I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.
Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?
Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.
Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.
I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.
Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?
Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.
Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.
GW2 is still in beta. Not many people outside of ANet have played the game to 30 which is where dungeons start. The people who posted videos are from the press, had very little experience with the game's mechanics, and recorded their frist dungeon attempts.
Rift's rifts and zone events are not anything like GW2's dynamic events.
I played GW2 during the BWE. It is the next coming of mmo-jesus. If you don't like mmo-jesus then don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to like the game.
I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.
Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?
Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.
Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.
As of right now, yes, there is a death penalty in place....you lose vitality, which is your health pool. I don't know how MUCH you lose exactly or whether it stacks if you die close together, but it seems to me that it does stack and is enough that I NOTICED it. Others that didn't notice that will have to pay attention next time. What I did NOT notice is just how long it took for my regular health pool to be restored and vitality returned. It wasn't immediate is all I know.
I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.
Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?
Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.
Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.
lol. people dont even know the mechanic of dungeons. in LOTRO raids and hard dungeons if we didnt know the mechanic of them you will just die and die and keep die. in raids you even could have 12 guys all 20lvl above the raid lvl and if you didnt know boss mechanic you didnt have any chance.
in the videos you saw about dungeons GW2 is the same thing, new peple on dungeon (without any guide available) so how do you want that wasnt a mess? isnt the fact they didnt have specific classes that was a mess and have lot of dies, is because no one had a clue of what they were doing.
yes, we have death penalty (appear a skull icon near endurance bar) and that penalty stack.(yes i die many times xDD)
about RIFT the one thing they suppose have revolutionary was the rifts, nothing more. from what i play in beta GW2 was so fun and i even were doing DE "right", didnt follow any NPC but even without that they were so epic, really amazing, but GW2 is much more than DE
It isn't changing anything. The game is combining good features from other games, it's not anything revolutionary but rather just seems that way due to the sheer amount of drivel that has tried to pass as the next best thing over the past few years.
All I can say is you are in for a pleasant surprise if you decide to play the game.
GW2 is pretty impressive as a game and fun as hell, but it isn't even the most perfect implimentation of it's own "on paper" MMORPG design doctrine possible. That's one thing that excites me about the game. I love GW2 itself, but there is room for others to take the lessons of GW2 design and deliver an even more compelling game experience.
GW2 would have been a more modest evolution over the competition if the genre hadn't essentially stopped innovating after WoW was released. With a five year + development process, GW2 was designed to be an evolutionary step ahead of the anticipated competition. When everyone else essentially stood still, or even fell back a step from vanilla WoW, it set up GW2 to be something revolutionary in it's launch window.
Some people got this just by reading and watching everything they could find from the developers over the last two years. Others won't get it until they play it and play it long enough to get the old way of thinking completely out of their systems.
I don't love the game. I don't even think it's all that good. I will say that GW2 brings a lot of good ideas to the table, but as you say, I don't feel as if the execution is always there.
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Im not saying i would rather have another wow clone, GW2 at least as a couple of gimmicks that look fun for a while.
But it still has the same problem every themepark has.... it's so shallow that i can't imagine myself playing it for more than a couple of months.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
I voted no. I enjoy GW2 and have allready purchased the game, however, while there are many great things about GW2 it is still only one direction a game company can decide to go. Many will decide similar but different directions. I think the game will have an impact on future games but not as a "cornerstone" meaning a bunch of GW2 clones and nothing but.
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Could be. All I know is that the BWE ruined me. I don't think I can go back to a traditional holy-trinity ever again. It made my current MMO feel very bland and haven't played much since.
If anything, it will make other developers realize a great quality MMO can be done without monthly subs. I guarantee other companies are watching very closely.
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
Only that open world PVP is not just about griefing and ganking.
That only happens in shallow wow clones with open world PVP.
But someone who never played an MMO with good open world PVP wouldn't understand.
In Lineage 2 we had clan wars, rivalries, politics, it made the gameplay feel really dynamic.
And there was almost no ganking, since if you killed someone and became red, the whole server would hunt you to loot every piece of gear you had.
So open world PVP with mindless ganking is crap, i agree.
Open world PVP needs consequences.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
They aren't carebears. They are cowards. There is a difference.
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
While this is true, that doesn't mean all open world pvp is bad. By far the most epic PVP encounters I've been in have been open world PVP encounters, and I'm sure many others will agree.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
Only that open world PVP is not just about griefing and ganking.
That only happens in shallow wow clones with open world PVP.
But someone who never played an MMO with good open world PVP wouldn't understand.
