You forgot to mention one critical point - EVE is pvp-centric. More specifically you can be attacked by other players anywhere. For an admitted care bear like me that is a game breaker. Yes, I do think that Eve deserves this score - it is a fantastic game. I enjoyed it for over 45 days. But after being ganked in 0.9 space twice I gave up. Yup I could not cut it. On to the next mmo.
Some aspects of Eve intrigue me, but the other aspects like PVP and losing everything you've earned really turn me off..... I've read too many horror stories of vets taht do nothing but gank newer players all the time and that is their thrill of the game.....If they took away the PVP I would probably give it a serious go but the way the game is set up now no thanks.
Not really true. If i went back and started playing again and I undocked in an expensively loaded hauler, or went to low sec or null sec, I would very very likely be unceremoniously murdered by a bunch (5 to 100+ players spawncamping vs me) of relatively new players. Vet > Newb in EvE, Numbers spawncamping a gate > Newb or Vet.
Sadly due to some very poor decisions by CCP the emphasis in EvE is on outblobbing your opponent. There is really little skill consideration or emphasis on age of players in pvp so as long as you have lots of friends (join a big corp / alliance) you will be fine.
If you had 10 veterans with great skills, + great player skill and 20 newbs came along they're still probably wipe the floor with the vets. Doesn't take skill or veteran skillpoints to jam a ship.
S13 E141 of Misconceptions of EVE
1.) You are not your ship. The whole game revolves around having many ships. You can only fly one, and lose that, and even if it was expensive, it wasn't all. If it was "all you worked for" in same egg basket its back to elementary school for you. The most repeated idea in EVE is "do not fly what you can't afford to lose", this transfers not only to the "you're not your ship" but to the fact that you can fly any ship, without losing it, at least long enough, to turn the ship into profit high enough, to have many ships. Ganking is extremely rare, if dont' do stupid things.
2.) Spawn camping, ie. waiting on the other side of the gate for people traveling through (cloak, interdiction). Its your own foult if you travel in highly valuable ship without scouting straight into, what is usually very predictable, gate camp. There is methods to avoid them completely when solo, and with a scout you can easily reach 100% safety. Consider a scout shuttle 24,000 isk investment of checking gate camps.
3.) Outblobbing / outnumbering. In a gate camp situation, there are dozens of options for lesser numbered force to beat vastly higher numbered camps. Tier 3 Battlecruisers, Cynabals, or other kite and range combinations. Brutal force by any numeber of Dominixes. 4 Dominixes can easily sustain a typical gate camp of atleast 10, but up to 30. Typhoon or few. Gatecamp is nothing but an obstacle set by human players, that you'll peek into with a scout and murder with carefully chosen handful, or completely avoid with ease.
4.) Outblobbing in massive fleet fights. More is always unarguably more, but in EVE avoiding fights is relatively easy, commiting is a choise and doing mistakes is your own fault. One uses scouts information to decide if you avoid or commit, if you commit you can always choose to commit so that you have a way out. More in numebrs does not always win, fleet types and purposes matter, logistics matter. There are literally thousands of stories where smaller gang beats larger ones. And as many in which fleet made an error, got cought by massive force, and still managed to get out with minimal losses. Super Capitals is probably the only situation where having more of single ship type is simply vastly better than having even slightly less, but lets give it ~60 billion ISK a piece, they're supposed to be above everything else.
5.) Having 5 veterans with mediocre skill (say, 7mil, 6 months of playing) in right ships, coordinated and well commanded fleet is vastly better than 20 monkeys flying what ever they managed to get together, even if it has electronic jammers. It doesn't take skill to initiate jam, but with skill you never have the chance to.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
"1.) You are not your ship. The whole game revolves around having many ships. You can only fly one, and lose that, and even if it was expensive, it wasn't all. If it was "all you worked for" in same egg basket its back to elementary school for you. The most repeated idea in EVE is "do not fly what you can't afford to lose", this transfers not only to the "you're not your ship" but to the fact that you can fly any ship, without losing it, at least long enough, to turn the ship into profit high enough, to have many ships. Ganking is extremely rare, if dont' do stupid things.
2.) Spawn camping, ie. waiting on the other side of the gate for people traveling through (cloak, interdiction). Its your own foult if you travel in highly valuable ship without scouting straight into, what is usually very predictable, gate camp. There is methods to avoid them completely when solo, and with a scout you can easily reach 100% safety. Consider a scout shuttle 24,000 isk investment of checking gate camps.
3.) Outblobbing / outnumbering. In a gate camp situation, there are dozens of options for lesser numbered force to beat vastly higher numbered camps. Tier 3 Battlecruisers, Cynabals, or other kite and range combinations. Brutal force by any numeber of Dominixes. 4 Dominixes can easily sustain a typical gate camp of atleast 10, but up to 30. Typhoon or few. Gatecamp is nothing but an obstacle set by human players, that you'll peek into with a scout and murder with carefully chosen handful, or completely avoid with ease.
4.) Outblobbing in massive fleet fights. More is always unarguably more, but in EVE avoiding fights is relatively easy, commiting is a choise and doing mistakes is your own fault. One uses scouts information to decide if you avoid or commit, if you commit you can always choose to commit so that you have a way out. More in numebrs does not always win, fleet types and purposes matter, logistics matter. There are literally thousands of stories where smaller gang beats larger ones. And as many in which fleet made an error, got cought by massive force, and still managed to get out with minimal losses. Super Capitals is probably the only situation where having more of single ship type is simply vastly better than having even slightly less, but lets give it ~60 billion ISK a piece, they're supposed to be above everything else.
