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SWTOR is dead because of arrogant, clueless lead devs

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  • Dahkot72Dahkot72 Pelham, ALPosts: 261Member

    From they hyperspace beacon interview , this jumped out at me more than any of the crap James Clueless O had to say about PVP.

    The interviewer started off a question with this,

    "I love the overall vision for PvP in general, and it's been said that SWTOR has some of the most balanced PvP in MMOs. Where do you feel you sit with that balance currently? And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?"

     

    Mother of god , the person who did that interview makes the Jim Jones followers look reasonable and lucid.

     

     

  • DeeweDeewe Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,965Member

    Originally posted by Elikal

    I really would like to be invisible visitor in their meetings. Or time travel back and visit their past meetings before launch. 

    Maybe I can help a bit:

     

    Behind the scenes of Star Wars: The Old Republic: throwing people at the problem

     



    Quote:


    Bioware Austin hire huge numbers of developers, outsource much of their art, completely rebuild how their team was integrated, and eventually make strict cuts to game features in a triage process known internally as “The Death Star”.




    Quote:


    “If you offer nothing different, you fail. But we are an MMORPG."

     

    Star Wars: The Old Republic was built to thrive in a WoW world

     



    Quote:


    Their goal, for now, is to gain over one million subscribers in the long-term, one they’re apparently well on their way to meeting.

     



    Quote:


    Dickinson said that they won some and lost some in trying to scale up to full production with this kind of scope. He believes they did well in the voice over and writing development cycle, as well as outsourcing of art for both character and environment. Where they didn’t do so well, he said, was in the build pipeline (what gets done and by whom), data tables (tracking), and software scripting.


  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sorrow

    Honestly as things stand game developers are right about us, we are idiots. Technically all the power belongs to us, but we are too stupid, selfish, self-centered, and lazy to use that power.

    If gamers organized and would apply the real power of a corporate boycott to cripple or bankrupt one or two of the giants like EA, then all the other developers would sit up take notice and start treating us with the respect we deserve.

    Sadly due to bought and paid for gaming sites, viral marketing teams, and generic disingenious troublemakers, we stay disorganized and fighting each other rather than organizing and fighting the real enemy.

     

    Sad that as we have come into an age of communication with incredible technology we have actually lost the ability or desire to communicate about the issues that really make a difference.

     

    Best post in the entire thread.  This isn't just in gaming or entertainment, it's everywhere today.  We've gotten lazy, fat, and complacent.  Sure we can talk all we want how we're not happy about certain directions, but no one wants to get out of their comfort zone to do anything about it.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by Dahkot72

    From they hyperspace beacon interview , this jumped out at me more than any of the crap James Clueless O had to say about PVP.

    The interviewer started off a question with this,

    "I love the overall vision for PvP in general, and it's been said that SWTOR has some of the most balanced PvP in MMOs. Where do you feel you sit with that balance currently? And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?"

     

    Mother of god , the person who did that interview makes the Jim Jones followers look reasonable and lucid.

     

     

    Larry Everett, he's on Gamebreaker too. Funny thing is he's an RP guy I think.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,928Member Uncommon

    This has been obvious since the beginning.  Just look at how they handled the Ilum patch with the valor exploits in January.  That was all I needed to know regarding how they would fix or not fix their game.  It's important for designers to have a clear vision, but they also need to be able to admit when they are wrong.

  • PainlezzPainlezz Laguna Hills, CAPosts: 616Member Uncommon

    Can only assume most of you don't work in the software industry?

     

    They cannot admit to failures or issues with the software.  It looks bad.  Just like they should never respond to personal insults or complaints.  As a company you respond with positive comments and things that really matter.

     

    Now, the way this guy responds is pretty terrible.  While I believe they should not feed the trolls by responding to them, they should also not allow this guy to ever write anything public for the company.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eycel

    I dont see where u guys are getting of on, I like SWOTOR and TSW rocks.

    This thread is worse then racist old people, Id rather listen to C-span then read this crap drivel.

    Unsurprising though, wouldn't you say, Eycel?  In general, forum participants are content dealing with half truths construed in whatever light their pre-concieved notions would support.

     

    I have plenty of criticisms of TOR, but the linked article is nowhere particularly arrogant.  In fact, I would say it is simply honest and refreshingly direct.

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ignore_me

    Originally posted by Dahkot72

    From they hyperspace beacon interview , this jumped out at me more than any of the crap James Clueless O had to say about PVP.

    The interviewer started off a question with this,

    "I love the overall vision for PvP in general, and it's been said that SWTOR has some of the most balanced PvP in MMOs. Where do you feel you sit with that balance currently? And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?"

