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  • XiveilXiveil Rexburg, IDPosts: 12Member

    It does, and he's not seeing that.  The problem with D2 is that your online characters were STORED LOCALLY on your computer.  By NOT storing the online chracters on local machines, you CANNOT hack the character unless you hack Blizzards servers.

    And if they manage that, hacked gear is the least of anyones concerns.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

  • malefacusmalefacus Montreal, QCPosts: 135Member

    Originally posted by Dahkot72

    Honestly , causing a single player experience to constantly depend on their servers is rather irritating , an initial key check fine whatever , but to continue to depend on their connection after launching when you simply want to play pure single player really is overboard ,

    Stupid actually.

     

     

    exactly. And we all know there are mainly greedy oriented argument behind this decision. Dioblo 3 will rock though.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by Corehaven

    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online. 

     

         So, to answer your question...Yes, really now.

     

    Yea I can see how that might annoy some people.  I wonder if thats more annoying or if not being able to play....at all....is more annoying.  Hmmmm.......

     

    And that was exactly what I was suggesting.  You can have a muliplayer toon or an offline toon.  Heck even make a single player online mode too where they can go ahead and not play with others but keep all their stuff and then everyone under the sun wins.  

     

    Have :   Offline Single Player (Warning, you will not be able to transfer any character or gear to Online play.  This is Offline only. ) 

    Online Single Player ( With this mode any character and all items can be used in multiplayer)

    Online Multi Player ( Play with your friends) 

     

    With all the explanations in the ( ) .   How does that not work? 

        Because no matter how much you try to seperate the two hacking can and will commence. If you can get an item without the watchful eye of online then you can hack it. Its not hard to fool computers. So it still doesn't solve the problem.

     

    And yes it is far more annoying. The server issue will susbside. hacking does not. I give the server issues another few days tops. In a week it will be completely a non-issue. Item hacking in diablo 2 is still an issue today, and running strong with its decade long reign of tyrany.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    So then how would you get a hacked item from offline mode into online mode?  If it doesnt allow for any items to be brought from offline, and no characters either, then how?  That makes no sense. 

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nightverge

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You should read the post righ before yours.

     

    Basically, you can locally store your single player mode characters. When you are in multiplayer mode, you store your characters on their servers. This is what prevents people from hacking.

     

    The more you know... (flying star)

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by Nightverge

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You should read the post righ before yours.

     

    Basically, you can locally store your single player mode characters. When you are in multiplayer mode, you store your characters on their servers. This is what prevents people from hacking.

     

    The more you know... (flying star)

         Haha, that made me laugh XD. I'm not the all-knower of all things here but I can  think of multiple ways to hack and include even a locally stored item and bring it online and pass every check tag possible.

         Its more difficult to do certainly, impossible? not in the least. Good hackers have actually been doing things like that for years.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nightverge

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You should read the post righ before yours.

     

    Basically, you can locally store your single player mode characters. When you are in multiplayer mode, you store your characters on their servers. This is what prevents people from hacking.

     

    The more you know... (flying star)

         Haha, that made me laugh XD. I'm not the all-knower of all things here but I can  think of multiple ways to hack and include even a locally stored item and bring it online and pass every check tag possible.

         Its more difficult to do certainly, impossible? not in the least. Good hackers have actually been doing things like that for years.

    Well, you would have to hack their servers. At which point they probably wouldn't be looking to get "leet gear", but instead, credit card information and such.

     

    You would literally have to add things to their database so that your client could pull from it.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    Originally posted by Nightverge

         Haha, that made me laugh XD. I'm not the all-knower of all things here but I can  think of multiple ways to hack and include even a locally stored item and bring it online and pass every check tag possible.

         Its more difficult to do certainly, impossible? not in the least. Good hackers have actually been doing things like that for years.

     

    Then indeed if that is possible, expect hackers to emulate the game, hack it to pieces and then bring all those into the online game within a year or two.  If what you are saying is possible than the system as is, would be potentially worthless. 

     

    Also meaning all the log in troubles, lag issues, and DC events players are experiencing now and may continue to on a possibly smaller scale for years to come entirely needless.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by rexzshadow

    Originally posted by fascism

    thats actually really awesome, i mean it sucks for you man, but thats just a whole new level of danger for people who role HC and its sweet

    So now lag is a whole new level of danger wow thats new.

    You know you're drinking a little too much koolaid when you're acting like lag is a feature.

     

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nightverge

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

    So, then... what is stopping them from hackingthe game right now?

     

    You are basically saying that what they've done to comabt hacking was pointless and people are going to be hacking anyway. 

     

    It's you who aren't aware of how things work. There are like 5 people trying to explain it to you, but you are refusing to listen.

