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this is how to improve the combat:

24

Comments

  • NasherUKNasherUK Secret cavePosts: 476Member Common

    I have to agree with the OP.  Combat in this game is very dull and way to slow.  Even in trailers it looks boring.

    They can't expect any competative pvp when everything is slow and clumsy.

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes ZabbarPosts: 2,651Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    Snip

    stopp wit the crapp realism argument it IS a fantasy game - and how woud you defend an attacking zombie - as you would attack everyobdy else - blocking with your weapon or with your arm and try to push them away...

    dodge doesnt need to make you immune but it gives the combat a more dynamic feel (of course you need to adapt skills to it) - you also have this kind of back flipp ability - how is that realistic huh?? thats the kind of things i want to see and have - not slowly walking backwards while shooting the enemy as in a first person shooter released 10 years ago

    and with better effects i mean partially more flashy, i mean you should "feel" if a grenade explodes next to you and your enemies should feel it as well - if you throw a bomb into a mob it shoud makie KAWOOM as it would in real life - it should knock enemies down (and i mean KNOCK THEM THE SHIT BACK) and not just let them fall onto one knee tbowing - there should be limbses flowing around - yes this is what happens in REALITY - looking at that combat it looks like some kind of 10 years old free to play game that some students developped in their basement

    WAR had dynamic events, action oriented combat in rpg's is around of a long time, and there are plenty of games with more lively cities with flowing traffic (gta??)

    First of all gta is not an mmorpg so your argument is invalid.

    While war has dynamic events they are simple and not as detailed and varied as GW2, most people after seeing/playing/reading GW2 keep on comparing it's features with newer games when said game hasn't released yet!

    People need to stop comparing with GW2 it's not even out yet and it's been titled the holy grail. Mind you everything I've seen and read are great for that game but it's still a new game with no release date you can't compare and say other games are crap because they don't have as much depth in making towns more alive and shit than GW2.

    I'll repeat again and say these features are great and would love to have them in all games but it won't happen anytime soon and people should just shut up.

    When GW2 releases and it gets very popular which I certainly hope so as I'm buying it maybe more developers will try that approach and THEN you can say x game is lame because it's not trying to go with progress but prefers to save money and make a bland simple game.

     

    Now back to TSW.

    This is NOT a fantasy game it's realistic and based around real mysteries and shit we have in our world not invented wther you like it or not.

    Like I said I wouldn't mind a dodge feature unless it has the immune crap GW2 has. (No offence but if your rolling you might dodge some attacks but certainly not going to dodge a grenade exploding in your face while rolling.)

    And again your comparing different games, an FPS is NOT and mmo.

    Better effects on explosions and things like that yes but I don't want flashy sparkly effects when I shoot a gun or slash with a sword/whatever. 

     

    One last thing could you tell me what's so different about TSW combat vs GW2 combat excluding dodging?

    Yep, thought so.

    image

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by bloodaxes

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884


    Snip

    stopp wit the crapp realism argument it IS a fantasy game - and how woud you defend an attacking zombie - as you would attack everyobdy else - blocking with your weapon or with your arm and try to push them away...

    dodge doesnt need to make you immune but it gives the combat a more dynamic feel (of course you need to adapt skills to it) - you also have this kind of back flipp ability - how is that realistic huh?? thats the kind of things i want to see and have - not slowly walking backwards while shooting the enemy as in a first person shooter released 10 years ago

    and with better effects i mean partially more flashy, i mean you should "feel" if a grenade explodes next to you and your enemies should feel it as well - if you throw a bomb into a mob it shoud makie KAWOOM as it would in real life - it should knock enemies down (and i mean KNOCK THEM THE SHIT BACK) and not just let them fall onto one knee tbowing - there should be limbses flowing around - yes this is what happens in REALITY - looking at that combat it looks like some kind of 10 years old free to play game that some students developped in their basement

    WAR had dynamic events, action oriented combat in rpg's is around of a long time, and there are plenty of games with more lively cities with flowing traffic (gta??)

    First of all gta is not an mmorpg so your argument is invalid.

    While war has dynamic events they are simple and not as detailed and varied as GW2, most people after seeing/playing/reading GW2 keep on comparing it's features with newer games when said game hasn't released yet!

