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GW2 is Tab Targeting, not Aim based like a TPS/FPS

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  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Redemp

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Redemp


    Originally posted by Volkon


     

    Sorry to hear that. I have nearly 60 hours of mesmer play in my pocket so far, most of that with the greatsword/ staff combination. I'm fairly familiar with it so far and have no need to make anything up regarding this game. It's awesome enough without me lying about it.

    I'm going to back Volkon up here,  you can definately shoot the Greatsword over your shoulder.

    -- 1:17 - 1:20

     

    The enemy is in front of him 100% of the time.

     

    He shifts to target another player, but if you are not facing, you are not doing damage. I promise.

     

    Edit: In other words, the animation does not stop if you are facing the person and quickly turn. That is what happened in that video. Play it. You will know.

    He did two auto attack animations with his back turned ...... it wasn't just a quick turn.

     

    That vid is too hard to guess what exactly happened. Try this vid, look for how many times I miss when I hit the signet with the flaming ember symbol. Hint: I miss twice and why do I miss? Because I wasn't facing the target whilst aiming with the right mouse button.

    People who say the game has two aiming modes are not lying, it really does. It's both like a TPS and like a traditional MMO.

    EDIT: And just to help my case a bit, the skill that I miss with is supposed to immobilize the person I target, if he isn't immobilized, then I missed.

    This is not a game.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    I played the entire BWE simply LOOKING at targets to target them.  I did not tab target, that's for sure.  You simply direct your gaze at a target and fire away.

     

    If you did not PLAY the game during the BWE.....you do not know what you're talking about.  You can experience it to KNOW.  So keep on babbling on and you keep on sounding like an ill-informed school child trying to prove a point.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    Originally posted by Redemp


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by Redemp


    Originally posted by Volkon


     

    Sorry to hear that. I have nearly 60 hours of mesmer play in my pocket so far, most of that with the greatsword/ staff combination. I'm fairly familiar with it so far and have no need to make anything up regarding this game. It's awesome enough without me lying about it.

    I'm going to back Volkon up here,  you can definately shoot the Greatsword over your shoulder.

    -- 1:17 - 1:20

     

    The enemy is in front of him 100% of the time.

     

    He shifts to target another player, but if you are not facing, you are not doing damage. I promise.

     

    Edit: In other words, the animation does not stop if you are facing the person and quickly turn. That is what happened in that video. Play it. You will know.

    He did two auto attack animations with his back turned ...... it wasn't just a quick turn. His first AA broke the boxes , the second fired off after that while his back was still turned. If you say it doesn't deal damage when his backs turned I couldn't argue that , but it definately fired off and it wasn't a animation delay sort of deal.

     

     

    Maybe my memory is faulty, who knows. If I'm wrong I will admit it next BWE. Maybe the target on the left was within the firing arc since we don't see it? Who knows, but I really don't have an interest in arguing the point.

     I don't think you can continually fire the AA while having your back to someone ... and if you can it absolutely has to be unintended. I do think there might be a window for you to fire over your back ,  or at the very least a graphical bug that does no damage . So meh ... my mate played a Mesmer about as much time as I played my engineer ( enough to be as proficient as you can in three days ) and he states the same as Volkon... but can't say if it actually does damage or not.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by colddog04

    All i can do at this point is shake my head. You guys have played the game. We will all play it soon again.

     

    Try turning you back to a mob and pressing whatever your version of 1 is. There really isn't a reason to bicker at this point.

    Maybe that's the confusion... it's not initiating the attack when the opponent is behind you... it's when you're on auto-attack. The attack around 1:14, the attack clearly initiates while the opponent is in front and the player turns during the attack. The one at 1:17, however, the opponent is clearly behind the player and the attack initiates back behind over the left shoulder.

    It's not bickering... it's visual evidence backing my observations. It would be nice to have additional footage however.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    I played the entire BWE simply LOOKING at targets to target them.  I did not tab target, that's for sure.  You simply direct your gaze at a target and fire away.

