate. That's what 99% of the players expect. So, surprise surprise, if you only go after the gate, you are going to always be met with the greatest part of the enemy forces. If you flank them (unless they are a very coordinated group) I guaruntee they will not expect it, and you will be able to kill quite a few players that way if you are skilled.

    Personally, I love encountering players who only know how to pvp @ 1200 range. It's so easy to close that gap that they always freak out when you're in their face, and they generally go down w/ out much trouble. It's the players that are consistantly going in & out of close - long range that are the most difficult.

  • Ok it seems like people just don't get this.

     

    1) get a nasty melee spike group going, with a guardian or two for support and DPS

    2) find a mesmer tell him to have his Invis and his portal and possibly even the invis field as well

    3) have him make a portal somewhere no one can see you

    4) have him stealth up to a zerg and place the exit portal

    5) step in portal and wreck shit as the 1200 jobbers can't do jack to you and you do far more damage with far more control.  Guardian uses GS pull so people get nice and tighly bunched.  Other guardian use hamer field to keep em in.  Rest slice and dice.  You kill tons of them in under a minute.

    6) if you want, have another mesmer or the same one setup anoter set of portals for a quick retreat.  Or just have a mesmer cast group invis and get away.

     

     

    You think 1200 range is that powerful?  You are wrong.  Dead wrong.  Its advantage is easily negated.  And escpaes are not that hard to come by with a little planning.

     

    Of course if you are looking to be some badass soloist in WvW well tough.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Just wondering if anyone did create a DPS based guardian? and how well did it work?

     

    I just loved the Guardian gameplay in PvE, but in WvWvW keep taking, with all the long range AoE spells keeping things at range i felt a little lost. Now i do understand how the class is great at defense and espescially defending siege weapons, But did anyone find out how to fit intoo a more offensive role? 

     

     

    I've played guardian and it was only DPS for PVP and WvWvW... It was op :D You can crush your opponents from distance as well as you can from close range, it's totaly irrelevant if it's a close or ranged combat, you can kick some ass if you set your utility spells correctly ofc. :)

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  • SenjinnSenjinn Depere, WIPosts: 187Member Uncommon

    I think we're just seeing different types of players here. I kinda chuckled when i read the comment about having 10 melee all attack together. My experience in WvW was never that coordinated. My experience consisted of a large amount of ungroup people running around taking keeps. We always had the numbers though, so there was very little open field fighting. The other teams would run back to a keep and there is where the fighting would be. When trying to take a keep as a guardian i felt i wasn't very effective but as a necro i was. Then once we took everything on the map the fight would end up at the gate of an opposing player. This is where you will really get bored. you cannot get in range to melee, getting too close to thier gate is instant death. Staying max distance is a must.

     

    Now as they balance WvW servers more maybe the problem wont arise as much but still i'm not seeing the reason not to give guardian this option? What exactly is it they have over other classes that makes it so they shouldn't have this option? I'm not asking for some overpowered high damage 1200 attack. I'd just like the same ranged options all the other classes get.

     Letting me use Flashing blade to teleport on walls to fight would work too! but thats probably not gonna happen. image

  • oafuapeoafuape Fredericksburg, PAPosts: 34Member
    I went great sword and sepcter/torch for dps with my traits focusing on increasing the damage of my fire condition. It works pretty well for me when I go septer/torch primary for long range and then when the enemy comes close I switch to great sword for massive aoe damage
  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member

    To the folks complaining about 1200m glass cannons.

    To the folks saying a health-specced guardian spamming self-heals while aoeing is immortal.

    You forget something. Something this game keeps trying to make us remember.

     

    Control. Control. Control. 

     

    Lock em down. Stun em. Knowck em around. Cripple em. Dot the heck outta em. Immobilize. Blind. REFLECT. There's a thousand tricks you can come up with in this game to mess with people. A lot of the really great pvp builds I'm seeing aren't from people with high burst; they're from people that know how to control a battlefield and how to deal with the control/status effects others might use on them.

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