5.) Having 5 veterans with mediocre skill (say, 7mil, 6 months of playing) in right ships, coordinated and well commanded fleet is vastly better than 20 monkeys flying what ever they managed to get together, even if it has electronic jammers. It doesn't take skill to initiate jam, but wit
1. Completely missed my point. I played EvE from 2003 for many years. I'm well aware of the "you are not your ship" and "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" catchphrases. The point I was making is its not Vets ganking newbs that you need to worry about its gangs ganking anyone and anything that you need to worry about
2. Complete non-sense. Spawn camping is 99% of PvP in EvE. If you jump into a system without a scout / covert ops enabled ship and theres a camp on the other side with instalock tackle you will die and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it unless you use the log off before decloak which is lame. Yes you can use a scout for a plex or an extra 15 dollars per month but a requirement to metagame simply to travel to avoid spawn camping ganks is not something that I'd be bragging about as a developer.
3. Again complete rubbish. In EvE you have numbers you have victory. Has always been that way since about 2004. There are zero tactics, no terrain, no obstacles, no outflanking, outthinking, only outblobbing. EvE is purely strategy, and the only strat that works is hot dropping huge numbers on smaller numbers or sitting at a gate with 100's of players waiting for a solo player to haplessly jump through the gate. I understand you are a fan but I played the game for 7 years, I soloed, was in Stain Alliance in 0.0, was a low sec pirate, miner, mission runner, did wormholes, founded the privateer alliance and then was a solo war deccer. I know EvE. Cut the bull about smaller smarter gangs beating larger dumber blobs with skill.
4. More nonsense. Show me the evidence of thousands of battles where smaller gangs beat larger blobs. There are bound to be killmails to back the stories up. Where are they?
5. No not true unless they seriously nerfed ecm. A week old newb can permajam any ship in game except the caps. 20 newbs with a jammer each or 5 newbs with ecm ships = dead vets.
Before you respond with more catchphrase I'll give you an example of one of the idiotic ideas implemented by CCP:
In EvE you have gang bonuses, gang modules and gang skills. These bonuses, modules and skills increase your 'stats' massively, up to 27.5%. In theory is kindof a cool idea however you need to look at the way it actually works and you will see a massive problem with it:
Gang of 10 people with bonuses vs Gang of 10 people without bonuses = gange of 12 people vs gang of 10 people. Gang at disadvantage must bring more players because bonuses mean the equal 10 really is 10 X .27%. With 100 players it would be an extra 27 players.
Gang of 10 people with bonuses vs Gang of 5 people with bonuses = gang of 12 people vs gang of 6 people.
Gang of 1 person with gang skills (person gets no bonus) vs gang of 2 people with bonuses = gang of 1 person vs gang of 2.5 people.
Gang of 1 person with gang skills (person gets no bonus) vs gang of 2 people with no skills in gangs = gang of 1 person vs gang of 2 people.
As you can see the the gang system always favors the people who already have the advantage. In a situation where both teams are equal and both have gang bonuses which is the normal situation then the gang bonuses cancel each other out and there are no benefits. In short the gang bonuses are essentially only useful to gangs if they already have a numbers advantage or in the extremely unlikely situation where the other gang has no gang boosters.
What this leads to is a see saw effect where both sides must bring more people to a fight otherwise its instant lose. And this leads to the blobs, which leads to the lag, which leads to the node crashes which leads ot this post.
1. Completely missed my point. I played EvE from 2003 for many years. I'm well aware of the "you are not your ship" and "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" catchphrases. The point I was making is its not Vets ganking newbs that you need to worry about its gangs ganking anyone and anything that you need to worry about
2. Complete non-sense. Spawn camping is 99% of PvP in EvE. If you jump into a system without a scout / covert ops enabled ship and theres a camp on the other side with instalock tackle you will die and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it unless you use the log off before decloak which is lame. Yes you can use a scout for a plex or an extra 15 dollars per month but a requirement to metagame simply to travel to avoid spawn camping ganks is not something that I'd be bragging about as a developer.
3. Again complete rubbish. In EvE you have numbers you have victory. Has always been that way since about 2004. There are zero tactics, no terrain, no obstacles, no outflanking, outthinking, only outblobbing. EvE is purely strategy, and the only strat that works is hot dropping huge numbers on smaller numbers or sitting at a gate with 100's of players waiting for a solo player to haplessly jump through the gate. I understand you are a fan but I played the game for 7 years, I soloed, was in Stain Alliance in 0.0, was a low sec pirate, miner, mission runner, did wormholes, founded the privateer alliance and then was a solo war deccer. I know EvE. Cut the bull about smaller smarter gangs beating larger dumber blobs with skill.
4. More nonsense. Show me the evidence of thousands of battles where smaller gangs beat larger blobs. There are bound to be killmails to back the stories up. Where are they?
5. No not true unless they seriously nerfed ecm. A week old newb can permajam any ship in game except the caps. 20 newbs with a jammer each or 5 newbs with ecm ships = dead vets.
1.) So is it now Vets being better than Newbs, or Newb gangs being better than Vets? Gangs being better than Gangs?
2.) Spawn camping and jumping into a system without scouts or intel might have been 99% of what you did or saw, doesn'tmake it the reality that most of the PVP doesn't work this way. Also to be noted that logging before decloak doesn't work, and you completely ignore the interdiction nullifier (bubbles dont effect you) and core stabs (you cant be pointed) making traveling even solo 100% safe, if you aint a prick. It also doesn't cost anything to start a trial account and podfly it to check your route in a pod/free ship. Alternatively, you can have friends and intel.
3.) "No terrain"
- Wormhole space gives bonuses / penaulty that effectively change totally how ship functions in different environment.
- Gates, POS's, Stations, Jump Bridges, Complexes, Asteroid Belts, Mission pockets all have different environmental rules that effectively make them "terrain" in space. Infact the knowledge of the terrain you are in, is a key essence of achieving upper hand in the environment. Ever got stuck into asteroids, or saved by knowing accerelation gate mechanics?
