Soo wait, a character remodel/gender change/race change should be included with the subsription? Also some fancy outrageous weapon skins, that only apply over a weapon you already have is a horrible cash shop? Yes this is all stuff that completely changes how people play the game.These aren't even "conveniance" items that make playing through easier/faster. Last time I checked most MMOs have some sort of character remodel feature that costs real money. Seriously!
Soo wait, a character remodel/gender change/race change should be included with the subsription? Also some fancy outrageous weapon skins, that only apply over a weapon you already have is a horrible cash shop? Yes this is all stuff that completely changes how people play the game.These aren't even "conveniance" items that make playing through easier/faster. Last time I checked most MMOs have some sort of character remodel feature that costs real money. Seriously!
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by ZadawnOriginally posted by BarCrowI know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
It is absolutely not a good analogy. Food cost money. It then costs money to ship, then to prepare. It costs money to have employees prepare and serve, then clean up afterwards.
Souvenirs cost money to manufacture, shop warehouse and stock, Someone has to keep inventory etc.
In contrast, Anarchy Online has a player who volunteered to recreate inventory icons for many items in the game. That was one person in spare time. I think 15/mo could cover modding a few meshes.
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?
Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Soo wait, a character remodel/gender change/race change should be included with the subsription? Also some fancy outrageous weapon skins, that only apply over a weapon you already have is a horrible cash shop? Yes this is all stuff that completely changes how people play the game.These aren't even "conveniance" items that make playing through easier/faster. Last time I checked most MMOs have some sort of character remodel feature that costs real money. Seriously!
remodal chars, change name, server tranfer, etc are like small services.
A weapon skin is not a service, its a item. And in p2p model, we should have acess to all itens without paying extra money.
But this is only my opinion, not a gamebreaker for now, but can be just the beggining of a long path.
Soo wait, a character remodel/gender change/race change should be included with the subsription? Also some fancy outrageous weapon skins, that only apply over a weapon you already have is a horrible cash shop? Yes this is all stuff that completely changes how people play the game.These aren't even "conveniance" items that make playing through easier/faster. Last time I checked most MMOs have some sort of character remodel feature that costs real money. Seriously!
Included indeed or not available at all.
Love how everyone throwing a fit over these thing, same things WoW has for years, race change, server change, faction change. Yet when Tera have it everyone throws a fit like its never happened before.
Originally posted by BarCrowI know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
It is absolutely not a good analogy. Food cost money. It then costs money to ship, then to prepare. It costs money to have employees prepare and serve, then clean up afterwards.
Souvenirs cost money to manufacture, shop warehouse and stock, Someone has to keep inventory etc.
In contrast, Anarchy Online has a player who volunteered to recreate inventory icons for many items in the game. That was one person in spare time. I think 15/mo could cover modding a few meshes.
You are over thinking this and have lost the forest for the trees, probably better to return to the OP.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's a slippery slope argument. It's easy to say, "So what? I don't care about it, so it doesn't matter." But aesthetics do matter to a segment of the playerbase, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them. For those people, charging extra for aesthetics means their subscription is giving them less than it used to. What if those people said, "I don't care about pvp, let them sell +stat pvp gear," or pvpers said "I don't care about raiding, let them sell +stat raid gear." Every part of the game matters to someone; the second you start charging micro-payments on top of subscriptions, somebody's getting screwed. If it's not you, great, but history indicates that they'll come for you eventually.
That's a slippery slope argument. It's easy to say, "So what? I don't care about it, so it doesn't matter." But aesthetics do matter to a segment of the playerbase, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them. For those people, charging extra for aestetics means their subscription is giving them less than it used to. What if those people said, "I don't care about pvp, let them sell +stat pvp gear," or pvpers said "I don't care about raiding, let them sell +stat raid gear." Every part of the game matters to someone; the second you start charging micro-payments on top of subscriptions, somebody's getting screwed. If it's not you, great, but history indicates that they'll come for you eventually; you already told them it was fine if they sold aesthetics, so what's one more step?
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?
Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally?
Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
The difference is how is one is alright over the other in regards to what you pay for?
Why should one assume a box price should get them everything else that is or may be created for an MMO?
Because one company does it?..oh that's right GW2 has a cash shop too. Plenty of people don't even want to pay a sub for a P2P. As if maintaining ass-loads of servers is free.Then they don't expect to pay for free to play games because they haven't grasped that nothings free...ever.
Why is so many expect this from an MMO and not from anything else you pay for ...like access to Disney World and everything within its gates for the admission price?
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
The difference is how is one is alright over the other in regards to what you pay for?
