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Level = Generation ??

rcubanorcubano Gainesville, FLMember Posts: 68

The vid I'm referring to (specifcally at 5:25): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQvGZlt39dU

 

In an interview I just watched (link above), an executive for WoD Online is asked about leveling, and how the system will work.  He doesn't answer it directly, but he immediately went into "Generation", highly implying that Generation has something to do with a character's "level".

... Is anyone else bothered by this? ...  I sure am.  I don't think Generation should have anything to do with a character's "level".

 

I won't write a long dissertation on the matter, but I can this: If they're using Generation as an equivalent to "level", then Generation is going to be extremely different from how it was in the pen-and-paper RPG.

Comments

  • UberAnakhUberAnakh KocaeliMember Posts: 5

    Originally posted by rcubano

     I don't think Generation should have anything to do with a character's "level". I won't write a long dissertation on the matter, but I can this: If they're using Generation as an equivalent to "level", then Generation is going to be extremely different from how it was in the pen-and-paper RPG.

    The Ultima Online has not got the ordinary "level" either but t'is a pretty good game. 

    Please stop comparing all games to crappy wow and it's clones.

    To me, WoW is not a success at all.

  • rcubanorcubano Gainesville, FLMember Posts: 68

    Originally posted by UberAnaka

    The Ultima Online has not got the ordinary "level" either but t'is a pretty good game. 
    Please stop comparing all games to crappy wow and it's clones.

    You misunderstand my post.  I'm not attacking the lack of having "levels" (in fact, I support having a system of progression that doesn't have levels).  I'm attacking the concept of using a vampire's Generation as a level or overall assessment of power-progression.

  • BeyornBeyorn Member Posts: 258 Uncommon

    Originally posted by rcubano


    Originally posted by UberAnaka

    The Ultima Online has not got the ordinary "level" either but t'is a pretty good game. 
    Please stop comparing all games to crappy wow and it's clones.

    You misunderstand my post.  I'm not attacking the lack of having "levels" (in fact, I support having a system of progression that doesn't have levels).  I'm attacking the concept of using a vampire's Generation as a level or overall assessment of power-progression.

    I happen to agree with you Rcubano but I think that may be a sacrifce they have to make for the online setting. 

    Generation in the pen & paper game was how far removed the vampire was from Cain (how powerful they were).  Since we will all be starting as fledglings (as far as I know anyway) we would be the 12-14 generation and I think the only way to increase in power was thru age or feeding on another older vampire.  So I dont see how else they could do it unless they had us "born" in the 4 or 5 generation and had different eras (gated content for level/skill ranges) for us to progress through but that adds another problem.   At end game there will be a WHOLE lot of very old vampires running around which wouldnt be how the pen & paper game was at all.

    Honestly there are going to be problems no matter how they do it, to my mind anyway.

  • rcubanorcubano Gainesville, FLMember Posts: 68

    Originally posted by Beyorn

    Honestly there are going to be problems no matter how they do it, to my mind anyway.

    Ain't that the truth! Haha.  And I think CCP will do well, but I'm a big fan of Vampire: The Maquerade pen-and-paper, so I'll have my little pet-peeves here and there.  Doesn't mean I won't love the online game, I'll just grumble about changes then move along. Lol.

    As far as Generation, you're correct that it's how far removed from Caine you are.  However, the age of the vampire has nothing to do with it.  If a 5th Generation vampire embraced someone right now, that offspring would be 6th Generation (and incredibly powerful Generation rating to have), but would still only be 1 night old, and therefore weak.  A 10th Generation vampire that's 300 years old (and never diablerized) was 10th Generation when created; the age has made him/her more powerful (better skills, Disciplines, etc), but does not affect the Generation whatsoever.  Only Diablerizing affects Generation.

    In pen-and-paper, you could use Background dots during character-creation to increase your Generation to whatever you wanted it to be (i.e. what Generation you were when created) to maximum of 8th Generation.  This never changed once you began to play unless you diablerized, which is a very big deal as it's outlawed among the Camarilla.