     

    If you did not PLAY the game during the BWE.....you do not know what you're talking about.  You can experience it to KNOW.  So keep on babbling on and you keep on sounding like an ill-informed school child trying to prove a point.

    I'm not going to pretend you don't understand this, but...

     

    Lets say there are 2 players standing next to each other in front of you. One of them has half health and one of them has full health. They are both wearing cloth.

     

    Now, without targeting them with tab, how do you, as a PvP player, choose the one with half health without tab targeting?

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    I played the entire BWE simply LOOKING at targets to target them.  I did not tab target, that's for sure.  You simply direct your gaze at a target and fire away.

     

    If you did not PLAY the game during the BWE.....you do not know what you're talking about.  You can experience it to KNOW.  So keep on babbling on and you keep on sounding like an ill-informed school child trying to prove a point.

    I'm not going to pretend you don't understand this, but...

     

    Lets say there are 2 players standing next to each other in front of you. One of them has half health and one of them has full health. They are both wearing cloth.

     

    Now, without targeting them with tab, how do you, as a PvP player, choose the one with half health without tab targeting?

    Clicking is also an option, but I admit it... I tab.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by colddog04

    All i can do at this point is shake my head. You guys have played the game. We will all play it soon again.

     

    Try turning you back to a mob and pressing whatever your version of 1 is. There really isn't a reason to bicker at this point.

    Maybe that's the confusion... it's not initiating the attack when the opponent is behind you... it's when you're on auto-attack. The attack around 1:14, the attack clearly initiates while the opponent is in front and the player turns during the attack. The one at 1:17, however, the opponent is clearly behind the player and the attack initiates back behind over the left shoulder.

    It's not bickering... it's visual evidence backing my observations. It would be nice to have additional footage however.

    One question Volk, do you turn using the right mouse button and if yes, do you release it when you're done turning?

    This is not a game.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,073Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    I played the entire BWE simply LOOKING at targets to target them.  I did not tab target, that's for sure.  You simply direct your gaze at a target and fire away.

     

    If you did not PLAY the game during the BWE.....you do not know what you're talking about.  You can experience it to KNOW.  So keep on babbling on and you keep on sounding like an ill-informed school child trying to prove a point.

    I'm not going to pretend you don't understand this, but...

     

    Lets say there are 2 players standing next to each other in front of you. One of them has half health and one of them has full health. They are both wearing cloth.

     

    Now, without targeting them with tab, how do you, as a PvP player, choose the one with half health without tab targeting?

    more importantly, if the game can auto 'choose a target' based on where you are facing, why not just add a reticle targetting option for precision sake?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by colddog04

    All i can do at this point is shake my head. You guys have played the game. We will all play it soon again.

     

    Try turning you back to a mob and pressing whatever your version of 1 is. There really isn't a reason to bicker at this point.

    Maybe that's the confusion... it's not initiating the attack when the opponent is behind you... it's when you're on auto-attack. The attack around 1:14, the attack clearly initiates while the opponent is in front and the player turns during the attack. The one at 1:17, however, the opponent is clearly behind the player and the attack initiates back behind over the left shoulder.

    It's not bickering... it's visual evidence backing my observations. It would be nice to have additional footage however.

    There is no visual evidence. There have been a few people that can see it's not conclusive. 

     

    You need to be facing with a Mesmer/greatsword for "1" to do damage. I know this. You may be expereinced enough to have an opinion, but you certainly weren't perceptive enough.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by just1opinion

    I played the entire BWE simply LOOKING at targets to target them.  I did not tab target, that's for sure.  You simply direct your gaze at a target and fire away.

     

    If you did not PLAY the game during the BWE.....you do not know what you're talking about.  You can experience it to KNOW.  So keep on babbling on and you keep on sounding like an ill-informed school child trying to prove a point.

    I'm not going to pretend you don't understand this, but...

     

    Lets say there are 2 players standing next to each other in front of you. One of them has half health and one of them has full health. They are both wearing cloth.

     

    Now, without targeting them with tab, how do you, as a PvP player, choose the one with half health without tab targeting?