"No obstacles"
Its space. WTF. Anyhow, pushing someone far from station exit would be alot easier if there wouldn't be said station as an obstacle. Or landing a capital jump next to POS would not be tricky, if hitting the obstacle wouldn't shoot you into depth of space where no one hears you screaming.
"No out flanking"
Long range fleet, say Machariel, Cynabal, Hyena, Rapier, Arazu, Scimitar for remote repairs and two scouts in stealth bombers. They need to stay in max range to able to kill but not get killed. This fleet of 8 can take on any fleet up to 30 as long as they manage to stay in range of 30-50. Those two scouts make warp in locations around the enemy in such fashion, that this fleet constantly flanks the enemy to their own optimal range. Similar strategy is used by Drakes, Artillery Hurricane, HAC's and any Sniper fleets. Flanking can also be done by going around in a loop of systems to enter into the enemy system through a better position gate, for example to go around camped gate or to create a murder camp behind enemy into direction where they're most likely fleeing.
"No out thinking".
Seriously? This is not Sparta, You Simply Do Not Lemming Into 6VDT. Out thinking the enemy is exactly what the whole of EVE is about.
4. Numbers always wins?
Gang of 6 against 14. Gate camp situation, enemy has ECM, friendly doesn't, easy win.
One of my all time favourite fights. 330 of us in battlecruisers against 190 of them with the 50 Super Capitals and 20 Triage Carrier fleet on the field, basically the ultimate of "drop in as much as you can" fleet, worth at least 2500 billion ISK in Titans only, against our 3 billion ISK Battlecruiser gang. Still won, and could have kept murdering them endlessly simply because of extremely strategically developed and managed fleet composition and good fleet commanders.
5. ECM Perma Jam? Its been percentage based chance for years, greatly reduced by simply fitting counter measures. Know your enemy, fit ECCM. Countering ECM isn't that hard.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
That is pretty impressive. I would suggest to you though that the majority of pvp is absolutely not like that, its blob warefare, and the rest happens at gates. As a goon former goon or affiliated goon you would know that.
How many times did you try stuff like that and get blown to shite? I bet 9 out of 10 times or more.
Imo biased review, but then again I don't like EVE. Put someone like me at the wheel of a review and it would probably get a 6 tops (for effort).
I tried the game. Twice. Once years ago and a few months back for a second time. However, the biggest problem I have with EVE; I don't want to fly around in a ship. I like my games character based, not vehicle based (that's actually the reason I re-tried it some time ago, because of the added avatar possibilities).
My 2nd big problem with EVE is the FFA PvP. I HATE HATE HATE HATE that. Did I mention I hate it?
Anyway, long story short; for the intended target audience, sure this game deserves that score.
For the average mmorpg player though; not even close!
EvE was a good game in the beginning. I played it for 7 years and watched it go from pretty damn addictive to just complete rusbbish.
Maybe they cleaned it up some since I left last year but it failed pretty hard in 2011.
The main issues with it were:
* inability to progress without joining the botter alliances
* developers too cozy with the alliances / actively playing characters inside these alliances
* pay to win (plex -> isk)
* requirement to box
* terrible lag in battles
* moon goo imbalances
* extreme difficulty of soloing
* isk farmers / botters / macroers
* RMT'rs
* poor support
* too many bugs / imbalances (hyrbrids are a great example) ignored for years in favor of new crap content
I could go on forever, terrible terrible developers, aweful game now. I'd give it a 4 out of 10 whereas before it was a 9/10 (2003-2005)
I was Infinity Ziona in EvE in case someone wants to accuse me of having never played it.
Greetings. I remember you. I won't say who I was.... for I failed at EvE, let's just say I made Daniel Jackson look good.
I agree with many of the issues that you pointed out, some of those have been issues for quite a few years now.
I left because I could not compete in my chosen profession... I was a Miner, one of the olds ones.... I was Mining before Exodus and long after that. I thought the Barges were a god send... now I see them as a curse.
I Mined the roids and hauled ore and loved it. I mined for hours, days, weeks.... for my Corp Mates so they could get their ships built, or replace their ships, while I volunteered to have my order for my ships put to the bottom of the list so others could benefit, and therefore the corp could benefit. I never could handle PvP, in EvE I panicked in PvP even though in DAoC I was always in the Frontiers... that is the difference between FFA PvP and RvR "safe" PvP.
However, since I would not use Bots, and I refused to run 2 or more accounts constantly, I was told I was un-needed. My Corp said they could only use me if I was willing to PvP 100%. There really is nothing worse that Players can say to another Player in a MMO like EvE as far as I am concerned.
From my point of view I believe CCP is perfectly willing to turn a blind eye to mining bots because then more real players ingame are PvPers.... more pew pew. CCP loves multiboxing because it means more money in subs. It's their game, their choice.
I don't agree with CCP's decision to make ISK trading "legal" with PLEX, I would rather they had made it all a bannable offense and actually enforced it, however this part did not affect me much. I managed to ignore that it was going on ingame most of the time.... but as time went on it became very apparent tht even casual players where buying advantage and in EvE it really does matter what the other Players do. I knew my time in EvE was over.
See the text of yours I highlighted in red: Actually, they don't. When the patch came out that removed drone alloys, CCP also secretly went and blocked the accounts of as many mining botters as they could find. That's one of the reasons why the mineral prices have spiked so much recently.
If they would only revamp the 0.0 mechanics to break up with the too static powerblobs
It's pretty funny to note that most of those powerblocs have broken up since that post was made. Only the CFC remains intact - all the others are dead or failing.
If they would only revamp the 0.0 mechanics to break up with the too static powerblobs
It's pretty funny to note that most of those powerblocs have broken up since that post was made. Only the CFC remains intact - all the others are dead or failing.