    People need to stop comparing with GW2 it's not even out yet and it's been titled the holy grail. Mind you everything I've seen and read are great for that game but it's still a new game with no release date you can't compare and say other games are crap because they don't have as much depth in making towns more alive and shit than GW2.

    I'll repeat again and say these features are great and would love to have them in all games but it won't happen anytime soon and people should just shut up.

    When GW2 releases and it gets very popular which I certainly hope so as I'm buying it maybe more developers will try that approach and THEN you can say x game is lame because it's not trying to go with progress but prefers to save money and make a bland simple game.

     

    Now back to TSW.

    This is NOT a fantasy game it's realistic and based around real mysteries and shit we have in our world not invented wther you like it or not.

    Like I said I wouldn't mind a dodge feature unless it has the immune crap GW2 has. (No offence but if your rolling you might dodge some attacks but certainly not going to dodge a grenade exploding in your face while rolling.)

    And again your comparing different games, an FPS is NOT and mmo.

    Better effects on explosions and things like that yes but I don't want flashy sparkly effects when I shoot a gun or slash with a sword/whatever. 

     

    One last thing could you tell me what's so different about TSW combat vs GW2 combat excluding dodging?

    Yep, thought so.



    why should you compare mmos only to mmos? okay than lets compare it to the combat in counter strike - thats an mmo right? you need to compare games to other game that you think would improve your game - its as simple as that

    and i used war as an example that gw2 didnt invent dynamic events - as simple as that

    gw2 is not the wholy grail - storyline, single player questing, setting, atmosphere - all WORSE in gw2 imo sowhat?? were not lookg at this here - tsw is doing a fine job with it - were looking at COMBAT and combat ONLY and here gw2 or terra are better, more innovative, more fun - that doesnt mean it needs to copy these games but it should learn from them and adapt things to make combat more fun - because it isnt - show me a single beta review that says combat is fun? its boring to watch and its even more boring to play

    and yes - gw2 is not even out yet and has no release date - and the game looks 10 times more polisehd than tsw which is a few weeks away from release...what does that tell you?

    you are just bending arguments however you want that they fit you - if realism fits you use it, if it doesnt you counter it...same with comparison to other games - it doesnt matter if other games are mmo's or not except were asking for things that are technically impossible for an mmo which we are not

    the game is NOT realistic - not even within its on half ass realistic setting - is having 10m range on a pistole realistic? NO, is making a 20m backflipp with a gun realistic - NO - you are 10ft away from a melee attack, the strike visibly missing you, and you still get hit. You circle strafe behind the enemy, the enemy attacks forward and you still get hit. You're standing on an object way above a zombie's height, yet somehow it's still biting you...you can count tens and tens of other examples why its not realistic - but i feel you - i dont want high fantasy in here, you can improve all the things i mentionned including animations while still giving you the realistic feel!!

    gw2 is not "true" action combat - absolutly agree - but it does a good job hiding it with fast paced combat with great animations that are fun to watch and pull you into the game - and THIS is what the secred world can do as well - give you the feel of an action combat without loosing its tactical outlay

    ps: if i have the time i will look up the post on animations from devs...just takes some time

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    I'll have to withold judgment on the combat until I've seen more of the skills, but certainly with only two (which is as many as I had while I beta'd) it was a bit dull. I feel for the OP, but it just doesn't sound like traditional MMO combat is his thing- it is TSW's thing. Should just move on. Not all games are for all players.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Nemesis7884
    1) speed it up 25%
    Yeah, possibly

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    You mean a skill that just gives temporarily immunity? how is that different from blood shield?

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    Its not a fps system, they have abilities that pull and push.

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    That's a lot of work for very little profit.

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    The sounds do their job. Have you listened to sfx with headphones?

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    They do, Go watch the mmorpg illuminati preview you can clearly see zombies pushed back from the force of exploding gas cans.

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    Skills are fine the way they are, and we have only seen 10% in beta...

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nitth

     




    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%





    Yeah, possibly



    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)




    You mean a skill that just gives temporarily immunity? how is that different from blood shield?



    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies




    Its not a fps system, they have abilities that pull and push.



    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows


    That's a lot of work for very little profit.



    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4




    The sounds do their job. Have you listened to sfx with headphones?



    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that




    They do, Go watch the mmorpg illuminati preview you can clearly see zombies pushed back from the force of exploding gas cans.



