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The Elder Scrolls Online: Three-Faction PVP a la DAOC

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  • rottNrottN OdensePosts: 161Member

    Originally posted by Truelevel

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Originally posted by Truelevel


    Originally posted by Zylaxx


    Originally posted by Truelevel

    I really dont see what the problem is, if you were on MMORPG.com when skyrim came out... you would of seen all the threads stating how The Elderscrolls would not make a great mmo. If your looking for TES experience your gunna hafta play the single player Bethseda release

    Im going to buy every 3 faction game coming out until im tired of the DoaC clones XD

    I didnt see 1 post saying any such thing, dont make crap up.  I loved Skyrim and this site exploded with Skyrim joy and many posts detailed how awesome it would be to see a Skyrim sandbox MMO.

     

    A few people here parrot the party line that was fed to them by Zenimax, TES features cant be done but the truth is they are to f***ing scared to take a chance on a sandbox game so they develop WoW clone# 297.  Escpiecally true when you consider everything that was in that release quote has been done before some of it as far back as 1999.  Such as Housing, its a f***ing shame a company will go out of their way to implement an activity that less 10% of the player population will participate in (raiding) but refuse to implement a feature that only 30-50% will be able to take advantage of (player housing) because it cant be done right.  Which means that they cant add enough real estate to offer 100% of players a house.  It makes you go derp thinging of the assinine thinking like this.

    Come on bro, why would I make this up? I did a quick google search because the site search isnt working

    http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Teala/112011/22294_Why-is-Skyrim-such-a-success-and-considered-the-best-MMORPG-that-is-not-an-MMORPG

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5801

    And these arent even the many iv seen regarding making ES games into a mmo ... Read it for yourself you will see that many of the posters said the very same thing I said ... ES is better off single player because its never going to live up to its standard being an MMO

    LOL 200 hundred? only 200 people played Daoc after ToA? LOL you just sound bitter about the TESO not being the game you want it to be... relax its really not that serious

    edit* Zlylaxx - I see what your saying ... your right, I should of worded different... I said "threads" but I meant "Posts"

     

    TESO could live up to the name brand if it actually followed the NAME BRAND.  When you slap a name ontop a WoW clone it doesnt make it magically good.  If Zenimax actually designed the majority of gameplay to follow the TES model, no matter how hard it would be to implement (which I disagree BTW) then you wouldnt have this backlash.

     

    As for the 200 comment, its called Hyperbole and I have yet to see anyone who thinks ToA was a great expansion to DAoC.  Everyone I know, knows that ToA gutted the RvR scene and became the downward spiral to the game.

    Anybody that played Daoc would agree that ToA was bad... 75% of the people that left DoaC at the time of ToA went to play WoW (pure speculation). Left one equipment grind to another... I wanted a sandbox too, but I also understand making the game like skyrim online would be nearly impossible


     

    toa release 2003. wow live 2005

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo MalboroughPosts: 2,767Member

    So basically this is a P2P GW2 with ES lore? I can't see how this could possibly fail.

     

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • free2playerfree2player berlinPosts: 3Member
    Most interesting question for me is: will we have the same boring quest system as in TERA, TOR, WoW, RIFT and all the other "RIP-MMOs" or are they the first AAA-Title that is able to copy the marvelous GW2 event system in all its greatness? Fot those who dont the signs THIS IS THE FUTURE ! Troll out ... :)
  • lenyboblenybob Beaverton, ORPosts: 62Member

    Originally posted by punkrock



    Originally posted by Ilaya






    Originally posted by punkrock












    Originally posted by Ilaya









    Yeah.....





    3 Faction PvP with Hero Engine.





    Illum rings a Bell? *spit*





    Can't be any good. 2013 will give proof of that. Until then, its the usual Marketing "blabla".





    Northing of worth.














     





    SWTOR was two faction with a fail model and nothing to do on there and no point





     So you`re comment /fail

    Plz use Brain mate.