Hey now Malcanis, we are doing alright as well. We don't need a sea of blue to maintain strategic partnerships
I'm a bit bewildered when the reviewer talked about alts being essential to the game. You can only train one character at a time and there's no skill cap, so unless you're spying on a rival corp, you may as well be the same character the whole time, and train them in whatever you need. I suppose if you think you'll need a presence in different parts of the universe you might use alts...
Pricewise, I agree with the review. It's reasonable for the scale of game you get, but I still only find myself subbing when they send a 2 month, $20 special via email. If they did what LotRO did and offered that or a 3 months/$30 permanent option, I might stay subbed indefinitely.
Lastly, I'm not sure what one poster was saying when they said you had to access tiers of menus in order to enter combat. Maybe it was that way 9 years ago, but it couldn't be much simpler, now. You click on the target, press the target hotkey, click which weapons to fire(which now can be grouped). All those things are on screen and are not buried in any menu.
I'm a bit bewildered when the reviewer talked about alts being essential to the game. You can only train one character at a time and there's no skill cap, so unless you're spying on a rival corp, you may as well be the same character the whole time, and train them in whatever you need. I suppose if you think you'll need a presence in different parts of the universe you might use alts...
Pricewise, I agree with the review. It's reasonable for the scale of game you get, but I still only find myself subbing when they send a 2 month, $20 special via email. If they did what LotRO did and offered that or a 3 months/$30 permanent option, I might stay subbed indefinitely.
Lastly, I'm not sure what one poster was saying when they said you had to access tiers of menus in order to enter combat. Maybe it was that way 9 years ago, but it couldn't be much simpler, now. You click on the target, press the target hotkey, click which weapons to fire(which now can be grouped). All those things are on screen and are not buried in any menu.
I believe they were talking about alt accounts. Although its useful to have alts on your main account if you don't have alt accounts. In either case having alts stationed in different regions for trading / price checks / route checking.
After all jumping into any system of any sec status with an expensive ship / cargo / clone without having it checked out first is a great way to lose lots of isk fast.
You forgot to mention one critical point - EVE is pvp-centric. More specifically you can be attacked by other players anywhere. For an admitted care bear like me that is a game breaker. Yes, I do think that Eve deserves this score - it is a fantastic game. I enjoyed it for over 45 days. But after being ganked in 0.9 space twice I gave up. Yup I could not cut it. On to the next mmo.
Some aspects of Eve intrigue me, but the other aspects like PVP and losing everything you've earned really turn me off..... I've read too many horror stories of vets taht do nothing but gank newer players all the time and that is their thrill of the game.....If they took away the PVP I would probably give it a serious go but the way the game is set up now no thanks.
EVE is absolutely PvP-centric, but not all PvP involves shooting.
Honestly my advice would be to ignore the "horror stories" and check it out for yourself. You can have a 21 day free trial just for asking, and form your own opinion.
If they would only revamp the 0.0 mechanics to break up with the too static powerblobs
It's pretty funny to note that most of those powerblocs have broken up since that post was made. Only the CFC remains intact - all the others are dead or failing.
Hey now Malcanis, we are doing alright as well. We don't need a sea of blue to maintain strategic partnerships
PlanetSide 2 will give Dust the console game set on same servers as Eve a run for its money but not Eve itself. They are too different to compare.
I always wanted a deep underlying game to PlanetSide but that is not going to happen. That is why the Eve Dust combination might just be the game to end all games.
I don't even have to read the review to know it is good. I've only been playing for a few months now but can say it is the most indepth game I've ever played. Yes it is text filled but thats only because I would need five monitors filled with icons to play it any other way (theres that much going on in this game). I steered away from this game for years because I was a WoW-wityen and everyone told me I couldn't make a differance because of all the OP older players. This is simply not true. While EVE is PvP based, it offers planty of high sec safety and PvE to get you into how to play the game, find your role, find a corp, etc. Like I said, I've been playing for a few months now and have only witnessed a few PvP battles (because I stay in higher sec areas). Thats not to say you can not get ganked, it's just not likely untill you start drifting towards .5 or lowers secs. If your looking for an indepth game with a bit of realism, give it a try. Send me a message and I shoot you (lol) my ingame info.
Like how CCP is on such a witch hunt for isk sellers that innocent people buying stuff in EVE are having there accounts fined isk for unknowningly dealing with an isk seller. (CCP's excuse being "you should be more careful who you buy from")
Or how everyday people lose hundreds or thousands of dollars in ships not just to PVP but also to bugs in the game and CCP's only answer is "Our logs show nothing" - Every EVE play more then 6 motns old knows those famous last words.
Or how about the fact CCP customer service has no accountability. Your cancel of a successful resolution to a petition sometimes depends on what GM answers it.
Or even better that CCP has no ethics. I filed a petition about skill training and qouted a forum posting from a CCP developer that justified my case. Only to find that the next day the forum posting was quietly changed without acknowledging the original mistake. CCP has done this on many occasions blaming everyone else but themselves. Anyone who played the game a few years might remember who players used to be able to train a skill while there account was offline and then CCP changed the rules saying these people were effectively stealing from CCP. DESPITE the fact that this was part of there game was 6 years old and advertised as a feature. CCP blamed it on an outside company who supposedly wrote the manual.
Best might be how they introduced a micro sales store where the cost of a virtual T-Shirt cost more then a real T-Shirt from CCP. After what seemed like an admission of a lie from ccp and a very condescending letter from the CEO, the fallout resulted in a loss of almost 10% of there subscribers.
There are certainly fanboys in the game who will support the company to there grave but the reality is CCP isn't blizzard. They have 3% of the subscriber base that WoW has. They can't afford to lose a single subscriber yet they lose them in droves to very poor communication and customer service
Like how CCP is on such a witch hunt for isk sellers that innocent people buying stuff in EVE are having there accounts fined isk for unknowningly dealing with an isk seller. (CCP's excuse being "you should be more careful who you buy from")
Or how everyday people lose hundreds or thousands of dollars in ships not just to PVP but also to bugs in the game and CCP's only answer is "Our logs show nothing" - Every EVE play more then 6 motns old knows those famous last words.
