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this is how to improve the combat:

13

Comments

  • AceundorAceundor OsloPosts: 482Member

    TRY THE SKILLS LATER ON IN THE GAME!!

    Remember you have just tried the "noob" area and the "noob" skills. Keep your pants on and wait for what the 133t skills will do with regards to animation, effect and combat tacticks. 

    Originally posted by BishopB:

    Are a lot of the trolls just angry kids with old gaming hardware?

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    Does every weapon involve building "charges" to use for harder attacks, AOE and/or finisher attacks? And is this true of even higher tier attacks? If so, this should absolutely change, but I doubt it will.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lagoz


    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...
    there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

    The main reason people are dissing the combat is because it's not GW2 or Tera. Which in my opinion is completely wrong approach. The combat was supposed to be an upgrade from the traditional mmorpg combat and it certainly does that.  TSW has the best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpg's. Also the combat system feels dull at first but when you start realising the potential in terms of double finishers, debuffs chains, etc.. it gets a lot more interesting. It's not a flashy combat system it's a deep combat system.

    It's easy to rant about the combat when you play a limited beta with only the basic skills, fighting the weakest monsters in the game in a welcoming new player friendly zone. People went berserk about Tera having awful combat as it is before you hit higher levels. The same goes with TSW.

    If you don't enjoy the combat in TSW, move along. They are not going to change it in a month and for me that's a good thing.

    And for nice to know: I didn't enjoy GW2 combat that much. The dodge mechanic is gimmicky and the combat itself is a freaking chaotic spamfest Oo

     

     

    It's not that deep. My EQ2 dirge has over 60 buttons on his action bar of which 30 or so are actively used in combat. I can not possibly just spam buttons at random so you have to do things like plan your strategy around things like how much health the mob has left, who else is in the fight and what kinds of buffs/debuffs they have, does the current stage of the script require you to be in a certain location, does anyone need buffs, heals, rezes, etc. etc. TSW's system has a much more detailed way to setup my toon before the fight starts but much fewer options on how to execute that fight once you press the first combat once you start a fight. There is no means to swap weapons in combat which would make it more tactical. Nor is there a way to swap skills in combat which would do the same (maybe have a system where you can build points in combat that you can spend by swapping weapons/skiills?). The building attacks that you spend on finishers isn't really a unique or particularly interesting system to me especially when your options for active finishers is so limited.
  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Originally posted by dumbo11

    Short answer "have less combat".

    The game is very niche, and that niche is all to do with the world, lore and puzzles.  I don't think anyone is going to play TSW because "they want to beat zombies up, over and over and over again".

    Make combat harder, but make it less frequent.

     

    That is a good point.  Almost seems like that's what the devs had in mind, but were afraid to take it all the way.  Also, would be cool if there were lots of non-combat skills along the wheel, and RP stuff to flesh out the atmosphere with.  Then I might be more inclined to agree with the "total freedom" bit, too.

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Originally posted by Lagoz

     The combat was supposed to be an upgrade from the traditional mmorpg combat and it certainly does that.  TSW has the best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpg's. Also the combat system feels dull at first but when you start realising the potential in terms of double finishers, debuffs chains, etc.. it gets a lot more interesting. It's not a flashy combat system it's a deep combat system.

    It's easy to rant about the combat when you play a limited beta with only the basic skills, fighting the weakest monsters in the game in a welcoming new player friendly zone. People went berserk about Tera having awful combat as it is before you hit higher levels. The same goes with TSW.

    If you don't enjoy the combat in TSW, move along. They are not going to change it in a month and for me that's a good thing.

    And for nice to know: I didn't enjoy GW2 combat that much. The dodge mechanic is gimmicky and the combat itself is a freaking chaotic spamfest Oo

     

    Best combat system of all the previous traditional hotkey mmorpgs? Don't make me laugh, its more like the bottom 10. Its terrible and the vast majority agree, which is why you see so many threads like this and Funcom has said they are already working on it.

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    The only thing that needs to be worked on is the animations, so that they look really cool. Everything else is just fine.

