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SWTOR subs dip from 1.7 Million to 1.3

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  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Blackwater56


    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Blackwater56


    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

     

    Personally, 1.3 million as of March 31 is still pretty good

    Uh, no. Not when you sold 2.3 million copies total

     

    So SWTOR lost 1 million subs AND STILL hasn't merged server.

     

    That's all that can be said about the business mantality of EA. 

    And yes, the free month was included. The report was from the end of April

    What 1.3 million isn't a decent sub base? What?

    THEY LOST

    ONE MILLION

    SUBSCRIBERS

     

    In 5 months.

    WoW, with 13 million subs, lost 1 million IN ONE YEAR

     

    SWTOR has taken a MASSIVE hit.

    Massive hit sure, but that's the norm, people could say that about just about every MMO since 05. But 1.3 mil is something many sub based games wish they had, many never even reach a million in sales.

    All MMOs lose a portion of their playerbase, sure. However, losing almost half your player base in the first 5 months time is not a very good sign of a strong game. It's especially not for one which was being hailed as THE game-changer before it even launched. This included the developers, the media, and the fans. Everyone was spiking the TOR hype-aid, and couldn't drink enough of it.  

    People who expressed doubt were called haters or trolls. They were told they didn't know what they were talking about; that they were in denial. Otherwise somewhat reserved media folks were reduced to slobbering fanboys and girls over it. The staff on this site alone were lining up to heap praise on it in column after column. 

    It was BioWare, and Star Wars, and Voice Acting and focused on story! How could it not be an unstoppable force in the genre! It would be a game changer! People would never be able to play another MMO again! Blizzard were positively shaking in their boots at how they were about to inevitably lose millions of their players! Yes, I saw these such claims, and others, made time and again in the months leading up to the game's launch. It was impossible to avoid for a time, even if you tried to.

    Let's also think back to how many people insisted 1.7 million subs was what they had. People were using that number as proof positive that the game hadn't lost players. Those who looked beyond the PR and expressed doubt were bashed, trashed and called trolls around here and elsewhere.

    Yet, here we are now with new numbers and they have, indeed, lost another large chunk of their playerbase. So now people have suddenly and conveniently forgotten all the "No! Bioware says they have 1.7 players and so that's how many they have!" business, and are focused on making 1.3 sound like that's the number and they can't possibly still be losing more. Are we really going to repeat the same thing all over again?

    Are people that slow to learn? Or are they just that desperate to cling to the idea that the game they knew would be an unstoppable beast is actually a much smaller and less impressive creature, with a footprint that's shrinking considerably only 5 months into its release?

    At the very least, I'd expect this to be a lesson on why it's not a good idea to get caught up in, or contribute to such hype. Why it's a bad idea to make bold declarations with an arrogance such as what was displayed by those in the TOR community, about a game that few even had a chance to play yet. Though, based on the hype around GW2 now, apparently it hasn't.

     

  • Dahkot72Dahkot72 Pelham, ALPosts: 261Member

    Would like a SWTOR fanboy to spin/defend Daniel Ericson blatantly lying a few weeks ago about server pops were down because of less hours logged but not less subs as they still had the same number of subs ?

    Please , I am sure one of them can spin it , go for it.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Dahkot72

    Would like a SWTOR fanboy to spin/defend Daniel Ericson blatantly lying a few weeks ago about server pops were down because of less hours logged but not less subs as they still had the same number of subs ?

    Please , I am sure one of them can spin it , go for it.

    They won't. They've now swiftly moved on to the "well, all MMOs lose players after launch..." argument. I'd be surprised if you could even get many of them to acknowledge the whole "1.7 million players, because BioWare says so!" thing ever happened.

    People like that never acknowledge being wrong, they just commit it to the "things I must forget ever happened" portion of their brain, and find something new to be "right" about.

  • jacklojacklo BlackpoolPosts: 570Member

    Originally posted by kcypher2000

    Originally posted by jacklo


    Originally posted by spaceport

    Didn't EA said that they needed 1m subs for a year to break even?

    It was actually 500k subs over 12 months to break even.

    They also said 1 million over 12 months would be a good profit but nothing to write home about, the investors would not be happy!

     

    You know nothing about business so stop trying.  If the break even point is 500K then double that amount is definitely good news because its nearly all profit from that point on.  Lets not forget that WoW did not start at 12 million subs but built up to that.

    Way i look at it is that SWTOR has all the bases covered for an mmo with a story that none of them can compare too.  Soon they will have dungeon finder too.

    I actually run my own business but that's beside the point.

    Those quotes are from EA themselves you donkey.

     


    John Riccitiello - Electronic Arts Inc. - CEO


    That was me that made the comment a number of different times. What I basically said is 0.5 million subs, we could break even at the margin.


    1 million subs would be meaningfully profitable, but nothing to write home about. It certainly would not make us feel good about the investments to date. It would simply be a good business on an ongoing basis.