Or how about the fact CCP customer service has no accountability. Your cancel of a successful resolution to a petition sometimes depends on what GM answers it.
Or even better that CCP has no ethics. I filed a petition about skill training and qouted a forum posting from a CCP developer that justified my case. Only to find that the next day the forum posting was quietly changed without acknowledging the original mistake. CCP has done this on many occasions blaming everyone else but themselves. Anyone who played the game a few years might remember who players used to be able to train a skill while there account was offline and then CCP changed the rules saying these people were effectively stealing from CCP. DESPITE the fact that this was part of there game was 6 years old and advertised as a feature. CCP blamed it on an outside company who supposedly wrote the manual.
Best might be how they introduced a micro sales store where the cost of a virtual T-Shirt cost more then a real T-Shirt from CCP. After what seemed like an admission of a lie from ccp and a very condescending letter from the CEO, the fallout resulted in a loss of almost 10% of there subscribers.
There are certainly fanboys in the game who will support the company to there grave but the reality is CCP isn't blizzard. They have 3% of the subscriber base that WoW has. They can't afford to lose a single subscriber yet they lose them in droves to very poor communication and customer service
hmm you sound like a botter who got burned, they fined my account isk too and I petintioned it and it got resolved. Never had anything but decent custumer service from them.
they are not losing anywhere near there custumoers in droves its still slowly increasing. there is no huge negative trend.
also who are you to tell me that I cant buy a shirt for $70 if I want it. It has no in game signifacance so affects the game in no way what so ever yet that bothers you. Take a course in supply in demmand eventually the price will come down and if it doesnt it means they priced it right.
You forgot to mention one critical point - EVE is pvp-centric. More specifically you can be attacked by other players anywhere. For an admitted care bear like me that is a game breaker. Yes, I do think that Eve deserves this score - it is a fantastic game. I enjoyed it for over 45 days. But after being ganked in 0.9 space twice I gave up. Yup I could not cut it. On to the next mmo.
wow thats sad, you quit after 45days and getting ganked twice. By the way, only the stupid and careless get ganked in 0.9 space.
Like how CCP is on such a witch hunt for isk sellers that innocent people buying stuff in EVE are having there accounts fined isk for unknowningly dealing with an isk seller. (CCP's excuse being "you should be more careful who you buy from")
Or how everyday people lose hundreds or thousands of dollars in ships not just to PVP but also to bugs in the game and CCP's only answer is "Our logs show nothing" - Every EVE play more then 6 motns old knows those famous last words.
Or how about the fact CCP customer service has no accountability. Your cancel of a successful resolution to a petition sometimes depends on what GM answers it.
Or even better that CCP has no ethics. I filed a petition about skill training and qouted a forum posting from a CCP developer that justified my case. Only to find that the next day the forum posting was quietly changed without acknowledging the original mistake. CCP has done this on many occasions blaming everyone else but themselves. Anyone who played the game a few years might remember who players used to be able to train a skill while there account was offline and then CCP changed the rules saying these people were effectively stealing from CCP. DESPITE the fact that this was part of there game was 6 years old and advertised as a feature. CCP blamed it on an outside company who supposedly wrote the manual.
Best might be how they introduced a micro sales store where the cost of a virtual T-Shirt cost more then a real T-Shirt from CCP. After what seemed like an admission of a lie from ccp and a very condescending letter from the CEO, the fallout resulted in a loss of almost 10% of there subscribers.
There are certainly fanboys in the game who will support the company to there grave but the reality is CCP isn't blizzard. They have 3% of the subscriber base that WoW has. They can't afford to lose a single subscriber yet they lose them in droves to very poor communication and customer service
So what happened? Your credit card jumped out of your wallet on its own, entered the order into your PC and bought you a Vindicator for a Christmas present?
Wait, no, you did that yourself. You cheated, you got caught, you were punished. You weren't "innocent", you were guilty. You didn't "unknowingly" deal with an ISK seller, you knew full well you were dealing with an ISK seller.
If you're time poor and cash rich, you could have got yourself some ISK by buying PLEX from CCP and selling them the players. That way your ISK is legitimate and you support the game for other legitimate players. Instead, you decided to save yourself a few bucks by buying stolen game assets... and now you're complaining that you've received exactly the same treatment that the police give to people who "innocently" buy stolen goods.
I suggest learning to take some responsibility for your own actions, and maybe even developing the self respect required to play a game without cheating.
If they would only revamp the 0.0 mechanics to break up with the too static powerblobs
It's pretty funny to note that most of those powerblocs have broken up since that post was made. Only the CFC remains intact - all the others are dead or failing.
Hey now Malcanis, we are doing alright as well. We don't need a sea of blue to maintain strategic partnerships
And now your powerbloc is gone also.
0.0 is "static" on a timescale of days. On a timescale of months, it's seething with activity.
I dont even know where to begin or how to respond to such an insane re review ! The biggest problem I had with eve is the high sec ganking . I have been playing eve for the past 6 months and have been ganked numerous times while mining . Mining is about ALL u can do when you're new to eve so be prepared to get feasted upon by any 1 who feels like fucking with you.
Is it all doom and gloom , no . But unless u get in with a reasonable sized corp (guild) and always stay with corps mates , you're going to get ganked sooner or later no matter what your doing , no matter where your doing it .
Eve isnt fun for the casual player , its a fucking nightmare . If you dont know what line of work u wanna pursue right away , you can waste days training the wrong skills . and it takes months to fully train skills to the max to make them fully useful .
I could go on and on about why I think eve sucks and why u shouldnt play it , just remember its my opiion and if u want to devlelop your own opinion , try eve , u'll understand why it sux .
