Originally posted by Aerowyn you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
I think you might be misunderstanding personal opinion and experience. You're twisting that into "spreading false information". Might want to remind yourself that these are just passionate gamers expressing their personal opinions. And I've roleplayed in mmos for quite a while and have never shared your bleak outlook. Again, personal experience. Mine is no more fact than yours.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
the whole point is you CANNOT progress how you want you HAVE to go to kingmouth first you HAVE to kill the monster close to the starter area or do starter quests at the police station or you cannot kill things far away from that area because they will kill you instantly. You don't have freedom in this game outside what skills you choose if you think you do you are being delusional.. its a straight themepark game which is fine and i enjoy it
A pure themepark game, is level based / class based and forces you via strict leveling path. Often refered to as handholding you from beginning to end.
Plus, we don't know if we are always forced to go to Kingsmouth first (simply because your faction storyline says so). Right now, we only have access to Kingsmouth, so we don't know how all the other zones look like and how they are designed.
In of the earlier interviews with Ragnar, he clearly said that you would not be forced to follow a "forced" path. That you could go anywhere, quest anywhere, group up with anyone you wanted. Basically play the game any way you want.
So we will have to see in coming beta weekends, when the game gets opened up more.
The ability wheel / skill tree system is very typically sandbox like, as it gives you TOTAL freedom to create your character anyway you want!
You are not bound to a specific class and forced to roll ALT's to experience a different build. Wich again is the very definition of Themepark.
That's what me and others say with a hybrid Themepark/sandbox game. Same as with Fallen Earth, wich also has both Themepark and sandbox elements.
Skyrim, the latest Elder Scrolls game, has themepark element in form of leveling system and a storyline you can follow, but everything else in the game is very much Sandbox style, as you are not forced to create a specific class (you are free to develop your character the way you want), nor forced to follow the storyline.
I'm in CB and I can't spoil anything but progression in this game is as linear as it gets. I love the skill wheel and its why I enjoy the game but that does not make the game in anyway sandbox. In Rift my Cleric could fill all 4 roles in the game and had a huge number of combinations i could choose from so from your view Rift has sandbox elements because of just how the skill system works. I also wouldn't consider Elder Scrolls games sandbox games unless you are talking mods but thats a differn't story. Guess we have very differn't view of what a sandbox is.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
No one is spreading false information. It actually is you that spreads false information to just slap the generic Themepark label on this game and see everything pure Black & White.
I am very much a sandbox fan, like the other posters, and also love themepark games. So I know what a sandbox game is and what a themepark game is.
The difference between you and me, is that I do not see everything Black & White and just slap a generic label on a game that truly tries to be different and step away from the typical Themepark (WoW / EQ2) model.
Just like Fallen Earth and Skyrim did.
They are not pure sandbox games, nor are they pure Themepark games. They are hybrids! As they tried to combine both sandbox as themepark elements into their game to create something different!
I leave it by this, no point continue to argue with someone that sees everything pure Black & White and needs to put a strict label on each game.
you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
I think you might be misunderstanding personal opinion and experience. You're twisting that into "spreading false information". Might want to remind yourself that these are just passionate gamers expressing their personal opinions. And I've roleplayed in mmos for quite a while and have never shared your bleak outlook. Again, personal experience. Mine is no more fact than yours.
so if I went into Rift and leveled 4 characters in compelely different ways 1. all quests, 2. All Rifts/invasion 3. All PVP 4. All Dungeons I could call Rift a sandbox since I have freedom to do what I want? It just doesn't work that way I can't just make up a game is something its not because In my head it feels that way... or guess you can.. people can beleive what they want I suppose who am I to say whats real and not real.. I walk through kingsmouth and see cloned walls/textures/models everywhere but you say you don't who is right? who is wrong?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i suppose i shouldn't be surprised that this thread inevitably mutated into a sandbox vs themepark debate. i personally decided to read through the posts to read responses to the actual question about the intended target...
certainly ths mature game is for a specific gaming audience. the world setting, theme, and art direction will appeal to those that are willing to overlook any gameplay mechanics that they don't personally like or enjoy. some will play the game despite the setting because they do appreciate the different approach to questing/combat/etc. some will play because they like it all.
personally, i am drawn to something other than fantasy, and appreciate the more methodical approach to missions and theory-crafting made available with the skill wheel. while the combat animation feels more clunky than i'd like right now, i understand it is being improved, and that there is a price to pay for full movement while combat casting/swinging/shooting.
as stated above, some will love the game and design choices and some will hate it. instead of simply either/or however, i also believe there will be a sizable number of mmo gamers that are simply ambivalent about the whole thing.
my verdict is that TSW will find a devoted and sizable enough following...somewhere in between the niche of Fallen Earth and EVE (other games i really enjoy), and the other huge-budget AAA titles aimed at maximizing subs by utilizing safe gameplay conventions and setting.
