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Tired of easy MMOs

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  • Swollen_BeefSwollen_Beef Tampa, FLPosts: 200Member
    Companies want to make money. Yes I get that, but with blizzards success companies don't want to make money now, they want to hit the lottery.
  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by xDayx

    I agree with the OP and welcome to your answer for your post.

    www.mortalonline.com After the next expansion comes out in the next couple weeks try the free trial.

    The developers dont plan to make it easy mode, players can loot anything your wearing or have on you, or kill your mount. If your naked people can see your junk. It is open-world with no maps or quests(learn your way by memorizing how the landscape looks). You will have to be wary of thieves in town and murderers outside of town. If your wearing a helm your view is slightly lessened. No insta-ports, etc.  Its not free-to-play and there is no cash-item shop. You need to eat and sleep lest you starve or run out of stamina/health, dont eat the wrong kind of food because you will puke. Skill-based so no formal classes or levels to restrict you. Nighttime is really really dark. You start the game with rags, a shortsword and pickaxe. Equipment weight and carry weight affects your movement and you could drown if you are too heavy.  There is no RvRvR or WvWvW -Ally yourself with whatever guild you want to and go to war with their enemies if you want to go the PVP/Siege route.  And last but not least the game will even grief you at times with some bugs and the haters of the game are also hardcore. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFI8aHs1Y8&feature=related

    (gameplay trailer from 2 yrs ago though, but it sums it up best imo)

    and

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a4FSjX-F60 

       (video  G(

     

    Or at least go play EVE. And I would agree with above... if you neeeeed to play a themepark, then VG.

     

     

     

     

     

    I was looking at Mortal Online but the reviews say it is extremely buggy. 

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    Originally posted by xDayx

    I agree with the OP and welcome to your answer for your post.

    www.mortalonline.com After the next expansion comes out in the next couple weeks try the free trial.

    The developers dont plan to make it easy mode, players can loot anything your wearing or have on you, or kill your mount. If your naked people can see your junk. It is open-world with no maps or quests(learn your way by memorizing how the landscape looks). You will have to be wary of thieves in town and murderers outside of town. If your wearing a helm your view is slightly lessened. No insta-ports, etc.  Its not free-to-play and there is no cash-item shop. You need to eat and sleep lest you starve or run out of stamina/health, dont eat the wrong kind of food because you will puke. Skill-based so no formal classes or levels to restrict you. Nighttime is really really dark. You start the game with rags, a shortsword and pickaxe. Equipment weight and carry weight affects your movement and you could drown if you are too heavy.  There is no RvRvR or WvWvW -Ally yourself with whatever guild you want to and go to war with their enemies if you want to go the PVP/Siege route.  And last but not least the game will even grief you at times with some bugs and the haters of the game are also hardcore. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFI8aHs1Y8&feature=related

    (gameplay trailer from 2 yrs ago though, but it sums it up best imo)

    and

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a4FSjX-F60 

       (video  G(

     

    Or at least go play EVE. And I would agree with above... if you neeeeed to play a themepark, then VG.

     

     

     

     

     

    I was looking at Mortal Online but the reviews say it is extremely buggy. 

    Oh there are bugs. But you have a choice to make. Continue to support AAA crap or play something with some spine,or quit altogether. Your choice. Ive been playing for about 2 years and the bugs ive incurred had never made me want to play whatever the 'masses' are hyping this month.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by xDayx

     

    Oh there are bugs. But you have a choice to make. Continue to support AAA crap or play something with some spine,or quit altogether. Your choice. Ive been playing for about 2 years and the bugs ive incurred had never made me want to play whatever the 'masses' are hyping this month.

    If it's as buggy as they say then my decision (as stated in my original post) is to quit for now and play single player RPGs.  There are a lot of good ones out there.  A game that doesn't work is still crap regardless of its game play mechanics.