PS instead of having people who love a game reviewing it , how about you talk to players in game that have been playing for about a year or so and have them tell people why they should play eve . how about you talk to players OUTSIDE your cirlce of eve buddies and see how eve is treating them .
Comments
S13 E141 of Misconceptions of EVE
1.) You are not your ship. The whole game revolves around having many ships. You can only fly one, and lose that, and even if it was expensive, it wasn't all. If it was "all you worked for" in same egg basket its back to elementary school for you. The most repeated idea in EVE is "do not fly what you can't afford to lose", this transfers not only to the "you're not your ship" but to the fact that you can fly any ship, without losing it, at least long enough, to turn the ship into profit high enough, to have many ships. Ganking is extremely rare, if dont' do stupid things.
2.) Spawn camping, ie. waiting on the other side of the gate for people traveling through (cloak, interdiction). Its your own foult if you travel in highly valuable ship without scouting straight into, what is usually very predictable, gate camp. There is methods to avoid them completely when solo, and with a scout you can easily reach 100% safety. Consider a scout shuttle 24,000 isk investment of checking gate camps.
3.) Outblobbing / outnumbering. In a gate camp situation, there are dozens of options for lesser numbered force to beat vastly higher numbered camps. Tier 3 Battlecruisers, Cynabals, or other kite and range combinations. Brutal force by any numeber of Dominixes. 4 Dominixes can easily sustain a typical gate camp of atleast 10, but up to 30. Typhoon or few. Gatecamp is nothing but an obstacle set by human players, that you'll peek into with a scout and murder with carefully chosen handful, or completely avoid with ease.
4.) Outblobbing in massive fleet fights. More is always unarguably more, but in EVE avoiding fights is relatively easy, commiting is a choise and doing mistakes is your own fault. One uses scouts information to decide if you avoid or commit, if you commit you can always choose to commit so that you have a way out. More in numebrs does not always win, fleet types and purposes matter, logistics matter. There are literally thousands of stories where smaller gang beats larger ones. And as many in which fleet made an error, got cought by massive force, and still managed to get out with minimal losses. Super Capitals is probably the only situation where having more of single ship type is simply vastly better than having even slightly less, but lets give it ~60 billion ISK a piece, they're supposed to be above everything else.
5.) Having 5 veterans with mediocre skill (say, 7mil, 6 months of playing) in right ships, coordinated and well commanded fleet is vastly better than 20 monkeys flying what ever they managed to get together, even if it has electronic jammers. It doesn't take skill to initiate jam, but with skill you never have the chance to.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
WHO - Online 08-10
LOTR-O - Online 06-08
Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
1. Completely missed my point. I played EvE from 2003 for many years. I'm well aware of the "you are not your ship" and "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" catchphrases. The point I was making is its not Vets ganking newbs that you need to worry about its gangs ganking anyone and anything that you need to worry about
2. Complete non-sense. Spawn camping is 99% of PvP in EvE. If you jump into a system without a scout / covert ops enabled ship and theres a camp on the other side with instalock tackle you will die and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it unless you use the log off before decloak which is lame. Yes you can use a scout for a plex or an extra 15 dollars per month but a requirement to metagame simply to travel to avoid spawn camping ganks is not something that I'd be bragging about as a developer.
3. Again complete rubbish. In EvE you have numbers you have victory. Has always been that way since about 2004. There are zero tactics, no terrain, no obstacles, no outflanking, outthinking, only outblobbing. EvE is purely strategy, and the only strat that works is hot dropping huge numbers on smaller numbers or sitting at a gate with 100's of players waiting for a solo player to haplessly jump through the gate. I understand you are a fan but I played the game for 7 years, I soloed, was in Stain Alliance in 0.0, was a low sec pirate, miner, mission runner, did wormholes, founded the privateer alliance and then was a solo war deccer. I know EvE. Cut the bull about smaller smarter gangs beating larger dumber blobs with skill.
4. More nonsense. Show me the evidence of thousands of battles where smaller gangs beat larger blobs. There are bound to be killmails to back the stories up. Where are they?
5. No not true unless they seriously nerfed ecm. A week old newb can permajam any ship in game except the caps. 20 newbs with a jammer each or 5 newbs with ecm ships = dead vets.
Before you respond with more catchphrase I'll give you an example of one of the idiotic ideas implemented by CCP:
In EvE you have gang bonuses, gang modules and gang skills. These bonuses, modules and skills increase your 'stats' massively, up to 27.5%. In theory is kindof a cool idea however you need to look at the way it actually works and you will see a massive problem with it:
Gang of 10 people with bonuses vs Gang of 10 people without bonuses = gange of 12 people vs gang of 10 people. Gang at disadvantage must bring more players because bonuses mean the equal 10 really is 10 X .27%. With 100 players it would be an extra 27 players.
Gang of 10 people with bonuses vs Gang of 5 people with bonuses = gang of 12 people vs gang of 6 people.
Gang of 1 person with gang skills (person gets no bonus) vs gang of 2 people with bonuses = gang of 1 person vs gang of 2.5 people.
Gang of 1 person with gang skills (person gets no bonus) vs gang of 2 people with no skills in gangs = gang of 1 person vs gang of 2 people.
As you can see the the gang system always favors the people who already have the advantage. In a situation where both teams are equal and both have gang bonuses which is the normal situation then the gang bonuses cancel each other out and there are no benefits. In short the gang bonuses are essentially only useful to gangs if they already have a numbers advantage or in the extremely unlikely situation where the other gang has no gang boosters.
What this leads to is a see saw effect where both sides must bring more people to a fight otherwise its instant lose. And this leads to the blobs, which leads to the lag, which leads to the node crashes which leads ot this post.
