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Originally posted by borkenvideo So we find out new tidbits today about the Diablo 3 Auction House and fee structure. Two interesting new facts get released to us. 1. The max you can sell any item for is $250.00 More stupidness, if your account goes over $250.00 battle funds, you have to cash it out if you want to do more transactions.. Thus, forcing you to pay fee's and get tracked, and whatnot, and mostly not be able to play any sort of Foriegn Exchange games. 2. 100,000,000,000 gold is the most you can sell at a time. I guess this means that 100,000,000,000 gold = $250 right now... Kinda sad. More problems, 15% to sell it, and 15% to cash it out.. Means, I think most people will be dealing outside this RMAH system that is suppose to stop people from going outside and getting scammed.. Great job Blizzard, you say one thing and do another...Sorry no way can I justify 15% cash out... I'm a bit peev'd at these announcements today... Nothing this system does is for us, its all been a sham. The only winners here is Blizzard. Because they will force it outside and probably ban and clean up outside forces to keep the economy in check for their internal gains.... So much for the player... Last minute bs explained to cover their asses, trying to sneak it by us lol.
Who cares you or me or anyone else who is a normal player isn't gonna make a dime to begin with give it a week or 2 and the asians will be in a pricing war with each other and selling stuff for 2 cents
Originally posted by TGSOL You make a good point about this potentially failing to kill the illegal third-party market; why sell at the AH when you have to pay Blizzard twice if you can sell it outside the RMH and get 100% of the profit? Your average user will not likely go this route, but then this system was (supposedly) never designed to deter the "average user" from selling wares illegally; it was meant to deter actual farmers, and it is those very people who are most likely to look at this system and say "why sell it in the RMH when we can just do things like we've always done and earn 100% of the profit?"
How exactly do you plan to sell third party? You can't do it alone, well you can try ebay if you want and hope your listing doesn't get banned. You can try other sites and hope you don't get scammed. The costs are almost the same and you deal with getting scammed.. the choice is obvious for a single person. The only way anyone could do this illegally at any benefit is in a large group, who will eventually get banned several times.
Also buyers will buy from the RMAH, why? because they won't get scammed.
Either way why is this an argument? It is against the ToS.
Originally posted by borkenvideo Originally posted by Emeraq 30% is 30 cents on the dollar. Take a 10 dollar sale as an example, with a listing fee of one dollar and the 30% on a 10 dollar sale you are still turning a profit of 6 dollars, which for you is what? 600% profit? The item you sold cost you zero. (NO you can't count what you paid for the box as cost, as it's a game you are playing, you'd probably play it without the RMT) Here's the math, they get one dollar for the listing, and 30% of $10 is 3.00. $10-$4= 6.00 You are making money for something that you don't own, something that isn't real, something that doesn't exist anywhere but in a video game.... Can we cry anymore over hobby time money?
You're not understanding the point of the Diablo 3 RMAH has always been promoted as to stop the outside exchange, the scamming, the fraud, etc. This percentage is not going to help stop that, in fact at these rates, I think a billion asians are estatic that they will soon be in business.
I will not be buying gold or items, this means nothing to me, but I can clearly use common sense to know that any kid and his money will be buying 150,000 gold for $10 instead of 135,000 gold for $17.55 on the Blizzard system..
Are the prices on gold and items fixed by Blizzard? It was my understanding that we can list items at whatever price we want... So if a gold farmer sells 150,000 gold for 10, undercut it and sell the same amount for 9. Yeah, you the seller, aren't making 10, you aren't even making 9, but the point is you ARE making something. Something > 0
Originally posted by Aori Originally posted by TGSOL You make a good point about this potentially failing to kill the illegal third-party market; why sell at the AH when you have to pay Blizzard twice if you can sell it outside the RMH and get 100% of the profit? Your average user will not likely go this route, but then this system was (supposedly) never designed to deter the "average user" from selling wares illegally; it was meant to deter actual farmers, and it is those very people who are most likely to look at this system and say "why sell it in the RMH when we can just do things like we've always done and earn 100% of the profit?"
