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hype? or something else?
Rictis
Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
in Guild Wars 2
Hey,
As someone that is looking at potentially buying GW2, I would like to hear from you guys what the game does so drastically different that warrants a purchase?
A few things I am curious about:
1) I hear great things about the new quest system, but I am dubious at best to see if this has any staying power.
2) I hear you can customize your skills, but I feel that this may go the way of Rift. In other words you get a ton of skills you can use but a clear "best" build to use. I hope this is not the case.
while there are other features these 2 seem to be the more focused of the lot. Would you like to add your thoughts, please post below.
Comments
1. A matter of perception, no one can tell you how good the system is, you need to judge that by yourself.
2. I doubt GW2 will see the imbalance problems of Rift. While GW2 offers a lot of choice (possibly more choice than Rift), your skill bar is rather restricted in how you can setup the skills. In addition I think that ANet has got more experience in balancing games with MMORPG-like skill systems.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Well I am interested in the dynamic events because I think it's a neat idea. However what exactly makes them different then a long on going quest chain? Sure delivery is important but do you think it's enough to make this a decent feature?
Do you guys feel that changing weapons to use different skills can feel somewhat clunky? My time in the beta was pretty brief so I did not have a chance to fully test out the skills functionality.
1 - Any quest system that is software based has its limits. The good thing about GW2's DEs is that it breaks the usual pattern of "go to hub, grab quests, go to the red area on the map, kill X, return to hub" that is so old and tired. The way DEs are inserted within the maps makes them feel much more organic and interesting. Also, there are some DEs way off the beaten path, and if you explore a bit you will find some interesting things. This is smart design, IMO. Eventually, you will do them all (or almost them all, but since some branch, there is still room for surprises.
2 - I was also afraid of that, but 5 minutes doing PVP immediately dissolved any fears I had. There is no 'optimal build', since you need to adapt to many different factors to perform well. A single weapon choice rarely gives you all the tools you need to do well. Also, the support skills have an interesting interaction with the weapon you choose, so they can influence you positively or negatively.
It is a system with lots of depth. Anet is also looking at some slightly OP choices, such as some Ranger builds that trivialized other weapon choices, for the most part.
Delivery is one of the bigger changes introduced by the Dynamic Event System, a second one is the fact that dynamic events allow everyone to participate in the event and to be rewarded in accordance with their performance. Things such as killstealing or waiting for boss mobs to spawn, after which they get tagged by someone else (=TERA in a nutshell) are non-existant. And then you've got the ability of dynamic events to change the world, this can be found in villages being destroyed or taken over and forts being besieged etc...
I personally feel that Dynamic Events are superior to the quests you find in most other Themepark MMORPGs, they may not be a revolution, but they certainly are an evolutionary step (in my opinion) which cannot be undone.
Thanks for the clarification on the combat system, I will have to do some more research and hopefully someone will come out with a skill tree video so I can get a better idea of how it works. I think I will wait to see a few more beta videos, because I am still not 100% sold on the DE's. I have this feeling that they are going to be fun for the first few you encounter and then somehow become lackluster. Time will tell.
I am a big fan of players creating change in the gameworld. For example capturing outposts etc. I wonder if they will focus more on this feature, if they do I can easily see myself picking this up.
1. Well, it feels really new but it is not that different. Heart quests are exactly like quests except you don't have to take them and they usually offers you a few choices, so you could do one thing or mix a few as you like.
DEs are a bit similar but happens while you are out and walking, they are sometimes chains, sometimes triggered by enviromental effects, players, others events or just randomly.
The real difference besides you usually having a few choices and that they scale is that there are no questhubs anymore. Good riddance.
2. It feels rather different from Rift. You unlock skillslots and get skillpoints to buy skills by playing, and some of these skills make good combos with others or work better for your playstyle. There are however plenty of useful skills and knowing ANET they will add more later.
The big difference between this and Rift however is that there are more possible playstyles in GW2 and therefor the numbers of good builds will be more. A few skills might be rather useless, or used for weird combos no.one thought about yet. GW1 do have many good builds, in Rift I always felt there were about 3 for each of the 4 classes.
GW2 doesn't really do things so dramatically different from other games, but it present things in a new way. The most interesting things to me is the fact that you usually work together with other players even when you just solo, and that they re-introduced exploration, a feature that used to be great in MMOs but been dead for almost 10 years.
It is more common in PvP than PvE but it does happen there as well. Monsters can take over an outpost, build a base there and move to the next place for a new attack until someone stops them.
aside from whats already been said look at the video in my sig and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld8un1qo2mE&feature=related
just so many little touches like this make the game so much more fun... some might care less about this stuff but it really adds a lot to the overall package imho
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I'm sure others will answer your questions, I just found the statement about you being dubious as to whether or not their content delivery will have any staying power to be curious.
Does that mean you're expecting somewhere down the line, people will realise that it's just not working, the whole having a certain amount of freedom in direction, and that going back to traditional linear task grinds is the only option?
Maybe it's just worded oddly, but I'm not sure what you mean by questioning it's 'staying power', as I'm sure the vast amount of people who have had the opportunity to play GW2 will agree that it's far superior to traditional static task hub grinds.