    Clicking is also an option, but I admit it... I tab.

    I click to target sometimes as well. I keep my mouse reticle towards the center at all times just in case I need to quick switch if someone calls it out in vent.

     

    The point had to do with them claiming to literally LOOK at them and use skills. It was ridiculous if you want to be competitive.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by colddog04

    All i can do at this point is shake my head. You guys have played the game. We will all play it soon again.

     

    Try turning you back to a mob and pressing whatever your version of 1 is. There really isn't a reason to bicker at this point.

    Maybe that's the confusion... it's not initiating the attack when the opponent is behind you... it's when you're on auto-attack. The attack around 1:14, the attack clearly initiates while the opponent is in front and the player turns during the attack. The one at 1:17, however, the opponent is clearly behind the player and the attack initiates back behind over the left shoulder.

    It's not bickering... it's visual evidence backing my observations. It would be nice to have additional footage however.

    One question Volk, do you turn using the right mouse button?

        I definitely mouse turn... trying to remember which button was an actual turn and which was the camera, but yes, all turning is mouse turning. I move with the standard key set-up (haven't re-mapped yet, but I may...) using QWES for movement and the mouse to turn.

        Isn't that funny... it's become such a muscle memory habit I can't remember which button it is. image

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by just1opinion

    I played the entire BWE simply LOOKING at targets to target them.  I did not tab target, that's for sure.  You simply direct your gaze at a target and fire away.

     

    If you did not PLAY the game during the BWE.....you do not know what you're talking about.  You can experience it to KNOW.  So keep on babbling on and you keep on sounding like an ill-informed school child trying to prove a point.

    I'm not going to pretend you don't understand this, but...

     

    Lets say there are 2 players standing next to each other in front of you. One of them has half health and one of them has full health. They are both wearing cloth.

     

    Now, without targeting them with tab, how do you, as a PvP player, choose the one with half health without tab targeting?

    more importantly, if the game can auto attack based on where you are facing, why not just add a reticle targetting option for precision sake?

    The only time the game attacks for you is if you have a target, if you don't have a target, you have to attack yourself and if you do attack yourself (without anything selected) it will shoot directly in front of you. Now If you do have a target selected and that target is behind you and you're not holding the right mouse button, it will then attack the thing behind you. AND THEN, if you do hold the right mouse button, whilst you have a target selected, it will attack anything you're facing.

    I wish I could repeat this like 500 times to the people continuously arguing about this.

    This is not a game.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by Zeroxin


    Originally posted by Volkon


    Originally posted by colddog04

    All i can do at this point is shake my head. You guys have played the game. We will all play it soon again.

     

    Try turning you back to a mob and pressing whatever your version of 1 is. There really isn't a reason to bicker at this point.

    Maybe that's the confusion... it's not initiating the attack when the opponent is behind you... it's when you're on auto-attack. The attack around 1:14, the attack clearly initiates while the opponent is in front and the player turns during the attack. The one at 1:17, however, the opponent is clearly behind the player and the attack initiates back behind over the left shoulder.

    It's not bickering... it's visual evidence backing my observations. It would be nice to have additional footage however.

    One question Volk, do you turn using the right mouse button?

        I definitely mouse turn... trying to remember which button was an actual turn and which was the camera, but yes, all turning is mouse turning. I move with the standard key set-up (haven't re-mapped yet, but I may...) using QWES for movement and the mouse to turn.

        Isn't that funny... it's become such a muscle memory habit I can't remember which button it is. image

    Do you release it after you turn?

    This is not a game.

  • RedempRedemp Hot Springs, ARPosts: 1,042Member

     I think the Greatswords over the shoulders a graphical glitch, it doesn't appear to do any damage ... Here is another video, at 15:00 it fires without it being a turn issue ... but the only damage appears to be from her clones.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by colddog04

    All i can do at this point is shake my head. You guys have played the game. We will all play it soon again.

     

    Try turning you back to a mob and pressing whatever your version of 1 is. There really isn't a reason to bicker at this point.