This. Blizzard's RMAH will work even with the high fees because the buyer doesn't want to be scammed. Will people still buy from other place sure, but most people will buy from the AH. Just like most people will buy a console from gamestop or best buy and not out of some guy's truck in an empty parking lot.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Originally posted by dubyahite @killsmall I'm not going to buy from gold farmer sites ever. Period. So yeah it doesn't matter what people are selling for. Yeah my math was off, but so is yours. A another poster pointed out it not 30%, it's 27.75. The point of my post was about passing the transaction fee on to the buyer. I doubt you will be able to pass the withdrawal fee on them too. If you read my post you would know that. The point is that the buyer should eat the transaction fee. If sellers are smart the market will allow for this. And of course this doesn't apply to items such as weapons and armor as those are a flat $1 fee. Either way, it doesn't really matter. We are talking about getting paid for virtual items in a damn video game. If I can make a few extra bucks doing something I do for entertainment then it doesn't matter if they take a cut. It's a freaking game. Get over it.
Why do you assume we are against the Auction House?
(tinfoil)I starting to believe everyone who brings up this point to get over the fact Blizzard is taking their cut is a Blizzard Corporate troll who was expecting this... (/tinfoil)
Originally posted by Emeraq Originally posted by borkenvideo Originally posted by Emeraq 30% is 30 cents on the dollar. Take a 10 dollar sale as an example, with a listing fee of one dollar and the 30% on a 10 dollar sale you are still turning a profit of 6 dollars, which for you is what? 600% profit? The item you sold cost you zero. (NO you can't count what you paid for the box as cost, as it's a game you are playing, you'd probably play it without the RMT) Here's the math, they get one dollar for the listing, and 30% of $10 is 3.00. $10-$4= 6.00 You are making money for something that you don't own, something that isn't real, something that doesn't exist anywhere but in a video game.... Can we cry anymore over hobby time money?
Oh so you want to debate? Heres some real world stuff for ya..
Economics... If 35% of all gold is sold OFFLINE in 3rd Party market, thats 35% sales less on the RMAH, which means DECREASED PRICED INCOME FOR YOU as sellers have to DROP prices to compete against the offline sellers who are offering LOTS MORE for LOTS LESS... This creates deflation, and it makes buyers cautious and also teaches them against impulse sales, as they speculate and shop before buying... Bottom line.. it costs you... probably in the amount of 15% once your price drops that low...it wont matter as much...
If Blizzard drops the price 10%, that brings back 35% outside sales down to about 10%, makes it harder to sell outside because you have security, and then they make even more because of the LOST DEFLATION
Thats economics... Learn it.. love it.. Charging 30% is going to blow up in their face...
Originally posted by Drakxii This. Blizzard's RMAH will work even with the high fees because the buyer doesn't want to be scammed. Will people still buy from other place sure, but most people will buy from the AH. Just like most people will buy a console from gamestop or best buy and not out of some guy's truck in an empty parking lot.
Heres the thing that none of you are considering.
You are all acting as if these 3rd party sites are 100% shady. If they were so shady then how have they made so much profit? They have no reason to steal your credit card information because then you will not go back to them. They have every reason to be just as good as Blizzard.
Also these "shady" websites are already established. I don' t know of any because I don't buy in game items but I do know people that have, and they bought a lot of stuff and never got banned nor scammed. The in game Item selling market is already there. Its already establish. Its already safe for those that use it often.
Tell me are those that already buy gold/items from 3rd party sites going to spend extra money on something they know they can get from a 3rd party site for cheaper?
Blizzard is going to have a hard time forcing people to go through their avenue of selling items vrses someone elses. Thier EULA does not protect them from most laws in court. Espeically because its forced to accept.
Originally posted by onlinenow25 Originally posted by Drakxii This. Blizzard's RMAH will work even with the high fees because the buyer doesn't want to be scammed. Will people still buy from other place sure, but most people will buy from the AH. Just like most people will buy a console from gamestop or best buy and not out of some guy's truck in an empty parking lot.
For a buyer they can risk going 3rd party, yes even from established websites you can get burned. You will eventually get banned and even more so now more than ever. It is illegal and you will get banned, don't think you won't.
