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SWTOR subs dip from 1.7 Million to 1.3

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  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,763Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by iceman00

    Except if you look at the way EA's stock has plummetted, especially since the release of TOR, I don't think you'd be calling it a "healthy profit."

    And actually, you really don't understand what people don't like.  We don't like the fact that Bioware made essentially a WoW clone, that much is true.

    What he is talking about is investor risk/reward.  In other words, maximizing the investors profit margins, not anyone else's.  And the question becomes:  what's the payoff for investing in a game that is bleeding subs pretty fast, and the devs really don't seem to have a clue with how to fix it.  (1.2 only confirmed this.)  That isn't an "arbitrary definition."  It is the classic mechanic behind all decisions to invest money.

    You are confusing "risk" in the sense of innovating in the game world, to risk in investing and maximizing profits.  While in some cases they are similiar, this case proves right here they are not so.

    You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,763Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by iceman00

    Yeah wasn't sure what to make of that.  WoT is basically just an honordueling skirmish game, and LoL is a dueling skirmish game without the honor on any of the players.  But, it does offer some pretty compelling gameplay for those who like that sorta thing.  Yet certainly isn't an MMO, or a persistent world game for that matter.

    Not sure I'd call WoT "honordueling" (wtf does that even mean?).

    It's a fantastic game completely marred by premium ammo being pay2win.  If it was only paying for lateral playstyle unlocks like LoL, it'd be great (and I would've not only given them money, but probably given them a lot of money like I did with LoL.)  As it stands, there's no honor in it at all. :P

    But that strays offtopic.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • AegisSagaAegisSaga Miami, FLPosts: 33Member

    I usually don't like to see games sink, specially games that I know many people enjoy, but a small part of me is smiling. I guess like many others, I just got dissapointed that the game didn't appeal to the veteran MMO players who have had enough of WoW gameplay for the past 7 years and wanted something new.

     

    On another note, because of this same reason I'm really worried about TESO. If the Star Wars franchise wasn't enough to save a new "WoW clone" big budget, subscription MMO; then the Elder Scrolls franchise can't possibly do it either. They really need to make their game different or it'll sink just the same. 

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

    You act like the companies own report did not list the cost of ToR as the reason for the companies poor results.

    And you can try to spin that all you want, it was spoken about by EAs own CEO during the conference call and listed as the reason by the people that rated their stock.

    The stock industry states you are wrong, thus you ARE wrong no matter how much you personally like the game.

    Your personal opinion does not change what the stock market or the company spending report states is fact.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

     It certainly isn't the only reason but it has played a significant factor. Don't believe it? Just do a search. Here's the title and sub headline from just one article written in the LA Times:


    EA's good earnings eclipsed by loss of Star Wars game subscribers


    Electronic Arts shares plunge 10% in after-hours trading on news that the number of Star Wars: The Old Republic subscribers has fallen.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-ea-earns-20120508,0,7656059.story

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ebonizedebonized Toronto, ONPosts: 58Member

    Originally posted by Monorosso

    Originally posted by kartool

    I guess all the people who said it would be f2p after 6 months better update their hyperbole.

    More like eradicate this incredibly dumb prediction altogether. Game is not going F2P for a very long time, if ever, at this rate.

    LOL! 25% of the entire playerbase in 2 months isn't fast enough for you?

  • ebonizedebonized Toronto, ONPosts: 58Member

    Originally posted by Fratman

    Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.

    The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 

    Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.

    exactly. seems pretty damn obvious to most people, but from what I've seen of the SWTOR dev team, they're nearly braindead and absolutely clueless. watching 'update' videos with James Ohlson (sp?) and Gabe Antemelago (sp? lol) is literally cringe worthy - they sound like they have no idea what they're talking about, have never played an MMO let alone their own game, and are reading from some PR cue cards

  • ebonizedebonized Toronto, ONPosts: 58Member

    Originally posted by kcypher2000

    Originally posted by Fratman

    Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.

    The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 

    Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.

    And here comes the doom sayers.  Havent you guys also been preaching that WoW will die for like 7 or 8 years now?  

    Here is the real kicker, people whine about the end game content being like WoW, then they whine that the end game content does not have a dungeon finder so they can play this end game content exactly like WoW and if it lacked any of these features they would whine that the game is missing something WoW has.

    You can't win.  Then again thats only the loud minority of whiners on gaming forums who also hate any Call of Duty or Halo game just because they too are popular. 

    It's called being realistic, as opposed to putting on those rose-coloured glasses and pretending losing 25% of your playerbase in 2 months is a good thing. Everything Fratman said is spot on, and if you can't realize that, then you're deluded.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by ebonized

    Originally posted by kcypher2000

    Originally posted by Fratman

    Bioware/EA basically spent 200 million dollars to barely hold the spot for 2nd best mmo for a few months until GW2 comes out. Ouch.
    The worst part will actually be 2-3 years from now when games like Titan and WOD completely put the nail in the coffin of themepark grinders like SWTOR. 
    Has there ever been a game developed with less foresight and respect for its playerbase? Bioware actually thought people were going to spend the next 5 years or more grinding out purples in their WoW clone. It boggles the mind that no one on their development team spoke up and pointed out what a bad idea it would be to release a game like this in 2011.
    And here comes the doom sayers.  Havent you guys also been preaching that WoW will die for like 7 or 8 years now?  
    Here is the real kicker, people whine about the end game content being like WoW, then they whine that the end game content does not have a dungeon finder so they can play this end game content exactly like WoW and if it lacked any of these features they would whine that the game is missing something WoW has.
    You can't win.  Then again thats only the loud minority of whiners on gaming forums who also hate any Call of Duty or Halo game just because they too are popular. 