In Lineage 2 we had clan wars, rivalries, politics, it made the gameplay feel really dynamic.
And there was almost no ganking, since if you killed someone and became red, the whole server would hunt you to loot every piece of gear you had.
So open world PVP with mindless ganking is crap, i agree.
Open world PVP needs consequences.
Oh you mean like UO pre-Trammel or on the "hardcore" shard Siege Perilous? That's where I started my MMO career.
Doesn't change the fact gankers/griefers are still huge, giant, diseased losers.
I played in a RP guild on Siege that had strict rules against ganking/griefing and we had to be Red (PK's) and remain Red just to make sure people would always come after us. Thankfully you could kill Blue npc's to get your PK flag.
Lots of wars with Blue guilds and allies with other Reds, but only the Red guilds that RP'd and played with rules/honor too - we didn't waste time with actual PK's we just slaughtered them because the carebears who tried to be PK's were always terribad at an even fight.
Honor and valor are so hard to come by in PvP games, 90%+ of FFA PvP and open world PvP is a garbage filled sh!t fest.
I'll take structure, organization, and consent every day of the week.
Trammel/Felucca split was the best thing to happen to UO and the Factions PvP warfare system (4 way faction PvP) in Felucca was the BEST PvP system ever created, and the inspiration of both DAOC and now GW2.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
Only that open world PVP is not just about griefing and ganking.
That only happens in shallow wow clones with open world PVP.
But someone who never played an MMO with good open world PVP wouldn't understand.
In Lineage 2 we had clan wars, rivalries, politics, it made the gameplay feel really dynamic.
And there was almost no ganking, since if you killed someone and became red, the whole server would hunt you to loot every piece of gear you had.
So open world PVP with mindless ganking is crap, i agree.
Open world PVP needs consequences.
Oh you mean like UO pre-Trammel or on the "hardcore" shard Siege Perilous? That's where I started my MMO career.
Doesn't change the fact gankers/griefers are still huge, giant, diseased losers.
I played in a RP guild on Siege that had strict rules against ganking/griefing and we had to be Red (PK's) and remain Red just to make sure people would always come after us. Thankfully you could kill Blue npc's to get your PK flag.
Lots of wars with Blue guilds and allies with other Reds, but only the Red guilds that RP'd and played with rules/honor too - we didn't waste time with actual PK's we just slaughtered them because the carebears who tried to be PK's were always terribad at an even fight.
Honor and valor are so hard to come by in PvP games, 90%+ of FFA PvP and open world PvP is a garbage filled sh!t fest.
I'll take structure, organization, and consent every day of the week.
Trammel/Felucca split was the best thing to happen to UO and the Factions PvP warfare system (4 way faction PvP) in Felucca was the BEST PvP system ever created, and the inspiration of both DAOC and now GW2.
I love open world PVP and i never ganked anyone, funny.. isn't it?
I really hope you don't get bored of GW2 in 2 months like with the last "big thing"
For me, organization, extreme fairness to the point of becoming an FPS with no progression, structure, and all those things makes the PVP shallow and boring, give me freedom, dynamism and unpredictable PVP over e-sport any day of the week.
Besides... ohhh someone ganked me... who cares, im not going to be butthurt and cry because of it...
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
I'll take structure, organization, and consent every day of the week.
Trammel/Felucca split was the best thing to happen to UO and the Factions PvP warfare system (4 way faction PvP) in Felucca was the BEST PvP system ever created, and the inspiration of both DAOC and now GW2.
For me, organization, extreme fairness to the point of becoming an FPS with no progression, structure, and all those things makes the PVP shallow and boring, give me freedom, dynamism and unpredictable PVP over e-sport any day of the week.
No open world PvP has extreme fairness, if it did - it wouldn't be open world PvP.
GW2 W v W PvP has a hell of a lot of structure. Organization is 100% up to the players.
It does not have progression, this is true, but I think fighting for something more than stats and colorful pixels is the only way to truly create an "end-game" that doesn't get stale after a while.
While I am "on the fence" about the whole 2-week time frame thing for W v W in GW2, as you are capturing territory for points and victory not really to "have and to hold" I understand the reason they are doing it this way - to prevent the same terrible lop sided "balance" every other open world PvP system (including my beloved UO Factions) has had.
Besides... ohhh someone ganked me... who cares, im not going to be butthurt and cry because of it...
Ah yes, this "defense" never works FYI.
It's about a game that takes away choice - and I don't think less choice is better than more choice.
