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Tired of easy MMOs

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  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


    I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    You pick the most overpowered, FoTM class in the game then you complain about it being too easy?

    Secondly, what are your achievements.  How many endgame dungeons have you cleared?  How many raids have you finished?  Have you maxed out your AAs?  Your gear?

    It's easy to say any game is too easy when you willfully ignore the challenging parts.

  • IIIcurrierIIIcurrier Kalispell, MTPosts: 88Member

     

    Modern = Level>Gear>Experience>

                                                            Terrain ( mostly given up! D&D rolls without checks while running, jumping or difficult terrian. )

     

     

     

    Post = Terrain/Experience>Gear>

                                                          Level (? used to be a standard difficulty 1-10, expected experience % combined with terrain advantages they take generally tips scales)

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    OP you want harder Leveling experience,, than LEARN TO IRONMAN IT!!! you can do that yourself. totally optional

    image

  • IIIcurrierIIIcurrier Kalispell, MTPosts: 88Member

    what the hell is Ironmanning?

     

    Btw you have no taste in MMORPG's. How much money do you make?

    Edit: whoops I may have mistaken you for of the many other reveiwers with heavy pockets.

  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member

    So long as people keep voting with their wallets for games that gurantee a boring but easy trip to endgame, followed by a boring but easy endgame...they are going to keep making games exactly like that.

    Somewhere along the line we went from endgame being a real accomplishment, having to think to be good at the game, and actually learning to be able to complete stuff...to having it all handed to us, no thought required just look up your rotation online macro it then go through the motions and your capped out and fully geared in x amount of time.

    A lot of the difficulty use to come from applying skill and stat point, basically correctly progressing your character for what you wanted to do.  They all do that automatically and made it so only one state is per class and you dont even have any options other than what tree or hybrid...and even that has a minimal effect overall.

    RPG use to be thinking games, mmorpgs are just action games now, built so the lowest common denominator can succeed and stay subbed.

    To compound it all, people dont want to play a game where there isnt 50 jam packed servers anymore, i dunno they dont feel populair i guess.  Players and developers are obsessed with wow, what that game did with subs, and are not willing to step outside that box, since they can make big money repackaging.  The few that do step outside of that box are so underfunded they cant even get the basics working, and end up further enforcing the idea that you need a AAA big budget themepark to be fun...eventhough people are dissapointed with every new release.  They still buy it and they keep getting more of it.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    what the hell is Ironmanning?

     

    Btw you have no taste in MMORPG's. How much money do you make?

    Edit: whoops I may have mistaken you for of the many other reveiwers with heavy pockets.

    This is Ironman Leveling

     

    totally optional, and usually available in most MMO with leveling.

    totally Hardcore, if you can handle it. Want hard gameplay? Well LEARN TO IRONMAN IT!!!

    image

  • IIIcurrierIIIcurrier Kalispell, MTPosts: 88Member

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    what the hell is Ironmanning?

     

    Btw you have no taste in MMORPG's. How much money do you make?

    Edit: whoops I may have mistaken you for of the many other reveiwers with heavy pockets.

    This is Ironman Leveling

     

    totally optional, and usually available in most MMO with leveling.

    totally Hardcore, if you can handle it. Want hard gameplay? Well LEARN TO IRONMAN IT!!!

    Just making the more difficult doesn't expand its playability. I can play mario drunk as many times as I want but it doesn't get any more interesting.

    E: just means I have to do the grind infinite lives

  • Goatgod76Goatgod76 Stow, OHPosts: 1,214Member

    Originally posted by xDayx

    The OP just needs to stop playing the easy games. Its no ones fault but his for playing the wrong type of games.

    Its like saying all shoes are uncomfortable by a person who only buys dressy shoes when theres a whole line of tennis shoes out there for him to wear.

    Agree. If  players would stop jumping at every new shiney MMO that comes out and do some research before hand...and see through that research it's the same lame, easy hamster wheel garbage as the last and not buy it.... dev's would change the forumla in attemopts to attract the crowds in another way. If people keep buying them, why would they change anything?