Why should one assume a box price should get them everything else that is or may be created for an MMO?
Because one company does it?..oh that's right GW2 has a cash shop too. Plenty of people don't even want to pay a sub for a P2P. As if maintaining ass-loads of servers is free.Then they don't expect to pay for free to play games because they haven't grasped that nothings free...ever.
Why is so many expect this from an MMO and not from anything else you pay for ...like access to Disney World and everything within its gates for the admission price?
FIrst,it is most likely that the food,beverages and souvenir vendors are not linked to disney,which makes them independent therefore they need to make money,unlike an mmorpg where the extras are provided by the same company which also takes the money from the subs and boxes.
Secondly,if you have that much money that you cannot see when someone's trying to rip you off ,you should start realising that there are people who can see that and are not pleased with it.
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?
Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally?
Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.
That's really where the hatred comes from too. While others have no problem...the embittered ( or the "principled" as they would likely call themselves) stare and drool at what others have that they don't ...all the while crying "sour grapes".
I don't go hog wild in cash shops but I certainly don't mind them as an option and am not above getting that Slayer weapon-skin for $9.99 if I choose to fork out some cash from my very meager account.
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
The difference is how is one is alright over the other in regards to what you pay for?
Why should one assume a box price should get them everything else that is or may be created for an MMO?
Because one company does it?..oh that's right GW2 has a cash shop too. Plenty of people don't even want to pay a sub for a P2P. As if maintaining ass-loads of servers is free.Then they don't expect to pay for free to play games because they haven't grasped that nothings free...ever.
Why is so many expect this from an MMO and not from anything else you pay for ...like access to Disney World and everything within its gates for the admission price?
Because it's a completely mixed analogy. GW2 is buy-to-play; their cash shop takes the place of subscriptions. Similarly, free-to-play games use cash shops in place of subscriptions, but they sell a heck of a lot more. Tera is a subscription-based game; their subscription is supposed to take the place of cash shops. In the original Disneyland analogy, Disneyland would be B2P - the initial purchase gets you in and gives you access to the rides, but extras come out of your own pocket. F2P games would be like state fairs, where looking around is free, but everything else comes out of your own pocket. There isn't an amusement park model currently in existence that's analogous to subscription-based games. That's why it's a bad example.
I know what many people mean. Just the other day ..living in Florida I went to Disney World. I paid full price to enter the park but I'll be damned if they didnt charge me for all the food and beverages as well as a pair of Mickey Mouse ears and a Pluto keychain. Pay to play at Disney World and Cash shop. Bullshit!!
Because there's absolute no difference between disney world and a mmorpg.
Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
Can you really make no difference between real life and a game?
Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally?
Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.
That's really where the hatred comes from too. While others have no problem...the embittered ( or the "principled" as they would likely call themselves) stare and drool at what others have that they don't ...all the while crying "sour grapes".
I don't go hog wild in cash shops but I certainly don't mind them as an option and am not above getting that Slayer weapon-skin for $9.99 if I choose to fork out some cash from my very meager account.
When i purchased the box i expected to be equal with any other player .When i see they got something that i don't have access to unless i pay,i'm pissed.
I know right ? WTH ? I mean these things let you buy weapons that let you wtpwn in PVP and skip levels in PVE and get better equip than raiders and everything ,
Right ?
I mean surely they must do that because no one would really whine and complain about people being able to buy cosmetic items that have zero effect on gameplay.
Would they ?
They would because it almost always starts like this and then little by little they start to add "convenience items" and then start adding weapons and armors but that is ok because you can get that in game as well (if you grind for endless hours) and eventually you will have a cash shop which is mostly Pay 2 Win.
They are using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog syndrome which essentially means they are adding little by little, hoping you wont notice until you are "boiled alive".
Because it's a completely mixed analogy. GW2 is Buy-to-play; their cash shop takes the place of subscriptions. Similarly, free-to-play games use cash shops in place of subscriptions, but they sell a heck of a lot more. Tera is a subscription-based game; their subscription is supposed to take the place of cash shops. In the original Disneyland analogy, Disneyland would be B2P - the initial purchase gets you in and gives you access to the rides, but extras come out of your own pocket. F2P games would be like state fairs, where looking around is free, but everything else comes out of your own pocket. There isn't an amusement park model currently in existence that's analogous to subscription-based games. That's why it's a bad example.
^ Is correct. It would be like going to Disney World, paying to get in, paying for each hour you are in, and also paying for food and souvenirs.