    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented




    Skills are fine the way they are, and we have only seen 10% in beta...

     



    2) no i mean dodge as in dodge: - that video is also a good example of how combat should "feel" in terms of impact

    4) lol...yea maybe they should stopp making games if they are not willing to make games people like to look at...why not stick to rock-paper-scissors for future funcome games?

    5) the sounds are not only horrible (i mean effects from attacks/weapons not music) - everybody that has ever fired a gun in his life will tell you the same

    6) have to do that

    7) ....yea the its only the beta argument...if i only got 10 bucks for every time i heard that..i probably bought funcom by now

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kenze

    closed beta = game not release ready.  wait until we see release canidate before calling for overhauls

    Thank you. I wish I or someone could smuggle some info out the open.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

     



    2) no i mean dodge as in dodge: - that video is also a good example of how combat should "feel" in terms of impact

    4) lol...yea maybe they should stopp making games if they are not willing to make games people like to look at...why not stick to rock-paper-scissors for future funcome games?

    5) the sounds are not only horrible (i mean effects from attacks/weapons not music) - everybody that has ever fired a gun in his life will tell you the same

    6) have to do that

    7) ....yea the its only the beta argument...if i only got 10 bucks for every time i heard that..i probably bought funcom by now

    this is probably my biggest issue with combat. Abilities just don't have any weight ot them. It feels silly hitting and little zombie point blank in the face with a hammer and it not knock him back unless its a killing blow.. Even my shotgun just doesn't feel like it's got any kick to it..

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    Originally posted by bcbully

    Originally posted by Kenze

    closed beta = game not release ready.  wait until we see release canidate before calling for overhauls

    Thank you. I wish I or someone could smuggle some info out the open.

    funny people keep bringing up its BETA. Game is set to release in a month. TERAs animations and combat did not change from CB1 weekend which was several months before launch. SWTOR combat/animations had no change from the last closed beta builds months before launch.. i could go on and on and on. Overall basic functions of the game are pretty much not going to change until maybe an expansion down the road, if they do it would be a first time i have ever seen any sort of major overhaul this close to release of a MMO.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    ...look at the mmos that succeed nowadays and look at what makes them different?

     

    Ok, let's look at the games nowadays and their combat systems:

     

    Games that succeed (at least financially):  WoW, EQ2, LoTRO, Rift, TOR, AION, EVE - all have traditional combat.

    Games that have had innovative or different combat:  TR (fail - closed), MxO (fail - closed), AoC (moderate success), TERA (tbd, likely failure), GW2 (tbd), Fallen Earth (uhm.. i don't even know atm), DCUO (not sure where it stands, but certainly not a smashing success).

     

    Now, I'll agree with you that TR, AoC and FE are (or were) all awesome games and I enjoyed the combat systems in them immensely, TR probably has the best action-oriented combat system I've ever seen in an MMO.  I also absolutely LOVE the combat system in DCUO - the mix of street-fighter type controls with traditional MMO is really really fun.  

     

    But if you look at the facts of which games have had the most commercial success and longevity, it's absolutely the ones with traditional MMO combat systems.

     

    Don't get me wrong, i agree 100% that TSW's combat system could be better.  I mean, I would pay an extra $5 a month if the y somehow managed to put in TR's combat into this game.   But if - as you asked - we actually look at the industry, there is not a single example of a major commercial success using a non-traditional combat system.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    ...look at the mmos that succeed nowadays and look at what makes them different?

     

    Ok, let's look at the games nowadays and their combat systems:

     

    Games that succeed (at least financially):  WoW, EQ2, LoTRO, Rift, TOR, AION, EVE - all have traditional combat.

    Games that have had innovative or different combat:  TR (fail - closed), MxO (fail - closed), AoC (moderate success), TERA (tbd, likely failure), GW2 (tbd), Fallen Earth (uhm.. i don't even know atm), DCUO (not sure where it stands, but certainly not a smashing success).

     

    Now, I'll agree with you that TR, AoC and FE are (or were) all awesome games and I enjoyed the combat systems in them immensely, TR probably has the best action-oriented combat system I've ever seen in an MMO.  I also absolutely LOVE the combat system in DCUO - the mix of street-fighter type controls with traditional MMO is really really fun.  

     

    But if you look at the facts of which games have had the most commercial success and longevity, it's absolutely the ones with traditional MMO combat systems.