    Oh.. and you can actually dodge attacks in the current system. You only need to do a step to the left or the right, when you see the white cone on the ground.

    Seriously. I don't want something ala TERA or GW2 as a combat-system. If I'm interested in action combat, then I go play something like Unreal or SoulCalibur. In TSW I'm looking forward to a slower paced and more ressource-based combat system, which is just fine.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dumbo11

    Short answer "have less combat".

    The game is very niche, and that niche is all to do with the world, lore and puzzles.  I don't think anyone is going to play TSW because "they want to beat zombies up, over and over and over again".

    Make combat harder, but make it less frequent.

    Amen to this.  Look at EQ1, defeating a mob in that (while too slow) was a big deal.  Pulling the mobs was a mini game unto itself.

    OP:  the combat does not need to be faster, it's plenty fast as it is.  It needs to be more tactical.  I should need to pay attention to what the mob is doing or I will pay dearly.  Less fights but tougher fights is definitely the way to go.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    Let me just state this need for an action combat is rubbish.  I listened to Total Biscuit's mailbag (May 7th edition) and he is pretty much saying the way of hot bar combat is going away.  I disagreed with him there and I DISAGREE WITH YOU NOW.  Hotbar, tab target combat is here to stay and I know plenty of MMO gamers who enjoy that style way more because it feels more organic to the genre, and doesnt make you have to have the hand/eye coordination of a twitch gamer.

     

    An active dodge button would be kind of cool, but then again TSW is not suited to it because they have things like block parry and dodge on top of defense ratings.

     

    Animations are being worked on but they wont drastically change heres a snippit from one of the blog posts the other day:

    EDITOR's NOTE: Since publishing this article, we've heard some feedback from Funcom about our concerns with character creation and the animations. Our Funcom source told us that the character creation is indeed very much limited in this beta build, and will be more fully fleshed out in the future with options and the like. As for animations, Erling explained two things. One is that there are many animations which are not yet final in this build. The second part is that because of the team's decision to allow characters to move while casting skills, they had to untie the upper body from the lower body in the animations. This means there will be times when swinging a sword or using your fist weapons will look odd, but it's the price they've had to pay for allowing players the ability to move while attacking at any time. Basically, it becomes more difficult to structure animations that always look perfect when the characters can't move during the animations.

    Disagree all you want but its not going to change and for once a developer has the balls to come out and tell you why they did soemthing the way they did.  I like the candidness.

     

    I think you crazy if you think the sound was bad, to me its some of the nost immersive of any MMO I have ever played.  From authentic rifle sounds to the whipping of a hammer through the air as it crunches against the side of a zombies head.  Funcom got this right.

     

    Again most of your things you want changed are opinionated which has no bearing on anyone other then yourself, its like me asking for McDonalds to change the Special Sauce on their Big Mac because I dislike the Mayonaise in it.  Just because you do not like it does not give you the right to change it for others.

     

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Gw2 doesn't have action combat, its not that different to tsw but with dodging.

    I slightly prefer gw2 combat.

    Tsw combat I like, its better than your typical wow type combat. The people not liking the combat, I suspect they were trying to play tsw combat like it was wow clone combat. That won't work, your damage will suck and you will get hurt a lot. You can't stand there spamming a rotation.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    It needs however.
    Better animations, especially for jump and turning with pistols.
    Better sounds on pistols and assault rifle
    Age of conan style fatalities
    Slightly faster movement
    Better help on explaining how to build an effective deck - double finishers, event chains, auto builders etc..
  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    Does every weapon involve building "charges" to use for harder attacks, AOE and/or finisher attacks? And is this true of even higher tier attacks? If so, this should absolutely change, but I doubt it will.

    in a way but dont look at it as charges.  Look at it like this.  Most ranged weapons may allow you to build charges but only a few do more damage with more charges.  So in other words you can build to 1 or 2 charges and do a finisher and hit just as hard as someone with 5.

     

    Also Melee starts with 5 charges so its more "bursty" orientated which is nice.