  • TyrranosaurTyrranosaur Albuquerque, NMPosts: 284Member

    As a real casual player I'm actually finding Rift kind of challenging in a not-too-aggravating way. The OP may need to stick with non-MMOs for a while though, as I'm not entirely sure what sort of challenge he's looking for, but if its one where you have to die over and over again dozens of times before finally getting lucky or doing the exact sequence/actions just right, then most of today's MMO crop is not going to offer that. 

    Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
    Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by Tyrranosaur

    As a real casual player I'm actually finding Rift kind of challenging in a not-too-aggravating way. The OP may need to stick with non-MMOs for a while though, as I'm not entirely sure what sort of challenge he's looking for, but if its one where you have to die over and over again dozens of times before finally getting lucky or doing the exact sequence/actions just right, then most of today's MMO crop is not going to offer that. 

    I played Rift and rather enjoyed it for a little bit.  Not too difficult but still somewhat fun.  Hit the level cap, got bored, and quit.  Don't misunderstand me, I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.  I see you played DDO.  I tried that for a couple weeks and I think they did a lot of things right.  Combat could be challaging especially when it is not easy to heal when you are solo-ing and I loved the inclusion of traps.  Also puzzles to solve made you think.  The lack of pollish and extreme use of instancing just got to me.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.

    There's always ways to make your own challenge in the leveling (or any other) content.

    People just don't want to commit to it...I would like the game to hand me "challenge" please. 

    Too lazy...to...consciously...look for...challenge...  {eyes cross}

    Is it really about challenging yourself, you want to be one of those "doing the impossible" raid-boss-soloing video-maker guys?

    Or is it about external validation?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • SkearSkear arlington, TXPosts: 9Member

    Infantry will be one of the most challenging games youve ever played.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.

    There's always ways to make your own challenge in the leveling (or any other) content.

    People just don't want to commit to it...I would like the game to hand me "challenge" please. 

    Too lazy...to...consciously...look for...challenge...  {eyes cross}

    Is it really about challenging yourself, you want to be one of those "doing the impossible" raid-boss-soloing video-maker guys?

    Or is it about external validation?

    Actually, yes, I do expect them to hand me a challenge.  And since I am paying them $15 a month, I don't think that it's unresonable.  If I am playing the game the way it's meant to be played and it's too easy then I'm not about to go out of my way to create a way to make it more challenging.  That's the developers job and it's why I'm paying them.  Since I can't seem gain satisfaction in this I have simply stopped playing MMOs and started playing games that provide the challenge and don't require me to manufacture my own.

  • vee41vee41 TamperePosts: 191Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    Originally posted by Icewhite


    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    I would consider myself a somewhat casual player too but it seems to me most MMOs just make it easy to the extreme.

    There's always ways to make your own challenge in the leveling (or any other) content.

    People just don't want to commit to it...I would like the game to hand me "challenge" please. 

    Too lazy...to...consciously...look for...challenge...  {eyes cross}

    Is it really about challenging yourself, you want to be one of those "doing the impossible" raid-boss-soloing video-maker guys?

    Or is it about external validation?

    Actually, yes, I do expect them to hand me a challenge.  And since I am paying them $15 a month, I don't think that it's unresonable.  If I am playing the game the way it's meant to be played and it's too easy then I'm not about to go out of my way to create a way to make it more challenging.  That's the developers job and it's why I'm paying them.  Since I can't seem gain satisfaction in this I have simply stopped playing MMOs and started playing games that provide the challenge and don't require me to manufacture my own.

    Agree with you there. It's the develoeprs job to do something that keeps the player interested. Sadly the industry standard MMO combat is some random mobs standing around on a field, waiting for players to come and kill them one by one presenting zero challange or excitement in the process. Enemies have became just means of progressing rather than the actual content of the games as it has come to a point there is literally 0 challange in your average MMO fight.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Correction to my post above.  I actually do play 1 MMO still.  I play Wizard101 with my kids and I enjoy it more and it provides more challenge then the AAA MMOs I have played. 