     

    Don't get me wrong, i agree 100% that TSW's combat system could be better.  I mean, I would pay an extra $5 a month if the y somehow managed to put in TR's combat into this game.   But if - as you asked - we actually look at the industry, there is not a single example of a major commercial success using a non-traditional combat system.



    you said it yourself had success...

    tera fails because it has good combat but horrible questing - you need to improve on both fronts - tsw has great story but meee combat

    i would very much doubt the sucess of tor in terms of the production cost- the game does not nearly have as many subscribers as the devs were hoping - and lets be realistic if it wasnt for the star wars franchise hardly anyone would care

    how big was the success of aion outside of asia? rift had especially success because it is a working wow clone with better graphics that had a super smooth start and was as said working - so a lot of wowlers moved over (and moved back) - lord of the rings - again strong franchise...everquest 2 is quite old and was probably chosen by guys that played everquest one and didnt want to move to wow - but do we have actual numbers on these games?

    the issue is - people in wow that play for years dont stay there because of the quests or the combat but because of the social aspect and the community they have - you can not compete with that with a new game so you need to come up with interresting mechanics

    why does pretty much every review/preview of this game ripp its combat into pieces? because they all dont know how to play? beta testers included?

    oh and about the animations are only place holders - thats horsecrapp... they simply got surprised by the negative feedback from the community and try to change things now but i doubt they can do a lot in time...maybe with a patch in 6 months or so

    the question is can a game nowadays compete if you have games with a combat like dcuo (which is very niche so not a lot want to play it), tera and gw2 - and i say no...i doubt it - especially since gw2 is free - you cant live from the setting alone...hardly anyone will pay hundreds of dollars for that - and i havent met a single person so far saying - after playing one of the mentionned games - that he wants to go back to traditional mmo combat

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by bcbully


    Originally posted by Kenze

    closed beta = game not release ready.  wait until we see release canidate before calling for overhauls

    Thank you. I wish I or someone could smuggle some info out the open.

    funny people keep bringing up its BETA. Game is set to release in a month. TERAs animations and combat did not change from CB1 weekend which was several months before launch. SWTOR combat/animations had no change from the last closed beta builds months before launch.. i could go on and on and on. Overall basic functions of the game are pretty much not going to change until maybe an expansion down the road, if they do it would be a first time i have ever seen any sort of major overhaul this close to release of a MMO.

    delete

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Tera's first month isn't over yet and you proclaim it a failure already? I mean, seriously. Try to be objective once a while. The game might not do well and may get trampled by later releases, but so far we have no indication of either success (whatever that means for Tera's developers) or failure.

    I can see how you can be so polarised about TSW, when you can't be objective about the simplest things.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Tera's first month isn't over yet and you proclaim it a failure already? I mean, seriously. Try to be objective once a while. The game might not do well and may get trampled by later releases, but so far we have no indication of either success (whatever that means for Tera's developers) or failure.

    I can see how you can be so polarised about TSW, when you can't be objective about the simplest things.

    ...i am looking at teras success (or rather fail) in asia... you can look those numbers up...asians didnt recieve it very well well...they left after a few weeks...game has currently 140-150k subscribers

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Tera's first month isn't over yet and you proclaim it a failure already? I mean, seriously. Try to be objective once a while. The game might not do well and may get trampled by later releases, but so far we have no indication of either success (whatever that means for Tera's developers) or failure.

    I can see how you can be so polarised about TSW, when you can't be objective about the simplest things.

    Everything with less then 10M players is a failure in the eyes of a certain grouop of people

     

    TSW is different enough from other games to warrant a secure place for some time to come among the listed MMO's, but its also different enough to not make the number one spot.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Tera's first month isn't over yet and you proclaim it a failure already? I mean, seriously. Try to be objective once a while. The game might not do well and may get trampled by later releases, but so far we have no indication of either success (whatever that means for Tera's developers) or failure.

    I can see how you can be so polarised about TSW, when you can't be objective about the simplest things.

    Everything with less then 10M players is a failure in the eyes of a certain grouop of people

     

    TSW is different enough from other games to warrant a secure place for some time to come among the listed MMO's, but its also different enough to not make the number one spot.

    no everything that does not get the expected success is a failure - tera was so far a financial failure - is now somwhere 4th place in korean mmo's with 140-150k subscribers...one of the exec. managers allready resigend because of the bad financial performance... you can look it up its on google

    not mentionning the ongoing lawsuit from ncsoft against the game...