If another player is allowed to make choices for me - as in they choose to gank/grief me while I am doing something else, than the game has just taken away MY choice is a player.
Who are they to make choices for me? Would they be happy if I chose that they couldn't play the game the way they wanted to?
I love PvP, but I also like to spend time far away from PvP.
I like to choose when I decide to partake in PvP, and a system like UO Factions Trammel/Felucca split or DAOC or GW2 WvW is my ideal choice in game systems.
I think the great big middle finger to the holy trinity and it's stranglehold on what "balance" means is going to do the most for the industry as a whole, especially as GW2 becomes the MMOG success story of the decade.
Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?
No there's a death reward, you get to see folks naked if dieing a lot
On a serious note though, videos don't show what you're actually experiencing as a player in-game. I once tried to show a colleague who's also a gamer how difficult the mechanics of a certain raid boss in LOTRO were from a youtube vid, but he just went meh that looks easy you just avoid this and then run away to drop a puddle and then you avoid that. Yeh right that's why the most hardcore raiding guilds on the server needed several weeks of going in every day to clear it (and it wasn't even the final boss of the raid).
It's also less of a zerg than for example what dungeons are in WoW these days where you can go in with just dps and faceroll through it within 20 mins.
And of course the lots of dieing is because folks aren't used to the new mechanics that much yet, it's more different from other games out there than you can judge from a vid.
I put yes but in ways hope not. I only mean yes, because they're doing something different and I hope no, only because I want more innovation from Games in the future.
I love open world PVP and i never ganked anyone, funny.. isn't it?
I really hope you don't get bored of GW2 in 2 months like with the last "big thing"
For me, organization, extreme fairness to the point of becoming an FPS with no progression, structure, and all those things makes the PVP shallow and boring, give me freedom, dynamism and unpredictable PVP over e-sport any day of the week.
Besides... ohhh someone ganked me... who cares, im not going to be butthurt and cry because of it...
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call either BS, or a severe case of rosy glasses.
Every, single, last, FFA, PvP game I have ever played is always rampant w/ gankers and griefers. There's not a single exception. Not even UO. Not even Shadowbane. They all have it. You didn't gank yourself? Good for you *golf clap*, that has absolutely nothing to do w/ what the rest of the population does in a FFA game. Hell, look at TERA. Before the game was even released they had gankers stalking lowbies trying to check out the quests. This was as early as closed beta.
If you like that, for some reason, then fine. However, this notion that somehow 'somewhere out there' is this magical FFA pvp system in which asshats don't ruin it for everyone else, is delusional to a curious lvl.
When you compare a structured pvp system (a good one) with a non-structured pvp system (a good one), the biggest difference is that one ensures that most fights are challenging, the other is a complete crap shoot. So while, sure, there are those rare ocassions when you get a really epic fight out of nowhere and it's awesome, it's great; most of the time with FFA pvp you get horribly skewed fights in one direction or the other. For most serious pvpers it's more annoying than fun, and the lack of consistency is a huge turn off.
As far as progression goes, I'm not sure what you are trying to say there. Both types of PvP have progression, and for both it's equally irrelevant. Both are unpredictable, both are dynamic. The difference is one's predictability = random unforseen consequences that you can't do anything about, and the other you actually have a chance to fight back. But maybe that's your big fuss. You don't like your victims having a chance to come back from an attack. It's 'too boring' when they aren't getting 1shotted. You prefer a roll-of-the-dice, 'surprise we have the most magic underpants in our guild, you lose' type of pvp system. There's games for that, have fun in those.
I wouldn't say that it is the new "touchstone" as such, because every game is copied somewhat from the new games that come out. The ideas behind GW2 will be picked over by all the developers and their favorites will get implimented into the new games, but is that really any different then every other game?
As was stated earlier, it's an evolutionary step, and that step was a long time coming. I just don't think that other games will end up being judged for quality by comparison to GW2.
Besides... ohhh someone ganked me... who cares, im not going to be butthurt and cry because of it...
Ah yes, this "defense" never works FYI.
It's about a game that takes away choice - and I don't think less choice is better than more choice.
If another player is allowed to make choices for me - as in they choose to gank/grief me while I am doing something else, than the game has just taken away MY choice is a player.
Who are they to make choices for me? Would they be happy if I chose that they couldn't play the game the way they wanted to?
I love PvP, but I also like to spend time far away from PvP.
I like to choose when I decide to partake in PvP, and a system like UO Factions Trammel/Felucca split or DAOC or GW2 WvW is my ideal choice in game systems.