Besides the obviously condescending comments I'm seeing thrown around about mouth-breathing endgamers vs intellectual problem solvers, there is some merit to the discussion of who this game was designed for. It does require much more patience and the will to solve puzzles. You have to think more about Myst and less about WoW. You aren't going to simply run around and do combat here, and that is going to feel very slow for a large number of gamers who prefer something that caters to attention deficit culture. If you are one of those people who's going to follow online quest guides so you can get yourself through the conent faster, you are missing the point entirely and speeding towards nowhere.
..............<snip>
I think Funcom better sit back and start thinking about those people who *are* going to play and enjoy this game, and what features they specifically would love. If they focus on people who are more in the realm of WoW and GW2 in an effort to try to make this game mainstream, they are barking up the wrong tree. If it was my game to design, I would immediately start planning for things like player housing, more RP elements, social elements and events, lots of collections and minigames, live events, deeper crafting, more challenging puzzles, etc. If they don't, the crowd of intellectual gamers this game may attract will get bored and go play something more action oriented like GW2, or just go back to reading.
Very good post. I find it interesting that people keep comparing this one to GW2, as if they aren't facing very similar problems.
Both games are challenged with having content that centers around patience, curiosity, and creative problem solving in a market where the average player doesn't use any of those things. I think you are absolutely right that they do indeed need to think about who they are making this game for, and it's something they should've been doing from day 1. If they are smart, I also think that they actually should be looking at GW2 for some help in this regard. I'm not saying they should be copying GW2's design, but Anet designed the entire game around social interaction, and there's pleanty of things to take from that if you are concerned with making a game that has a stronger social experience. You don't need to clone something in order to learn from it.
A lot of the features you mentioned, while it would make the game more fun to the soloer, most don't inherently do anything to help make the game more social. We've seen this before w/ other MMOs. They need more elements that will make it more enjoyable playing w/ others (maybe open groups), I think that would go a long way. More challenging content would be great, but I don't think that should be the first thing they focus on.
Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by DannyGlover
Originally posted by Aerowyn
you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
I think you might be misunderstanding personal opinion and experience. You're twisting that into "spreading false information". Might want to remind yourself that these are just passionate gamers expressing their personal opinions. And I've roleplayed in mmos for quite a while and have never shared your bleak outlook. Again, personal experience. Mine is no more fact than yours. so if I went into Rift and leveled 4 characters in compelely different ways 1. all quests, 2. All Rifts/invasion 3. All PVP 4. All Dungeons I could call Rift a sandbox since I have freedom to do what I want? It just doesn't work that way I can't just make up a game is something its not because In my head it feels that way... or guess you can.. people can beleive what they want I suppose who am I to say whats real and not real.. I walk through kingsmouth and see cloned walls/textures/models everywhere but you say you don't who is right? who is wrong? hmm. well you seem to be the only one around here trying to tell people what to think. Ive already stated my opinion on the matter and I concede it is just my opinion. Im not trying to get people to agree with me. Not trying to piss anyone off but apparently its getting under your skin. So I'll just bow out. Have a good one.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
I think you might be misunderstanding personal opinion and experience. You're twisting that into "spreading false information". Might want to remind yourself that these are just passionate gamers expressing their personal opinions. And I've roleplayed in mmos for quite a while and have never shared your bleak outlook. Again, personal experience. Mine is no more fact than yours.
so if I went into Rift and leveled 4 characters in compelely different ways 1. all quests, 2. All Rifts/invasion 3. All PVP 4. All Dungeons I could call Rift a sandbox since I have freedom to do what I want? It just doesn't work that way I can't just make up a game is something its not because In my head it feels that way... or guess you can.. people can beleive what they want I suppose who am I to say whats real and not real.. I walk through kingsmouth and see cloned walls/textures/models everywhere but you say you don't who is right? who is wrong?
The very definition of a pure themepark MMO is level / class based, linear gear dependend progression and content being strictly devided into specific level ranges.
So tell me, how The Secret World, Fallen Earth and Skyrim fall in that category and are to be labeled as exact carbon copies of games like WoW, EQ2 and LOTRO and Rift, who DO fall into that category like a silk glove??