    It's called being realistic, as opposed to putting on those rose-coloured glasses and pretending losing 25% of your playerbase in 2 months is a good thing. Everything Fratman said is spot on, and if you can't realize that, then you're deluded.



    It's better than every game since WoW losing at least half their player base or more at the 3 month mark. Being realistic should include not expecting 'success' to equal WoW's behavior. A reasonable expectation is a big release, followed by a drop in sales and subscriptions over time. There will be a period of stability where subs coming in match the subs going out, finally followed by a long sunset where the game tries several different methods to gain new subs (like free to play, trials to level 20, etc.) ending at long last in the game shutting down. Over the lifetime of the game there might be a couple of times when the subs jump up again - releasing in other regions would be a big reason, with expansions causing much smaller increases in subs.

    The days of a game running like gang-busters for years are done. WoW was an aberration and it won't repeat. I thought SWToR was a good game, but there's no reason to think they've changed the landscape...it's an MMO and it will go the way of all the other MMO's before it (except WoW of course). It'll just make more money than the others (except WoW of course).

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,763Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jtcgs

    The stock industry states you are wrong, thus you ARE wrong no matter how much you personally like the game.

    Thanks, I needed some humor to start my morning. (:

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by AtmaDarkwolf

    I wonder, if u don't like the game, why are you spending so much energy 'reporting' how it fails.

     

    Most people know SWTOR has failed. They made a great single player game and tried to crowbar it into a mmo, bad idea, being bioware, chances are they won't learn, but OTHER companies wil(I Freaking hope, lookin at you TESO and zenimax/bethesda)

     

    So why waste the energy. Let it die and feel that pride swell in your chest, but to come to forums and plant the 'Imatroll' flag on your immaginary hill.

     

    Go hype in the games u like, or help people, just don't get why people waste so much energy on this.

     

    (Don't get me wrong, I can understand people who LIKE something and watch it get destryoed complaining, voicing concerns, etc, but to not 'be intrested' in a product and keep declaring how much it fails while never having actually PAID for, or WANT to pay for the product? It makes no sense.)

    There could be a variety of reasons, but in the end, they like making you butthurt enough to post complaining about people who complain.  Their impact on whether TOR succeeds or fails is zero, so why should anyone care what people say about the internet?

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member

    Originally posted by Axehilt

    Originally posted by iceman00

    Except if you look at the way EA's stock has plummetted, especially since the release of TOR, I don't think you'd be calling it a "healthy profit."

    And actually, you really don't understand what people don't like.  We don't like the fact that Bioware made essentially a WoW clone, that much is true.

    What he is talking about is investor risk/reward.  In other words, maximizing the investors profit margins, not anyone else's.  And the question becomes:  what's the payoff for investing in a game that is bleeding subs pretty fast, and the devs really don't seem to have a clue with how to fix it.  (1.2 only confirmed this.)  That isn't an "arbitrary definition."  It is the classic mechanic behind all decisions to invest money.

    You are confusing "risk" in the sense of innovating in the game world, to risk in investing and maximizing profits.  While in some cases they are similiar, this case proves right here they are not so.

    You act like EA's stock was purely driven by ToR, which clearly isn't true.

    Of course not.  It was also impacted by ME3 pulling in less than anticipated, a slowing console market (slow economy + people simply becoming bored with the limited tech of the consoles), alongside the mother of all bad PR years.  From DA2 to TOR, EA has been the pinata in the press.  Still, they spent more on this game than several of these other games combined.  When it fails, that's going to leave a mark.

  • khartman2005khartman2005 Bluffton, INPosts: 477Member

    Originally posted by Blackwater56

    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Every MMO seem to drop subs after the first months though. GW2 will do it, Tera will do it, the only MMO I didn't see it happen with was WoW, they kept having to add servers. But then there's only one Blizzard.

    Guild Wars 2.

    Drop in Subs.

     

    HAH you a funny guy!

    GW2 will not be very sucessful. I was in the beta and the game is pure crap and I was hoping it would be great as I loved the Guild Wars series of games.

    image

  • endgame1endgame1 Chapel Hill, NCPosts: 84Member

    EA's CEO John Riccitiello on CNBC last night discussing the investor blow back after the quarterly report release.