    Started MMORPG's in 99' with EQ...but haven't played one in almost 2 years now. Not because I have lost interest in them, but because there is just nothign in the market worth playign to me. It's all the same game in a different wrapper. I vote with my wallet....if most of the communioity would do the same...well...yeah, as I said above.

     

    Guess the same as Crunchy221 said hah!

     

     

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member

    Originally posted by Salio69

    you're going to be waiting for a long time. mmo companies are just that: companies. they care mainly for what brings in the bigger profits. the easier the game is, the more casuals can play it, the more money comes in. anything with a challange would turn away potenial customers and isnt worth doing them.

    +1

    On the long run, all MMOs tend to turn "carebear", "casual" or simply - of low difficulty.

    Its the old problem: people who play the game longtime have a huge advantage over people who just started playing recently. Thus the devs keep making the game easier and easier in order to make it possible for new players to reach power faster.

     

  • UsualSuspectUsualSuspect CardiffPosts: 1,243Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy

    I understand that they are looking to maximize their profits.  I get that and don't think that's a bad thing.  What i don't understand is how a complete lack of challenge is desirable to anyone.  Casual or not.  I'm not talking about making them hard but just a wee bit of a challange.  They might as well create a "Chutes & Ladders Online" game for all the challenge most modern MMOs provide.

    80 Million people play Farmville...

    Just sayin'.

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member

    Originally posted by UsualSuspect

    80 Million people play Farmville...

    Just sayin'.

    Waking up half an hour sooner before work just to water your plants IS hard :)

    As always, when people say something is "easy", it does not always mean that is not mechanically complex/complicated to do, in this respect combat in newer games is considerably "harder" than in old ones, but this is (in some opinion) offset far too much by other stuff, like lack of consequences and time investment.

    Flame on!

    :)

     

  • BanaghranBanaghran HuisoPosts: 869Member

    Originally posted by Adamantine

    Originally posted by Salio69

    you're going to be waiting for a long time. mmo companies are just that: companies. they care mainly for what brings in the bigger profits. the easier the game is, the more casuals can play it, the more money comes in. anything with a challange would turn away potenial customers and isnt worth doing them.

    +1

    On the long run, all MMOs tend to turn "carebear", "casual" or simply - of low difficulty.

    Its the old problem: people who play the game longtime have a huge advantage over people who just started playing recently. Thus the devs keep making the game easier and easier in order to make it possible for new players to reach power faster.

     

    This is all probably true, what i think these discussions "easy"/"hard" really are about, is "giving players things to do", if you make the game too fast and too easy/simple, even casuals will get bored very soon, for example if they get to maxlevel in 3 weeks and then all there is left for them to do are pugs, due to their casual shedule, it is bad.

    Games are even TRYING to adress that, like fluff activities in Rift, but we are still far from the past where it took casual players a year or more to reach a point where they would realize "well, i have nothing else to do than <activity XYZ>".

    Flame on!

    :)

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by xDayx

    I agree with the OP and welcome to your answer for your post.

    www.mortalonline.com After the next expansion comes out in the next couple weeks try the free trial.

    The developers dont plan to make it easy mode, players can loot anything your wearing or have on you, or kill your mount. If your naked people can see your junk. It is open-world with no maps or quests(learn your way by memorizing how the landscape looks). You will have to be wary of thieves in town and murderers outside of town. If your wearing a helm your view is slightly lessened. No insta-ports, etc.  Its not free-to-play and there is no cash-item shop. You need to eat and sleep lest you starve or run out of stamina/health, dont eat the wrong kind of food because you will puke. Skill-based so no formal classes or levels to restrict you. Nighttime is really really dark. You start the game with rags, a shortsword and pickaxe. Equipment weight and carry weight affects your movement and you could drown if you are too heavy.  There is no RvRvR or WvWvW -Ally yourself with whatever guild you want to and go to war with their enemies if you want to go the PVP/Siege route.  And last but not least the game will even grief you at times with some bugs and the haters of the game are also hardcore. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFI8aHs1Y8&feature=related

    (gameplay trailer from 2 yrs ago though, but it sums it up best imo)

    and

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a4FSjX-F60 

       (video  G(

     

    Or at least go play EVE. And I would agree with above... if you neeeeed to play a themepark, then VG.