  • BeyornBeyorn Member Posts: 258 Uncommon

    It has been an extremly long time since I played.  I thought you had to start young ;).  So maybe something like that will be in the game then.

  • NibsNibs .Member Posts: 242 Uncommon

    It's been a very long since I played Vampire but:

    Box standard, not spent any points on it, vamp is 13th gen (?).

    You can spend points at character creation to reduce that.

    You can commit diablerie to further lower your generation.

    So, 13th gen vamp has a max level of X.

    Each gen closer to 3rd increases your max level by, say, 5.

    Due to the difficulties of getting that low (it would involve perma death of a lower gen vamp) not many people would get there.

    Due to how many people (and other things) would be after you in order to reduce their own generation not many people would want to get too low. You may as well put a bleeping huge target on your back.

    To be a prince of a city you need backup - financial, political and physical. This is helped by reducing your gen. These things also help in reducing your gen in the first place. A wondeful cycle. You need strong backup to get to a really low gen and once you do you're always looking over your shoulder in case said backup decides you're suddenly a really easy root to power.

    It could work, gen being tied to level, if they think about it well enough...

  • UberAnakhUberAnakh KocaeliMember Posts: 5

    Originally posted by Beyorn
    At end game there will be a WHOLE lot of very old vampires running around which wouldnt be how the pen & paper game was at all.
     

    If they add perma-death* that wouldnt be a problem at all, in my opinion. If pll manage to live, they deserve to be old and powerful, no?

     


    Originally posted by rcubano


    Originally posted by UberAnaka

    The Ultima Online has not got the ordinary "level" either but t'is a pretty good game. 
    Please stop comparing all games to crappy wow and it's clones.

    You misunderstand my post.  I'm not attacking the lack of having "levels" (in fact, I support having a system of progression that doesn't have levels).  I'm attacking the concept of using a vampire's Generation as a level or overall assessment of power-progression.

    I apologise then :>

    To me, WoW is not a success at all.

  • rcubanorcubano Gainesville, FLMember Posts: 68

    Originally posted by UberAnakh 
    I apologise then :>

    No worries, mate.  I knew you just misunderstood my post.  I tend to ramble too much, so sometimes meaning gets buried.  That, and for people who haven't played the pen-and-paper (or it's been a long time for them) then the concept of Generation might be skewed.

    I adore the Generation concept.  I adore the vampire mythology involving Caine and biblical mythology instead of a virus.  I think Vampire: the Masquerade is brilliant.  As such, I think the MMO will be great.

    From what little I've seen, I think this MMO will be very different from everything else.  I truly believe it'll be based on politics and power-plays, with "go kill X of Y" quests to be very limited, and not the basis of the game (the way it is for so many other MMOs).  I also hope they stick to the power-progression model of the pen-and-paper game, which did not use levels.  You spend experience points on raising specific skills, instead of levels adding to things on their own.  I think this would be fairly easy to translate to an online game, though I don't know how they'll do it regarding experience rewards for politicking.

  • SonshouSonshou Detroit, MIMember Posts: 18 Uncommon

    I don't know if you have watched this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch2vB1ZatPI

    That's from the presentation at EVE FanFest 2012 where they talked about WoD.

    They explained Generation would be part of the game but won't be a replacement for Levels.

    And on that video you posted if you watch it again, when Chris is asked about Levels, he just explains the lore in WoD where Generation is a way to differentiate your Vampire from others but he didn't say that would be a system of leveling. Being the Diablerie would be part of the game, then that would be a way to change your Generation, I think.

  • rcubanorcubano Gainesville, FLMember Posts: 68

    Originally posted by Sonshou

    I don't know if you have watched this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch2vB1ZatPI
    They explained Generation would be part of the game but won't be a replacement for Levels.

    Very cool!  Definitely makes me feel better, thanks!

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