    3 Factions would even mean MORE Players (if so) and not "just" 2. U know what i mean? And Illum, even with 2 Factions, was PvP wise "pain in the butt" for nearly every PC.

    No Fail.

    To the posting above me; Even if modificated Hero Engine, it will not handle that much Polys in RvR.

    But as said, i would be happy as you if they proof that wrong. But until then, SWTOR PvP on Hero Engine is the measurement. And that was Crap, laggy as Hell and so forth.






     

    You have no idea, i used my brain just fine lad, you`re the one that needs to know the basic of 3 faction pvp. Not my fault you grew up with wow and it`s 2 faction type crap or SWTOR. You will be ok just do some reading and research then come back TC.




     

    you are aware most games and sports are styled after two 'faction' or team contest because it creates stronger competition.

     

    it goes back to the blues and greens of the roman empire.

     

    point being, blizzard didn't invent dichotomy. chess, go, football, fencing ... it is really easy to reference a large variety of mechanics tuned to the dichotomous style of game play. 

    by contrast, there aren't any (or at least many) really great trichotamous games. DAOC  or GW2 or w/e doesn't quite capture the dynamic variables required for variable multiplayer combat. similar in many ways to Risk (territorial conquest board game) or a boolean sort. due to unspoken alliances it becomes a 2v1 very easily.

    put another way, lets say there are three servers wanting places one, two, and three. the servers in places two and three both have perogative to go after the server already in first place because beating it would offer the most points. once the king is slain, there is minor conflict/succession between the two princes. but this creates an imballanced play experiance.

     

    it would be difficult to adjust for this type of imballance.

  • YellowbearddYellowbeardd Wetaskiwin, ABPosts: 82Member

    No first person view = crap game

    Tab targeting = crap game

    skill bar= crap game 

    i can go on and on ,how they are wreaking TES , this is just gonna be a game with TES name on it nothing else  and it's gonna blow if they don't change it, look at mortal online to say they can't do first person and free hitting aim action like TES supposed to be just look at mortal online again, they had a crap budget and did it just fine.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Goreson
    Originally posted by Nitth   Originally posted by Vampero 3 Faction PvP is the only way to go !!!!
      why not 6?  
    3 factions is simple perfection: usually one faction will be stronger than the other(s) (see 2 faction games)Having 3 factions will allow the weaker factions to team up against the stronger one.Or if 2 factions are about equally strong and the 3rd faction is (much) weaker, just wait for the 2 big dog to rip each others throat out, and then the underdog comes in for the killing blow.In short: 3 factions means the underdog(s) will have its/their day!More factions and it starts to get complicated: "So, with faction 4 about half as strong as faction 1 and faction 2 about twice as strong as faction 3, should faction 6 join up with faction 5? Or maybe 4 and 1 to take on 5? 3 +1 + 4 + 6? Or 2 + 4 + 5? 1 + 2 + 3 + 6? - you get the idea...

    Does that not lead to more complex and involved gameplay though?

    (im not disagreeing i'm just curious why its never been atleast tried)

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • GoresonGoreson GlasgowPosts: 122Member

    Originally posted by Reizla

    FIXED factions..? I'll pass... If TES online would be a REAL sandbox like the RPG-series, it SHOULD NOT have fixed factions. Let players make their own factions like they should in a real sandbox FFS!




     

    Player created factions, bad idea!

    Reasons:

    1. very likely the - by far - strongest faction will be a player guild. And depending on the overall number of servers, chances are there will only be 1 major guild per server. Can your say "1 guild to rule them all"?

    2. "indie" factions will probably have very low numbers and potentially splinter ever so often: "Oh look the 2 Knights of the Round Table are holding Keep X" said the one Knight of the Rounder Table to the other.

    3. not being forced to be part of a faction will result in a (huge) neutral faction.