  • IkisisIkisis Venice, FLPosts: 310Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Corehaven

    Originally posted by Nightverge



         Haha, that made me laugh XD. I'm not the all-knower of all things here but I can  think of multiple ways to hack and include even a locally stored item and bring it online and pass every check tag possible.

         Its more difficult to do certainly, impossible? not in the least. Good hackers have actually been doing things like that for years.

     

    Then indeed if that is possible, expect hackers to emulate the game, hack it to pieces and then bring all those into the online game within a year or two.  If what you are saying is possible than the system as is, would be potentially worthless. 

     

    Also meaning all the log in troubles, lag issues, and DC events players are experiencing now and may continue to on a possibly smaller scale for years to come entirely needless.

    Search Diablo 3 Edit -Prvate server-! Lets just say offline diablo 3 has already been done..... Google is powerful!

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    Originally posted by Nightverge

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

     

    Again as I've already said, if this is the case, hackers will emulate D3, create hacked items and just do it anyways in a years time.  

     

    " WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE??? "   Huh?  Is there another way to play it?  Why the heck would anyone complain about that.  You could play single player offline that doesnt transfer, you can play single player online which is fine and does, and then multiplayer.    Heaven forbid you could play a game single player offline.  I can see the riots now. 

     

    You keep insisting that if the game were any other way, it would be hackable, meanwhile, if what you are suggesting is indeed true (which I seriously doubt) then it already is hackable.  Once an emulator is built.   But either way I dont think its possible.  Otherwise if it is, this safe guard of being online only is doomed to fail anyways. 

     

    So either the games online mode is hackable or not.   If its not, this isnt needed.  If it is, this wont stop hacking.  You've lost your argument both ways.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by Nightverge

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

    lol...... wow......

    If you can hack anything.... Anything... then keep in mind this includes the servers. Duping, Speed hacks, aim assist, wall hacks, teleport hacks, hackers have plauged every ONLINE ONLY MMO since they've been around. So online only is as safe as what I and others have proposed. And not.... it would require them going and hacking the server to get the correct item tags and etc. lol. So ...........

     

    In any case I would rather hear people complaining about "Why can I only play offline or online" than hear people complaining about not being able to play at all.

     

    And yes, regardless of what you do.... even if you make it online only, hackers will still find a way to hack it.

     

    I mean again... keep in mind, we have Private WoW servers.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by Ikisis

    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge



         Haha, that made me laugh XD. I'm not the all-knower of all things here but I can  think of multiple ways to hack and include even a locally stored item and bring it online and pass every check tag possible.

         Its more difficult to do certainly, impossible? not in the least. Good hackers have actually been doing things like that for years.

     

    Then indeed if that is possible, expect hackers to emulate the game, hack it to pieces and then bring all those into the online game within a year or two.  If what you are saying is possible than the system as is, would be potentially worthless. 

     

    Also meaning all the log in troubles, lag issues, and DC events players are experiencing now and may continue to on a possibly smaller scale for years to come entirely needless.

    Search Diablo 3 ***** Lets just say offline diablo 3 has already been done..... Google is powerful!

    I was attempting to avoid naming specific private servers :P might want to edit that out. It's considered promoting private/free servers and is against da rules here.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

    So, then... what is stopping them from hackingthe game right now?

     

    You are basically saying that what they've done to comabt hacking was pointless and people are going to be hacking anyway. 

     

    It's you who aren't aware of how things work. There are like 5 people trying to explain it to you, but you are refusing to listen.

         If you have online ONLY and you cannot recieve any of the items offline then they are under constant servelance basically. Its impossible to hack an item that is always online. It has to be offline at some point. The items in D3 right now are all eternally connected to the online.

         If they did add any form of offline, there would be malicious activity going on.

         I'm not refusing to listen to anything. I'm honestly only here because the servers are down. I could care less truly about the complaints on forums. I hear your ideas. I don't think they would stop the hacking or the complaints of the public. You would just have people asking why they can't take their offline, online. While hacking would still commence anyways. After all, people did get past ubisofts DRM's because of its few mintues of offline as you logged on. In that time they cracked the entire game.

         D3 is exclusively online, all of the time. 

         So yes, I hear you, I don't think any of your ideas would have fixed the problem with offline diablo. Being hackers and ignorant community members (not aiming that at you guys). People would still complain even with the proposed system that they can't take their offline play online and there would still be the threat of looming hackers to terrorize the game for all time.

         I'm actually hoping that everyone who complains just stops playing. Problem solved.

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    Nightverge, if there were offline only characters that could not be taken online, then there would be no feasible way to get any of the items that those offline characters hold into online play. I simply don't believe you, your client has no idea what items your online character has, it doesn't even know that you have characters until the server tells it. The only way for anyone to get offline items into multiplayer would be to hack Blizzard's servers, and you still wouldn't be doing it from your Diablo III client.