+1
GW2 is all about choice, and many of us love it for that. This notion that wanting to play a game how you want to play somehow makes you a 'sissy' is ridiculous. There's a reason many of the best pvpers out there tend to stick to structured systems. Playing against evenly matched opponents makes you a better, stronger player. Playing against someone 5 lvls lower than you w/ a rusty greatsword, just doesn't.
I love open world PVP and i never ganked anyone, funny.. isn't it?
I really hope you don't get bored of GW2 in 2 months like with the last "big thing"
For me, organization, extreme fairness to the point of becoming an FPS with no progression, structure, and all those things makes the PVP shallow and boring, give me freedom, dynamism and unpredictable PVP over e-sport any day of the week.
Besides... ohhh someone ganked me... who cares, im not going to be butthurt and cry because of it...
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call either BS, or a severe case of rosy glasses.
Every, single, last, FFA, PvP game I have ever played is always rampant w/ gankers and griefers. There's not a single exception. Not even UO. Not even Shadowbane. They all have it. You didn't gank yourself? Good for you *golf clap*, that has absolutely nothing to do w/ what the rest of the population does in a FFA game. Hell, look at TERA. Before the game was even released they had gankers stalking lowbies trying to check out the quests. This was as early as closed beta.
If you like that, for some reason, then fine. However, this notion that somehow 'somewhere out there' is this magical FFA pvp system in which asshats don't ruin it for everyone else, is delusional to a curious lvl.
When you compare a structured pvp system (a good one) with a non-structured pvp system (a good one), the biggest difference is that one ensures that most fights are challenging, the other is a complete crap shoot. So while, sure, there are those rare ocassions when you get a really epic fight out of nowhere and it's awesome, it's great; most of the time with FFA pvp you get horribly skewed fights in one direction or the other. For most serious pvpers it's more annoying than fun, and the lack of consistency is a huge turn off.
As far as progression goes, I'm not sure what you are trying to say there. Both types of PvP have progression, and for both it's equally irrelevant. Both are unpredictable, both are dynamic. The difference is one's predictability = random unforseen consequences that you can't do anything about, and the other you actually have a chance to fight back. But maybe that's your big fuss. You don't like your victims having a chance to come back from an attack. It's 'too boring' when they aren't getting 1shotted. You prefer a roll-of-the-dice, 'surprise we have the most magic underpants in our guild, you lose' type of pvp system. There's games for that, have fun in those.
Have you even read anything of what i posted?
I never ganked anyone, and you are wrong about FFA PVP.
You sound like a mad fanboy, get a grip, not everyone likes the same things.
OMG someone said something bad about MY PRECIOUS i better nerd rage and end this right now!
Pfff, not even gonna bother.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
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Meh, it remains to be seen just how "awesome" eliminating the holy trinity will be. The few dungeons I've seen on youtube were zerg fests with lots and LOTS of rezzing. That's one way to eliminate the trinity I suppose. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is there even a death penalty?
Also, I distinctly remember this same hype and craze when Rift came out how Rifts (public quests, dynamic events, whatever) were going to revolutionize gaming and yada yada.
Wait for the game to release before it's heralded as the next coming of mmo-jesus.
GW2 is still in beta. Not many people outside of ANet have played the game to 30 which is where dungeons start. The people who posted videos are from the press, had very little experience with the game's mechanics, and recorded their frist dungeon attempts.
Rift's rifts and zone events are not anything like GW2's dynamic events.
I played GW2 during the BWE. It is the next coming of mmo-jesus. If you don't like mmo-jesus then don't play it. Nobody is forcing you to like the game.
As of right now, yes, there is a death penalty in place....you lose vitality, which is your health pool. I don't know how MUCH you lose exactly or whether it stacks if you die close together, but it seems to me that it does stack and is enough that I NOTICED it. Others that didn't notice that will have to pay attention next time.
What I did NOT notice is just how long it took for my regular health pool to be restored and vitality returned. It wasn't immediate is all I know.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
lol. people dont even know the mechanic of dungeons. in LOTRO raids and hard dungeons if we didnt know the mechanic of them you will just die and die and keep die. in raids you even could have 12 guys all 20lvl above the raid lvl and if you didnt know boss mechanic you didnt have any chance.
in the videos you saw about dungeons GW2 is the same thing, new peple on dungeon (without any guide available) so how do you want that wasnt a mess? isnt the fact they didnt have specific classes that was a mess and have lot of dies, is because no one had a clue of what they were doing.
yes, we have death penalty (appear a skull icon near endurance bar) and that penalty stack.(yes i die many times xDD)
about RIFT the one thing they suppose have revolutionary was the rifts, nothing more. from what i play in beta GW2 was so fun and i even were doing DE "right", didnt follow any NPC but even without that they were so epic, really amazing, but GW2 is much more than DE
I don't love the game. I don't even think it's all that good. I will say that GW2 brings a lot of good ideas to the table, but as you say, I don't feel as if the execution is always there.