In my opinion, the traditional lineaar task hubs we've been fed since WoW have reached the end of their usefulness. I can't imagine that any new games that seriously expect to compete will choose to mimic that ancient and limited system over something like the dynamic set up we see in GW2.
DEs are a nice perk, imo. But the real meat of the game, at least for me, is exploring and the amazing PVP.
Look at this channel, and look for the GW2 videos in there, especially the class ones. They are very useful as an introduction, and they will give you a better feel about the whole skill system
http://www.youtube.com/user/BlueXephos?feature=watch
Well I am interested in the dynamic events because I think it's a neat idea. However what exactly makes them different then a long on going quest chain? Sure delivery is important but do you think it's enough to make this a decent feature?
Delivery is one of the bigger changes introduced by the Dynamic Event System, a second one is the fact that dynamic events allow everyone to participate in the event and to be rewarded in accordance with their performance. Things such as killstealing or waiting for boss mobs to spawn, after which they get tagged by someone else (=TERA in a nutshell) are non-existant. And then you've got the ability of dynamic events to change the world, this can be found in villages being destroyed or taken over and forts being besieged etc... I personally feel that Dynamic Events are superior to the quests you find in most other Themepark MMORPGs, they may not be a revolution, but they certainly are an evolutionary step (in my opinion) which cannot be undone.
I am a big fan of players creating change in the gameworld. For example capturing outposts etc. I wonder if they will focus more on this feature, if they do I can easily see myself picking this up.
It is certainly there, but the developers have already hinted at there not being severe consequences tied to the success or failure of Dynamic Events until you get past the starting areas. I already noticed that the 15-25 Kessex Hills contained way more dynamic events about defending/capturing forts and towns than the 1-15 zone Queensdale.
Game is definitely worth a purchase - if not for the fact that it isn't subscription based, and yet probably has as much content as some single player games. So just ignore one of your planned single player game purchase, and get this one instead.
Now, the game itself:
- Dynamic events are honestly not that amazing at all, they are just quests in disguise in a way. You will not be blown away by them. The nice thing about them though is that you are just WALKING AROUND, litterally, looking for adventure in the world. That felt great to me: freedom, seeing things happening rather than talking to someone and then going to point A to complete the task. This is refreshing and a lot more interactive.
- Controls are tight. This is great. Game is absolutely not clunky.
- Classes are fun, interesting. Skills are good, some think you don't have enough of them overall (which can be true depending on how you look at it).
- World vs World is a blast: taking forts, using trebuchets and stuff. Tons of fun here. PvP in general is fun and fast paced.
- Cities and artwork in general is amazing.
Negatives... Kind of hard to find any really, the game is honestly that good. Most negatives you will hear from people are about things they think SHOULD be in the game, not about things that ARE in the game. So the game, with the choices Anet made and the system they decided to implement, works well as it is (although most certainly could be improved).
I wonder if things wont continue to move instead and that ANET ot someone else will take this a lot further.
I really hate questhubs, they make a linear game feel 10 times as linear as it already is and tend to turn large prt of the gameworld into an empty waste where you only go to kill x mobs.
I feel the need to adress this specific part of your post, because I wouldn't just boldly state as a fact that Dynamic Events are not really amazing and will not blow you away, the quality of the Event System has just got too much to do with perception to be able to make such a definitive judgement in regards to their quality, or their "Oomph"-factor.
There is so much I liked about GW2 it would be a very long unread post if I really got deep into. Instead I will try and keep it simple.
GW2 immerses me into my character more than any other game in a very very long time, maybe more than any game ever has.
From the character creator that gave me the choice of looking like a normal girl next door. To the thought that went into the default camera point of view. To the personality choices of my avatar, the conversation choices in dialog are actually things I would think, or I would say, not retarded things I would never say in a million years like most games ever made.
The make a hero, heroic, but for the human girl almost reluctantly so. The norn is way more, outlandish in her dialogs, but the human is me, the way I see and feel about things.
I LOVE that choices you make, from the questions you answer in the character creation on have a REAL and direct influence on the progression and direction of YOUR game, and YOUR story.
See they say that in the beginning.. " This is YOUR story... " and they go very far to actually make you feel that it is YOUR story, and all YOUR choices decide the part your avatar grows as a person and a hero.
On a side note,
I find myself missing my Avatar as if she is part of me or a real friend, and it is making me crazy I can not get to her. I can already tell it is going to KILL me to lose her at the end of beta or when they wipe, and it is going to be a real pain trying to recreate her exactly as she is, as she has become.
I agree completely, one of the first things I loved about MMOs was the freedom I had to go exploring, with the advent of WoW we started to see more linear and controlled environments. I've been hating it for years.
While under the hood we're still taking part in traditional MMO activities in GW2, their delivery system completely puts control back in the hands of the player in terms of choosing their own path, and it makes all the difference in the world for me. It might only technically be small changes (at the least), but the impact it has on the flow of the game is undeniable.
I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to compete in the MMO market choosing a traditional linear task hub as it's primary form of content delivery from this point forward. If I have a choice (and I obviously now do), I will never go back to that.