  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by Nightverge

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

    So, then... what is stopping them from hackingthe game right now?

     

    You are basically saying that what they've done to comabt hacking was pointless and people are going to be hacking anyway. 

     

    It's you who aren't aware of how things work. There are like 5 people trying to explain it to you, but you are refusing to listen.

         If you have online ONLY and you cannot recieve any of the items offline then they are under constant servelance basically. Its impossible to hack an item that is always online. It has to be offline at some point. The items in D3 right now are all eternally connected to the online.

         If they did add any form of offline, there would be malicious activity going on.

         I'm not refusing to listen to anything. I'm honestly only here because the servers are down. I could care less truly about the complaints on forums. I hear your ideas. I don't think they would stop the hacking or the complaints of the public. You would just have people asking why they can't take their offline, online. While hacking would still commence anyways. After all, people did get past ubisofts DRM's because of its few mintues of offline as you logged on. In that time they cracked the entire game.

         D3 is exclusively online, all of the time. 

         So yes, I hear you, I don't think any of your ideas would have fixed the problem with offline diablo. Being hackers and ignorant community members (not aiming that at you guys). People would still complain even with the proposed system that they can't take their offline play online and there would still be the threat of looming hackers to terrorize the game for all time.

         I'm actually hoping that everyone who complains just stops playing. Problem solved.

    WoW is online only - It's been emulated, people have all that data. So you are incorrect.

    UO is online only - it's been emulated, people have all that data. So you are incorrect.

    D3 is online only - It's ALREADY BEEN EMULATED

     

    Look it up for yourself, it's already been done lol. I know of 2 working servers atm lol.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Nightverge


    Originally posted by Corehaven


    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

     

    Really now?  How about seperate the Single Player game from the Multiplayer one?   Totally seperate.  I dont see how that wouldnt work. 

         Read as I said above. It was tried (to a certain degree) In Diablo 2 already. Basically you just couldn't transfer items from offline to online. Not only did it not stop hackers (who just hacked the offline items anyways to place the online tags on them to get them past the checks) but it pissed off everyone who played legally and did much of their farming for hell runs offline to do later with friends online.

    You can allow people to play alone in multiplayer mode just as it's set up right now.

     

    Then you also allow the full single player experience to players without going online at all. (Minus the AH and all multiplayer features).

     

    Two game modes - Single Player and Multiplayer.

     

    It could ahve easily worked and the fact that you can't see that is a bit nuts.

         As I said already, not only did that not work (people can still hack the items they get, even if they are COMPLETELY SEPERATE. its not that hard to do). It also pissed off everybody else. Lots of people needed them to be connected because they did their farming solo.

         If there is an offline AT ALL, you can hack the items. period. Its actually very easy to do to anyone who knows how and just like piracy it is next to impossible to stop without the constant vigil of the internet.

    You keep making the assumption that online characters would be stored on your PC. I'm not sure why your not making the logical leap that everyone else did a long time ago when discussing this very thing in the D2 community.

    Yes, if characters are stored on the PC then no, single player offline is not viable. Having multiplayer characters stored online only and offline characters stored on your PC makes this work. This is what many have been suggesting for years.

    But .... thats not what happened.

         I am doubtful that would stop them. I know what your saying, but what I'm saying is I don't believe it would work. You can hack anything. Anything.

         If its offline, you can hack it and transfer the item publicly.

         

         I hardly doubt your system would quell any of the complaints either. I can see it now "WHY CAN I ONLY PLAY OFFLINE OR ONLINE???!?"

         People just aren't aware of how tricky the situation actually is to solve until you try to solve it. I gaurantee you even implementing this system people would complain and hackers would still find a way to hack it.

    lol...... wow......

    If you can hack anything.... Anything... then keep in mind this includes the servers. Duping, Speed hacks, aim assist, wall hacks, teleport hacks, hackers have plauged every ONLINE ONLY MMO since they've been around. So online only is as safe as what I and others have proposed. And not.... it would require them going and hacking the server to get the correct item tags and etc. lol. So ...........

     

    In any case I would rather hear people complaining about "Why can I only play offline or online" than hear people complaining about not being able to play at all.

     

    And yes, regardless of what you do.... even if you make it online only, hackers will still find a way to hack it.

     

    I mean again... keep in mind, we have Private WoW servers.

         Yeah, you can hack the servers. You can not dupe the items though. Which is the problem with diablo. I'm not trying to play some kind of know-everything crusader here. Just trying to point out that the situation is more complex than most understand. 

         There are all sorts of issues to worry about here. I gaurantee there are a thousand issues with any systems we could come up with that would spring up when live. I would rather not play for a day or two while the servers get sorted out then deal with hacking for the games entire life.

          I'd like to point out that the discussion is also now far more helpful and constructive then before. If you really want to help, do this. Theory craft some stuff that they could do. Keep in mind though that none of us know everything and it is likely that every proposal we could bring up has been thought about or would have problems of its own on release to the masses.

         Actually you could dupe the items now that I think about it. In your own private server. I'm not sure how to fix the problem at all then but I'd certainly take this over hackers.

  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,538Member

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Nightverge, if there were offline only characters that could not be taken online, then there would be no feasible way to get any of the items that those offline characters hold into online play. I simply don't believe you, your client has no idea what items your online character has, it doesn't even know that you have characters until the server tells it. The only way for anyone to get offline items into multiplayer would be to hack Blizzard's servers, and you still wouldn't be doing it from your Diablo III client.

     

    He's not understanding it because he refuses too.  Which is fine. 

     

    Either the game is hackable or not.  If its not, the offline single player would work fine.  If it is, and the way he's describing it in saying " If there's any kind of offline mode malicious activity will go on" then an emulator could be built in time and its the same problem one way or the other. 

     

    But thats not going to work with him.  D3 can be online only according to him.  Thats the only way it would ever work.  Which is false as all get out but he'll have to have it his way so I give it to him. 

  • doho7744doho7744 phoenix, AZPosts: 31Member

    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

    You can explain all you want.  Your explanation and Blizzard's reasoning for always online is still crap.  All I want to play is single player.  If I want to do multiplayer I will sign into one of the many mmo's I am playing.  The real reason they went always online is to cut used sales off at the knees any other explanation is crap.  And since I neither play nor buy crap I will not participate in D3 just like I have not participated in the last 3 games put out by Blizzard.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by Corehaven

    Originally posted by Unreal024

    Nightverge, if there were offline only characters that could not be taken online, then there would be no feasible way to get any of the items that those offline characters hold into online play. I simply don't believe you, your client has no idea what items your online character has, it doesn't even know that you have characters until the server tells it. The only way for anyone to get offline items into multiplayer would be to hack Blizzard's servers, and you still wouldn't be doing it from your Diablo III client.

     

    He's not understanding it because he refuses too.  Which is fine. 

     

    Either the game is hackable or not.  If its not, the offline single player would work fine.  If it is, and the way he's describing it in saying " If there's any kind of offline mode malicious activity will go on" then an emulator could be built in time and its the same problem one way or the other. 

     

    But thats not going to work with him.  D3 can be online only according to him.  Thats the only way it would ever work.  Which is false as all get out but he'll have to have it his way so I give it to him. 

         I don't know everything. I'm learning constantly every day. So maybe I'm wrong. To someone who knows more then me I am probably. I do know of people who brought offline items to online in other games. That's what I'm going off of. They told me a few ways of how to do it in phantasy star online (which was another cesspool) which also had an offline only mode if I remember correctly.

         I'm really just trying to throw out some food for thought though. Not everything is so black and white. Those people who manage the servers and systems at blizzard are not stupid. If you've looked at the application requirements to even apply for the position you'd see what I'm talking about.

         I'm sorry but I believe them over the forumites. Everyone thinks they have a fix for problems until their idea is emplemented and goes down in flames.

         

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by doho7744

    Originally posted by Nightverge

         *sigh* I feel like I've explained this a thousand times. There can not be any offline single player. Online only was a specific request from the Diablo 2 community due to the complete and utter game ruining that was item hacking. The only way to completely stop Item hacking is to make the game online only. They even asked the D2 community if that's what they wanted and the results were overwhelmingly YES, ADD ONLINE ONLY!!!

          I'm sure its not the same people complaining. But still. Most of you aren't even aware of the true issue with offline Diablo. Especially when you consider there is going to be structured PvP and the auction houses. We absolutely hated Item hackers. It literally ruined loot hunting which was like 98% of the game.

         Why even play the game at all after you beat it sense you can just hack all of your armor to be a god?

         It was aweful and gravely impacted the community. So online only was added to D3. Not just for piracy reasons but because the community itself wanted the feature to preserve the integrity of the game. Any offline at all opens the door to hacking. In a game like this, it ruins everything.

    You can explain all you want.  Your explanation and Blizzard's reasoning for always online is still crap.  All I want to play is single player.  If I want to do multiplayer I will sign into one of the many mmo's I am playing.  The real reason they went always online is to cut used sales off at the knees any other explanation is crap.  And since I neither play nor buy crap I will not participate in D3 just like I have not participated in the last 3 games put out by Blizzard.

         lol. Well your clearly going to believe whatever you want. Just as I will probably. As I said online only spawned from the community.

         I am actually against used sales as well sense they give zero profit to the developers. So, both of the presented reasons are acceptable to me.

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