     

    Mother of god , the person who did that interview makes the Jim Jones followers look reasonable and lucid.

     

     

    Larry Everett, he's on Gamebreaker too. Funny thing is he's an RP guy I think.

    Yup, he's all about the RP.  Taugrim, one of the most lucid and knowledgeable well-known PvP'ers, also from gamebreaker, has the same general opinion of TOR pvp as Larry Everett.

  • fadisfadis funkg, GAPosts: 469Member

    Project was probably just too big... too many cooks in the kitchen... too many people affected by the big development $$$ to actually make bold development decisions. 

    In the end - with all that money and all that theoretical "talent," it shouldn't been anything but bland.  But it was... bland.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Originally posted by Sorrow

     When they literally verbally attacked the SWTOR CB testers because we were offering feedback, called us idiots said they knew more than we ever would and we should bow down and worship them for allowing us to buy games from them well that was the point I was done with Bioware...

     

    FOREVER!

    Yep, I remember that. Specifically, it was George Zoeller who told us they didn't need our feedback. As long as we played, they got all the "metrics" they wanted and the rest was no concern. That was when I stopped even trying to suggest anything helpful and became a regular pain in EAware's ass on the forums.

    I remember that, it was after they let in a bunch more people in beta in August last year. First thing the testers did was complain about not having core features, lol.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    "And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?""

    they plan on looking at forums,and making knee jerk nerfs with no real in depth look at the actual class that the QQers are QQing about

    but whatever,saying you have the most balanced pvp in a mmo that all the serious pvpers eather left already.or are only playing because of other mmos not being out.isnt really something to brag about 

     

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Originally posted by Kickaxe

    Originally posted by ignore_me


    Originally posted by Dahkot72

    From they hyperspace beacon interview , this jumped out at me more than any of the crap James Clueless O had to say about PVP.

    The interviewer started off a question with this,

    "I love the overall vision for PvP in general, and it's been said that SWTOR has some of the most balanced PvP in MMOs. Where do you feel you sit with that balance currently? And what provisions have you taken to help maintain that balance or improve on it?"

     

    Mother of god , the person who did that interview makes the Jim Jones followers look reasonable and lucid.

     

     

    Larry Everett, he's on Gamebreaker too. Funny thing is he's an RP guy I think.

    Yup, he's all about the RP.  Taugrim, one of the most lucid and knowledgeable well-known PvP'ers, also from gamebreaker, has the same general opinion of TOR pvp as Larry Everett.

    Well Ed has been unhappy about the balance and time to kill since 1.2 hit. He expresses enthusiasm about the PvP on the show but he doesn't seem ecstatic about it. I agree the guy is smart and reasonable, but you have to admit that these guys are essentially the CNN team in Baghdad. They know if they piss off Saddam the signal gets cut at the source.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Hamilton, OHPosts: 325Member

    Bwaaaaaa they nerfed my Sith, Bioware are bad.

     

     

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon

    While I honestly liked my 2,5 months in SWTOR I wonder on what did they spend that astronomical budget. After trying TSW it was in so many aspects more unique and interesting, including story presentation which should have been TOR's trade mark, that I'm starting to think TOR development was mismanaged from start to end. And we know that FC does not have big budgets to blow like EA/BW. And what I've read about GW2 it's also way better than TOR even in beta stage.

    I know my opinion here is TSW fanboish but as I said I liked TOR playing my Sith Warrior until non existent end game. I just cannot understand how did they manage to fail in so many departments, turning thriving Star Wars universe into a lifless and sterile plastic.

  • BardusBardus Cornet, ALPosts: 460Member

    Originally posted by Piiritus

    While I honestly liked my 2,5 months in SWTOR I wonder on what did they spend that astronomical budget. After trying TSW it was in so many aspects more unique and interesting, including story presentation which should have been TOR's trade mark, that I'm starting to think TOR development was mismanaged from start to end. And we know that FC does not have big budgets to blow like EA/BW. And what I've read about GW2 it's also way better than TOR even in beta stage.

    I know my opinion here is TSW fanboish but as I said I liked TOR playing my Sith Warrior until non existent end game. I just cannot understand how did they manage to fail in so many departments, turning thriving Star Wars universe into a lifless and sterile plastic.

    To me DCUO is much better story telling than TOR. What was it's development cost? It has cut-scenes and all lol.

    image

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Doesn't surprise me in the least, I knew this games was going no where just a couple of hours into beta.   I was surprised I actually beta tested it for as long as I did before I deleted it from my HD.   I was really looking forward to a good MMO, what  I found in beta was far from it.   

