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EA Blames Casuals For Declining Subs



  • TardcoreTardcore MinskPosts: 2,325Member

    Well Bioware, all I can say is it is sad to see your once spoltless legacy sodomized by these brain damaged monkeys. Dark days indeed.



    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by lizardbones


    Originally posted by Mishakai

    Odd, most of the hardcore players I know are giving TERA a spin while waiting for GW2 to see how it pans out..

    If only hardcore players are playing TOR, howcome PVP queue times have doubled, if not more, since 1.2???

    What a load of garbage.

    Even their podcase is nothing but a bunch of self gratifying butt smacking.  All you hear is a couple BW guys telling each other how good a job they did, while completely ignoring the pletora of community concerns post 1.2 that has cost them ~400k subs.

    I don't think those words mean what you think they mean. :-) Or, more accurately, you are using the words differently than the guy giving the speech in the article.

    Casual = someone who isn't going to spend too long in any one game, regardless of how many hours they play it per day. They are short term players or game jumpers. I am one of those people...there's not much a game is going to do to keep me playing it for more than 3 months at a time, especially since I generally play games one game at a time.


    Casual can also mean someone who doesnt have long play sessions, or the weekend warrior type in a single game.

    I am one of those casuals.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • BarCrowBarCrow Tampa, FLPosts: 2,192Member Uncommon




  • ShedrenShedren Owosso, MIPosts: 3Member

    The game offered nothing new or fascinating besides lightsabers and there quest dialoge system. Which got pretty boring and annoying after 30 levels of the game for a lot of gamers. I would also point out that it was very linear in progression nothing like a sandbox at all.  Which is why I left personally.



  • ace5572ace5572 Perrysburg, OHPosts: 113Member

    EA is like a giant kid. Pointing fingers and blaming anything but themselves.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    It's kinda comical now. They blame the customers they still have for the decline and their current customers keep making excuses for them, even taking up for BW for being inexperienced. Check out the post below. Kinda hard to feel sorry for the customers when they're like this.

    "I've been hearing constant complaints about Bioware and the game itself. I'm not going to lie here; I've made some of these complaints myself. Once I gave myself time to think it over, however, I realized that there's no point in being irritated. You people need to know that this is Bioware's -FIRST MMO-. They're still learning how to do it. It takes time to learn how to make sufficient patches on the first try, or to polish the game to a certain degree. As store-shelf game designers, Bioware is used to being able to fix a mistake a long while after's it's made because they notice during the development and testing process. In a video game, you have at least a couple of months of testing. In a mmo, they're rushing to put the patch out(Here, I'm not talking about the actual game, just the patch. Bioware had several months of BETA to test it). Until Bioware learns some of these skills needed to run an MMO, we will notice some issues.

    On top of inexperience, Bioware is also having issues with both EA and the Mass Effect 3 ending. EA has rushed them to complete both TOR and Mass Effect 3 on time in order to compete with other titles as is what happens when you have another company calling the shots for you. When it comes to Customer support, most of the issues people have are there simply because they've never played an MMO before. I've seen people complaining about selling something they needed and not getting a warning. That's simply how an MMO is. On top of that, TOR gets THOSANDS of help requests every day. If your ticket isn't addressed immediately, or is addressed inadequately, -BE PATIENT-. Continue asking for assistance if they failed to help you and you will get your answer eventually.

    For those of you whom can't even log into the game due to crashes, I don't blame you for unsubscribing.....But if you do, and actually like the game, check back in with it eventually. Chances are, they will have fixed it.

    Now then, before you say that I'm a Bioware/EA fanboy, please note that I have only ever played one Bioware game which was the original KOTOR and I preferred KOTOR II to that. When it comes to EA, I have two games by them that I don't really pay much mind. "


    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 841Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Tayah

    It's kinda comical now. They blame the customers they still have for the decline and their current customers keep making excuses for them, even taking up for BW for being inexperienced. Check out the post below. Kinda hard to feel sorry for the customers when they're like this.

    LOL LOL LOL...this kind of post OMG how many times have I read it in many is new players alright ;)

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    I dont think they should make an mmo just to hit hardcore fans of a tittle cause if they do it will for sure fail...

    u can use a known tille such as star wars or TES but it does not mean that anything u do will be a success just because have its name... the game must own its public with quality

    thats what i think...


  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,165Member Uncommon

    Now LET'S PLAY HUTBALL!!!!!!

  • Saxx0nSaxx0n PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd. Hell, CAPosts: 956Member Uncommon
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 3,973Member Rare

    As far as profitability goes EA didn't really say much this time - although they said 'stable' and 'profitable'.

    For the contectyou need you go back to the February results and presentations etc.

    At that point EA said that they would / will break even on 500k subs; a year earlier they talked about 'substantially profitable' at 500k but it overran etc. (EA said it released late). However currently on a day-to-day basis it is profitable.