  • XasapisXasapis VolosPosts: 5,561Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Tera's first month isn't over yet and you proclaim it a failure already? I mean, seriously. Try to be objective once a while. The game might not do well and may get trampled by later releases, but so far we have no indication of either success (whatever that means for Tera's developers) or failure.

    I can see how you can be so polarised about TSW, when you can't be objective about the simplest things.

    ...i am looking at teras success (or rather fail) in asia... you can look those numbers up...asians didnt recieve it very well well...they left after a few weeks...game has currently 140-150k subscribers

    I wouldn't call a failure being 3rd most popular mmorpg and with subscription instead of the more traditional F2P monetary system there. It didn't trample Aion there, I would agree to that, but I would hardly call it a failure. Under this logic, Rift is a failure, since they didn't manage to dethrone WoW, or EVE.

    Going back to TSW, the bigger danger is hardly the combat. The biggest danger, imo, is having a story with an ending, SW:TOR style. Since we'll basically make one character that can do everything, the game needs to occupy us with activities that will transcend merely a linear story, no matter how interesting. That will be the real challenge Funcom will be facing.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884


    Originally posted by Xasapis

    Tera's first month isn't over yet and you proclaim it a failure already? I mean, seriously. Try to be objective once a while. The game might not do well and may get trampled by later releases, but so far we have no indication of either success (whatever that means for Tera's developers) or failure.

    I can see how you can be so polarised about TSW, when you can't be objective about the simplest things.

    ...i am looking at teras success (or rather fail) in asia... you can look those numbers up...asians didnt recieve it very well well...they left after a few weeks...game has currently 140-150k subscribers

    I wouldn't call a failure being 3rd most popular mmorpg and with subscription instead of the more traditional F2P monetary system there. It didn't trample Aion there, I would agree to that, but I would hardly call it a failure. Under this logic, Rift is a failure, since they didn't manage to dethrone WoW, or EVE.



    no its a failure because

    they didnt reach their financial target

    theyre being sued by ncsoft for stolen property - is it even sure now that the game launches at all in the us?

    they have hardly any player base and this that soon after launch

    they had bad reception in korea and asia

    they are not being 3rd buth 4th in korea

    but thats no thread about tera - i really dont give a rats ass about that game

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

     i havent met a single person so far saying - after playing one of the mentionned games - that he wants to go back to traditional mmo combat

    As someone that works in marketing myself, I can tell you that what customers say and what customers DO are very different things.  I haven't met many people that played TR and didn't absolutley love the combat system.  Yet the game is dead.  And vast majority of people agree that TOR's combat is pretty bad, yet all kinds of people are still playing it.  

     

    My point isn't that good combat systems don't matter, it's that they don't seem to be making any difference in their games' commercial success.

     

    As a personal example:   after playing EQ2 for many years, i have a hard time even with most "traditional" combat systems if they use this retarded "global cooldown" system that's become popular lately (Rift, TOR, TSW and a few other games have it).  With EQ2 combat being so fluid, i have a hard time just spamming same button over and over waiting for my spell to trigger in these newer games.  But yet, here i am, still playing those games, because ultimately, they are still interesting on some level despite the combat shortcomings.  And even though DCUO has better combat, I'm not playing it because i don't like other aspects of it.

     

     

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • RagnorMalakRagnorMalak HeerenveenPosts: 117Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    Originally posted by eluldor

    Umm I was reading on official forums about people complaining on not being fast enough to dodge out of AOEs, the response was that there would be a double tap dodge. Sorry, don't have the time to provide a link.

    the devs also said that animations were only placeholder and that everything would get so much better - and now theyre saying well its mostly done dont expect to many changes - bs - as most things from failcom

    Actually: they already improved it. If you compare for instance caster animations that are in the game now with videos from half a year ago, you see that it is different...

    image
  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Hampshire, AZPosts: 512Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    Almost agree with that. However #4 I can't agree with in the aspect of making things "less realistic" any more unrealistic stuff in this game (See 20 foot high bunny hopping for example) and it will have to be reclassified as a purely fantasy genre game.