    4. player controlled faction means that player can desolve factions reducing the overall number of factions to 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

  • TenebrionTenebrion Hallandale, FLPosts: 179Member

    What a waste of a perfectly good IP. People play TES games for the sandbox features - and yet TES Online will be completely devoid of any freeform gameplay.

    Unless they put an extremely heavy emphasis on PVP & non-instanced "end game" content, the game will be a dud.

    image
    Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
    And overall bitter old man.

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 876Member Common

    Originally posted by ////oo

    So basically this is a P2P GW2 with ES lore? I can't see how this could possibly fail.

     




     

    yeah.....same thing was sayd about a wow-clone with the star wars franchise a while ago.

    Let's just wait and see what they make of it first b4 we start the hype ok??

     

    image
  • ChannceChannce Sacramento, CAPosts: 570Member

    geesh, this game is at least a year away, and ppl are already calling it bad, sucks, fail, etc etc.  some people just cant help it I guess, since they are losers, everything else has to be.

    When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.

  • heocatheocat Mount Rainier, WAPosts: 167Member Uncommon

    Love three faction. Kahjit thief or assasin all the way.

    image

  • JumdorJumdor Magtown, ARPosts: 62Member

     I think it's kind of sad really. 

    I would pay 60 bucks or more if they just added a DLC or something that allowed Multiplayer in Skyrim. 

    Yeah, yeah. Slam me now about how Skyrim was designed single player or some other missguided idea how it doesn't make sense. I don't care for PvP. My friends don't care for PvP. All we want to do is adventure together. Instead we continue to get the same tried and fail formula of build a huge half assed world and watch players blow through content within  weeks. MMORPG dead stick crash and burn. 

    Hell even if I had to subscribe to something to have co-op multiplayer in Skyrim. I would do that. You hardcore soloers can stay true to your game and play it solo. My friends and I can download the content and play multiplayer. Who loses? 

    It doesn't corrupt your game. It doesn't even effect you unless you download it.

    Personally I don't care about details in any replies to this. It was more a personal opinion for something I've wanted for a long time. A detailed grand adventure between friends which still will probably only be found in a Pen and Paper RPG. Oh well such is life. 

    I'm not bothered by this. Hell I might even try it if it looks good. Might even try it if it looks bad. Not bothered but I don't get what is the big deal about solo. Great you like to play with yourself. Good for you some people would like that same level of detail with a little side of multiplayer and without the bonus of strangers running around naked spamming gold sales for real money. 

    Anyway have fun anyone with whatever game you love or hold dear maybe one day on Earth or another world we'll share a beer. Friend or foe may your sun stay high and your coin purse hang low. Good cheer toward all and after the festivities if you still stand may your final adventure be grand as back when it all began. 

    image

    "Love can be innocent and can be sweet, but sometimes about as nice as rotting meat."

  • bilal1019bilal1019 kocaeliPosts: 6Member

    dislike :(

  • arudresaarudresa bucarestPosts: 8Member

    i've played the elder scrolls series since morrowind. i don't like the faction pvp idea. i would've loved more race based factions, with a ruler or more rulers determined by players, with the posibility of an alliance in game. the way it looks, with cartoonish graphics and the horror of a skill tree at the horizon it is not very appealing.

  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Zod, CAPosts: 743Member Uncommon



    Originally posted by rottN



    Originally posted by Truelevel




    Originally posted by Zylaxx




    Originally posted by Truelevel





    Originally posted by Zylaxx





    Originally posted by Truelevel



    I really dont see what the problem is, if you were on MMORPG.com when skyrim came out... you would of seen all the threads stating how The Elderscrolls would not make a great mmo. If your looking for TES experience your gunna hafta play the single player Bethseda release

    Im going to buy every 3 faction game coming out until im tired of the DoaC clones XD


    I didnt see 1 post saying any such thing, dont make crap up.  I loved Skyrim and this site exploded with Skyrim joy and many posts detailed how awesome it would be to see a Skyrim sandbox MMO.