    What is bad is that when I and others came forward and gave our opinions we were called trolls, haters and every other name under the sun for telling the truth and now...now many of those same people are on these very boards  saying the things some of us were telling you back when they dropped they dropped the NDA - before the game launched!  

    That's one of the reasons I stopped reviewing games.   Nobody cares to hear the truth.  Nobody cares about someone elses opinion, even if it means they could save themselves $60 or $150 dollars - they do not care.   So why should I care.  Waste your money on bad games.   Keep giving it to game companies that make half-baked games.   You can make bank that as long as people keep throwing money at bad games - you'll keep getting bad games.

     

    Oh hey about all those professional reviews!  How about them?  Huh...places giving the game - game of the year!  LMFAO!  

    image
  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Dallas, TXPosts: 954Member Uncommon

    I would agree. The people who designed this game just don't fucking get it, and while I'd love to say "I told ya so", I actually enjoyed TOR for a solid month despite the glaring flaws and shallow depth of gameplay.

     

    I hate myself for it.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    Doesn't surprise me in the least, I knew this games was going no where just a couple of hours into beta.   I was surprised I actually beta tested it for as long as I did before I deleted it from my HD.   I was really looking forward to a good MMO, what  I found in beta was far from it.   

    What is bad is that when I and others came forward and gave our opinions we were called trolls, haters and every other name under the sun for telling the truth and now...now many of those same people are on these very boards  saying the things some of us were telling you back when they dropped they dropped the NDA - before the game launched!  

    That's one of the reasons I stopped reviewing games.   Nobody cares to hear the truth.  Nobody cares about someone elses opinion, even if it means they could save themselves $60 or $150 dollars - they do not care.   So why should I care.  Waste your money on bad games.   Keep giving it to game companies that make half-baked games.   You can make bank that as long as people keep throwing money at bad games - you'll keep getting bad games.

     

    Oh hey about all those professional reviews!  How about them?  Huh...places giving the game - game of the year!  LMFAO!  

    You're still making little sense, Teala--still making the same mistakes.  Consider your overuse of the terms truth, trolls, and haters.  Are you certain those terms have any real applicability, and that they aren't simply cliches drawn from a well of false assumptions?  The terms are neutral because none of us here are certain to what and whom they can properly apply.  It is only ego that would make us believe otherwise.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kickaxe

    Originally posted by Teala

    Doesn't surprise me in the least, I knew this games was going no where just a couple of hours into beta.   I was surprised I actually beta tested it for as long as I did before I deleted it from my HD.   I was really looking forward to a good MMO, what  I found in beta was far from it.   

    What is bad is that when I and others came forward and gave our opinions we were called trolls, haters and every other name under the sun for telling the truth and now...now many of those same people are on these very boards  saying the things some of us were telling you back when they dropped they dropped the NDA - before the game launched!  

    That's one of the reasons I stopped reviewing games.   Nobody cares to hear the truth.  Nobody cares about someone elses opinion, even if it means they could save themselves $60 or $150 dollars - they do not care.   So why should I care.  Waste your money on bad games.   Keep giving it to game companies that make half-baked games.   You can make bank that as long as people keep throwing money at bad games - you'll keep getting bad games.

     

    Oh hey about all those professional reviews!  How about them?  Huh...places giving the game - game of the year!  LMFAO!  

    You're still making little sense, Teala--still making the same mistakes.  Consider your overuse of the terms truth, trolls, and haters.  Are you certain those terms have any real applicability, and that they aren't simply cliches drawn from a well of false assumptions?  The terms are neutral because none of us here are certain to what and whom they can properly apply.  It is only ego that would make us believe otherwise.



    You're a new poster here I take it.   You're clueless to the history I and others have on this board.  We that come forward and discuss games openly on this board are often shouted down by fans because we dared to critic or give an opinion that was not favorable to them.  

    As for making any sense....your response to what I said - made very little.   Saying terms like troll and hater are neutral.   LOL!

    image
  • KickaxeKickaxe Winnipeg, MBPosts: 92Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Kickaxe


    Originally posted by Teala

    Doesn't surprise me in the least, I knew this games was going no where just a couple of hours into beta.   I was surprised I actually beta tested it for as long as I did before I deleted it from my HD.   I was really looking forward to a good MMO, what  I found in beta was far from it.   

    What is bad is that when I and others came forward and gave our opinions we were called trolls, haters and every other name under the sun for telling the truth and now...now many of those same people are on these very boards  saying the things some of us were telling you back when they dropped they dropped the NDA - before the game launched!  