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

     i havent met a single person so far saying - after playing one of the mentionned games - that he wants to go back to traditional mmo combat

    As someone that works in marketing myself, I can tell you that what customers say and what customers DO are very different things.  I haven't met many people that played TR and didn't absolutley love the combat system.  Yet the game is dead.  And vast majority of people agree that TOR's combat is pretty bad, yet all kinds of people are still playing it.  

     

    My point isn't that good combat systems don't matter, it's that they don't seem to be making any difference in their games' commercial success.

     

    As a personal example:   after playing EQ2 for many years, i have a hard time even with most "traditional" combat systems if they use this retarded "global cooldown" system that's become popular lately (Rift, TOR, TSW and a few other games have it).  With EQ2 combat being so fluid, i have a hard time just spamming same button over and over waiting for my spell to trigger in these newer games.  But yet, here i am, still playing those games, because ultimately, they are still interesting on some level despite the combat shortcomings.  And even though DCUO has better combat, I'm not playing it because i don't like other aspects of it.

     

     



    sure you are right there are several aspects to success - but tor has a strong franchise and is from a company with a very good reputation - two things tsw doesnt have... the secret world has really good aspects, but that doesnt mean we cant and shouldnt make it better in other areas as well

  • Nemesis7884Nemesis7884 ZurichPosts: 880Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kazuhiro

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    Almost agree with that. However #4 I can't agree with in the aspect of making things "less realistic" any more unrealistic stuff in this game (See 20 foot high bunny hopping for example) and it will have to be reclassified as a purely fantasy genre game.



    dunno how to multiquote so im sorry - by making it more flashy/fun to watch, i dont want to make it like some asian action game - dont get me wrong, but i do think some effects right now are not even on pair of what they would look in real reality (sticky bomb from ar for example) - the combat looking fun/dynamic/effectful/ will lead to the combat feel fun/dynamic/effectful - thats where this game needs to be heading - look at a game like the witcher 2 for example, its pretty realistic but the combat still looks and feels more BOOOM than the secret world... believe me i loved aoc especially for being realistic and not high fantasy - and thats why im a sucker for tsw - but aoc still had that WOW effect tsw combat simply doesnt have

    having for example a grenade ripping zombies into pieces, blood, guts everywhere, smoke, a big kaboom, earth/screen shaking, npcs that are clos getting thrown to the ground and half zombie torsos still crawling into my direction is realistc...

    impaling the zombie with its own ripped off arm not so much...(altough that would be kinda fun too)

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member

    Originally posted by Nemesis7884

    1) speed it up 25%

    2) allow players to actively dodge (as in gw2)

    3) possibly allow players to actively block and push back enemies

    4) make animations of characers much more dynamic and action oriented (less realistic but better looking) - you should feel the impact your weapon has and the hits of the enemy - make enemies stagger from heavy blows and make your character stagger from heavy blows

    5) imrove the sound effects to fit the combat - see 4

    6) improve the effects (visually and mechanically) of attacks - if something goes boom it should go BOOM and not pffff.... and enemies should feel that

    7) possibily make skills more dynamic, interactive - with other skills and other players and more action oriented

    1)  I'm fine with the speed.

    2)  Yes

    3)  Probably not going to happen because that stuff is incorporated with their state mechanic, but a more clear representation of that happening would be nice.

    4)  I agree with you to a point.  I think they don't want our characters becoming super-heroes though.  Fine line to ride with this one.

    5)  I like most of the sounds for combat actually.  I can't stand the Assault Rifle however.

    6) Well there are some effects that this does work for, but they are generally the more powerful abilities.  In general this could be looked at I agree.

    7)  This I don't even know what it means.  You can use any ability on the move.  The states you create are combos other players can build off of.  Skills are already dynamic and interactive with other skills that you use or other players used based on the states of said target(s).  Now if you're talking VISUAL represenation of said mechanics that are already in the game, I completely agree with you.  Many times it's difficult to realize when you have a critical hit vs. glancing blow, with the exception of actually reading on your screen that is.

     

  • dumbo11dumbo11 GuildfordPosts: 134Member

    Short answer "have less combat".

    The game is very niche, and that niche is all to do with the world, lore and puzzles.  I don't think anyone is going to play TSW because "they want to beat zombies up, over and over and over again".

    Make combat harder, but make it less frequent.

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