Perhaps i chose my words wrong, for that I apologize. What I meant was that DE while seem very interesting I feel might not have the pull to keep the game fresh. Companies consistantly try to give you a reason to jump in and stick with their game. I want DE's to work because it will clear up the old method, but I am not so sure that the way they have them set up will do that.
Plus I am worried that there may be issues with getting decent rewards using that system with simmilar systems ex, Warhammer. Their PQ system ran off your total effort and SWTOR uses the same system in their pvp. Seeing as how those companies conifigured their "effort system" leaves me wondering if GW2 will be any different, hopefully I am wrong and it will be awesome
Perhaps i chose my words wrong, for that I apologize. What I meant was that DE while seem very interesting I feel might not have the pull to keep the game fresh. Companies consistantly try to give you a reason to jump in and stick with their game. I want DE's to work because it will clear up the old method, but I am not so sure that the way they have them set up will do that.
Plus I am worried that there may be issues with getting decent rewards using that system with simmilar systems ex, Warhammer. Their PQ system ran off your total effort and SWTOR uses the same system in their pvp. Seeing as how those companies conifigured their "effort system" leaves me wondering if GW2 will be any different, hopefully I am wrong and it will be awesome
I believe that ANet can get the participation system to work right, I've already noticed that it works almost perfectly in PvP: I felt that I was getting rewards accordingly to my performance. And since PvE has got less variables than PvP I assume that it will be easier to balance the system when it is applied there.
Anet didn't reinvent the wheel, they took it, added rubber tires for a smoother ride, put on some bitchin' hub caps, polished it up and repackaged it. So it not only looks better, but it functions better than anything else to date, IMHO.
The heart system is really just your basic quest system (go kill/find 10 XYZ) without the hub or the exclamation point. Then, in many cases, if you hang around after doing some of these quests, you delve deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole and find out WHY you needed to kill 10 bandits, etc. The level of detail to me is pretty amazing. When you couple that with excellent game mechanics, PvP, a good story (not the greatest, but entertaining nonetheless) and all the extras in the game, I see it having very good longevity. At least the longevity of, say, LotRO, or even WoW. (not saying it will be a WoW killer, just remarking on how long it will retain a decent amount of players)
I think Anet is really on to something with this game, combining aspects not only of other MMOs, but of other types of games (SPRPGs like Skyrim). And, considering their track record with GW1, they will be putting out content (expansions and new DEs) and skills/armor/fun items, on a regular basis.
If you are considering dishing out the money for it, I personally don't think you'd be wasting your money at all.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
You can swap out skills and weapon whenever you want as long as you are not currently in combat. That only thing not immediately changable is your traits.
If you have a defensive trait setup you can't be an optimal spiker whenever you want. But you can and will change your skill setup quite often to suit the situation.
You may only have about 20 skills you can actively use during combat. But you have something like 50-60 to choose from at anyone time (if you have unlocked them all).
What the OP is considering a build probably has no analog in GW2.
DEs play a big part of post launch updates (not expansions they are a separate thing) - see this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/351433/GW2-Article-at-PC-Gamer.html
As far as rewards they work great - I've gotten Bronze when I expected to (came into event at tail end and maybe got a couple of hits in), Silver, and Gold. Dynamic Events themselves give Karma, Gold, and Experience - and you can buy what you want from the Karma vendors in the field or the Karma vendors in the cities.
Even better is that the rewards off of mobs are for my real level no matter how far I've been downleveled.
Yeah, reasonable concerns, but I'm personally convinced they've made the right choices.
It's not as easy as taking GW2 systems out of context and inserting them into other games like Warhammer or WoW or whatever to imagine how it functions though, GW2 approaches a lot of things quite differently and their systems just don't make as much sense in another game.
Someone else can probably explain it better, but one rough example that comes to mind is a video I watched (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/02/watch-an-hour-of-guild-wars-2-dungeon-footage-plus-commentary/) earlier in which one correspondent was providing commentary about his game play to his fellow reporter as they watched a video of his dungeon run.
The guy that wasn't as familiar with GW2 kept making assumptions based on what we've traditionally had in MMOs, and really kept trying to force what the guy that did play said into neat little compartments that he'd preconceived from his experience in other games (fair enough), blocking out what the guy that did actually play was really saying. The annoying thing was how his conclusions were all flawed because of this. It was really annoying to watch.
Anyway, it's up to everyone to decide for themselves. We all have different tastes. I've been either disappointed with the evolution of MMOs or trying to be content with mediocre for almost a decade now.
This is the first game in a very long time (if you look at my post history I'm sure you'll see about 9 years of grumpy and jaded sprinkled with a few glimmers of cautious hope for potentials like Vanguard, WAR & Rift) that I've liked for what it actually is at the moment, rather than for its future potential, and what it could possibly become somewhere down the road.
Every game has a build that works the best giving your situation. When I say build, I mean a set of skills that works well if you want to be the best dps, healer, tank , support, etc. GW2 might not have a "best" build option yet because the game is still in production. But there is usually a set of skills that come into their pre-set build.