    The investment has to be recouped however for the product to be profitable and for that - regardless of what it cost - EA said that they would not have made the investment if they did not expect 1M subs for the long term; analyst interpretation suggests 1M subs for up to 2 years. i.e. 500k a month more than break even for 2 years; or 1 million above breakeven for 1 year; 2 million for 6 months etc. It will also depend on advertising etc.  like free months!

    At that point they make a bottomline profit.

    An analogy: you buy an apartment and let it out. The rent covers your repair bills, taxes and so forth. On an on-going basis you are profitable. However if the house falls down before the on-going profit has paid back the bank you are stuffed. That is the difference between the two.

  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member Uncommon

    I almost feel sorry for someone saying something that stupid. Then I remember EA is evil and all my sympathy vanishes.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,912Member Uncommon

    Lol. Advanced Propagandizing indeed. Blaming casual is epic. Hey, why not blame climate change? Or El Kaeada. Or the Freemasons??

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff New York, NYPosts: 654Member

    Blaming their own customers for their failure to do their jobs.



  • AdiarisAdiaris RomePosts: 381Member

    I've said it before, I'll say it again. EA's PR/comms director needs to whip his spokespeople or leave, this is just embarassing. 

    (takes notes for his "Bad PR blog section)

  • oubersoubers bazelPosts: 854Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fansede

    Originally posted by RebelScum99

    They made a game that appealed to casuals.  Now they blame them for the game's declining subs.   Makes sense.  Thumbs up, EA!

    My thoughts exactly - you wanted to compete with WoW. Did you expect differently? 



  • daydreamerxxdaydreamerxx Saint Cloud, FLPosts: 178Member Uncommon

    I was a avid supporter of SWTOR. I played the betas , I played at launch. 

    Mind you I feel stupid for buying the collectors edition and thanks to SWTOR I will never buy another CE of a game ever again.


    I decided to level a Juggernaut. I still stick by that Juggernaut's are extremely underpowered in pvp and still somewhat in pve. The unique story lasts many 30 hours of the actual time you play the game. One play through pretty much kills the game from there. I have no want to level an alt because there is no replay value of questing. If you could level from start to finish just on class quests then the game would be well worth playing still.


    I also get bored with raiding and instancing very quickly because of how fast my guild blows through game content. So I might go back at eveyr major patch for a month but unless they release new raids every month I doubt I will be a constant subscriber to SWTOR. 


    It comes down to no replay value for me. Plus the class balance is the worse ive seen in any game, and I have played over 100 mmorpgs.  Right now I have an active SWTOR Sub, but that is changing when the month ends. I also have a Tera Sub, and I have guild wars 2 preordered and secret world preordered. Tera is pretty bland to. Tries to be something and claims to be it, but its an illusion. Its the same kill 100 of this and move on mmo that Im tired of. 


    Then Guild Wars 2 is pretty much great all around aside from its retarded zone overflow. Id rather have a scifi game using the features and systems of GW2 but aw well. 

    Then there is Secret World. The only reason I am interested in it is because of the setting of the game. Modern day supernautral blah blah blah. And the fact that it has no levels so it makes character building a lot of fun. 

    Point is SWTOR is nothing new anymore and has no replay value. I am a hardcore gamer but because of how.... well shitty swtor is, I am a casual swtor-er. I will continue to be that until they do something amazing to keep me interested. Might even just trash the game entirely when GW2 comes out.


  • PurutzilPurutzil Posts: 3,048Member Uncommon

    Better to lose casuals then hardcore players I guess is their reasoning behind blaming casuals... then again I can't see why you EVER want to go out blaming people for your game's failure. Might as well exile yourself further from the playerbase.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,135Member Uncommon


    I can't tell if EA is just this monumentally stupid, or if they just have no competent PR people to work with. Rule #1, when it comes to ANY business that sells a product:

    You never blame the customers.

    Furthermore, using your target demographic as an excuse as to why your product isn't selling as well, just makes yourself look incompetent. It doesn't make you or your product look any better.

    Some of the quotes I saw also bother me. While I've never been a big supporter of TOR, I really don't like EA as a company. There's a reason they were voted worste in america, and it's not entirely because of ME3.

    While they don't come out and say it directly (good luck getting anyone from EA to do that), they seem to definitely be insinuating that TOR was their cash grab, and they are unhappy with it's performance. It's sounding like there is a strong possibility that they are going to start shifting focus away from TOR next year, in favor of more profitable ventures. Which is odd, because there's also talk of expansions, so we'll see what happens with that.

    Either way, EA would be much better off actually learning from their errors, rather than blaming others.

  • synnsynn killeen, TXPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Bardus

    Originally posted by lizardbones

    They've lost 400,000 of 1,700,000 people. They are still well above the profit line for the game. They're also doing much better than most games six months out from launch.

    I get the dislike or even hatred of the game...I don't get the idea that they've somehow failed. They are probably rolling in more money that any of us will even see in our lifetimes, much less get to spend. They didn't just win, they bought the arena and painted it in their colors.