As for the selling 3rd party, you can't just join D2buyer.com and expect to sell shit at no cost if at all. Any website that does something illegal is shady, don't try and legitimize an illegal operation.
You can not profit off a company using that companys resources without their consent. If you don't like the rules don't play the game.
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Originally posted by squalleonah in this business case, i can only see 1 winner . however RMAH is good idea, why dont we creating a community web with the trade function the same
its called d2jsp
Originally posted by Johaboha Originally posted by gilgamesh42 so wait i have to pay them 15% just to sell something and have it go to my account and another 15% to take it out ? -__- mofos think we asian slaves
Asian slaves? You ever have a job??? In america you pay taxes on every single dollar you make, prolly right around 15% depending on how much you make ( i donno exactly how much not a tax expert...) and then you pay taxes on every single item you buy (legally.)
point being look at how your own country operates before spouting your uneducated racial slurs
MOre like 25-40% in the us.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by insanejosh Some people really need to learn how to read. Most people are going to be selling and buying Equipment on the RMAH. The only time you are being hit with 30% is on Commodities. The only Commodities I really see selling on the RMAH is Gems. Also, what the hell is with all the QQ? You are selling items, maybe you need maybe you dont, that just cost you time playing a game you enjoy and you get to make a little cash. Hell its a win win situation. If you don't understand why they get this percent or why they charge this amount, you need to go take some business courses and learn that not everything is free. For Equipment (weapons, armor, accessories, and other unique items) Transaction Fee (Gold Auction House): 15% of final sale price Transaction Fee (Real-Money Auction House): $1.00 USD per item / $1.00 AUD per item Transfer Fee (when sending proceeds to PayPal or other authorized payment-service provider): 15% of amount being transferred For Commodities (gems, materials, dyes, pages, recipes, and other non-unique items) Transaction Fee (Gold Auction House): 15% of final sale price Transaction Fee (Real-Money Auction House): 15% of final sale price Transfer Fee (when sending proceeds to PayPal or other authorized payment-service provider): 15% of amount being transferred
I must be the only one that reads this as 15% fee due to the auction house transaction, and a 15% fee if you decide to cashout.
Originally posted by dubyahite @borkenvideo "Why do you assume we are against the Auction House?" I didn't say that, not once. I was simply showing you that sellers should pass the costs off to buyers and that it should be expected that Blizzard would monetize the ah. As far as being a shill, according to this site I work for Bioware/EA, Blizzard, High-res, SOE, and probably Zenimax soon for not absolutely freaking out about TESO Can't disagree with the hate parade around here without being called a shill.
Oh its common? Maybe you should realize your possibly just not so bright and should spend more time listening to people with common sense instead of telling others how wrong they are and back that statement up with meaningless nonsense that contradicts the point or is not at all related to it? Just saying...
Here's some food for you.
1. I WANT Blizzard to make a profit and keep the game running long time.
2. I WANT the auction house to be successful, and EVERYONE to use it, whether to make money to pay cell phone bill, or trade their nice weapon of no use for one that they can use... Or even play WALL STREET and make a mint speculating currency exchance rates, buying and reselling etc...
3. I WANT the player base to have an amazing time.
Now you all mostly make me out to be some kind of monster when the fact is, I can see something clearly wrong, that won't help the situation at all, and if Blizzard had any truth to their statements they are making a big mistake, or possibly they have been lieing to keep the fact down they want long term revenue and this was the goal behind it... Either way... its wrong and I will tell you why..
Because... By inflating the cost too high, creates the 3rd party market, the lower they make their costs, the harder it becomes for the 3rd party market to succeed.... The more profit there, the more they can invest and hang... This is long term hurtfull... Gives them a good boost at the start.. This will in fact COST BLIZZARD TO LOSE MORE MONEY.. dont you see that?
If you sell 9000 turkeys at 50 cents, thats $4500, blizzard makes $1350
If 35% of 9000 turkeys sold outside that means, 3150 turkey sales were lost, $2925, blizzard makes only $877.5
But its even less than that, because turkeys will NOT SELL at 50 cents, more like 40 cents due to deflation... $2350, blizzards cut $702
Amazing, by Blizzard CHARGING MORE, they create the 3rd party market they stood to destroy, and lose 50% proceeds in the process of doing so...