     

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47341927

  • BereKinBereKin SplitPosts: 287Member

    Nothing unexpected about this news. It was just matter of time when this would happened. SWOTOR was highly expected to come out by many, and in the end we all got knocked of are feet  how bad it turn out to be. When you know that dev for this mmo was Bioware who has long past of successes and quality, this is a big let down and it does not do any favor to Star Wars setting. But that is what happens when people become gready and corporate suits (EA) take over. And there reaction and press release on this news, that those almost half milion subs are just weekend players?!  LOL, so funny.

     

     

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,763Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by endgame1

    EA's CEO John Riccitiello on CNBC last night discussing the investor blow back after the quarterly report release.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47341927

    Obviously he's trying to upsell and defend his stock, but his point about investors being clueless is exactly why I laughed at the guy who said "The stock industry states you are wrong, thus you ARE wrong."

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • SubilacSubilac Homestead, FLPosts: 18Member

    I skipped this game totally. I knew it was going to be another WoW/Rift clone and I was right. I went back to EQ on FtP and am now a subscriber once again since 2004. If someone would make a game like the original EQ with updated graphics, etc., it would be gold. I have been grinding the same level for 7 days now and haven't dinged, and love it! In Rift/Wow I can get to the cap in 7 hours (exaggerating). I do hope this game has success though, but it's not for me. Everquest Next, I'm praying, is the MMO savior.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon

    Why I'm having difficulty enjoying SW:TOR these days:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T--BMk6qgk

  • ShadoedShadoed BirminghamPosts: 1,499Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     

    It's better than every game since WoW losing at least half their player base or more at the 3 month mark. Being realistic should include not expecting 'success' to equal WoW's behavior. A reasonable expectation is a big release, followed by a drop in sales and subscriptions over time. There will be a period of stability where subs coming in match the subs going out, finally followed by a long sunset where the game tries several different methods to gain new subs (like free to play, trials to level 20, etc.) ending at long last in the game shutting down. Over the lifetime of the game there might be a couple of times when the subs jump up again - releasing in other regions would be a big reason, with expansions causing much smaller increases in subs.



    The days of a game running like gang-busters for years are done. WoW was an aberration and it won't repeat. I thought SWToR was a good game, but there's no reason to think they've changed the landscape...it's an MMO and it will go the way of all the other MMO's before it (except WoW of course). It'll just make more money than the others (except WoW of course).

     

    The problem is that it isn't about the player or onlookers expectations, it is about what EA expect the game to do and past experience would dictate that they will be formulating (if they haven't already) an exit plan from this game in case it continues not to hit or exceed their expectations. This is all purely speculation as i don't know what they have in mind, but EA aren't a publisher well known for their respect towards players.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Bushi13Bushi13 mokkelPosts: 123Member

    Originally posted by endgame1

    EA's CEO John Riccitiello on CNBC last night discussing the investor blow back after the quarterly report release.

     

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47341927

    Lol, ok LOL, the guy says (EA CEO) Star wars the old republic is not on our top priority, not in the top 5 but in the top 10, but it's a solid succes.

    I can't believe the crap coming out of his month... hahahah, just suck it boy !!

    Pls investor just don't EA.

    Diablow 3, it sucks ...

  • dooneydooney MandurahPosts: 69Member

    another shitty wow clone with shitty theme park features and tab target, obvious this game was going to fail, its a piece of shit.

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member

    in this thread, idiots calling other people retards for enjoying a game....

     

    this site is quite amusing in a way. Granted TOR is not going to overtake wow as the best mmo ever ( i personally hate wow) but to belittle other's for enjoying a game, is comical at best.

    image

  • dooneydooney MandurahPosts: 69Member

    Originally posted by miagisan

    in this thread, idiots calling other people retards for enjoying a game....

     

    this site is quite amusing in a way. Granted TOR is not going to overtake wow as the best mmo ever ( i personally hate wow) but to belittle other's for enjoying a game, is comical at best.

    if you enjoy wow themepark tab target clones then power to ya

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member

    Originally posted by dooney

    Originally posted by miagisan

    in this thread, idiots calling other people retards for enjoying a game....

     

    this site is quite amusing in a way. Granted TOR is not going to overtake wow as the best mmo ever ( i personally hate wow) but to belittle other's for enjoying a game, is comical at best.

    if you enjoy wow themepark tab target clones then power to ya

    see signature.

    and i enjoy all styles of gameplay....just because you dont like it, doesnt make you seperior too anyone else.

    image

  • dooneydooney MandurahPosts: 69Member

    Originally posted by miagisan

    Originally posted by dooney


    Originally posted by miagisan

    in this thread, idiots calling other people retards for enjoying a game....

     

    this site is quite amusing in a way. Granted TOR is not going to overtake wow as the best mmo ever ( i personally hate wow) but to belittle other's for enjoying a game, is comical at best.

    if you enjoy wow themepark tab target clones then power to ya

    see signature.

    and i enjoy all styles of gameplay....just because you dont like it, doesnt make you seperior too anyone else.

    i never said i was superior to anyone, if you enjoy these types of clones then good for you. i dont get why you people get all excited about the next mmorpg thats just another themepark clone. you'll probably buy elder scrolls online and they have already said its going to be a wow clone.

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