    /facepalm One more time for people that think because they say it , it must be true.

    EA is counting free month give-a-ways, trials, and people that paid for multi month subs but stopped logging in long ago as part of that 1.3 million.

    Anyone thinking their servers look desolate now just wait until the free time is over. You’ll actually hear some of the ambient life that we thought wasn’t added in. Crickets lots and lots of crickets.

     okay not to sound like a fan boy but does anyone have a link of them saying that trials are being counted? free months is understandable since they had to have an active subscription by the 20 something of April to get the free month. Oh and just fyi...I stopped logging in a while ago myself but still got my free month of game time left.

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member Uncommon

    I love that he blames the only group of people who could possibly save his game. I guess he is counting on the casuals being so casual they did not hear about what he said.

    Well, that seals the deal. This casual is going to go cancel his sub right now...of course, I was going to anyway. This is just the motivation I needed to get off my ass.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,636Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by fansede

    Originally posted by RebelScum99

    They made a game that appealed to casuals.  Now they blame them for the game's declining subs.   Makes sense.  Thumbs up, EA!

    My thoughts exactly - you wanted to compete with WoW. Did you expect differently? 

    You'd think someone would have figured that out by now. They've only had what, 6 or 7 years, and how many other examples to go on?

    Watching company after company try to cop what Blizzard did with WoW, failing and then watching the stream of denials and excuses flow out has become like watching an ongoing train of lemmings running themselves off a cliff.

    I really think that the people calling the shots on how these games are made are not gamers themselves, have never played a MMORPG - especially including World of Warcraft, the one whose coat-tails they're trying to ride. They only know to try and copy what WoW does or, perhaps how WoW does it. But they don't understand why it works. I think if some of these people spent the time playing MMOs themselves, really dug into and played one they'd maybe get a better feel for not only the "what" and "how", but they'd perhaps begin to understand the "why" as well.

    And it's not just the MMO genre. It's all genres where there's one or two big-hitters, with a bunch of smaller "me-too's" trying to grab some of the success. Look at Action-Adventure games. With a couple exceptions that most people don't even kow ever existed, Zelda has been a huge franchise for years, a continuing success. There have been many other action-adventure games out there that were largely inspired by Zelda and tried to mimic its formula. They didn't come close. Why? Because while they copied the "what" and "how", they didn't understand the "why" of what makes a Zelda game what it is.

    Think of any genre of gaming where there's one or two behemoths dominating it, with a bunch of much smaller clones just trying to get a piece of the action with "me-too" knock-offs. You'll see the same thing every time.

    The people controlling the money are also calling the shots. They're also the ones who, it seems, are the least qualified to do so. Worse, they seem to have their heads shoved so far into their "market research" numbers of what the "data" says everyone wants, that they repeatedly fail to realize that their data doesn't tell the whole story. And so they just keep running themselves, like lemmings, off that same cliff.

    When one of these people finally "gets it", and they start to think in terms of "how can we make a great game that a lot of people will want to play" instead of "how can we make a game that will give us the maximum return on our investment" - when they make "creating a fun and engaging game" their primary goal instead of "making as much money as possible", then maybe we'll start to see better offerings.

  • TyratopsTyratops LondonPosts: 98Member

    You people are completely over exaggerating on what he said, it's not like he's spitefully blaming anyone and if anything he has a point, obviously it isn't the full reason for declining subscriptions.

    Get over your hate.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones


    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

     Their box sales have not exceeded their expectations overall. Initial sales obviously did. Believe it even broke records did it not? Since that time it has dropped off dramatically. They did incredibly well initially. Anyones saying different is simply being ignorant. The question is now though....

    Sales are dropping off. The subs are going down. Over a million at this point but on the same token they lost over 24% of their player base within the last quarter. Is this going to continue or is this where it levels off? Really a big question for this game considering their investment and where things go from here.

    ...and this is all happening before some games come on the market that could very easily bite into the same market SWTOR is fighting for.

    Box sales or digital sales doesn't matter. The game sold a lot more than they expected. More than anyone expected.

    Of course sales are dropping off and subs are going down. There does not exist a game released since WoW where this hasn't happened. A rational person would look at every single game that's released since WoW, watched the pattern and then realized they have a finite period of time to make money off of a game. This pattern hasn't changed and there's no reason to think SWToR will be any different.

    I say the fact that they can wipe their butts with money means they've succeeded. The fact that most games by the 6 month mark have 50% or less of their initial subscriptions means they've succeeded. They didn't make the game I wanted (I wanted the story to remain the focus of the game, but they wandered), but that doesn't mean they've failed or that any doom and gloom prediction is anything other than wishful thinking.


    Exactly how much money have they made, after development, marketing costs and upkeep has been factored in?  And they haven't reached the six month mark yet.  The way subs are trending, they may well be a 50% or less by then, if free subscription time has been removed from the calculations.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    You dont have to be qualified to make choices.

    This summs it perfectly.

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