God, i hope not.
I actually like to play the same MMO for years.
GW2 doesn't look to be that MMO, carebear PVP, lack of sandbox elements, simplified group mechanics, "everyone is special", lack of progression in PVE and PVP (no i don't want a gear grind either), no community, solo grouping, yeah... nop.
At least not for me, but maybe it's because im just tired of themeparks with 2 or 3 gimmicks that get boring really fast.
The PVP also looks to be a boring zergfest.
Im not saying i would rather have another wow clone, GW2 at least as a couple of gimmicks that look fun for a while.
But it still has the same problem every themepark has.... it's so shallow that i can't imagine myself playing it for more than a couple of months.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Either your sig is what it is out of irony or sarcasm or you my friend are quite confused.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
I voted no. I enjoy GW2 and have allready purchased the game, however, while there are many great things about GW2 it is still only one direction a game company can decide to go. Many will decide similar but different directions. I think the game will have an impact on future games but not as a "cornerstone" meaning a bunch of GW2 clones and nothing but.
Yeah otacu said that a couple of weeks ago, im still laughing my ass off everytime i read it.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Could be. All I know is that the BWE ruined me. I don't think I can go back to a traditional holy-trinity ever again. It made my current MMO feel very bland and haven't played much since.
If anything, it will make other developers realize a great quality MMO can be done without monthly subs. I guarantee other companies are watching very closely.
Caveat: While I said Yes. That means its the same as WoW many will imitate almost no one will actually see the same success.
And the parade of huge expensive MMO failures will continue.
Good, because I am going to start laughing every time you think ganking/griefing is a "hardcore" PvP mechanic.
You know, there is a reason that the hordes of barbarians raping/killing defensless villagers are always the "bad guys" in the stories/movies - the same reason the noble hero who defends/protects the weak against long odds is the good guy -
Gankers/griefers are the most carebear p#$$ies in PvP.
Only that open world PVP is not just about griefing and ganking.
That only happens in shallow wow clones with open world PVP.
But someone who never played an MMO with good open world PVP wouldn't understand.
In Lineage 2 we had clan wars, rivalries, politics, it made the gameplay feel really dynamic.
And there was almost no ganking, since if you killed someone and became red, the whole server would hunt you to loot every piece of gear you had.
So open world PVP with mindless ganking is crap, i agree.
Open world PVP needs consequences.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
They aren't carebears. They are cowards. There is a difference.
Some carebears are quite brave.
While this is true, that doesn't mean all open world pvp is bad. By far the most epic PVP encounters I've been in have been open world PVP encounters, and I'm sure many others will agree.
Oh you mean like UO pre-Trammel or on the "hardcore" shard Siege Perilous? That's where I started my MMO career.
Doesn't change the fact gankers/griefers are still huge, giant, diseased losers.
I played in a RP guild on Siege that had strict rules against ganking/griefing and we had to be Red (PK's) and remain Red just to make sure people would always come after us. Thankfully you could kill Blue npc's to get your PK flag.
Lots of wars with Blue guilds and allies with other Reds, but only the Red guilds that RP'd and played with rules/honor too - we didn't waste time with actual PK's we just slaughtered them because the carebears who tried to be PK's were always terribad at an even fight.
Honor and valor are so hard to come by in PvP games, 90%+ of FFA PvP and open world PvP is a garbage filled sh!t fest.
I'll take structure, organization, and consent every day of the week.
Trammel/Felucca split was the best thing to happen to UO and the Factions PvP warfare system (4 way faction PvP) in Felucca was the BEST PvP system ever created, and the inspiration of both DAOC and now GW2.
I love open world PVP and i never ganked anyone, funny.. isn't it?
I really hope you don't get bored of GW2 in 2 months like with the last "big thing"
For me, organization, extreme fairness to the point of becoming an FPS with no progression, structure, and all those things makes the PVP shallow and boring, give me freedom, dynamism and unpredictable PVP over e-sport any day of the week.
Besides... ohhh someone ganked me... who cares, im not going to be butthurt and cry because of it...