     

     

     

     

     

    I might have to try Mortal Online.  I passed it over due to it's poor reviews.  I tried EVE and it held no interest for me.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by biggarfoot

    I've said this before in another thread discussing difficulty, I think they could impliment different servers with a different difficulty curve for those that prefer a challenge and let the casual crowds have their cake. I'm sure it wouldnt be to difficult to do.

    That's not a bad idea but I tend to be casual and I don't think most casual players are looking for a cake walk.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by maplestone

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


     


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    What would it take to make to convince you to take on an arbitrary handicap?  I mean, there are loads of ways of making a game harder on yourself by setting challenge (eg: non-magical gear only).   What's holding you back from taking on one of these challenge styles?  A lack of formal achievements/recognition for doing it?  Fear that other players will refuse to play with someone who isn't min-maxing?   An inability to feel accomplishment from something that *could* have been done more easily?


    Despite your attempt to be provocative I will answer you.


     


    What you are suggesting is basically what you do in a single player RPG when choosing a difficulty level.  An MMORPG is meant to be played with and against other people so by artificially handicapping yourself you take yourself out of the group dynamic so what’s the point?  Might as well play the single player game (which I am doing).  The rewards of getting better gear should hold some difficulty and be balanced with the level increase and level of the zone you are playing.  Out leveling a zone quickly and not being able to follow the storyline quests just ruin the game. 

     

     

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


    I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    You pick the most overpowered, FoTM class in the game then you complain about it being too easy?

    Secondly, what are your achievements.  How many endgame dungeons have you cleared?  How many raids have you finished?  Have you maxed out your AAs?  Your gear?

    It's easy to say any game is too easy when you willfully ignore the challenging parts.

    The challaging parts?  I haven't even got to the end game yet and my shadownight was only an example.  I have other character classes as well.  The core of the game is questing.  No challange, no fun, no reason to continue on so I can play the endgame.  I'm not only picking on EQ2.  Other MMOs suffer from the same issue although EQ2 takes it to farther than most.  I can only walk around following the story and looking at the scenary for so long.  If I just wanted story with no challenge then I'll read a book.

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by IIIcurrier

    what the hell is Ironmanning?

     

    Btw you have no taste in MMORPG's. How much money do you make?

    Edit: whoops I may have mistaken you for of the many other reveiwers with heavy pockets.

    This is Ironman Leveling

     

    totally optional, and usually available in most MMO with leveling.

    totally Hardcore, if you can handle it. Want hard gameplay? Well LEARN TO IRONMAN IT!!!

    Just making the more difficult doesn't expand its playability. I can play mario drunk as many times as I want but it doesn't get any more interesting.

    E: just means I have to do the grind infinite lives

    LOL.  Playing drunk.  I should try that.

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


    I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    You killed an easy critter and complain about it being too easy?  I'm an 8 year vet of EQ2.  THe game has NEVER been more difficult than it is now. 

     

    The last expansion for EQ2 was the first expansion in the history of the game (it's had like 8 expacs) that was not cleared by ANYONE worldwide before the level cap was raised.  And despite the level cap raise, it STILL has not been cleared.  

     

    The game is designed to have plenty of easy, medium and difficult content in order to appeal to different players and to allow new players to easily jump in and work their way up to difficult content.  It sounds to me like you tried some of the easiest and quit.  If you want a challenge, I dare you to kill anything worthwhile in the game.

     

    Also, fyi - as you may not have known this -  you say you were killing monsters 5-6 levels up.  With the level cap at 92, all chellenging encounters are currently level 100. (The game is designed to be killing higher rather than even-level stuff.)   Additionally, the difficulty in EQ2 is not indicated only by the level but by another attribute, regardless of level monsters can come in Solo, Heroic, Epic X2, Epic X3 and Epic X4.  