     

    A few people here parrot the party line that was fed to them by Zenimax, TES features cant be done but the truth is they are to f***ing scared to take a chance on a sandbox game so they develop WoW clone# 297.  Escpiecally true when you consider everything that was in that release quote has been done before some of it as far back as 1999.  Such as Housing, its a f***ing shame a company will go out of their way to implement an activity that less 10% of the player population will participate in (raiding) but refuse to implement a feature that only 30-50% will be able to take advantage of (player housing) because it cant be done right.  Which means that they cant add enough real estate to offer 100% of players a house.  It makes you go derp thinging of the assinine thinking like this.


    Come on bro, why would I make this up? I did a quick google search because the site search isnt working

    http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Teala/112011/22294_Why-is-Skyrim-such-a-success-and-considered-the-best-MMORPG-that-is-not-an-MMORPG

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5801

    And these arent even the many iv seen regarding making ES games into a mmo ... Read it for yourself you will see that many of the posters said the very same thing I said ... ES is better off single player because its never going to live up to its standard being an MMO

    LOL 200 hundred? only 200 people played Daoc after ToA? LOL you just sound bitter about the TESO not being the game you want it to be... relax its really not that serious

    edit* Zlylaxx - I see what your saying ... your right, I should of worded different... I said "threads" but I meant "Posts"

     


    TESO could live up to the name brand if it actually followed the NAME BRAND.  When you slap a name ontop a WoW clone it doesnt make it magically good.  If Zenimax actually designed the majority of gameplay to follow the TES model, no matter how hard it would be to implement (which I disagree BTW) then you wouldnt have this backlash.

     

    As for the 200 comment, its called Hyperbole and I have yet to see anyone who thinks ToA was a great expansion to DAoC.  Everyone I know, knows that ToA gutted the RvR scene and became the downward spiral to the game.


    Anybody that played Daoc would agree that ToA was bad... 75% of the people that left DoaC at the time of ToA went to play WoW (pure speculation). Left one equipment grind to another... I wanted a sandbox too, but I also understand making the game like skyrim online would be nearly impossible



     


    toa release 2003. wow live 2005

     
    Please know what your talking about if you are going to quote me.... from wiki 

    When DAOC first launched, the subscriber base quickly rose up to almost 250,000[16] subscribers by July, 2002 and then started to fall off to about 210,000 subscribers by January 2003[16] where "Shrouded Isles" expansion was released and populations climbed back up slightly, then in November 2003 populations once again rose to 250,000 with the release of the "Trials of Atlantis" expansion and remained at that level until October 2004 when market competition caused these numbers to gradually decrease over time

    World of Warcraft (often abbreviated as WoW) is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) by Blizzard Entertainment. It is the fourth released game set in the fantasy Warcraft universe, which was first introduced by Warcraft: Orcs & Humans in 1994.[7] World of Warcraft takes place within the Warcraft world of Azeroth, approximately four years after the events at the conclusion of Blizzard's previous Warcraft release, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.[8] Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001.[9] The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise.

    image

    image
  • ThaneUlfgarThaneUlfgar Akron, OHPosts: 283Member

    As cool as this game looks, I still haven't had any desire to stop playing Skyrim. Maybe that will change by the time this game comes out, but part of me would prefer to just stick with Elder Scrolls single player games and get my mmo fix elsewhere.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Ulfgar, that kinda the point, they don't want to make the mmo exactly like tes single player, otherwise no one would buy tes 6
  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    When they say three factions, are we talking three seperate PvE areas? Because if not, its not like DAOC, but rather, more like one of these other three faction MMOs, where the factions didnt really mean all that much.

    Does that seem like nitpicking? To me, it just seemed huge the way DAOC seperated the factions into their own lands, and played a key role in how well they clashed.

    Nowadays, devs would just say itd take way more effort than itd be worth.. yet why wasnt that the case when DAOC was made?