     

    Magic is more traditional and requires more charges then the other but the beauty of this system is that all your other skills i.e. melee and ranged skills not only build those charges but also magic charges, so its fun to do things like hammer swing till 2 charges and do a melee finisher, hammer swing till 3 charges (note will have 5 magic charges at this point) do another melee finisher followed by an immediate Thor's Hammer Magic finisher, which was the hardest hitting ability you could get in this weekends beta event.  It was very fun.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    It needs however.

    Better animations, especially for jump and turning with pistols.

    Better sounds on pistols and assault rifle

    Age of conan style fatalities

    Slightly faster movement

    Better help on explaining how to build an effective deck - double finishers, event chains, auto builders etc..

    I agree on the AC fatalities but it wont chage my mind if it did or did not have them.  I didnt have problems with any animations.  The movement was fine if you remember to hit your sprint key after every combat.

     

    As for help explaining or building better decks, then this game is not designed to coddle you, feed you a bottle and burp you before putting you down for a nap, in other words its not designed to babysit you.  If you need that then look elsewhere.  Or at the very least look at the pre-constructed decks and go from there.  But for me I love the deck system as its very remeniscent of a cross between an Asherons Call and a Magic the Gathering and its the best character system I have ever seen.!!!!!!!!!

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Yalexy

    The only thing that needs to be worked on is the animations, so that they look really cool. Everything else is just fine.

    Oh.. and you can actually dodge attacks in the current system. You only need to do a step to the left or the right, when you see the white cone on the ground.

    Seriously. I don't want something ala TERA or GW2 as a combat-system. If I'm interested in action combat, then I go play something like Unreal or SoulCalibur. In TSW I'm looking forward to a slower paced and more ressource-based combat system, which is just fine.

    You dodge AOE's but targeted attacks will home in on your no matter what you do.  You can even move behind a tree and the ability to home around/though the tree to hit you.

    How is TSW resource based combat?  You build 5 points which you can spend in two pools.  I guess thats a form of resource based combat but it's not a very highly evolved one.  I could program macros on my mouse to build/spend the resources just as easily as I could do it myself and be fine 90%+ of the time.

    Combat is unimaginative and bland.  The potintial is there for requiring some thought as to what 7 active and passive skills you pick before a fight but once you hit that first attack key things go downhill fast.  And really in the end how much will you spend setting up for a fight compared to how much time will you spend acually fighting?  is it even 1% setup to 99% fighting?

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,246Member Uncommon

    In other words, make it DCUO...

    Not that I'm disagreeing...

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    the game doesnt necessarily need to have action combat - gw2 doesnt really have true action combat either - but it "pretends" to have action combat by having great animations that give you the feel of dynamic, action, impact etc...i stated this in my original post - the combat in tsw is sluggish, slow and  boring - maybe in the end game that is much much better (there is a combat video on gamespot that shows high level combat and it looks as rubbish as low level combat if not even more due to really bad skill animations -backflipp-) but why would i want to invest hours into a combat i dont enjoy just to maybe get to a point i do?

    and regarding what was said about animations being difficult to produce  - rubbish! thats a typical funcome response for we couldnt pull it off - look at all the other games that have as many skill options and do a much better job at it (tera nd gw2 to just name too, there is a list on the official forums, i think especially tera has 2-3x as many skill combinations)

    and i would laugh at any dev that tells me what i see in the beta - 1 month before release and were talking about funcom - is way worse and gets improved massivily up release - its simply rubbish

    besides this is the post stating that animations wont change that much till launch: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/404/view/forums/thread/351030/What-you-see-now-is-what-you-get-as-far-as-animations-go.html