Comments
Soo wait, a character remodel/gender change/race change should be included with the subsription? Also some fancy outrageous weapon skins, that only apply over a weapon you already have is a horrible cash shop? Yes this is all stuff that completely changes how people play the game.These aren't even "conveniance" items that make playing through easier/faster. Last time I checked most MMOs have some sort of character remodel feature that costs real money. Seriously!
Why? No one forces you to buy cosmetic items.
Included indeed or not available at all.
None forces you to pay a sub either,but you still do it because you want to enjoy the game.
Well, they both are theme parks that let you ride everything for the price of admission and charge you extra for things such as clothing.
I think the analogy was pretty good actually.
It is absolutely not a good analogy.
Food cost money. It then costs money to ship, then to prepare. It costs money to have employees prepare and serve, then clean up afterwards.
Souvenirs cost money to manufacture, shop warehouse and stock, Someone has to keep inventory etc.
In contrast, Anarchy Online has a player who volunteered to recreate inventory icons for many items in the game. That was one person in spare time. I think 15/mo could cover modding a few meshes.
Are you really unaware that you are taking the anaology too literally?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
remodal chars, change name, server tranfer, etc are like small services.
A weapon skin is not a service, its a item. And in p2p model, we should have acess to all itens without paying extra money.
But this is only my opinion, not a gamebreaker for now, but can be just the beggining of a long path.
Love how everyone throwing a fit over these thing, same things WoW has for years, race change, server change, faction change. Yet when Tera have it everyone throws a fit like its never happened before.
You are over thinking this and have lost the forest for the trees, probably better to return to the OP.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's a slippery slope argument. It's easy to say, "So what? I don't care about it, so it doesn't matter." But aesthetics do matter to a segment of the playerbase, otherwise they wouldn't be selling them. For those people, charging extra for aesthetics means their subscription is giving them less than it used to. What if those people said, "I don't care about pvp, let them sell +stat pvp gear," or pvpers said "I don't care about raiding, let them sell +stat raid gear." Every part of the game matters to someone; the second you start charging micro-payments on top of subscriptions, somebody's getting screwed. If it's not you, great, but history indicates that they'll come for you eventually.
Vert well and neatly put.Thanks!
Then lets say he would have been staring at the other people's food and beverages drooling.
The difference is how is one is alright over the other in regards to what you pay for?
Why should one assume a box price should get them everything else that is or may be created for an MMO?
Because one company does it?..oh that's right GW2 has a cash shop too. Plenty of people don't even want to pay a sub for a P2P. As if maintaining ass-loads of servers is free.Then they don't expect to pay for free to play games because they haven't grasped that nothings free...ever.
Why is so many expect this from an MMO and not from anything else you pay for ...like access to Disney World and everything within its gates for the admission price?
FIrst,it is most likely that the food,beverages and souvenir vendors are not linked to disney,which makes them independent therefore they need to make money,unlike an mmorpg where the extras are provided by the same company which also takes the money from the subs and boxes.
Secondly,if you have that much money that you cannot see when someone's trying to rip you off ,you should start realising that there are people who can see that and are not pleased with it.
That's really where the hatred comes from too. While others have no problem...the embittered ( or the "principled" as they would likely call themselves) stare and drool at what others have that they don't ...all the while crying "sour grapes".
I don't go hog wild in cash shops but I certainly don't mind them as an option and am not above getting that Slayer weapon-skin for $9.99 if I choose to fork out some cash from my very meager account.
Because it's a completely mixed analogy. GW2 is buy-to-play; their cash shop takes the place of subscriptions. Similarly, free-to-play games use cash shops in place of subscriptions, but they sell a heck of a lot more. Tera is a subscription-based game; their subscription is supposed to take the place of cash shops. In the original Disneyland analogy, Disneyland would be B2P - the initial purchase gets you in and gives you access to the rides, but extras come out of your own pocket. F2P games would be like state fairs, where looking around is free, but everything else comes out of your own pocket. There isn't an amusement park model currently in existence that's analogous to subscription-based games. That's why it's a bad example.
When i purchased the box i expected to be equal with any other player .When i see they got something that i don't have access to unless i pay,i'm pissed.
They would because it almost always starts like this and then little by little they start to add "convenience items" and then start adding weapons and armors but that is ok because you can get that in game as well (if you grind for endless hours) and eventually you will have a cash shop which is mostly Pay 2 Win.
They are using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog syndrome which essentially means they are adding little by little, hoping you wont notice until you are "boiled alive".
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Cut and paste GW2 cash shop threads insert here.
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^ Is correct. It would be like going to Disney World, paying to get in, paying for each hour you are in, and also paying for food and souvenirs.