Of course maybe we should see who owns these sites that sell the gold, such as PLAYERAUCTIONS.com?? Did not IGN own this site?
Originally posted by dubyahite So, about the 15% thing. If you want to make $10 from an item for some reason, post it for $11.50. Boom. Another problem solved with basic math. The 15% on an item transaction is absorbed by the buyer. The 15% on the withdrawal is absorbed by the seller. It's simple. In a cash shop there is no seller. The company makes all the money. This way Blizzard is ensuring that they can make money off their "cash shop" and they want to make money off the sellers as well. Either way, if you are a seller, it's not likethey are charging you money out of your pocket. You are making money off a freaking video game for crying out loud. It's 100% profit for you. First world freaking problems much? Also your assumption that the gold cap = the real money cap is just silly. You have nothing to base that on and it's going to be completely incorrect.
11.5*0.85=9,775. So much for basic math
Um you know you can split your gold up right? You don't have to sell the max amount for 250... lol.
break it up and sell it for what it's worth. I mean really.
I already knew that this was an absolute genius way of making money. I knew from the beginning that the biggest winner from RMAH was going to be blizzard. Who did you think it was actually going to benefit from this?
Blizzard tries to increase post release profits! I am not shocked at all.
Here's a nice little video to watch.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Gosh you guys are ignorant.
If you read properly.
When you make the auction to sell you choose CASH or BLIZZ$$
When your item sells you pay $1 + 15% of the Total Sale to blizzard . Then you either get CASH or BLIZZ$$
There is a 2.9% charge from paypal .
You dont pay 15%+15% lmao.
Can we trade in the blizz cash for prizes like at a chuckie cheese?
Originally posted by Grailer Gosh you guys are ignorant. If you read properly. When you make the auction to sell you choose CASH or BLIZZ$$ When your item sells you pay $1 + 15% of the Total Sale to blizzard . Then you either get CASH or BLIZZ$$ There is a 2.9% charge from paypal . You dont pay 15%+15% lmao.
That is not true, last week they announced the 15% / 15%,
As for the $1 + 15% you state is also wrong, its $1 per armor or weapon piece (single stack items) 15% for all STACKABLE items like essence etc.
Next its exchange cost + blizzard cut.. It does not mention what cut this is.. but last week it was flat 15% until they had to do the legal mumbo jumbo and not state what Paypals cut was.. so now they reworded it.. payment fee, plus blizzard cut.. So you have no basis to state its anything other than 13.1% as that has been the fact stated earlier.
As for my speculation I am talking about gold sales, which will eventually be higher than 35% at these rates... This is a gold sellers wet dream... To get this chance.... It will flourish and gold will sell so much outside, it will hurt internally big time
Originally posted by dubyahite Oh and another thing, people keep saying "durr it's basic economics and business duh. Take a business class idiot. Geez " From what I understand, businesses tend to pass their costs on to their customers. If costs go up, so do prices. This is what I have been saying.
That's where you are totally wrong. this market is 100% cornered by them.. they just opened it to the masses.. if your jug of water leaks.. do you still have 100% of the water? Every drop of water they lose, is their loss... Do some calculations, At what percentage can they lose before its obvious lost income?
Hint the answer is 0.01%
If they averaged $100,000 a month profit in auction sales..
If 10% of all gold was sold outside not thru the AH, thats $10,000 in lost action. $3000 they lose
So if they lowered their cost by 10% thats what? $97000 only... But they will ruin the 3rd party marking, bring back in 10% more business, which means they do $117,000 in profit.. +inflation do to the opposite effect of not having deflation to compete with another market.
Its really simple to see, when you have a CORNERED market how easy it is to lose money being greedy
Originally posted by dubyahite YOU AREN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING AS ME BORKEN. Geez. When people are complaining that they are going to get hit for 30% when they sell, I am simply pointing out that they should pass on the transaction fee to the buyer. You are talking about gold sellers, I am talking about avoiding both fees from blizzard so you can make more money selling. HOLY CRAP.
Why are you saying this though? Who cares? Its irrelevant, its not the fee we are talking about, its the fact the fee is too high.