PS. Rift HAS 4 classes! Like it or not. The skill trees are basically like the Talent trees in WoW (like the druid for example, who can fill in all roles) and AA trees in EQ2 ).
you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
No one is spreading false information. It actually is you that spreads false information to just slap the generic Themepark label on this game and see everything pure Black & White.
I am very much a sandbox fan, like the other posters, and also love themepark games. So I know what a sandbox game is and what a themepark game is.
The difference between you and me, is that I do not see everything Black & White and just slap a generic label on a game that truly tries to be different and step away from the typical Themepark (WoW / EQ2) model.
Just like Fallen Earth and Skyrim did.
They are not pure sandbox games, nor are they pure Themepark games. They are hybrids! As they tried to combine both sandbox as themepark elements into their game to create something different!
I leave it by this, no point continue to argue with someone that sees everything pure Black & White and needs to put a strict label on each game.
never said there could not be hybrids I just have found nothing in this game that could be considered sandboxy here as far as progression The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way"of playing the game.
thing is with this game you do not have multiple ways to progress in that sense Rift and even SWTOR is more sandboxish. My only point was this game is about as pure themepark as it gets which liek I said is just fine by me
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
they made this game specifically for me. it has all the things I like.... mystery, action, horror, parts of gory insanity, secret societies, hints of the apocalypse, the internet, nice clothes.....
Sorry my friend, but maybe you should go back to WoW and play that for a while again. Refresh your memory! And then come back and try out TSW again.
Saying TSW is a WoW clone with some puzzle and investigation quests tucked in is just plain wrong!
- TSW is not a themepark game! It has no level progression. Nor typical gear dependend progression.
- TSW has no endgame that involves and endless gear grind to create Uber L337 characters to WTF pawn other players in PVP or sit in Ironforge to show how L337 you are.
Need to go on??
Rest my case.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
People that want a themepark with more planning and thinking involved and more natural questing and a bit more openness. People who want a string story while still being an actual mmo. People who want gw1 style pvp with the build synergy meta game.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Sorry my friend, but maybe you should go back to WoW and play that for a while again. Refresh your memory! And then come back and try out TSW again.
Saying TSW is a WoW clone with some puzzle and investigation quests tucked in is just plain wrong!
- TSW is not a themepark game! It has no level progression. Nor typical gear dependend progression.
- TSW has no endgame that involves and endless gear grind to create Uber L337 characters to WTF pawn other players in PVP or sit in Ironforge to show how L337 you are.
Need to go on??
Rest my case.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
you misunderstand I enjoy the game but people are spreading a lot of false information about the game and I'm also a huge sandbox fan and this game is not sandbox in the least.. and like I said I'm fine with that, game was never said to be a sandbox its a pure themepark which is fine. As for RP I been playing MMO since the start of it all RPing outside a very small groups of people and usually just couple friends or guilds is pretty much dead. I played in RP servers in pretty much every single game that offered them and people just do not RP much at all these days, just how it is
No one is spreading false information. It actually is you that spreads false information to just slap the generic Themepark label on this game and see everything pure Black & White.
I am very much a sandbox fan, like the other posters, and also love themepark games. So I know what a sandbox game is and what a themepark game is.
The difference between you and me, is that I do not see everything Black & White and just slap a generic label on a game that truly tries to be different and step away from the typical Themepark (WoW / EQ2) model.
Just like Fallen Earth and Skyrim did.
They are not pure sandbox games, nor are they pure Themepark games. They are hybrids! As they tried to combine both sandbox as themepark elements into their game to create something different!
I leave it by this, no point continue to argue with someone that sees everything pure Black & White and needs to put a strict label on each game.
never said there could not be hybrids I just have found nothing in this game that could be considered sandboxy here as far as progression The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way"of playing the game.
thing is with this game you do not have multiple ways to progress in that sense Rift and even SWTOR is more sandboxish. My only point was this game is about as pure themepark as it gets which liek I said is just fine by me
/sigh
A pure sandbox game is having total freedom! Play the game how you want, progress how you want, no levels, no classes, create and progress a character just how you want.
In The Secret World there is no right nor wrong way to play the game!
In a Themepark game you CANNOT group with a high level friend and go to a high level zone and level up / progress there.
In The Secret World, there are no levels! So you can team up with friends who have unlocked more skills and so pick up more difficult missions in other zones and progress there. No restrictions.
That is exactly what Ragnar explained in earlier interviews.