    Right on, People don't seem to understand the lore and setting you can craft when you do limit the game with factions , this can be a source of greater diversity in pve areas, setting, music, lore, etc.

    From the simple prespective of day 1 in the game this would have no benifit or little (you do feel that lore/setting more so than in other games). But where the value comes back staronger than ever is in, what do you do when you get bored? Simple, you roll an alt (and this can be fun but what happens after a few alts... your basiclly done, you come back to play the game with other etc. but thats it). Now in a game with 3 very different pve areas with 100% faction limited access, you switch sides. And all of their classes are new and different, their enemies are often differenet, the music the building etc. Its almost like a brand new experince in a very familar game (and you can roll alts on this server as well).

    Also games would be wise to look at how daoc did bgs, they were arguably some of the best pvp ever. ITEMS (the power and detail of crafted items in that game was amazing, the method was awful . [keep the outcome drop the npc mat click and wait fest]).  Thes ease of pvp in the game was also great (not ease of skill that was the direct opposite daoc took skill to pvp) the ease at which you bought and set up segie equipment is important... GW2 has taken a different approch you have to manage supply camps etc. to do this (daoc later did a similar thing) but in all honesty it was better just requiring people to set-up siege (the people with the castle more than likely already have the numbers, its easy for them to zerg v zerg and win, but daoc siege and cc allowed smaller numbers to win... something we have not seen in any recent mmo).

    Well enough blathering, i am happy to see dev.s finally start to understand the most basic and obvious pluses to daoc's pvp , the two front war (your fighting two other groups), now lets hope they can pick up some of the others.. (At least Anet got all walls destructable, long range anywhere seige down.. cheer).

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member

    Originally posted by Truelevel

     






    Originally posted by rottN








    Originally posted by Truelevel












    Originally posted by Zylaxx





    TESO could live up to the name brand if it actually followed the NAME BRAND.  When you slap a name ontop a WoW clone it doesnt make it magically good.  If Zenimax actually designed the majority of gameplay to follow the TES model, no matter how hard it would be to implement (which I disagree BTW) then you wouldnt have this backlash.



     



    As for the 200 comment, its called Hyperbole and I have yet to see anyone who thinks ToA was a great expansion to DAoC.  Everyone I know, knows that ToA gutted the RvR scene and became the downward spiral to the game. -
                                                               Ok , one TOA did a few things wrong,        1: artifacts where too strong (compared to SI etc. you could still pvp with orginal daoc equip and be fine, not as strong for sure, but still do alright; TOA atrifacts were so strong this was no longer true).                                                                                            2: Artifacts were too hard to get (actually getting them was easy their scrolls were often impossible).                                                                                                                  3: Gave the players what they asked for, but forgot about many players not crying because they were happy with the status quo (people WANTED TOA, raiding was the big thing people asked for; more eq like content etc. Well they got it and well it took more time than they were used to. DAOC was fast and easy, short play periods could be successful. TOA raids were crazy epic, i mean better than all vanilla wow raids, it wasn't even close ... even more so before the numerious nerfs. The content was hard and epic, and almost always offerned different experinces and mechanics).                                       TOA did little to "gutting" RvR sence, your thinking NEW FRONTEIRS






    ....
     

    Please know what your talking about if you are going to quote me.... from wiki 

     

    When DAOC first launched, the subscriber base quickly rose up to almost 250,000[16] subscribers by July, 2002 and then started to fall off to about 210,000 subscribers by January 2003[16] where "Shrouded Isles" expansion was released and populations climbed back up slightly, then in November 2003 populations once again rose to 250,000 with the release of the "Trials of Atlantis" expansion and remained at that level until October 2004 when market competition caused these numbers to gradually decrease over time

    World of Warcraft (often abbreviated as WoW) is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) by Blizzard Entertainment. It is the fourth released game set in the fantasy Warcraft universe, which was first introduced by Warcraft: Orcs & Humans in 1994.[7] World of Warcraft takes place within the Warcraft world of Azeroth, approximately four years after the events at the conclusion of Blizzard's previous Warcraft release, Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.[8] Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001.[9] The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise.

