Three reasons I think this game will fail hardcore.
1. Hero Engine
2. No player Housing, which is a TES staple.
3. Class based Character System. Ooooh YAY ME, I get to play a Mage, Priest, Rogue, or Warrior in a TES universe. BORING.....TES was always about Skill Based classless systems like playing my 1H Axe, Fire/Illusion Dark Elf in Skyrim. Now what class based character fits that model? Anser: NONE, I am forced to play some generic fantasy class instead of becoming my own custom creation. HORRIBLE!
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Housing that is limited, that is expensive and that is not accessible equally to all styles of play, simply does not work and has been a mistake in games that offered it as the OP suggests.
The point is that an MMO is not RL, at least, part of the appeal of an MMO is the possibility to do something that one simply does not have the opportunity to do in RL - Becoming a powerfull mage laying Waste with Powerfull spells, or a Knight in a Shiny armor Saving the unfortunate Travellers from a Fierce Dragon -, if you shove RL limitations and realities down to the player's throats in what is supposed to be a "game" or if not, a "Fantasy World where anything is possible for everyone", players will reject that game, and they have in the past.
So, many devellopers, just choose to not include Housing instead of trying to find solutions that will provide equal opportunity to all. If it is not there, there is nothing to worry about is the logic. Not to mention the effort and ressources that would have been needed in order to include Housing.
But here we come to the conundrum. Many players, do want this feature, whie we may not all agree on certain aspects of it, like in this discussion I do not agree with the OP, we all do want the feature nevertheless, like both the OP and I would like to see Housing in this game.
I think, one of the solutions is actually to use, thematic related Instances for Housing. And I am not talking about an Instanced Room here. I am talking about an Instanced Area where players can build their Housing on, and that this area is made of the same theme as the Open area it relates to.
For example, you could explore the world and decide to build your house in a Swamp Open Area, then your Instanced Housing area will be accessed via a Travel NPC within the Open Swamp Area, and once there your instance has the same features as the Open Swamp area, in other words it is also a Swamp and you explore it and build your House in to it from the ressources existing within it, you can make it open so that other players can visit it and you could even be crafting and selling your wares or host any kind of Social activity you like..etc.
This way, you solve many of the issues raised, Housing will not cluter the world, there will be enough for everyone, and it is accessible to everyone.
Expanding on this you could make it so that several Players could combine their Instances, by polling ressources and upgrading to a combined area which could be bigger depending on the number of people combining their instances, a small guild could build a village, a larger one a Castle or a City etc etc..
Exploring the Game's Lands could also be about exploring the Player made Communities and Establishements, meeting new people who may have created their own background storis and are ready to share their own experiences and adventures or personalities allong with a nice Pint of Ale.
I would take it a step further, I would let the players manage, the "security" features of their own housing Instances, permiting PvP (with appropriate setup to eliminate grief, abuse and ambush play of cource) or Not permiting it for example.
Let the players be in a position to Customize their experience as the players see fit and have fun with.
But most devellopers seem to addopt a "God Mode" when they move from designing an MMO rather than a Single player game, all of the sudden the player is not treated as the Adventurer of the world, but rather the spectator of their Themepark.
Ultimatelly, solutions exist, suffice it the Designers/Devs actually wish to solve the problems they may perceive.
For now, I am inclined to agree with Istavaan..they got the feedback from many Skyrim players, they know many want an MMO like it, and they are going for the money grab, as quickly as possible with as little investement as possible as to maximize profit while taking advantage of the current Hype...all fine and nice Business plans, but nothing "Fun Game" oriented about them.
Your wrong. Asherons Call in its prime has real estate system such as Mansions, Villas, House, and Apartment. It worked and worked well. One of the best systems in the world and yet not everyone was able to either afford a house and its maintenance cost or was able to be quick enough to find one. It was a whole new meta game going around looking for new houses that came on the market and it expanded the economy greatly.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Housing that is limited, that is expensive and that is not accessible equally to all styles of play, simply does not work and has been a mistake in games that offered it as the OP suggests.
The point is that an MMO is not RL, at least, part of the appeal of an MMO is the possibility to do something that one simply does not have the opportunity to do in RL - Becoming a powerfull mage laying Waste with Powerfull spells, or a Knight in a Shiny armor Saving the unfortunate Travellers from a Fierce Dragon -, if you shove RL limitations and realities down to the player's throats in what is supposed to be a "game" or if not, a "Fantasy World where anything is possible for everyone", players will reject that game, and they have in the past.
So, many devellopers, just choose to not include Housing instead of trying to find solutions that will provide equal opportunity to all. If it is not there, there is nothing to worry about is the logic. Not to mention the effort and ressources that would have been needed in order to include Housing.
But here we come to the conundrum. Many players, do want this feature, whie we may not all agree on certain aspects of it, like in this discussion I do not agree with the OP, we all do want the feature nevertheless, like both the OP and I would like to see Housing in this game.
I think, one of the solutions is actually to use, thematic related Instances for Housing. And I am not talking about an Instanced Room here. I am talking about an Instanced Area where players can build their Housing on, and that this area is made of the same theme as the Open area it relates to.
For example, you could explore the world and decide to build your house in a Swamp Open Area, then your Instanced Housing area will be accessed via a Travel NPC within the Open Swamp Area, and once there your instance has the same features as the Open Swamp area, in other words it is also a Swamp and you explore it and build your House in to it from the ressources existing within it, you can make it open so that other players can visit it and you could even be crafting and selling your wares or host any kind of Social activity you like..etc.
This way, you solve many of the issues raised, Housing will not cluter the world, there will be enough for everyone, and it is accessible to everyone.
Expanding on this you could make it so that several Players could combine their Instances, by polling ressources and upgrading to a combined area which could be bigger depending on the number of people combining their instances, a small guild could build a village, a larger one a Castle or a City etc etc..
Exploring the Game's Lands could also be about exploring the Player made Communities and Establishements, meeting new people who may have created their own background storis and are ready to share their own experiences and adventures or personalities allong with a nice Pint of Ale.
I would take it a step further, I would let the players manage, the "security" features of their own housing Instances, permiting PvP (with appropriate setup to eliminate grief, abuse and ambush play of cource) or Not permiting it for example.
Let the players be in a position to Customize their experience as the players see fit and have fun with.
But most devellopers seem to addopt a "God Mode" when they move from designing an MMO rather than a Single player game, all of the sudden the player is not treated as the Adventurer of the world, but rather the spectator of their Themepark.
Ultimatelly, solutions exist, suffice it the Designers/Devs actually wish to solve the problems they may perceive.
For now, I am inclined to agree with Istavaan..they got the feedback from many Skyrim players, they know many want an MMO like it, and they are going for the money grab, as quickly as possible with as little investement as possible as to maximize profit while taking advantage of the current Hype...all fine and nice Business plans, but nothing "Fun Game" oriented about them.
Your wrong. Asherons Call in its prime has real estate system such as Mansions, Villas, House, and Apartment. It worked and worked well. One of the best systems in the world and yet not everyone was able to either afford a house and its maintenance cost or was able to be quick enough to find one. It was a whole new meta game going around looking for new houses that came on the market and it expanded the economy greatly.
Finally someone mentions AC. And I agree 100%. Youre gonna tell me that a what 12 year old game can have what I consider about flawless player housing and TESO cant? Hell DaoC had player housing that was just fine itself and that game is also 10+ years old.
Im not a player housing nut or anything but this is Elder Scrolls were talking about and this to me sounds lazy. Im so tired of bad MMO releases and mediocre games alltogether that im just gonna avoid this one.
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Player housing and PvP content are not mutually exclusive features, and neither are social aspects and PvP content.
You can have non-instanced player housing and open world FFA PvP, and social gaming and excellent PvP all in one game.
didn't say there were...
I said the focus was wrong (which it is IMO) and that in a development with finite resource some things obviously stay and some go.
I think it was a mistake, considering the IP, to make this a PvP game and put the focus there, thats all
guys just for clarification Darkfall has all of this and they have a very small budget. Yes the game is not hugely popular but that is nearly completely because the number of people who THINK they like FFA PvP and actually do are very different.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
in most cases companys dont roll out "everything under the sun" to start off a new title..they like to see if their shit flys 1st..then roll out bells / whistles like player housing if it does ..if not..the title gets pushed aside like 70% of the market today and wait for the next steaming pile to see it that flys
And if you don't have all the bells and whistles then your game will flop as countless MMOs have experianced. The launch is the most crucial stage in any MMO. WoW was an exception and a fluke if it's launch was rocky as hell, don't know as I wasn't around at the time. If you want your MMO to fail then by all means half ass you features and become just like SWTOR.
Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".
The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.
That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.
That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.
Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).
Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.
PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.
Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".
The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.
That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.
That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.
Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).
Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.
PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.
green: ya i agree saying it cant be done is silly to even say..they / any1 can just plop it in
red: dont know how long you claim to had been playing these games but eq / daoc was plopd in after a point in time..neither had it on release
Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".
The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.
That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.
That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.
Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).
Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.
PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.
green: ya i agree saying it cant be done is silly to even say..they / any1 can just plop it in
red: dont know how long you claim to had been playing these games but eq / daoc was plopd in after a point in time..neither had it on release
Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....
Because zenimax want maximum profit with low risk. it's basically a cash grab. they want box sales, so don't buy it.
Pretty much what ALL the developers are doliong,that is why i am at least waiting to see how Archeage evolves.AA wil lhave cheapish housing to start but hey it's better than nothing,iot shows the develoepr is at least putting some effort into the game.GW2 doesn't have it,they even skipped out on mounts and several other ideas like guild halls.
Most of us have seen the trends and right now i feel the current trend is too put out generic games and use PVP as their selling point or still trying to pan off "end game" as a worthy replacement for the real game.
Of course i do not knwo for sure but i have quite often been right on my predictions and i feel Zenimax is just using the successful franchise name to make easy sales on what i expect wil lbe a ho hum release.
Most of the develoeprs will NOLT gotoo far in the hole ,most are expecting to break even or make profits in the first year.I might sound biased but FFXI is the ONLY game i know have that had a planned 5 years just top break even,and the game depth showed.
I have not seen ANY ,not one single game put any effort into any part of their games,every single aspect has been done to the minumum,this is sad game designing.Blizzard seems to get away with mediocre releases but i bet thier time of fanbois following will soon come to an end.
As i already mentioned Archeage is the ONLY game i have seen since FFXi that might actually put everytrhing into the game on release and with more depth than the last 5 years has shown us.
I was a big fan of Elder scrolls years ago,but i feel they have been left behind and i do not expect much from that franchise anymore.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....
DAoC didnt have housing till about a year and a half after release. EQ doesnt have housing. EQ2 does
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....
DAoC didnt have housing till about a year and a half after release. EQ doesnt have housing. EQ2 does
EQ does have housing, pretty extensive housing tbh. Came in with the House of Thule expac.
OP has it a bit too complicated. If you can't do player cities and housing (honestly I think you could, given all the villages you encounter in TES games), do instanced housing.
Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.
Really a dumb thing to say... What do you when you've leveled up all the classes , you're burned out in PVP , you start to collect stuff in-game customize your house increase your property... MMORPG's are starting to die and if they don't start incorporating Player housing and old Ultima Online ,SWG , concepts there days will be limited , Warhammer Online 1.5 million subs @ launch , deader then kelseys nuts .... SWTOR the next WoW killer , don't think anyone thinks that today... Ultima online 16 years later still chugging away with enough subscribers for EA to turn a profit , pay employees , and develope expansions.... What does that say about player housing? It says if you want to stand apart and be sucessful you better incorporate it , or your another WoW clone that the market will chew up and spit out....
It isn't a dumb thing to say. It does nothing for HIS gaming experience in an MMO, and HIS experience is the standard by which everyone else should be measured. It's really compelling logic when you think about it.
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
I really don't get why pve players turn everything into raging against the inclusion of pvp. I myself love open world pvp. Yet I also love player housing. There's plenty of room to include both. But such limited thinking like yours is why games fail.
what worries me is will the mmo change the way the sp games are done? in order for it to be more "accessible" for its mmo players or some bs like that
I personally think that won't be a concern.
Bethesda aren't the ones who are screwing up the MMO, Zenimax Online Studios are.
I'm hoping that Bethesda will be able to retain their autonomy when it comes to designing the games they're creating now and into the future (although I'm betting that the simplication they decided on when creating Skyrim was due to pressure from the guys in suits who wanted the game to have greater mass appeal by eliminating some of the RPG elements, not just the development team themselves).
The day that Zenimax Media starts telling Bethesda how to make their games is the day that half the staff at Bethesda quit.
Maybe then we'll see an Elder Scrolls-esque MMORPG if they form a new studio together.
Originally posted by darkehawke
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
which just shows that somewhere along the way, MMORPGs have become mutant twisted deformed freaks of what they should represent
I personally blame World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft came along and called itself an MMORPG, and its commercial success meant every other MMORPG developer after it decided to emulate its model, hoping their formula would work for them too.
It's gotten to the point now where people assume that every MMORPG out there plays like WoW or its numerous imitators. I've heard people say "I don't like MMORPG's" many times, who when queried on which MMORPG's they've played, reveal that WoW is the only MMORPG they've ever played.
"MMORPG" today is almost taken to mean 'a game like WoW' by a wide section of the population. Its almost like Xerox is to photocopier or Walkman is to portable cassette player.
For every WoW subscriber out there, there's probably 10 people who "don't like MMORPG's" because they played WoW. That's probably 100,000 who have it in their minds that they don't like "MMORPG's", and who will probably never try another MMORPG because they don't like WoW.
I'm one of the lucky ones who started my MMORPG career with Ultima Online, so I know there's other types of MMORPG there are out there, and my imagination of what an MMORPG could be isn't restricted to the confines of the WoW theme-park model.
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.
I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).
To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?
There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.
My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.
(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.
I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).
To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?
There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.
My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.
(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)
I am going to say it again and perhaps this time someone will actually read it and maybe look into it.
1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.
2. Most games have housing. it might not be the housing any specific player wants but I dont think any player says 'this game sucks and is unplayable BECAUSE there are houses in it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles
in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing
player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is
p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes
am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes
am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no
The reality is these companies look at WoW and find no player housing, and they feel, based on this feedback, why should they add arbitrary complexity if the rats will come the the feeder anyway? In other words, they want to leave YOU, the individual gamer, out of the equation as much as possible. These aren't startup companies, and they don't truly care about you or the game.
These aren't the early days of mmo gaming, and they do nothing for ideal reasons. That is the reality of it. Accept it or not, but believe what you like.
MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles
in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing
player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is
p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes
am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes
am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no
people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.
People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.
People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
LAZYNESS
No other explanation.
Three reasons I think this game will fail hardcore.
1. Hero Engine
2. No player Housing, which is a TES staple.
3. Class based Character System. Ooooh YAY ME, I get to play a Mage, Priest, Rogue, or Warrior in a TES universe. BORING.....TES was always about Skill Based classless systems like playing my 1H Axe, Fire/Illusion Dark Elf in Skyrim. Now what class based character fits that model? Anser: NONE, I am forced to play some generic fantasy class instead of becoming my own custom creation. HORRIBLE!
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Your wrong. Asherons Call in its prime has real estate system such as Mansions, Villas, House, and Apartment. It worked and worked well. One of the best systems in the world and yet not everyone was able to either afford a house and its maintenance cost or was able to be quick enough to find one. It was a whole new meta game going around looking for new houses that came on the market and it expanded the economy greatly.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
didn't say there were...
I said the focus was wrong (which it is IMO) and that in a development with finite resource some things obviously stay and some go.
I think it was a mistake, considering the IP, to make this a PvP game and put the focus there, thats all
Finally someone mentions AC. And I agree 100%. Youre gonna tell me that a what 12 year old game can have what I consider about flawless player housing and TESO cant? Hell DaoC had player housing that was just fine itself and that game is also 10+ years old.
Im not a player housing nut or anything but this is Elder Scrolls were talking about and this to me sounds lazy. Im so tired of bad MMO releases and mediocre games alltogether that im just gonna avoid this one.
Shame too as I love ES series.
guys just for clarification Darkfall has all of this and they have a very small budget. Yes the game is not hugely popular but that is nearly completely because the number of people who THINK they like FFA PvP and actually do are very different.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
And if you don't have all the bells and whistles then your game will flop as countless MMOs have experianced. The launch is the most crucial stage in any MMO. WoW was an exception and a fluke if it's launch was rocky as hell, don't know as I wasn't around at the time. If you want your MMO to fail then by all means half ass you features and become just like SWTOR.
Well, it comes down to the fact that the makers of ESO want to make a "game" and not a "world".
The games mentioned, even the crappy ones, that had housing, were attempts to have more in there than just linear hack and slash 24/7.
That alone should tell you what the devs intend ESO to be.
That aside, having player housing can do a lot for the player and the company running the game, from the aspect of "doing good things for your MMO." The costs of player housing can act as a money sink to help be a check on inflation. It can provide an incentive to take and control territory, or accumulate resources to build structures.
Beyond that, for those that want player houses, it provides a lot of additional things to do, through decorating and encouraging questing to get rare items to show off. And from a business perspective, it increases the "sense of ownership" in the player and anything that does that, tends to make customers pay/play longer (see TOR for the exact opposite of this philosophy - the player can own and affect nothing in that entire game).
Bottom line is that saying player housing "can't be done" is a cop-out by a developer that is looking to make "the same old thing", with the least effort involved, trying to cash in on fans of the IP.
PS And for the previous poster, UO, SWG, EQ, DAOC and other "great" games from back then had housing from go and it was not bolted on.
green: ya i agree saying it cant be done is silly to even say..they / any1 can just plop it in
red: dont know how long you claim to had been playing these games but eq / daoc was plopd in after a point in time..neither had it on release
Huh, I thought DAOC had housing at launch or right after, I played a little while after launch and it was in already, or so I thought... and with EQ, I though it went in earlyy as well, either way, it was there, and was certainly "doable" by the devs. It has been a while....
Pretty much what ALL the developers are doliong,that is why i am at least waiting to see how Archeage evolves.AA wil lhave cheapish housing to start but hey it's better than nothing,iot shows the develoepr is at least putting some effort into the game.GW2 doesn't have it,they even skipped out on mounts and several other ideas like guild halls.
Most of us have seen the trends and right now i feel the current trend is too put out generic games and use PVP as their selling point or still trying to pan off "end game" as a worthy replacement for the real game.
Of course i do not knwo for sure but i have quite often been right on my predictions and i feel Zenimax is just using the successful franchise name to make easy sales on what i expect wil lbe a ho hum release.
Most of the develoeprs will NOLT gotoo far in the hole ,most are expecting to break even or make profits in the first year.I might sound biased but FFXI is the ONLY game i know have that had a planned 5 years just top break even,and the game depth showed.
I have not seen ANY ,not one single game put any effort into any part of their games,every single aspect has been done to the minumum,this is sad game designing.Blizzard seems to get away with mediocre releases but i bet thier time of fanbois following will soon come to an end.
As i already mentioned Archeage is the ONLY game i have seen since FFXi that might actually put everytrhing into the game on release and with more depth than the last 5 years has shown us.
I was a big fan of Elder scrolls years ago,but i feel they have been left behind and i do not expect much from that franchise anymore.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
DAoC didnt have housing till about a year and a half after release. EQ doesnt have housing. EQ2 does
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
EQ does have housing, pretty extensive housing tbh. Came in with the House of Thule expac.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:Player_Housing_in_EverQuest
OP has it a bit too complicated. If you can't do player cities and housing (honestly I think you could, given all the villages you encounter in TES games), do instanced housing.
It isn't a dumb thing to say. It does nothing for HIS gaming experience in an MMO, and HIS experience is the standard by which everyone else should be measured. It's really compelling logic when you think about it.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
I really don't get why pve players turn everything into raging against the inclusion of pvp. I myself love open world pvp. Yet I also love player housing. There's plenty of room to include both. But such limited thinking like yours is why games fail.
sadly this game has turned into a massive disappointment before its even released.
i will revoke my wish for a fallout mmo if its likely to get the same treatment.
what worries me is will the mmo change the way the sp games are done? in order for it to be more "accessible" for its mmo players or some bs like that
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
which just shows that somewhere along the way, MMORPGs have become mutant twisted deformed freaks of what they should represent
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
I personally think that won't be a concern.
Bethesda aren't the ones who are screwing up the MMO, Zenimax Online Studios are.
I'm hoping that Bethesda will be able to retain their autonomy when it comes to designing the games they're creating now and into the future (although I'm betting that the simplication they decided on when creating Skyrim was due to pressure from the guys in suits who wanted the game to have greater mass appeal by eliminating some of the RPG elements, not just the development team themselves).
The day that Zenimax Media starts telling Bethesda how to make their games is the day that half the staff at Bethesda quit.
Maybe then we'll see an Elder Scrolls-esque MMORPG if they form a new studio together.
I personally blame World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft came along and called itself an MMORPG, and its commercial success meant every other MMORPG developer after it decided to emulate its model, hoping their formula would work for them too.
It's gotten to the point now where people assume that every MMORPG out there plays like WoW or its numerous imitators. I've heard people say "I don't like MMORPG's" many times, who when queried on which MMORPG's they've played, reveal that WoW is the only MMORPG they've ever played.
"MMORPG" today is almost taken to mean 'a game like WoW' by a wide section of the population. Its almost like Xerox is to photocopier or Walkman is to portable cassette player.
For every WoW subscriber out there, there's probably 10 people who "don't like MMORPG's" because they played WoW. That's probably 100,000 who have it in their minds that they don't like "MMORPG's", and who will probably never try another MMORPG because they don't like WoW.
I'm one of the lucky ones who started my MMORPG career with Ultima Online, so I know there's other types of MMORPG there are out there, and my imagination of what an MMORPG could be isn't restricted to the confines of the WoW theme-park model.
They're already plotting the same course as SWTOR. Also, It looks like a cartoon, which is mistake number two.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.
I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).
To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?
There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.
My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.
(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)
I am going to say it again and perhaps this time someone will actually read it and maybe look into it.
1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.
2. Most games have housing. it might not be the housing any specific player wants but I dont think any player says 'this game sucks and is unplayable BECAUSE there are houses in it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles
in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing
player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is
p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes
am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes
am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/
people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.
People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.
People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me