1.) So is it now Vets being better than Newbs, or Newb gangs being better than Vets? Gangs being better than Gangs?
2.) Spawn camping and jumping into a system without scouts or intel might have been 99% of what you did or saw, doesn'tmake it the reality that most of the PVP doesn't work this way. Also to be noted that logging before decloak doesn't work, and you completely ignore the interdiction nullifier (bubbles dont effect you) and core stabs (you cant be pointed) making traveling even solo 100% safe, if you aint a prick. It also doesn't cost anything to start a trial account and podfly it to check your route in a pod/free ship. Alternatively, you can have friends and intel.
3.) "No terrain"
- Wormhole space gives bonuses / penaulty that effectively change totally how ship functions in different environment.
- Gates, POS's, Stations, Jump Bridges, Complexes, Asteroid Belts, Mission pockets all have different environmental rules that effectively make them "terrain" in space. Infact the knowledge of the terrain you are in, is a key essence of achieving upper hand in the environment. Ever got stuck into asteroids, or saved by knowing accerelation gate mechanics?
"No obstacles"
Its space. WTF. Anyhow, pushing someone far from station exit would be alot easier if there wouldn't be said station as an obstacle. Or landing a capital jump next to POS would not be tricky, if hitting the obstacle wouldn't shoot you into depth of space where no one hears you screaming.
"No out flanking"
Long range fleet, say Machariel, Cynabal, Hyena, Rapier, Arazu, Scimitar for remote repairs and two scouts in stealth bombers. They need to stay in max range to able to kill but not get killed. This fleet of 8 can take on any fleet up to 30 as long as they manage to stay in range of 30-50. Those two scouts make warp in locations around the enemy in such fashion, that this fleet constantly flanks the enemy to their own optimal range. Similar strategy is used by Drakes, Artillery Hurricane, HAC's and any Sniper fleets. Flanking can also be done by going around in a loop of systems to enter into the enemy system through a better position gate, for example to go around camped gate or to create a murder camp behind enemy into direction where they're most likely fleeing.
"No out thinking".
Seriously? This is not Sparta, You Simply Do Not Lemming Into 6VDT. Out thinking the enemy is exactly what the whole of EVE is about.
4. Numbers always wins?
Gang of 6 against 14. Gate camp situation, enemy has ECM, friendly doesn't, easy win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky5doen1zHk
8 vs 32, Showing you the flanking strategy in action. Not a single ship lost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T-drwPewXrU#t=137s
1vs4, Spawn Camping not as effective as you say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUmPyhJX2Po&feature=related
43 vs 45, Smaller gang kills 34 enemies, losing 10, simply by better strategy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLlyug_uDmo
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=7415877
1 Battlecruiser VS 3x T3 Cruisers, Damnation Loki and Tengu.
http://fleeonsight.blogspot.com/2011/02/molden-heath-fear-myrmidon.html
20 vs 80, 80 enemies died, 2 ships lost. Strategical move.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/09/22/battle-report-deklein-coalition-welpcats-bombed-to-stone-age-by-the-legion-is-the-welpcane-one-trick-poney-reaching-its-dawn/
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2011-09-21%2018:43:00&end_time=2011-09-21%2018:44:00&system=O-BY0Y
One of my all time favourite fights. 330 of us in battlecruisers against 190 of them with the 50 Super Capitals and 20 Triage Carrier fleet on the field, basically the ultimate of "drop in as much as you can" fleet, worth at least 2500 billion ISK in Titans only, against our 3 billion ISK Battlecruiser gang. Still won, and could have kept murdering them endlessly simply because of extremely strategically developed and managed fleet composition and good fleet commanders.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/09/12/video-deklein-coalition-welpcanes-vs-ncdotraiden-hellcat-super-carrier-a-25-minutes-blood-opera/
5. ECM Perma Jam? Its been percentage based chance for years, greatly reduced by simply fitting counter measures. Know your enemy, fit ECCM. Countering ECM isn't that hard.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
WHO - Online 08-10
LOTR-O - Online 06-08
Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
That is pretty impressive. I would suggest to you though that the majority of pvp is absolutely not like that, its blob warefare, and the rest happens at gates. As a goon former goon or affiliated goon you would know that.
How many times did you try stuff like that and get blown to shite? I bet 9 out of 10 times or more.
Well said, couldn't agree more.
See the text of yours I highlighted in red: Actually, they don't. When the patch came out that removed drone alloys, CCP also secretly went and blocked the accounts of as many mining botters as they could find. That's one of the reasons why the mineral prices have spiked so much recently.
Where's the any key?
It's pretty funny to note that most of those powerblocs have broken up since that post was made. Only the CFC remains intact - all the others are dead or failing.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Hey now Malcanis, we are doing alright as well. We don't need a sea of blue to maintain strategic partnerships
Eve keeps stealing my mind and when i get bored i watch a few epic movies and my motivation is back on top again.
You can do so much stuff in Eve, that you have always something to do or to check out.
The contand fear of losing your ship makes it a exciting game, specialy when your in enemy territory.
The masive blue blob from Goons is a major -10 tough, it seems none have the balls to start a conflict with them.
Ona few skirmish battles aside, they own a massive amount of space.
Iam into wormholes lately and its a very epic expirience.
My personal verdict for Eve online would be a 9.5
No other mmo can get so deep as Eve, tough at times it can get dull and boring, playing Eve solo messes with the head .
Find a Corp and have fun
I'm a bit bewildered when the reviewer talked about alts being essential to the game. You can only train one character at a time and there's no skill cap, so unless you're spying on a rival corp, you may as well be the same character the whole time, and train them in whatever you need. I suppose if you think you'll need a presence in different parts of the universe you might use alts...
Pricewise, I agree with the review. It's reasonable for the scale of game you get, but I still only find myself subbing when they send a 2 month, $20 special via email. If they did what LotRO did and offered that or a 3 months/$30 permanent option, I might stay subbed indefinitely.