    Yep, but TBH, daoc was sheding before that, people came back to play on and off.. But i would argue that artifacts made this difficult ... artifacts might have been daoc demise.... WEll NF was bad... but worse was the NF update and removing of ladders (after this i tried daoc a few more times but pvp was just bad without ladders).

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common

    Originally posted by oubers



    Originally posted by ////oo



    So basically this is a P2P GW2 with ES lore? I can't see how this could possibly fail.

    yeah.....same thing was sayd about a wow-clone with the star wars franchise a while ago.

    Let's just wait and see what they make of it first b4 we start the hype ok??

    Impossible. The hate has started already, so the hype cannot be put on hold. They are the yin and yang of budding MMOs.

  • alexminoalexmino davenport, IAPosts: 132Member

    "Recently, Guild Wars 2 has been making massive waves with their three server warfare system,"

    Yeah, making waves.

    Can you guys, one time, pretend like you have the slightest bit of intergrity?

     

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    If they were sticking true to TES the game would have NO PVP as TES has NO PVP

    theres basicly 3 styles of PVP that other games vary upon

    EVE style (well technically UO style)- more sandboxy, fits the tone maybe best, but would scare away all teh PVE players

    DAOC style - still out in the open world, still somewhat player driven, lets PVE players avoid PVP by staying in PVE provinces

    WOW style - gamey as hell and in instances grinding for tokens

    Thank god they didnt pick the latter.

    Although acording to the panicy witch burning internet masses TESO is a WOW clone or even worse a SWTOR clone even though it has other decidedly non wowlike features like.

    open dungeons

    NO QUEST HUBS

    outdoor teritorial PVP (more so than GW2 its not got a gamey 2 week reset)

    no agro system or  tanks

    open world where you can just wander off and find stuff

     

     

     

     




     

    The Point of the PvP in TESO, IF you have watched the videos is to recreate/emulate the wars/struggles going on in the world. Since the PLAYERS are now MANY they in one sense embody the factions/NPCs that occupied the single player games. The problem I see is to many people nit picking the shit out of MMOs...and you wonder why devs are affraid of trying something new.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

     

    The dev team consists of

    1 people who left mythic before warhammer and EA involvement (i.e. the smart ones)

    2 people who left Origin due to well probably EA (the 2nd in charge guy was one of the designers on ultima online)

    3 people from iD

    4 people on loan from bethesda




     

    1. Does not help the game at all or counter what I said.

    2. See #1

    3. See #1

    4. Being stripped from one subsidiary to work at another only further proves my point.

    This game will be TES in name only...better to use something that has name recogintion than use DAoC 2 seeing as how its been dead for so long.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • KelthiusKelthius Troup, TXPosts: 298Member

    Originally posted by jtcgs

    Originally posted by ShakyMo

     

    1. Does not help the game at all or counter what I said.

    2. See #1

    3. See #1

    4. Being stripped from one subsidiary to work at another only further proves my point.

    This game will be TES in name only...better to use something that has name recogintion than use DAoC 2 seeing as how its been dead for so long.

    I agree, but they can't use the DAOC name anyway.

    image
  • ShealladhShealladh Melbourne, AKPosts: 90Member

    Originally posted by Mors.Magne

    I think 95% of MMORPGs will be WoW clones until economies improve in Europe and the US. I doubt anyone is willing to take risks and do something truly different.




     

    And this is why the world is going broke. No risk, no win imho. Step out of the norm, shudders to say it, but WoW has had it's day and boring as hell. Unless they improve Elder Scrolls for PvP this is nothing but glamour clamor.

     

    But they made a nice zoom out of the logo, YAWN

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