In my book that is FREEDOM without restrictions! No right or wrong way to progress your character!
Ofcourse, if you prefer to totally isolate yourself from everyone else and play this as a single player game, you will be restricted into what you can handle based on your characters progression! Which is the EXACT same even in a pure sandbox game. The difference is that it might give you the illusion of freedom, if its a single seamless world where mob difficulty is randomly spread out! It's still an illusion.
The fact is, you can not slap a generic Themepark label on a game like TSW! As it has NO classes and NO levels! NO right nor wrong way to play the game!
Re: gear and power its kinda a inverse of your wow style gear curve, early on your increasing in raw power piling up the ranks on just a couple of weapons and pumping the 3 core stats, eventually its more about diversity, getting multiple builds and fine tuning your gear to complement those builds. So to being with its more about power as you "level" its less about power more about diversity, so its the opposite of wow style games where early doors its more about getting your abilities and getting more diverse, but end game is just about raw power, often exponentialy with the tiered raiding setup.
So gear is important, but its important for different stuff as you level. This us good they can make end game pve more challenging by making you reliant on multiple builds, without making pvp about who defeated the latest raid.
I wouldn't waste my time with her, Jero. She's just trolling. She even pulled the "I'm in CB" card lol. It only takes two minutes of reading her post history to know thats a lie.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
Anyone (not bound by NDA) know if the gear gets really cool, at least? Is it the sort of gear people will get excited about? I know, some people will get excited about every little +1, but I mean, beyond that.. A gear treadmill isn't so bad, as long as the system for it is done well enough to keep players always looking forward to the thrill of the next drop.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I wouldn't waste my time with her, Jero. She's just trolling. She even pulled the "I'm in CB" card lol. It only takes two minutes of reading her post history to know thats a lie.
lie? how so I got in on the 5th but didn't realise it till just before this open beta but believe what you want.. actually if you read my post history you can see I talk about it.. but liek I said before you go on a believe what makes you happy and Ill continue to enjoy the CB
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sorry my friend, but maybe you should go back to WoW and play that for a while again. Refresh your memory! And then come back and try out TSW again.
Saying TSW is a WoW clone with some puzzle and investigation quests tucked in is just plain wrong!
- TSW is not a themepark game! It has no level progression. Nor typical gear dependend progression.
- TSW has no endgame that involves and endless gear grind to create Uber L337 characters to WTF pawn other players in PVP or sit in Ironforge to show how L337 you are.
Need to go on??
Rest my case.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
ROFL! SWG pre-NGE was a defined as a pure sandbox game! Yet it had very much different XP bars for the different Skill tiers. Combat XP bar, Non-combat XP bar and Crafting XP bar (if I remember correctly or at least two).
Yet it was also gear dependend. Gear VERY MUCH mattered in that game also. Everyone remember the crafted 99,95% resistance composite armor lol.
There has to be some form of messurement in how you make progress. In Darkfall the XP bar is basically hidden within the skills itself. You need to use (read spam) a sertain skill a specific amount of times to unlock the next rank, etc, etc. Plus it also has gear to make you stronger!
In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.
But most power comes directly from the Ability wheel and Skill trees.
True I was a bit harsh, normally I would simply type an informative reply. But that guy was not just uninformed, he down right saying the opposite of what exist in the game, and I'd wager knowingly so. Hence the proverbial beatdown he deserved for spreading pure misinformation. People like him should be getting studied in labratories to see what caused them to become that way so we can take one step forward in cleaning up the human race's gene pool.
As to the guy above that asked about how "cool" gear is. The game doesn't have visual gear. It's just an icon + numbers for stats next to it. Your visual appearance is tied to non-stat giving clothing. This will be the basis primarily of the game's cash shop. (Though you can grind for a few months to buy say a pair of glasses with in-game currency.) This is one of the better aspects of the game, as later on most people can look very different while having the same gear/stats. Sadly at start almsot everyone has cloens galore due to like 50 total appearance combinations.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
Anyone (not bound by NDA) know if the gear gets really cool, at least? Is it the sort of gear people will get excited about? I know, some people will get excited about every little +1, but I mean, beyond that.. A gear treadmill isn't so bad, as long as the system for it is done well enough to keep players always looking forward to the thrill of the next drop.
He hasn't even played the game himself lol. As gear in this game has no stats whatsoever! You can collect any gear you want and dress up and look any way you like!
You character has trinket and talisman slots in which you can slot items to further progress your character. Like +HP, +hit rating, +heal rating and such.