     


     

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Massive hit sure, but that's the norm, people could say that about just about every MMO since 05. But 1.3 mil is something many sub based games wish they had, many never even reach a million in sales.

    way too early to claim 1.3m as a "steady" source of subs that other mmos would love to have

     

    Age of Conan and Warhammer launched strong and lost subs soon thereafter

    SWTOR is doing better than both of those past mmos but it remains to be seen if the sub numbers are still falling

     

    will know better at the 6 month mark  --- and not just the 1st quarter

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1855246619x0x566984/c10f605c-3487-488e-ad86-b5bb74fe2408/Q4_FY12_Script.pdf

    "Star Wars: The Old Republic now has 1.3 million subscribers, with a much higher mix of

    ongoing credit card consumers, but on a lower absolute number of subs.
    "

     

    "Let me provide you with an update on Star Wars:

    Through the end of the quarter, approximately 2.4 million units have sold through. In our last

    call we indicated that we had 1.7 million active subscribers, and as of the end of April we now

    have 1.3 million, with a substantial portion of the decrease due to casual and trial players

    cycling out of the subscriber base, driving up the overall percentage of paying subscribers.

    We have already launched a number of initiatives designed to grow subscriptions.
    The initial

    responses have been positive and we are encouraged by the gaming community’s reaction."

     

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    I seem to recall the game going FTP at this point. It's hard to keep up with their inconsistencies when they move the goal posts every quarter.

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    That's funny. About the only number I remember seeing hammered again and again at 80% was the people saying the game had an 80% retention rate from the days many a magical number was pulled from poster's asses in relation to this game.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    Almost as funny as 3m subs and still GROWING!

    Why dont you present both sides so you wont be categorized as taking one side yourself.

    oh, nevermind.

  • jacklojacklo BlackpoolPosts: 570Member

    Originally posted by Tayah

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1855246619x0x566984/c10f605c-3487-488e-ad86-b5bb74fe2408/Q4_FY12_Script.pdf

    "Star Wars: The Old Republic now has 1.3 million subscribers, with a much higher mix of

    ongoing credit card consumers, but on a lower absolute number of subs.
    "

     

    "Let me provide you with an update on Star Wars:

    Through the end of the quarter, approximately 2.4 million units have sold through. In our last

    call we indicated that we had 1.7 million active subscribers, and as of the end of April we now

    have 1.3 million, with a substantial portion of the decrease due to casual and trial players

    cycling out of the subscriber base, driving up the overall percentage of paying subscribers.

    We have already launched a number of initiatives designed to grow subscriptions.
    The initial

    responses have been positive and we are encouraged by the gaming community’s reaction."

     

    Considering they sold 2.4 million units and now have 1.3 million "active subscribers", they lost 48% of players in 4 months.

    The wording is very clever but it does draw a distinction between "active subscribers" and "paying subscribers", which suggests that not all of the current 1.3 million subs are actually paying.

    To say they are "encouraged by the gaming community's reaction" shows how out of touch they are.

    I don't think they could have been any more ambiguous with their report.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    That's funny. About the only number I remember seeing hammered again and again at 80% was the people saying the game had an 80% retention rate from the days many a magical number was pulled from poster's asses in relation to this game.

    I would remember such claims if they were common, because I would have agreed with them.  My opinion has always been that it would have about the same retention rate as Rift, on a larger scale.  Growth from launch is not something I'd see from any MMO, as WoW has always been an exception and not a rule, and Eve started with few subs and has grown gradually, like any well groomed alternative.

  • OldMMOGamerOldMMOGamer Evans, COPosts: 100Member

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    I seem to recall the game going FTP at this point. It's hard to keep up with their inconsistencies when they move the goal posts every quarter.

    This  ^^^....It was after the free 30 days was up, It was after the first content update, 2 months it would be f2p, subs would drop off the charts, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

    The hate is from wow kids, GW2 forum patrol, over hyped kids, armchair developers, you name it there have said it.  1.3 million aint so bad at all.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    I believe 1.3 as much as I believed 1.7. 

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    That's funny. About the only number I remember seeing hammered again and again at 80% was the people saying the game had an 80% retention rate from the days many a magical number was pulled from poster's asses in relation to this game.

    I would remember such claims if they were common, because I would have agreed with them.  My opinion has always been that it would have about the same retention rate as Rift, on a larger scale.  Growth from launch is not something I'd see from any MMO, as WoW has always been an exception and not a rule, and Eve started with few subs and has grown gradually, like any well groomed alternative.

    Selective memory much?

    Both were equally common.

    Rift had what, 20/25% retention. Not really good.


    Originally posted by Zekiah

    I believe 1.3 as much as I believed 1.7.

    Pretty much noone does. While "technically" they arent lying because they gave everyone free active sub, though free=/paying and we all know MMOs dont run on air, especially 200+m ones :)

  • OldMMOGamerOldMMOGamer Evans, COPosts: 100Member

    Originally posted by Zekiah

    I believe 1.3 as much as I believed 1.7. 