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    the game doesnt necessarily need to have action combat - gw2 doesnt really have true action combat either - but it "pretends" to have action combat by having great animations that give you the feel of dynamic, action, impact etc...i stated this in my original post - the combat in tsw is sluggish, slow and  boring - maybe in the end game that is much much better (there is a combat video on gamespot that shows high level combat and it looks as rubbish as low level combat if not even more due to really bad skill animations -backflipp-) but why would i want to invest hours into a combat i dont enjoy just to maybe get to a point i do?
    and regarding what was said about animations being difficult to produce  - rubbish! thats a typical funcome response for we couldnt pull it off - look at all the other games that have as many skill options and do a much better job at it (tera nd gw2 to just name too, there is a list on the official forums, i think especially tera has 2-3x as many skill combinations)
    and i would laugh at any dev that tells me what i see in the beta - 1 month before release and were talking about funcom - is way worse and gets improved massivily up release - its simply rubbish
    besides this is the post stating that animations wont change that much till launch: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/404/view/forums/thread/351030/What-you-see-now-is-what-you-get-as-far-as-animations-go.html

     

    I believe what the devs have said is that the animations and character creation options will be improved but they have not said when. Of course they won't be able to improve them by launch much if at all so we are stuck with a vague someday it will get better promise. IMO that's BS, if they are unhappy to the point of saying improvements are needed than delay the launch. Launching a half assed attempt at a good game and expecting people to buy/sub to it is just lame. You only get to launch a game once and no matter how much you fix it afterwards you never get a second chance.
  • cukimungacukimunga Dacono, COPosts: 2,259Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

    there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

    Well if you remember Funcom tried different combat with AoC, I think they went back to their roots and made an upgrade of AO combat which I enjoyed.   So what the combat isn't cutting edge, that is NOT what needs to change in the MMO genre.. SETTING is one of the things that needs to change in MMO's as well with more non themepartk games..  While this isn't my ideal MMORPG, I really enjoy the setting enough to deal with the themepark gameplay. 

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by cukimunga

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    the combat is fine yea right thats why the game recieves all the hate mostly for combat and animations - just your answer "the perfect repetition" shows that you live in the past my friend - its time to move into the future - if this game cannot manage this while other games do that are not even pay to play...the game will fail, funcome will fail again...potentially the last time...

    there is a reason gw2 has a huge fan base and ravaging reviews...there is a reason tsw doesnt, there is a reason mmo marekts are declining and that everyone is bored by the tried and true... there is a reason nokia is going down while apple is thriving - markets move and you have to follow - or die

    Well if you remember Funcom tried different combat with AoC, I think they went back to their roots and made an upgrade of AO combat which I enjoyed.   So what the combat isn't cutting edge, that is NOT what needs to change in the MMO genre.. SETTING is one of the things that needs to change in MMO's as well with more non themepartk games..  While this isn't my ideal MMORPG, I really enjoy the setting enough to deal with the themepark gameplay. 

    i disagree

    setting, story and atmosphere (and graphics) is what gets you interested in a game

    but combat and questing mechanics (especially for groupes) is what keeps you playing... if they dont change things and bring up interresting pvp modes, im afraid people will just play the game once and thats it - thats also what a lot of the closed beta testers said, that they dont see anyone playing the game anymore once the story is done

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    2) no i mean dodge as in dodge: - that video is also a good example of how combat should "feel" in terms of impact

    Its not designed to be a FPS. At some point you have to deal with that fact

    4) lol...yea maybe they should stopp making games if they are not willing to make games people like to look at...why not stick to rock-paper-scissors for future funcome games?

    Its a niche game made for a select crowd. if they wanted to do a lowest common denominator game, then we would expect a very diffrent and dumbed down product

    That said, There is a point where you have to say, Hey this game is comprised of these "Core components" our target market will be drawn to these components. adding additional "stuff" wont yeild more players if they dont like the core components.


    5) the sounds are not only horrible (i mean effects from attacks/weapons not music) - everybody that has ever fired a gun in his life will tell you the same

    Its fake. its an exchange of numbers, sound effects help enforce a sense of realism but if you wanted exact realism go fire a gun in real life.

    6) have to do that

    mokay

    7) ....yea the its only the beta argument...if i only got 10 bucks for every time i heard that..i probably bought funcom by now


    No...weather the locked skills are good or not is irrelevant, However it will add more complexity the more skills are available.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development


  • Originally posted by Lagoz

    The combat is fine as it is.