  • BlackbrrdBlackbrrd KongsbergPosts: 811Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


      I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    Get a beta key from gamespot for The Secret World that has an open beta weekend starting tomorrow and come back on monday and tell me how many times you died. I dare you! ;)

    Anyway, the focus in TSW isn't combat in my opinion, since it's partly and adventure game, but Funcom has a tendency to make their games kind of difficult. You can see a bit about how the dungeons are going to be in this preview: http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/secret-world-dungeons/

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member

    Part of the issue is what I call 'The Creator Syndrome'.

     

    The Everquest expansion, Dragons of Norrath, had about 60 different group instance missions.  Each had their own unque objectives.  It didnt take long for the EQ community to figure out the one called 'The Creator' was not only easy, but could be done fairly quickly.  Despite the fact that most people hadn't tried more than 2 or 3 out of the 60 available missions, instead of trying something new people flocked to The Creator.  LFG DoN was synonymous with LFG Creator.  Bascally the masses flocked to the path of least resistance.

     

    Most games out there have challenging content.  People choose to either avoid it for something easier, or stack the deck in their favor by forming the perfect group with the perfect specs  People will always seek out the path of least resistance.

     

    As a side note about EQ2:  It does get harder in later levels.  The older part of the game got thrown out of whack by AAs and stronger gear.  Want a fun challenge for your SK?  Try soloiing same level dungeons or instances.  The games challenge does pick up, but it does take a long time.

  • chillizchilliz londonPosts: 73Member Uncommon

    so basically this whole thread is " because i can level up easier"  the game is easy???

     

    So what a game where you have to spend months leveling is hard?.

     

    Just dont get the point.  Who the hell wants tp spend months or even weeks and weeks leveling.  Why cant you enjoy leveling  even if it dosnt take weeks and months?  whats to stop you from exploor doing anything more difficult?.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

    I absolutely hate your idea.  Games need to challenge a player's quick thinking and strategy.  RPG's need to challenge a players ability to create an effective death machine.  Giving oneself artificial handicaps forces a person to ignore the fun in making effective builds or whatever character progression the game offers.  I want a game that is hard as hell but gives you the tools of badassery.  Dark Souls is a great example of this.  The game wants you dead.  It really does.  But it also gives you the tools to make a very powerful character that might just make it though.  That is fun.  That is how to make RPGs. 

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
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    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • chillizchilliz londonPosts: 73Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    Originally posted by maplestone


    Originally posted by Shmackpappy



     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

    I absolutely hate your idea.  Games need to challenge a player's quick thinking and strategy.  RPG's need to challenge a players ability to create an effective death machine.  Giving oneself artificial handicaps forces a person to ignore the fun in making effective builds or whatever character progression the game offers.  I want a game that is hard as hell but gives you the tools of badassery.  Dark Souls is a great example of this.  The game wants you dead.  It really does.  But it also gives you the tools to make a very powerful character that might just make it though.  That is fun.  That is how to make RPGs. 

     

    In your opinion.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    Originally posted by chilliz

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

    I absolutely hate your idea.  Games need to challenge a player's quick thinking and strategy.  RPG's need to challenge a players ability to create an effective death machine.  Giving oneself artificial handicaps forces a person to ignore the fun in making effective builds or whatever character progression the game offers.  I want a game that is hard as hell but gives you the tools of badassery.  Dark Souls is a great example of this.  The game wants you dead.  It really does.  But it also gives you the tools to make a very powerful character that might just make it though.  That is fun.  That is how to make RPGs. 

     

    In your opinion.

    Thanks for the insightful post.  Luckily you said something or people might have thought that my post wasn't actually my opinion.

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
    image
    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • MahavishnuMahavishnu BerlinPosts: 336Member

    What does challenge mean to you?

    1. powerful quest-mobs

    2. situations where you have to think and make the right decision

    3. raid-content

    4. the option to fail

     

    You are just talking about 1 

    2 would be my favorite one, but most of the players are completely overstrained and ask in the general chat or look up guides in the internet

    3 is the classical answer, but what if some players just do not like such content?

    4 would be revolutionary, you cannot do the same over and over again until you succeed, if you fail something bad happens.

    Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    So, all the game play is at the end game?  I should waste my time for months until I get to the level cap and then it will be fun?  Why would I ever do that.  That makes the game even more pointless.  And, btw, I played for a few months before I finally gave up. 

    Not ALL the gameplay.  But you're 8 years late to the game, you have to allow for the fact that the majority of players aren't doing that stuff no.  8 years ago, level 10-50 dungeons were challenging.    7 years ago, 50-60 dungeons were, etc, etc.   Today, the challenges are in the most recently added content.  Levels 85-92.    Don't get me wrong, if you find enough level 20 people to do a level 20 x4 raid or run Varsoon's, you'll probably still get a decent challenge.  You just won't find that many players at that level.

     

    Also, you don't need to waste months.  You say you want a challenge and you're able to mow down mobs WAY too quickly?  Challenge yourself to get to 92 in a week.  I know plenty of people that have done it in a day.   Of course they had veteran bonuses and things, but for a new player, a week is very doable.  And then you can experience for yourself the really challenging content. 

     

    You can't really expect to join an 8-year-old game and be caught up to where everyone is with no effort whatsoever.  As you saw, SOE has made it very easy to catch up, but you still have to put in SOME effort.

     

    If you decide to do this on Crushbone, I'll be happy to throw you in some money for extra toys to buy along the way. (Although honestly, if you're leveling, you get tons of money and plenty of drops to wear.)  And when you get to 90, i'll help you though a couple of the more difficult things that you may not know about - such as getting your epic weapon done, etc.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    Originally posted by maplestone


    Originally posted by Shmackpappy



     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

    I absolutely hate your idea.  Games need to challenge a player's quick thinking and strategy.  RPG's need to challenge a players ability to create an effective death machine.  Giving oneself artificial handicaps forces a person to ignore the fun in making effective builds or whatever character progression the game offers.  I want a game that is hard as hell but gives you the tools of badassery.  Dark Souls is a great example of this.  The game wants you dead.  It really does.  But it also gives you the tools to make a very powerful character that might just make it though.  That is fun.  That is how to make RPGs. 

    So you want the developer to impose a handicap on you ... and that makes it a completely different experience than imposing it on yourself?

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan


    Originally posted by maplestone


    Originally posted by Shmackpappy



     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

    I absolutely hate your idea.  Games need to challenge a player's quick thinking and strategy.  RPG's need to challenge a players ability to create an effective death machine.  Giving oneself artificial handicaps forces a person to ignore the fun in making effective builds or whatever character progression the game offers.  I want a game that is hard as hell but gives you the tools of badassery.  Dark Souls is a great example of this.  The game wants you dead.  It really does.  But it also gives you the tools to make a very powerful character that might just make it though.  That is fun.  That is how to make RPGs. 

    So you want the developer to impose a handicap on you ... and that makes it a completely different experience than imposing it on yourself?

    He wants the devs to hand him challenge rather than having to to work to create it himself.  It's very linear, superficial thinking.  He does not think that he can play a 'badass' character unless he always uses the most powerful tools at his disposal.   In contrast we tend to view someone as 'badass' when he is able to achieve victory using the bare minimum of tools. 

    This reminds me of a scene in Chronicles of Riddick.  Some guards threaten Riddick so he takes a metal cup and tells  a guard that he will kill him with the cup.  The guard still attack so Riddick kills him with the cup before anyone can even blink.   This illustrates just how dangerous Riddick is and you would not get the same level of 'badass' if he used a gun instead.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy



     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?

    I've tried this a few times.  I've picked the class that is considered under-powered or the one nobody plays.  It didn't make the game that much harder.  It did make it more boring.  I was still able to complete the quests it just took longer.  It is also frustrating if you want a group because nobody wants your class given a choice.

    In one game I even tried turning off the monitor once a fight began to see if I could win just by listening to the sound effects.  I actually did pretty well.

    I really enjoy min-maxing and crunching the numbers so intentionally gimping my skills or  abilities is defeating the purpose of playing the game for me.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

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