Lastly, I'm not sure what one poster was saying when they said you had to access tiers of menus in order to enter combat. Maybe it was that way 9 years ago, but it couldn't be much simpler, now. You click on the target, press the target hotkey, click which weapons to fire(which now can be grouped). All those things are on screen and are not buried in any menu.
I believe they were talking about alt accounts. Although its useful to have alts on your main account if you don't have alt accounts. In either case having alts stationed in different regions for trading / price checks / route checking.
After all jumping into any system of any sec status with an expensive ship / cargo / clone without having it checked out first is a great way to lose lots of isk fast.
EVE is absolutely PvP-centric, but not all PvP involves shooting.
Honestly my advice would be to ignore the "horror stories" and check it out for yourself. You can have a 21 day free trial just for asking, and form your own opinion.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Well... these things are relative, I suppose.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I always wanted a deep underlying game to PlanetSide but that is not going to happen. That is why the Eve Dust combination might just be the game to end all games.
I don't even have to read the review to know it is good. I've only been playing for a few months now but can say it is the most indepth game I've ever played. Yes it is text filled but thats only because I would need five monitors filled with icons to play it any other way (theres that much going on in this game). I steered away from this game for years because I was a WoW-wityen and everyone told me I couldn't make a differance because of all the OP older players. This is simply not true. While EVE is PvP based, it offers planty of high sec safety and PvE to get you into how to play the game, find your role, find a corp, etc. Like I said, I've been playing for a few months now and have only witnessed a few PvP battles (because I stay in higher sec areas). Thats not to say you can not get ganked, it's just not likely untill you start drifting towards .5 or lowers secs. If your looking for an indepth game with a bit of realism, give it a try. Send me a message and I shoot you (lol) my ingame info.
You forgot to mention some important things.
Like how CCP is on such a witch hunt for isk sellers that innocent people buying stuff in EVE are having there accounts fined isk for unknowningly dealing with an isk seller. (CCP's excuse being "you should be more careful who you buy from")
Or how everyday people lose hundreds or thousands of dollars in ships not just to PVP but also to bugs in the game and CCP's only answer is "Our logs show nothing" - Every EVE play more then 6 motns old knows those famous last words.
Or how about the fact CCP customer service has no accountability. Your cancel of a successful resolution to a petition sometimes depends on what GM answers it.
Or even better that CCP has no ethics. I filed a petition about skill training and qouted a forum posting from a CCP developer that justified my case. Only to find that the next day the forum posting was quietly changed without acknowledging the original mistake. CCP has done this on many occasions blaming everyone else but themselves. Anyone who played the game a few years might remember who players used to be able to train a skill while there account was offline and then CCP changed the rules saying these people were effectively stealing from CCP. DESPITE the fact that this was part of there game was 6 years old and advertised as a feature. CCP blamed it on an outside company who supposedly wrote the manual.
Best might be how they introduced a micro sales store where the cost of a virtual T-Shirt cost more then a real T-Shirt from CCP. After what seemed like an admission of a lie from ccp and a very condescending letter from the CEO, the fallout resulted in a loss of almost 10% of there subscribers.
There are certainly fanboys in the game who will support the company to there grave but the reality is CCP isn't blizzard. They have 3% of the subscriber base that WoW has. They can't afford to lose a single subscriber yet they lose them in droves to very poor communication and customer service
Nice first post, welcome to mmorpg.com
hmm you sound like a botter who got burned, they fined my account isk too and I petintioned it and it got resolved. Never had anything but decent custumer service from them.
they are not losing anywhere near there custumoers in droves its still slowly increasing. there is no huge negative trend.
also who are you to tell me that I cant buy a shirt for $70 if I want it. It has no in game signifacance so affects the game in no way what so ever yet that bothers you. Take a course in supply in demmand eventually the price will come down and if it doesnt it means they priced it right.
So what happened? Your credit card jumped out of your wallet on its own, entered the order into your PC and bought you a Vindicator for a Christmas present?
Wait, no, you did that yourself. You cheated, you got caught, you were punished. You weren't "innocent", you were guilty. You didn't "unknowingly" deal with an ISK seller, you knew full well you were dealing with an ISK seller.
If you're time poor and cash rich, you could have got yourself some ISK by buying PLEX from CCP and selling them the players. That way your ISK is legitimate and you support the game for other legitimate players. Instead, you decided to save yourself a few bucks by buying stolen game assets... and now you're complaining that you've received exactly the same treatment that the police give to people who "innocently" buy stolen goods.
I suggest learning to take some responsibility for your own actions, and maybe even developing the self respect required to play a game without cheating.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
And now your powerbloc is gone also.
0.0 is "static" on a timescale of days. On a timescale of months, it's seething with activity.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I dont even know where to begin or how to respond to such an insane re review ! The biggest problem I had with eve is the high sec ganking . I have been playing eve for the past 6 months and have been ganked numerous times while mining . Mining is about ALL u can do when you're new to eve so be prepared to get feasted upon by any 1 who feels like fucking with you.
Is it all doom and gloom , no . But unless u get in with a reasonable sized corp (guild) and always stay with corps mates , you're going to get ganked sooner or later no matter what your doing , no matter where your doing it .
Eve isnt fun for the casual player , its a fucking nightmare . If you dont know what line of work u wanna pursue right away , you can waste days training the wrong skills . and it takes months to fully train skills to the max to make them fully useful .
I could go on and on about why I think eve sucks and why u shouldnt play it , just remember its my opiion and if u want to devlelop your own opinion , try eve , u'll understand why it sux .
PS instead of having people who love a game reviewing it , how about you talk to players in game that have been playing for about a year or so and have them tell people why they should play eve . how about you talk to players OUTSIDE your cirlce of eve buddies and see how eve is treating them .