    Speeding it up would make it impossible to follow the perfect rotation.

    We have other games like Tera and GW2 with action-oriented combat.

    If a game has perfect rotations then its combat is not fine.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    funny people keep bringing up its BETA. Game is set to release in a month. TERAs animations and combat did not change from CB1


    Maybe because it was already released in Asia for 12 months?

    Now just for humor, what were the comments a month prior to releasing in asia?

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  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Richmond Hill, ONPosts: 533Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    This game isn't for you.

  • TurkeyBurgerTurkeyBurger Charlotte, NCPosts: 49Member

    So I am playing the beta. The first weapon you get is the shotgun. The first attack you get is to fire the shotgun.

    No tab targeting, no target needed to fire. You pull the trigger and you blast the shotgun. FREE AIM! Action combat Anytime you want to fire the shotgun you fire it. At whatever enemy you want. Aim with skill and action combat. 

    I was like OH SHIT this game is going to be amazing! Then once I started to use other abilities I saw it for what it was. You had to tab target enemies and use abilities in a tab target ALA Wow wait for cooldowns manner. No free action based skill combat.

    The pistols? Absolutly NO as in ZERO free aim like the shotgun has. You do not just aim and shoot the guns. You HAVE to have an enemy tab targeted. The rifle? Same thing complete 180 from the first attack with the shotgun. It is like they tease you with one single free aim action skill based ability with one gun, and the rest is all tab target combat.

    They might as well take it out because it was such a tease and a gigantic let down.

  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by TurkeyBurger

    So I am playing the beta. The first weapon you get is the shotgun. The first attack you get is to fire the shotgun.

    No tab targeting, no target needed to fire. You pull the trigger and you blast the shotgun. FREE AIM! Action combat Anytime you want to fire the shotgun you fire it. At whatever enemy you want. Aim with skill and action combat. 

    I was like OH SHIT this game is going to be amazing! Then once I started to use other abilities I saw it for what it was. You had to tab target enemies and use abilities in a tab target ALA Wow wait for cooldowns manner. No free action based skill combat.

    The pistols? Absolutly NO as in ZERO free aim like the shotgun has. You do not just aim and shoot the guns. You HAVE to have an enemy tab targeted. The rifle? Same thing complete 180 from the first attack with the shotgun. It is like they tease you with one single free aim action skill based ability with one gun, and the rest is all tab target combat.

    They might as well take it out because it was such a tease and a gigantic let down.

    Wow didnt invent tab tagerting.

    Just wanted to make you aware.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by TurkeyBurger

    So I am playing the beta. The first weapon you get is the shotgun. The first attack you get is to fire the shotgun.

    No tab targeting, no target needed to fire. You pull the trigger and you blast the shotgun. FREE AIM! Action combat Anytime you want to fire the shotgun you fire it. At whatever enemy you want. Aim with skill and action combat. 

    I was like OH SHIT this game is going to be amazing! Then once I started to use other abilities I saw it for what it was. You had to tab target enemies and use abilities in a tab target ALA Wow wait for cooldowns manner. No free action based skill combat.

    The pistols? Absolutly NO as in ZERO free aim like the shotgun has. You do not just aim and shoot the guns. You HAVE to have an enemy tab targeted. The rifle? Same thing complete 180 from the first attack with the shotgun. It is like they tease you with one single free aim action skill based ability with one gun, and the rest is all tab target combat.

    They might as well take it out because it was such a tease and a gigantic let down.

     

    I noticed that too.  Made me wonder why they don't just make half the weapons free-aim and half of them tab targetting.  Players could just pick what they prefer, and both sides would be happy.  I mean, its obvious that the mechanics are there, so should be easy to take advantage of.. but for whatever crazy reason, no, they just tease the player at the beginning, before pushing them into the worst tab target combat I've seen in a long time.  They could at least just make it optional.  That'd probably go a really long way towards improving average impressions.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

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