I expect that further in the game, you are able to collect better more poweful trinkets and talismans either via crafting or via the hardmore/nightmare mode dungeons.
Like sandbox games don't have that kind of progression elements? right right.
Sorry my friend, but maybe you should go back to WoW and play that for a while again. Refresh your memory! And then come back and try out TSW again.
Saying TSW is a WoW clone with some puzzle and investigation quests tucked in is just plain wrong!
- TSW is not a themepark game! It has no level progression. Nor typical gear dependend progression.
- TSW has no endgame that involves and endless gear grind to create Uber L337 characters to WTF pawn other players in PVP or sit in Ironforge to show how L337 you are.
Need to go on??
Rest my case.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
TSW has vertical and horizontal progression, that's what the devs have been talking about.
The vertical progression comes from gear
The horizontal progression comes from abilities - and gear, described below
Regarding the endgame I don't quite agree with you there. The devs have been talking about "endgame" gear that gets more specific. In other words instead of the gear giving for example +10 penetration, +10 critial, +10 critical damage you can on one type of mob find gear with +30 critical and on another find gear with +30 critical damage. One type of gear isn't "better" than the other, it just does other things.
Ofcourse you will do better with a penetration build with gear that gives +30 penetration rating than the +10 penetration/critall/crit damage gear, but the difference won't probably be so huge. It just does that part of it better.
I don't know if they will succeed with this horizontal gear progression, but it's a good idea to avoid PvP combat being 80% about gear and 20% skill selection. Hmm... I was assuming you are talking about power in PvP. If you talked about PvE, it will be endgame mob specific what kind of gear works best.
Regarding the Themepark/Sandbox argument, the developers have called the game a Themepark where you can go on any ride you want. I assume they are talking about the game opening more up later on and being less linear. The rides being the quests I assume, except for a very small minority you can take any quest you want.
Sorry my friend, but maybe you should go back to WoW and play that for a while again. Refresh your memory! And then come back and try out TSW again.
Saying TSW is a WoW clone with some puzzle and investigation quests tucked in is just plain wrong!
- TSW is not a themepark game! It has no level progression. Nor typical gear dependend progression.
- TSW has no endgame that involves and endless gear grind to create Uber L337 characters to WTF pawn other players in PVP or sit in Ironforge to show how L337 you are.
Need to go on??
Rest my case.
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
ROFL! SWG pre-NGE was a defined as a pure sandbox game! Yet it had very much different XP bars for the different Skill tiers. Combat XP bar, Non-combat XP bar and Crafting XP bar (if I remember correctly or at least two).
Yet it was also gear dependend. Gear VERY MUCH mattered in that game also. Everyone remember the crafted 99,95% resistance composite armor lol.
There has to be some form of messurement in how you make progress. In Darkfall the XP bar is basically hidden within the skills itself. You need to use (read spam) a sertain skill a specific amount of times to unlock the next rank, etc, etc. Plus it also has gear to make you stronger!
In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.
But most power comes directly from the Ability wheel and Skill trees.
Trinkets, talismans and weapons are the gear in TSW. And trinkets, talismans and weapons do have stats on them and the stats do get progressively higher.
Stop trying to make this game out to be something that it's not, it's downright dishonest. It's a themepark game, through and through. Picking and choosing what abilities to slot won't make TSW a sandbox game any more than it made GW1 and Rift sandbox games.
Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with themepark games.
ROFL! SWG pre-NGE was a defined as a pure sandbox game! Yet it had very much different XP bars for the different Skill tiers. Combat XP bar, Non-combat XP bar and Crafting XP bar (if I remember correctly or at least two).
Yet it was also gear dependend. Gear VERY MUCH mattered in that game also. Everyone remember the crafted 99,95% resistance composite armor lol.
There has to be some form of messurement in how you make progress. In Darkfall the XP bar is basically hidden within the skills itself. You need to use (read spam) a sertain skill a specific amount of times to unlock the next rank, etc, etc. Plus it also has gear to make you stronger!
In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.
But most power comes directly from the Ability wheel and Skill trees.
Gear comes in tiers and is broken down into hats, rings, necklaces and weapons. Each tier has increasing stats and some stat diversity. Tier gear is divided into gear for tanks, healers and dps by the stat allocation. If you don't unlock the ability to use higher tiers of gear you can't equip it. If you can't equip the tier gear appropriate to the area you are playing in you will die.
Gear has stats which include + to attack power, + to hit points, + to hit, + to penetration, + to crit and so on.
They don't call it levels but the tier gear you have equipped automatically creates them. Of course you can go into a tier 3 questing area with tier 1 gear and get stomped.
Additionally, quests later in the game are sometimes locked unless you have done quests in earlier parts of the game.
Let's not pretend that you can go where you want and do what you want in this game.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Comments
I think you might be misunderstanding personal opinion and experience. You're twisting that into "spreading false information". Might want to remind yourself that these are just passionate gamers expressing their personal opinions. And I've roleplayed in mmos for quite a while and have never shared your bleak outlook. Again, personal experience. Mine is no more fact than yours.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I'm in CB and I can't spoil anything but progression in this game is as linear as it gets. I love the skill wheel and its why I enjoy the game but that does not make the game in anyway sandbox. In Rift my Cleric could fill all 4 roles in the game and had a huge number of combinations i could choose from so from your view Rift has sandbox elements because of just how the skill system works. I also wouldn't consider Elder Scrolls games sandbox games unless you are talking mods but thats a differn't story. Guess we have very differn't view of what a sandbox is.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No one is spreading false information. It actually is you that spreads false information to just slap the generic Themepark label on this game and see everything pure Black & White.
I am very much a sandbox fan, like the other posters, and also love themepark games. So I know what a sandbox game is and what a themepark game is.
The difference between you and me, is that I do not see everything Black & White and just slap a generic label on a game that truly tries to be different and step away from the typical Themepark (WoW / EQ2) model.
Just like Fallen Earth and Skyrim did.
They are not pure sandbox games, nor are they pure Themepark games. They are hybrids! As they tried to combine both sandbox as themepark elements into their game to create something different!
I leave it by this, no point continue to argue with someone that sees everything pure Black & White and needs to put a strict label on each game.
so if I went into Rift and leveled 4 characters in compelely different ways 1. all quests, 2. All Rifts/invasion 3. All PVP 4. All Dungeons I could call Rift a sandbox since I have freedom to do what I want? It just doesn't work that way I can't just make up a game is something its not because In my head it feels that way... or guess you can.. people can beleive what they want I suppose who am I to say whats real and not real.. I walk through kingsmouth and see cloned walls/textures/models everywhere but you say you don't who is right? who is wrong?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i suppose i shouldn't be surprised that this thread inevitably mutated into a sandbox vs themepark debate. i personally decided to read through the posts to read responses to the actual question about the intended target...
certainly ths mature game is for a specific gaming audience. the world setting, theme, and art direction will appeal to those that are willing to overlook any gameplay mechanics that they don't personally like or enjoy. some will play the game despite the setting because they do appreciate the different approach to questing/combat/etc. some will play because they like it all.
personally, i am drawn to something other than fantasy, and appreciate the more methodical approach to missions and theory-crafting made available with the skill wheel. while the combat animation feels more clunky than i'd like right now, i understand it is being improved, and that there is a price to pay for full movement while combat casting/swinging/shooting.
as stated above, some will love the game and design choices and some will hate it. instead of simply either/or however, i also believe there will be a sizable number of mmo gamers that are simply ambivalent about the whole thing.
my verdict is that TSW will find a devoted and sizable enough following...somewhere in between the niche of Fallen Earth and EVE (other games i really enjoy), and the other huge-budget AAA titles aimed at maximizing subs by utilizing safe gameplay conventions and setting.
Very good post. I find it interesting that people keep comparing this one to GW2, as if they aren't facing very similar problems.
Both games are challenged with having content that centers around patience, curiosity, and creative problem solving in a market where the average player doesn't use any of those things. I think you are absolutely right that they do indeed need to think about who they are making this game for, and it's something they should've been doing from day 1. If they are smart, I also think that they actually should be looking at GW2 for some help in this regard. I'm not saying they should be copying GW2's design, but Anet designed the entire game around social interaction, and there's pleanty of things to take from that if you are concerned with making a game that has a stronger social experience. You don't need to clone something in order to learn from it.
A lot of the features you mentioned, while it would make the game more fun to the soloer, most don't inherently do anything to help make the game more social. We've seen this before w/ other MMOs. They need more elements that will make it more enjoyable playing w/ others (maybe open groups), I think that would go a long way. More challenging content would be great, but I don't think that should be the first thing they focus on.
I think you might be misunderstanding personal opinion and experience. You're twisting that into "spreading false information". Might want to remind yourself that these are just passionate gamers expressing their personal opinions. And I've roleplayed in mmos for quite a while and have never shared your bleak outlook. Again, personal experience. Mine is no more fact than yours.
so if I went into Rift and leveled 4 characters in compelely different ways 1. all quests, 2. All Rifts/invasion 3. All PVP 4. All Dungeons I could call Rift a sandbox since I have freedom to do what I want? It just doesn't work that way I can't just make up a game is something its not because In my head it feels that way... or guess you can.. people can beleive what they want I suppose who am I to say whats real and not real.. I walk through kingsmouth and see cloned walls/textures/models everywhere but you say you don't who is right? who is wrong?
hmm. well you seem to be the only one around here trying to tell people what to think. Ive already stated my opinion on the matter and I concede it is just my opinion. Im not trying to get people to agree with me. Not trying to piss anyone off but apparently its getting under your skin. So I'll just bow out. Have a good one.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
The very definition of a pure themepark MMO is level / class based, linear gear dependend progression and content being strictly devided into specific level ranges.
So tell me, how The Secret World, Fallen Earth and Skyrim fall in that category and are to be labeled as exact carbon copies of games like WoW, EQ2 and LOTRO and Rift, who DO fall into that category like a silk glove??
PS. Rift HAS 4 classes! Like it or not. The skill trees are basically like the Talent trees in WoW (like the druid for example, who can fill in all roles) and AA trees in EQ2 ).
never said there could not be hybrids I just have found nothing in this game that could be considered sandboxy here as far as progression The term sandbox refers more to the mechanics of a game and how, as in a physical sandbox, the user is entertained by his ability to play creatively and with there being "no right way"of playing the game.
thing is with this game you do not have multiple ways to progress in that sense Rift and even SWTOR is more sandboxish. My only point was this game is about as pure themepark as it gets which liek I said is just fine by me
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
they made this game specifically for me. it has all the things I like.... mystery, action, horror, parts of gory insanity, secret societies, hints of the apocalypse, the internet, nice clothes.....
Have you even played the game? Or are you just a compulsive lier?
There is level progression (Hint hint, it has a xp bar for more than just graphics.) This is how you obtain all your skills. And as for gear, this game is """COMPLETELY""" dependant on gear for progression, more so than any other mmo to date. Literally 100% of your stats are derived from gear and gear alone.
The endgame is all about the gear treadmill, even more than other mmos, since gear = power. Your power in pvp will be 80% gear and 20% skill selection.
I nominate you for either the dumbest person or downright biggest compulsive lier on earth. I wish you luck in the competition against the formor iraqi spokesman that claimed there are no US troops in Iraq as they dragged him away to Guantanimo.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
People who want a string story while still being an actual mmo.
People who want gw1 style pvp with the build synergy meta game.
This game is for me.
I will say this game isnt for the narrow minded WoW/Tera clone fanatics who love to "kill 10 rats". Gotta actually think in this game.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
little harsh but at least you see what I was getting at I was starting to feel like will ferrel in zoolander https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG7LjVCj50Y
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
/sigh
A pure sandbox game is having total freedom! Play the game how you want, progress how you want, no levels, no classes, create and progress a character just how you want.
In The Secret World there is no right nor wrong way to play the game!
In a Themepark game you CANNOT group with a high level friend and go to a high level zone and level up / progress there.
In The Secret World, there are no levels! So you can team up with friends who have unlocked more skills and so pick up more difficult missions in other zones and progress there. No restrictions.
That is exactly what Ragnar explained in earlier interviews.
In my book that is FREEDOM without restrictions! No right or wrong way to progress your character!
Ofcourse, if you prefer to totally isolate yourself from everyone else and play this as a single player game, you will be restricted into what you can handle based on your characters progression! Which is the EXACT same even in a pure sandbox game. The difference is that it might give you the illusion of freedom, if its a single seamless world where mob difficulty is randomly spread out! It's still an illusion.
The fact is, you can not slap a generic Themepark label on a game like TSW! As it has NO classes and NO levels! NO right nor wrong way to play the game!
So gear is important, but its important for different stuff as you level. This us good they can make end game pve more challenging by making you reliant on multiple builds, without making pvp about who defeated the latest raid.
I wouldn't waste my time with her, Jero. She's just trolling. She even pulled the "I'm in CB" card lol. It only takes two minutes of reading her post history to know thats a lie.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Anyone (not bound by NDA) know if the gear gets really cool, at least? Is it the sort of gear people will get excited about? I know, some people will get excited about every little +1, but I mean, beyond that.. A gear treadmill isn't so bad, as long as the system for it is done well enough to keep players always looking forward to the thrill of the next drop.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
lie? how so I got in on the 5th but didn't realise it till just before this open beta but believe what you want.. actually if you read my post history you can see I talk about it.. but liek I said before you go on a believe what makes you happy and Ill continue to enjoy the CB
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
ROFL! SWG pre-NGE was a defined as a pure sandbox game! Yet it had very much different XP bars for the different Skill tiers. Combat XP bar, Non-combat XP bar and Crafting XP bar (if I remember correctly or at least two).
Yet it was also gear dependend. Gear VERY MUCH mattered in that game also. Everyone remember the crafted 99,95% resistance composite armor lol.
There has to be some form of messurement in how you make progress. In Darkfall the XP bar is basically hidden within the skills itself. You need to use (read spam) a sertain skill a specific amount of times to unlock the next rank, etc, etc. Plus it also has gear to make you stronger!
In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.
But most power comes directly from the Ability wheel and Skill trees.
True I was a bit harsh, normally I would simply type an informative reply. But that guy was not just uninformed, he down right saying the opposite of what exist in the game, and I'd wager knowingly so. Hence the proverbial beatdown he deserved for spreading pure misinformation. People like him should be getting studied in labratories to see what caused them to become that way so we can take one step forward in cleaning up the human race's gene pool.
As to the guy above that asked about how "cool" gear is. The game doesn't have visual gear. It's just an icon + numbers for stats next to it. Your visual appearance is tied to non-stat giving clothing. This will be the basis primarily of the game's cash shop. (Though you can grind for a few months to buy say a pair of glasses with in-game currency.) This is one of the better aspects of the game, as later on most people can look very different while having the same gear/stats. Sadly at start almsot everyone has cloens galore due to like 50 total appearance combinations.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
He hasn't even played the game himself lol. As gear in this game has no stats whatsoever! You can collect any gear you want and dress up and look any way you like!
You character has trinket and talisman slots in which you can slot items to further progress your character. Like +HP, +hit rating, +heal rating and such.
I expect that further in the game, you are able to collect better more poweful trinkets and talismans either via crafting or via the hardmore/nightmare mode dungeons.
Like sandbox games don't have that kind of progression elements? right right.
TSW has vertical and horizontal progression, that's what the devs have been talking about.
The vertical progression comes from gear
The horizontal progression comes from abilities - and gear, described below
Regarding the endgame I don't quite agree with you there. The devs have been talking about "endgame" gear that gets more specific. In other words instead of the gear giving for example +10 penetration, +10 critial, +10 critical damage you can on one type of mob find gear with +30 critical and on another find gear with +30 critical damage. One type of gear isn't "better" than the other, it just does other things.
Ofcourse you will do better with a penetration build with gear that gives +30 penetration rating than the +10 penetration/critall/crit damage gear, but the difference won't probably be so huge. It just does that part of it better.
I don't know if they will succeed with this horizontal gear progression, but it's a good idea to avoid PvP combat being 80% about gear and 20% skill selection. Hmm... I was assuming you are talking about power in PvP. If you talked about PvE, it will be endgame mob specific what kind of gear works best.
Regarding the Themepark/Sandbox argument, the developers have called the game a Themepark where you can go on any ride you want. I assume they are talking about the game opening more up later on and being less linear. The rides being the quests I assume, except for a very small minority you can take any quest you want.
Trinkets, talismans and weapons are the gear in TSW. And trinkets, talismans and weapons do have stats on them and the stats do get progressively higher.
Stop trying to make this game out to be something that it's not, it's downright dishonest. It's a themepark game, through and through. Picking and choosing what abilities to slot won't make TSW a sandbox game any more than it made GW1 and Rift sandbox games.
Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with themepark games.
Gear comes in tiers and is broken down into hats, rings, necklaces and weapons. Each tier has increasing stats and some stat diversity. Tier gear is divided into gear for tanks, healers and dps by the stat allocation. If you don't unlock the ability to use higher tiers of gear you can't equip it. If you can't equip the tier gear appropriate to the area you are playing in you will die.
Gear has stats which include + to attack power, + to hit points, + to hit, + to penetration, + to crit and so on.
They don't call it levels but the tier gear you have equipped automatically creates them. Of course you can go into a tier 3 questing area with tier 1 gear and get stomped.
Additionally, quests later in the game are sometimes locked unless you have done quests in earlier parts of the game.
Let's not pretend that you can go where you want and do what you want in this game.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.