    That's one of the reasons I stopped reviewing games.   Nobody cares to hear the truth.  Nobody cares about someone elses opinion, even if it means they could save themselves $60 or $150 dollars - they do not care.   So why should I care.  Waste your money on bad games.   Keep giving it to game companies that make half-baked games.   You can make bank that as long as people keep throwing money at bad games - you'll keep getting bad games.

     

    Oh hey about all those professional reviews!  How about them?  Huh...places giving the game - game of the year!  LMFAO!  

    You're still making little sense, Teala--still making the same mistakes.  Consider your overuse of the terms truth, trolls, and haters.  Are you certain those terms have any real applicability, and that they aren't simply cliches drawn from a well of false assumptions?  The terms are neutral because none of us here are certain to what and whom they can properly apply.  It is only ego that would make us believe otherwise.



    You're a new poster here I take it.   You're clueless to the history I and others have on this board.  We that come forward and discuss games openly on this board are often shouted down by fans because we dared to critic or give an opinion that was not favorable to them.  

    As for making any sense....your response to what I said - made very little.   Saying terms like troll and hater are neutral.   LOL!

    I've read the forums here for years.  Don't be so quick to dismiss people or opinions based on unfamiliarity.  Also, you misunderstood my point.  I was not suggesting that 'troll' and 'hater' were emotionally neutral but rather that they are intellectually neutral in meaning within this discussion.  You and I, for instance, heaving insults at one another may yield much anger and frustration, and yet very little actual enlightenment on subject matter.  Daring to criticize and daring to be a fan are often two equal sides in an argument, wouldn't you say?

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,447Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teilo

    If the horse is dead, why do you insist on beating it?

     

    Over and over.

     

    Seriously, find a game you like and post something positive for a change.

    To ignore problems is the WORST reaction to take.If word gets out about a developer and it's poor managing of a game they will either fold up shop or get their act together.The problem of course is giants like EA can afford to just brush off losses and Blizzard makes millions off their lineup of VERY average low tech games.

    If as a player of ANY game it doesn't ,matter if it is SWTOR or Wow you want that game to be the very best it can be,you do NOT accomplish that by being passive or looking the other way or turning your cheek for another game.

    The term "casual gamer" has been thrown around a lot and i think over the last several years it has shown it's face.The more games cater to casual the more games are done wrong and die out quickly.Wow does not fall into the recent wave because it has it's battle.net following,it's Blizzard fanbolis and had no competition and was the benfactory of DSL making it affordable into all homes.Now a days there are different standards and much more competition for the dollar/sales,you make the game with EFFORT and do it RIGHT and it will last for a long time.

     

    I saw a lot of potential in SWTOR but the MOST important part of MMORPG's is NOT pvp, it is NOT casual,it is the combat and how it is structured.Combat needs depth [swtor does not have it] and it needs team work not pvp,as team work creates friends which creates long lasting communities.


    Samoan Diamond

  • hh33hh33 chicago, ILPosts: 55Member

    The really big shame is that we have had 2 major IP based MMOs come out in the past 2 years that both had unlimited upside if the production companies would bother to produce quality products.

     

    It is a sad state of affairs for the sector when Sci-Fi franchises like Star Wars and Star Trek both end up being total failures less than a year after their respective launch dates.

     

    There really is no excuse for either of these franchises to not consistently bag 1m+ paying customers per month w/high retention rates given their popularity.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    Originally posted by Cetra

    one reason why i really hate bioware. They dont own up to mistakes and truths and try to sugar coat the problems pissing you off even more.

    I really hate it when they say "we got a dedicated team working on blah blah blah" but that feature is always bugged or badly implemented.

    "Some people" have been hating Blizzard for the same thing for over 7 years now... and Warcraft still has over 10 million players =P

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • arctarusarctarus nilPosts: 2,570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan


    Originally posted by Cetra

    one reason why i really hate bioware. They dont own up to mistakes and truths and try to sugar coat the problems pissing you off even more.
    I really hate it when they say "we got a dedicated team working on blah blah blah" but that feature is always bugged or badly implemented.

    "Some people" have been hating Blizzard for the same thing for over 7 years now... and Warcraft still has over 10 million players =P

     

    And tor pop is tanking...

    RIP Orc Choppa

  • Rikus25Rikus25 Aubrey, TXPosts: 82Member

    This is very small. The game is fun but I have to agree that this game falls very short of a Virtual World that requires adventure and exploration. To say that this game is dead because of class imbalance is just as short sited as the devs comments. PvP is not the only thing that makes an MMORPG. Poor idea implementation, lack of crafting, lack of exploration, lack of pvp, lack of social PvE events as well as PvP events. The list can go on and on. Look outside the box just as you are demanding the devs too. You will find that the MMORPG genre is pretty dead all around not just SWTOR.

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