     

    Just hold your hands to you ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA LA"

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 884Member Uncommon

    From another site: "In a conference call this afternoon, EA said the decrease was indeed due to "casual and trial players" cycling out of the game."

    See? Cycling. That means they'll all be back!

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mikahr

    Originally posted by Robsolf


    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    That's funny. About the only number I remember seeing hammered again and again at 80% was the people saying the game had an 80% retention rate from the days many a magical number was pulled from poster's asses in relation to this game.

    I would remember such claims if they were common, because I would have agreed with them.  My opinion has always been that it would have about the same retention rate as Rift, on a larger scale.  Growth from launch is not something I'd see from any MMO, as WoW has always been an exception and not a rule, and Eve started with few subs and has grown gradually, like any well groomed alternative.

    Selective memory much?

    Both were equally common.

    Rift had what, 20/25% retention. Not really good.

    What's your point?  Whether it was common or not, my statement in no way claimed that a person predicting 80% retention was a hater.  It's like you're arguing just to argue.

    Rift does NOT have 20-25% retention.  That is ABSURD and in no way based on reality.

  • fadisfadis funkg, GAPosts: 469Member

    As of 4/30...

    * We know the game has sold 2.4 million copies.

    * We know there are 1.3 million "active subscribers."

    * We can safely guess that something like 75k of those are on the free 30-days.

    * We also know there is an unknown amount of "active subscribers" that are part of the various trial offers and have not purchased the game, yet.

     

     

     

     

     

  • AkaisAkais Memphis, TNPosts: 274Member Common

    Originally posted by jacklo

    Originally posted by Tayah

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1855246619x0x566984/c10f605c-3487-488e-ad86-b5bb74fe2408/Q4_FY12_Script.pdf

    "Star Wars: The Old Republic now has 1.3 million subscribers, with a much higher mix of

    ongoing credit card consumers, but on a lower absolute number of subs.
    "

     

    "Let me provide you with an update on Star Wars:

    Through the end of the quarter, approximately 2.4 million units have sold through. In our last

    call we indicated that we had 1.7 million active subscribers, and as of the end of April we now

    have 1.3 million, with a substantial portion of the decrease due to casual and trial players

    cycling out of the subscriber base, driving up the overall percentage of paying subscribers.

    We have already launched a number of initiatives designed to grow subscriptions.
    The initial

    responses have been positive and we are encouraged by the gaming community’s reaction."

     

    Considering they sold 2.4 million units and now have 1.3 million "active subscribers", they lost 48% of players in 4 months.

    The wording is very clever but it does draw a distinction between "active subscribers" and "paying subscribers", which suggests that not all of the current 1.3 million subs are actually paying.

    To say they are "encouraged by the gaming community's reaction" shows how out of touch they are.

    I don't think they could have been any more ambiguous with their report.



    1.3M is a healthy number and I'd imagine hype played a huge part im making their launch the size it was.

     It's not a bad game, but it's missing a very needed 'something'. They can continue to add stuff to the game, but it won't change the lack of that missing ingredient IMO.

  • PrecusorPrecusor PalmaPosts: 4,733Member Uncommon

    deleted.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    my statement in no way claimed that a person predicting 80% retention was a hater.  It's like you're arguing just to argue.


    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    Right.

    carry on, nothing to see here

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by Wickedjelly

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    That's funny. About the only number I remember seeing hammered again and again at 80% was the people saying the game had an 80% retention rate from the days many a magical number was pulled from poster's asses in relation to this game.

    I would remember such claims if they were common, because I would have agreed with them.  My opinion has always been that it would have about the same retention rate as Rift, on a larger scale.  Growth from launch is not something I'd see from any MMO, as WoW has always been an exception and not a rule, and Eve started with few subs and has grown gradually, like any well groomed alternative.

     You must be joking. You can remember the haters but not the others? It was common as hell to the point it became a running joke around here by other posters like me when they touted it because their logic for it made no sense whatsoever.

    Rather selective memory you got there.

    ...and what do you mean you would have agreed? Are you nuts? 80% retention is unheard of in this market. Think about what 80% retention actually means. You're treating it like new players never come into play. That isn't how it works.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Grand Rapids, MIPosts: 4,249Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mikahr

    Originally posted by Robsolf



    my statement in no way claimed that a person predicting 80% retention was a hater.  It's like you're arguing just to argue.


    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    Right.

    carry on, nothing to see here

    Are you incapable of understanding the difference between 80% retention and an 80% drop in subs?  Seriously?

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by mikahr


    Originally posted by Robsolf



    my statement in no way claimed that a person predicting 80% retention was a hater.  It's like you're arguing just to argue.


    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Not exactly the 80% drop the haters were predicting...

    Oh well.  They have Tera, and soon will have GW2 and Secret World to bet against, now.

    Right.

    carry on, nothing to see here

    Are you incapable of understanding the difference between 80% retention and an 80% drop in subs?  Seriously?

    Just pointing out your silly points.

    Oh, and just to mention, even people who said 80% retention were "haters" lol

    But of course, your selective memory selected not to memorize this

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