     

    And while the greatest challenges are in 24-person encounters, one needn't even look that far.  There are some EXTREMELY challenging encounters for single-groups as well.   The idea is that you need to work your way up to them.  You clearly are a skilled player, so you expected a greater challenge right away and didn't get it, which is unfortunate because there is tons and tons of challenge out there.  

     

    The game is also 8 years old, so most of the really challenging stuff is now at level cap, since earlier stuff wasn't designed to be done with new gear and all the AA points new characters now get.

     

    p.s.   Just noticed your reply.. the "core" of EQ2 is not questing.  There is tons of questing for those that enjoy, but the true core of the game is group and raid dungeons.  This is where the majority of the challenge is.  Questing at this point is just a repetitive grind to get certain items and to level up (although most veterans don't level by questing anymore).  The questing WAS challenging 7 years ago when the game launched.  Since then, it has been revamped to be easy and quick in order to let new people get to the real content at cap.    It depends on what you want, if you want challenge, questing is not where it's at.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
    Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


    I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    I think they are nerfing the starting area champions , but GW2 has champiosn (aka elite mobs) that pretty much 1 shot everything with aoes while shootong like 8 of them out at a time. Super fun... you die alot in the game its hard but people rez you and your like donkey-middle-of-dougnut just killed me. And you jump back in for some more (and die agian).

    Its pretty fun so far... but it was easier, they made it harder, and i have fears that they will make it easier agian, appeal to the masses (at day oen , when they just started, and don't make them think) . Pretty sure everyone here knows the harder the better but i feel dev.s don't becuase they have to worry about the masses .. at lvl 1 who don't wanna read their abilities.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy




    Despite your attempt to be provocative I will answer you.


     


    What you are suggesting is basically what you do in a single player RPG when choosing a difficulty level.  An MMORPG is meant to be played with and against other people so by artificially handicapping yourself you take yourself out of the group dynamic so what’s the point?  Might as well play the single player game (which I am doing).  The rewards of getting better gear should hold some difficulty and be balanced with the level increase and level of the zone you are playing.  Out leveling a zone quickly and not being able to follow the storyline quests just ruin the game. 

     

    If I provoke, it is only to create a crusible in which the ideas can be melted down and explored.  Thank you for answering.

    So you are saying that you are judging yourself by other players?  That you cannot enjoy being handicapped if the rest of the players playing around you are not equally handicapped?

    Are you at least playing the zones that are a level or two higher than your character?  Or do you feel the story breadcrumbs keep leading you back to lower-level content than where you feel you are having the most fun?

  • ShmackpappyShmackpappy Grand Island, NYPosts: 75Member

    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by Shmackpappy


    I tend to be more casual than not when it comes to gaming so I don’t require I huge amount of difficulty but, come on, there should be at least a bit of challenge to the game to make it interesting.  Most recently I played Rift to the level cap and while I did enjoy the game it was way too easy to get there.  Not seeing anything that interested me that was out I took a step back and went back to EQ2.  Talk about easy!  My shadow knight was easily able to take on monsters that were 5 or 6 levels above.  To die I had to be mobbed by several of these critters.  It was usually quite easy to run away still.  I quit MMOs entirely for the moment and am now playing a single player RPG (Dragon Age: Origins) and enjoying it thoroughly.  I will wait for the new crop of MMOs to come out and see what they have to offer. 


     


    Just a request to the developers out there.  Please add a little bit of a challenge to these games.  Just a wee bit.   Without a challenge it’s just not fun. 

    You killed an easy critter and complain about it being too easy?  I'm an 8 year vet of EQ2.  THe game has NEVER been more difficult than it is now. 

     

    The last expansion for EQ2 was the first expansion in the history of the game (it's had like 8 expacs) that was not cleared by ANYONE worldwide before the level cap was raised.  And despite the level cap raise, it STILL has not been cleared.  

     

    The game is designed to have plenty of easy, medium and difficult content in order to appeal to different players and to allow new players to easily jump in and work their way up to difficult content.  It sounds to me like you tried some of the easiest and quit.  If you want a challenge, I dare you to kill anything worthwhile in the game.

     

    Also, fyi - as you may not have known this -  you say you were killing monsters 5-6 levels up.  With the level cap at 92, all chellenging encounters are currently level 100. (The game is designed to be killing higher rather than even-level stuff.)   Additionally, the difficulty in EQ2 is not indicated only by the level but by another attribute, regardless of level monsters can come in Solo, Heroic, Epic X2, Epic X3 and Epic X4.  

     

    And while the greatest challenges are in 24-person encounters, one needn't even look that far.  There are some EXTREMELY challenging encounters for single-groups as well.   The idea is that you need to work your way up to them.  You clearly are a skilled player, so you expected a greater challenge right away and didn't get it, which is unfortunate because there is tons and tons of challenge out there.  

     

    The game is also 8 years old, so most of the really challenging stuff is now at level cap, since earlier stuff wasn't designed to be done with new gear and all the AA points new characters now get.

     

    p.s.   Just noticed your reply.. the "core" of EQ2 is not questing.  There is tons of questing for those that enjoy, but the true core of the game is group and raid dungeons.  This is where the majority of the challenge is.  Questing at this point is just a repetitive grind to get certain items and to level up (although most veterans don't level by questing anymore).  The questing WAS challenging 7 years ago when the game launched.  Since then, it has been revamped to be easy and quick in order to let new people get to the real content at cap.    It depends on what you want, if you want challenge, questing is not where it's at.

    So, all the game play is at the end game?  I should waste my time for months until I get to the level cap and then it will be fun?  Why would I ever do that.  That makes the game even more pointless.  And, btw, I played for a few months before I finally gave up. 

  • TwistingfateTwistingfate warren, MAPosts: 177Member

    Just my two cents but I found Guildwars 2 pretty difficult. i really liked how easily the mobs could rip you end from end if you messed with the wrong ones or if you werent paying attention. Its was only the first beta weekend but it seems like it will be a hard game. 

     

    EVE online is pretty difficult as well, as a 3 year veteran Im still learning new things.

     

    Best wishes

    Saint

    image

  • Angier2758Angier2758 Mt. Prospect, ILPosts: 1,011Member

    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    You should check out Vanguard once it goes F2P. It isn't as forgiving and there a many opportunities for a challenge solo or as a small group. It is doubtful that we will see much challenging content in new MMOs.

    I found it painfully easy.. honestly the game was more tedious than difficult.

    It's very forgiving... my shadowknight (if that's what it was called) could fight group mobs solo.... (and I use plural if you understand the mechanics.. many is easier than 1).

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member

    I don't disagree with you, problem is the standard class/level system we have.  There isn't enough mini milestones to go around to keep it feeling like a asian grind fest.  Plus the only skill base games that have released recently are ffa pvp, which are a niche market or very looooooow budget.

  • tuzalovtuzalov waterloo, ONPosts: 183Member


    Tired of easy MMOs

     

    Why can't we have both,RO was/is a mmo that caters to the hardcore and casual player.

    RO was huge why? Because it was accesible to both styles of play. - And please don't say RO sucked,the game is almost 15 years old,most likely older then the people replying to this and it still rox.

     

    When we were asked to test WoW  I was floored by this game "WoW"  as I was a Lineage tester/player for almost 4 years at this point just blew me away and alot of us felt this way we had alot of hopes for it as we were sick of the Korean XP GRINDDDDDD...

    It's just gotten so lazy.The only game I can think of is Fallen Earth that has tried to bridge the gap,I can't say whether they have or not,but I am happy they are trying.

    MMO's from my baseline comparison of Meridian 59 Lineage 1 Dragon Raja and others have just been cookie cuttered out .

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