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
No open world PvP has extreme fairness, if it did - it wouldn't be open world PvP.
GW2 W v W PvP has a hell of a lot of structure. Organization is 100% up to the players.
It does not have progression, this is true, but I think fighting for something more than stats and colorful pixels is the only way to truly create an "end-game" that doesn't get stale after a while.
While I am "on the fence" about the whole 2-week time frame thing for W v W in GW2, as you are capturing territory for points and victory not really to "have and to hold" I understand the reason they are doing it this way - to prevent the same terrible lop sided "balance" every other open world PvP system (including my beloved UO Factions) has had.
Ah yes, this "defense" never works FYI.
It's about a game that takes away choice - and I don't think less choice is better than more choice.
If another player is allowed to make choices for me - as in they choose to gank/grief me while I am doing something else, than the game has just taken away MY choice is a player.
Who are they to make choices for me? Would they be happy if I chose that they couldn't play the game the way they wanted to?
I love PvP, but I also like to spend time far away from PvP.
I like to choose when I decide to partake in PvP, and a system like UO Factions Trammel/Felucca split or DAOC or GW2 WvW is my ideal choice in game systems.
No there's a death reward, you get to see folks naked if dieing a lot
On a serious note though, videos don't show what you're actually experiencing as a player in-game. I once tried to show a colleague who's also a gamer how difficult the mechanics of a certain raid boss in LOTRO were from a youtube vid, but he just went meh that looks easy you just avoid this and then run away to drop a puddle and then you avoid that. Yeh right that's why the most hardcore raiding guilds on the server needed several weeks of going in every day to clear it (and it wasn't even the final boss of the raid).
It's also less of a zerg than for example what dungeons are in WoW these days where you can go in with just dps and faceroll through it within 20 mins.
And of course the lots of dieing is because folks aren't used to the new mechanics that much yet, it's more different from other games out there than you can judge from a vid.
I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call either BS, or a severe case of rosy glasses.
Every, single, last, FFA, PvP game I have ever played is always rampant w/ gankers and griefers. There's not a single exception. Not even UO. Not even Shadowbane. They all have it. You didn't gank yourself? Good for you *golf clap*, that has absolutely nothing to do w/ what the rest of the population does in a FFA game. Hell, look at TERA. Before the game was even released they had gankers stalking lowbies trying to check out the quests. This was as early as closed beta.
If you like that, for some reason, then fine. However, this notion that somehow 'somewhere out there' is this magical FFA pvp system in which asshats don't ruin it for everyone else, is delusional to a curious lvl.
When you compare a structured pvp system (a good one) with a non-structured pvp system (a good one), the biggest difference is that one ensures that most fights are challenging, the other is a complete crap shoot. So while, sure, there are those rare ocassions when you get a really epic fight out of nowhere and it's awesome, it's great; most of the time with FFA pvp you get horribly skewed fights in one direction or the other. For most serious pvpers it's more annoying than fun, and the lack of consistency is a huge turn off.
As far as progression goes, I'm not sure what you are trying to say there. Both types of PvP have progression, and for both it's equally irrelevant. Both are unpredictable, both are dynamic. The difference is one's predictability = random unforseen consequences that you can't do anything about, and the other you actually have a chance to fight back. But maybe that's your big fuss. You don't like your victims having a chance to come back from an attack. It's 'too boring' when they aren't getting 1shotted. You prefer a roll-of-the-dice, 'surprise we have the most magic underpants in our guild, you lose' type of pvp system. There's games for that, have fun in those.
I wouldn't say that it is the new "touchstone" as such, because every game is copied somewhat from the new games that come out. The ideas behind GW2 will be picked over by all the developers and their favorites will get implimented into the new games, but is that really any different then every other game?
As was stated earlier, it's an evolutionary step, and that step was a long time coming. I just don't think that other games will end up being judged for quality by comparison to GW2.
+1
GW2 is all about choice, and many of us love it for that. This notion that wanting to play a game how you want to play somehow makes you a 'sissy' is ridiculous. There's a reason many of the best pvpers out there tend to stick to structured systems. Playing against evenly matched opponents makes you a better, stronger player. Playing against someone 5 lvls lower than you w/ a rusty greatsword, just doesn't.
Have you even read anything of what i posted?
I never ganked anyone, and you are wrong about FFA PVP.
You sound like a mad fanboy, get a grip, not everyone likes the same things.
OMG someone said something bad about MY PRECIOUS i better nerd rage and end this right now!
Pfff, not even gonna bother.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu