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Headline: Elder Scrolls Online - The most negatively received "reveal" in MMORPG history

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  • PyscoJuggaloPyscoJuggalo Chicago, ILPosts: 1,114Member

    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Originally posted by morlock9

    Welcome to next week's headline across the gaming community.



    Regardless of the state of the recently revealed game or its ability to stand on it's own as an MMO, the development team has departed significantly from the features that characterized previous Elder Scrolls games and has resulted in a backlash from the fan base.



    With the leak of some detailed information on game play, many have begun to wonder if the title of Elder Scrolls Online should be replaced with something more fitting a traditional MMO "Based upon the lore of the Elder Scrolls Series".



    At a time when most MMO's benifit from exciting announcments, ESO is already being heralded as a falure for lack of vision. This appears to be the most negatively received "reveal" in the history of the modern MMORPG.         

     

    ...and you're basing that on the responses from the boards on this website?  No surprise there, knowing that many of the lurkers here are devoted to sandbox / action games.  I don't see much if any negativity on other websites in regards to the release, with exception to MMORPG.com as usual.

    On the Bethesda forum there has been PLENTY of negative respose.  Sure there are the fanbois, like you probably, but many many people simply saying "This ain't an Elder Scrolls game!"

     

    Want to know why?  Because TES is a sandbox game or for the effing zealous sandboxers, a hybrid sandbox...

    image
    --When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
    --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
    --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
    --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.

  • fadisfadis funkg, GAPosts: 469Member

    I swear it's like the same 50 devs cycling around from company to company afflicting the world with shitty MMOs.

    WE DON'T WANT THIS GAME!  STOP IT!

     

     

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by fadis

    I swear it's like the same 50 devs cycling around from company to company afflicting the world with shitty MMOs.

    WE DON'T WANT THIS GAME!  STOP IT!

     

     

    I fear a few years from now they will conculde not that they make bad MMOs but rather 'MMOs have declined because people dont like MMOs'.

     

     

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • IndolIndol O''Fallon, MOPosts: 189Member

    The bottom line for me is this -

    Would people rather have :

     

    a) an mmo that happens to be an ES game

    or

    b) an ES game that happens to be an mmo

     

    There is a huge difference. Namely, that option a) plays like a typical mmo and b) plays like an actual ES game.

     

    I'm pretty sure people would rather play an online ES game than a more-or-less typical mmo that utilizes ES lore.

     

    If they do end up making a standard-style mmo, you have to ask yourself: what was the point in it being an ES game at all? (other than using the IP to generate interest)

  • odinsrathodinsrath louisville, KYPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    should it be a sandbox ..sure

    should they " cash in " on the theme park genra **from their point of view** sure..why not ..everyone else is doing it..from gw2 to swtor

    their point of view.."everybody hurry!..get on the ship! ..theirs alot of people on here but i bet we can squeeze some more onto it!"... then the boat sinks....

    image

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by odinsrath

    should it be a sandbox ..sure

    should they " cash in " on the theme park genra **from their point of view** sure..why not ..everyone else is doing it..from gw2 to swtor

    their point of view.."everybody hurry!..get on the ship! ..theirs alot of people on here but i bet we can squeeze some more onto it!"... then the boat sinks....

    image

    what the are missing the fans of TES generally dont like those other types of games. Now if their stradgey is to bring in a completely different player base then they might be on to something but they will lose their core at least for this game specifically.

    its like trying to make a soccer match into a basketball game and then be surprised when all your scoccer fans leave.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • odinsrathodinsrath louisville, KYPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by odinsrath

    should it be a sandbox ..sure

    should they " cash in " on the theme park genra **from their point of view** sure..why not ..everyone else is doing it..from gw2 to swtor

    their point of view.."everybody hurry!..get on the ship! ..theirs alot of people on here but i bet we can squeeze some more onto it!"... then the boat sinks....

    image

    what the are missing the fans of TES generally dont like those other types of games. Now if their stradgey is to bring in a completely different player base then they might be on to something but they will lose their core at least for this game specifically.

    its like trying to make a soccer match into a basketball game and then be surprised when all your scoccer fans leave.



    they could care less about fans...they see $$$

    dont be soo dense...just because they would bring out an awfull game dosent mean thet everyone will stop buying their franchise...they will still contuine to bring out knockout titles on xbox / console / pc + with the income that this game will bring..will bring more income for better titles...and yes TESO will still be a hit ..reguardless what teh interwez says ..marketing rules all

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by odinsrath

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Originally posted by odinsrath

    should it be a sandbox ..sure

    should they " cash in " on the theme park genra **from their point of view** sure..why not ..everyone else is doing it..from gw2 to swtor

    their point of view.."everybody hurry!..get on the ship! ..theirs alot of people on here but i bet we can squeeze some more onto it!"... then the boat sinks....

    image

    what the are missing the fans of TES generally dont like those other types of games. Now if their stradgey is to bring in a completely different player base then they might be on to something but they will lose their core at least for this game specifically.

    its like trying to make a soccer match into a basketball game and then be surprised when all your scoccer fans leave.



    they could care less about fans...they see $$$

    dont be soo dense...just because they would bring out an awfull game dosent mean thet everyone will stop buying their franchise...they will still contuine to bring out knockout titles on xbox / console / pc + with the income that this game will bring..will bring more income for better titles...and yes TESO will still be a hit ..reguardless what teh interwez says ..marketing rules all

    oh I understand the basic idea but looking at it from pure dollars think about this:

    1. The fan base for TES is very large, very prooven and works. Morrowind and Skyrim are both huge successes.

    2. fans of other games are playing those other games, what does your game offer them as a reason to switch if its basiclaly the same?

    3. you want to trash your existing fan base in hopes of getting a new fan base that is larger BUT its completely unfamilar terrortory for you. Your current fan base is large, proove, easy to understand

     

    In cases like Darkfall I make the opposite argument. Their fan base is very small and generally speaking complain a lot so it makes sense to target a different audience for DF2. For TES I think that is not a good idea.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,902Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo

     

    On the Bethesda forum there has been PLENTY of negative respose.  Sure there are the fanbois, like you probably, but many many people simply saying "This ain't an Elder Scrolls game!"

     

    Want to know why?  Because TES is a sandbox game or for the effing zealous sandboxers, a hybrid sandbox...

    "only fanbois" say anything positive. Fanboi's for a game and studio we know next to nothing about...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,902Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    2. fans of other games are playing those other games, what does your game offer them as a reason to switch if its basiclaly the same?

    3. you want to trash your existing fan base in hopes of getting a new fan base that is larger BUT its completely unfamilar terrortory for you. Your current fan base is large, proove, easy to understand

    3. This is the beauty of another company handling this game, they don't have to trash TES fans to make this game, as they can still focus 100% on expanding Skyrim, and creating new FO or TES games. It's really as simple as that.

    2. I'll let Zenimax worry about that... they have to cross that bridge on their own afterall, it's up to them to create a reason to play their game.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • odinsrathodinsrath louisville, KYPosts: 814Member Uncommon

    enuff of the BLAH BLAH BLAH like TESO is gonna make the elder scroll franchise fall off the face of the earth...even if they make it..if YOU dont like it..DONT PLAY IT...they will keep bringing out their great titles that were on xbox / console / pc ..geesh everyone get a grip..take a deep breath..its ok

    image

  • Sabic133Sabic133 Louisville, KYPosts: 46Member

    It must be kind of disheartening to work on a game for so many years in secret, only to have people hate it the first 16 minutes you talk about it publically.

  • KelthiusKelthius Troup, TXPosts: 298Member

    Originally posted by odinsrath

    enuff of the BLAH BLAH BLAH like TESO is gonna make the elder scroll franchise fall off the face of the earth...even if they make it..if YOU dont like it..DONT PLAY IT...they will keep bringing out their great titles that were on xbox / console / pc ..geesh everyone get a grip..take a deep breath..its ok

    image

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    image
  • krulerkruler PerthPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Sabic133

    It must be kind of disheartening to work on a game for so many years in secret, only to have people hate it the first 16 minutes you talk about it publically.

     Surely by the same logic the problem may lay in the "Working in secret" part because if they climbed out of their bubble and asked around, even desceetly they would of known this would be the reaction, or they do know and have either constriants (engine, ability to produce or agreement of IP use) or (same old same old lets conform use a industry template and delude ourselves its a WOW cash machine in the making).

    Either way if they didnt see this coming then it doesnt bode well for them.

    There is no God, there is no Devil, nor Angels and Demons, there is only us, surely thats bad enough, for no creature is able to commit such acts of hate and love, sometimes in the same day.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,902Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kelthius

     

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    2. fans of other games are playing those other games, what does your game offer them as a reason to switch if its basiclaly the same?

    3. you want to trash your existing fan base in hopes of getting a new fan base that is larger BUT its completely unfamilar terrortory for you. Your current fan base is large, proove, easy to understand

    3. This is the beauty of another company handling this game, they don't have to trash TES fans to make this game, as they can still focus 100% on expanding Skyrim, and creating new FO or TES games. It's really as simple as that.

    2. I'll let Zenimax worry about that... they have to cross that bridge on their own afterall, it's up to them to create a reason to play their game.

    3. two different threads completely. the thread of TES Online has the problem of name recogination attracting the wrong player base to look into the game and then react as I have done. if however they created a game called 'barny' they wouldnt have the issue.

    2. its a classic unanswered question. if I play game X why would I play game Y. In fact in business they use the word differentiator to address this exact concern.

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • IIIcurrierIIIcurrier Kalispell, MTPosts: 88Member

    I think maybe this is for the good, now they might realize you can just release crap with a fancy name.

    Stars wars plus this might be a wake up call.

  • LeodiousLeodious Abingdon, VAPosts: 773Member

    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Originally posted by morlock9

    Welcome to next week's headline across the gaming community.



    Regardless of the state of the recently revealed game or its ability to stand on it's own as an MMO, the development team has departed significantly from the features that characterized previous Elder Scrolls games and has resulted in a backlash from the fan base.



    With the leak of some detailed information on game play, many have begun to wonder if the title of Elder Scrolls Online should be replaced with something more fitting a traditional MMO "Based upon the lore of the Elder Scrolls Series".



    At a time when most MMO's benifit from exciting announcments, ESO is already being heralded as a falure for lack of vision. This appears to be the most negatively received "reveal" in the history of the modern MMORPG.         

     

    ...and you're basing that on the responses from the boards on this website?  No surprise there, knowing that many of the lurkers here are devoted to sandbox / action games.  I don't see much if any negativity on other websites in regards to the release, with exception to MMORPG.com as usual.

    But basically, the point is that TES games are pretty powerful, open sandboxes with a heavy action element. Taking that away pretty much guts the feel of the series, and a lot of people feel thta way, not just on these forums, but all over.

     


    Originally posted by kruler

    Originally posted by Sabic133

    It must be kind of disheartening to work on a game for so many years in secret, only to have people hate it the first 16 minutes you talk about it publically.

     Surely by the same logic the problem may lay in the "Working in secret" part because if they climbed out of their bubble and asked around, even desceetly they would of known this would be the reaction, or they do know and have either constriants (engine, ability to produce or agreement of IP use) or (same old same old lets conform use a industry template and delude ourselves its a WOW cash machine in the making).

    Either way if they didnt see this coming then it doesnt bode well for them.

    There have been rumous about this for quite some time, and almost everything I saw included the vast majority of people hoping it was a sandbox and had the level of freedom and the fast-paced combat and all of the many and varied options in any other TES game. They should have been knowing TES players wouldn't love this. 

    So maybe they are planning to go another route? I don't know. It seems weird to me.

    "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."

    — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Kelthius


     

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

    Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

    I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

  • Sabic133Sabic133 Louisville, KYPosts: 46Member

    Originally posted by musicmann

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Kelthius


     

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

    Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

    I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

     

    Arrogance, plain and simple.  You get these guys who have been in the "industry" for awhile, so they think they know what the players want better than the players themselves.  This is exactly the reason we are seeing a rise in kickstarter, open development, alpha funding and the lot.  People want some kind of transparency and insight.  When you are top secret mode up until the last minute, then this kind of thing happens.  You think they really have time to change the core of the game 1 year before release?  probably not.

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,902Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by musicmann

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Kelthius


     

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

    Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

    I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

    Uhmm, I don't know, what else do you expect me to say? I have no idea why they make the decisions they do. Maybe they didn't want to make an MMO, but Zenimax made one anyway?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXPosts: 5,348Member

    Originally posted by Sabic133

    Originally posted by musicmann

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Kelthius

     

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

    Then why isn't Bethesada making it. Why not make the game that people want. Why did they keep it secret for almost 7 yrs. now. Why didn't they take public feedback on what would make the perfect online version of TES and go with that instead of a retread and tired mmo system concept.

    I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.

     

    Arrogance, plain and simple.  You get these guys who have been in the "industry" for awhile, so they think they know what the players want better than the players themselves.  This is exactly the reason we are seeing a rise in kickstarter, open development, alpha funding and the lot.  People want some kind of transparency and insight.  When you are top secret mode up until the last minute, then this kind of thing happens.  You think they really have time to change the core of the game 1 year before release?  probably not.

     

    Thing is I have seen this kind of thing in my personal working life too. its amazing the choices that are made. Some people (not all) are very attracted to power for the sake of power and they tend to elevate  up. Anyway if anyone wants an intresting example of this happening in the past read on wikipedia about the history of Gary Gygax. The father of all RPG's

    Correlation does not imply causation

  • LeodiousLeodious Abingdon, VAPosts: 773Member


    Originally posted by musicmann

    I can't understand why these dev companies keep insisting on these NDA's. They keep so much secret, like it's a national security secret and end up creating something that people hate. Honesty, openess and public feedback  from the first day of creation is what's needed. A room full of investors and secret playtesters are what's ruining this genre the most. I find it funny that developers think that other companies are gonna steal their ideas, when in fact every title plays the same.


    Quoted for truth and sorrow.

    "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."

    — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman

  • KelthiusKelthius Troup, TXPosts: 298Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Kelthius


     

    You don't know that for sure. When was the last time a Warcraft RTS was made? Think we'll see a single player KOTOR anytime soon?

    Totally different situation, Star Wars isn't Bioware's IP, and it's nowhere close to their most important franchise. On the flipside TES is Bethesda's.

    How about DA3 being pushed back for SWTOR (don't know whether it's true)? TES single player will most likely suffer because of this game.

    image
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Uhmm, I don't know, what else do you expect me to say? I have no idea why they make the decisions they do. Maybe they didn't want to make an MMO, but Zenimax made one anyway?

    They wanted to make an MMO.

    You are a CEO of a major corporation.

    You have 2 video game subsidies.

    One has a long running series of very popular games.

    The other is a new group that hasnt produced jack most people know about that is being run by a guy from another MMO that is hell bent on starting another project.

    You cant call that project a sequal to the game he worked on and shouldnt even want to anyway seeing as how long its been since anyone cared about the game...but you can take a product from the other seeing as how they are riding high on a new release and use its name to push the new MMO.

    That is exactly what it is. TESO is going to be TES in name only because its the NAME thats going to be used to push a product that originally had nothing to do with it.

    I actually do hope the game fails hard because it would seem that this industry needs to be slapped more than a few times before it wakes up and sees what they are doing wrong.

    A game does not become popular and stay so because of its NAME. A good story sells SINGLE player RPGs, It may drive original sales of MMOs but it doesnt retain many players.

    EQ2 never became as popular as EQ1 because of the changes in gameplay.

    Asherons Call 2 didnt last 1/6th as long as part 1...because of the changes in gameplay.

    SWTOR will not top KOTORs sales...and the reasons are many including the story sample above.

    Once you have your hands on a beloved series...you need to tred lightly.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

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