    Maybe that's the confusion... it's not initiating the attack when the opponent is behind you... it's when you're on auto-attack. The attack around 1:14, the attack clearly initiates while the opponent is in front and the player turns during the attack. The one at 1:17, however, the opponent is clearly behind the player and the attack initiates back behind over the left shoulder.

    It's not bickering... it's visual evidence backing my observations. It would be nice to have additional footage however.

    One question Volk, do you turn using the right mouse button?

        I definitely mouse turn... trying to remember which button was an actual turn and which was the camera, but yes, all turning is mouse turning. I move with the standard key set-up (haven't re-mapped yet, but I may...) using QWES for movement and the mouse to turn.

        Isn't that funny... it's become such a muscle memory habit I can't remember which button it is. image

    Do you release it after you turn?

        To be perfectly honest I can't say if I do or don't... I really was at the point of no longer thinking about it. I'm fairly certain I release if it's a turn and go, but if it's a turn and continue to maneuver I'd have to be holding it down. Now... running away, I know I've headed in the opposite direction then simply turned the camera to look behind while I kept going. Hang on... let me clear a little cranial smoke... right to turn, left to look behind while moving, swap back for more directional changes...

        I think that's right (?)  I need to get back in game. Someone have ANet fire up a beta for the evening?

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,906Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

     

    The only time the game attacks for you is if you have a target, if you don't have a target, you have to attack yourself and if you do attack yourself (without anything selected) it will shoot directly in front of you. Now If you do have a target selected and that target is behind you and you're not holding the right mouse button, it will then attack the thing behind you. AND THEN, if you do hold the right mouse button, whilst you have a target selected, it will attack anything you're facing.

     

    Is this (in yellow) a bug?


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon

     If you have learned any good Melee tips that you think we should pass on to newer players feel free to post them here. I’ll start with a few tips of my own.

    - If you don’t have mouse look on when using a skill you will turn to face. I sometimes let go of mouse look as I activate to help me aim through the chaos and then click it back down in between attacks. 
    - Quote from Anet

    This is not a game.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,498Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

    Originally posted by Zeroxin


     

    The only time the game attacks for you is if you have a target, if you don't have a target, you have to attack yourself and if you do attack yourself (without anything selected) it will shoot directly in front of you. Now If you do have a target selected and that target is behind you and you're not holding the right mouse button, it will then attack the thing behind you. AND THEN, if you do hold the right mouse button, whilst you have a target selected, it will attack anything you're facing.

     

    Is this (in yellow) a bug?

    It's a setting.

     

    You can make it so you auto-face when you use a skill while not using mouse look.

  • c-trayc-tray Sherbrooke, QCPosts: 98Member

    Originally posted by svann

    Originally posted by Kalfer


    Originally posted by svann

    If a tab targetted arrow will miss if you move out of the way does that mean that if someone is running you have to lead the target or it will always miss?

    When you dodge you automatically protect yourself from damage. that is why rolls are important. they literally make you not take damage.

     

    meaning dodging can be used offensively.. you can roll directly into an kiting enemy, avoiding taking the damage as you roll forward him.

     

    which again explains why you only got two dodges before your out.. and which also explains why dodging is important in this game. 

    I was just asking about normal movement not the dodge mechanic though.  Its been said that you can dodge, or you can just move out of the way.  So does a moving target have to be lead or will always miss?

    I will honestly do more testing on this next beta weekend. I played a melee class most of last bwe and i did not need to tab to hit my targets that i can confirm 100% i could just swing and if they were in front of my weapon they got hit. I will for sure make a ranger or thief and test more range so as to be equip to give truthfull anwers on the mechanics.

    I did try a staff on my Guardian which had some ranged abilities and I could fire without having a target and it would go in the direction i was facing, also can confirm 100% that players could move out of the way of my shot, without dodging and avoid any damage.

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk BFE, KSPosts: 894Member

    GW2 is different from WoW and WoW clones like Tera and SWTOR.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member

    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    GW2 is different from WoW and WoW clones like Tera and SWTOR.

    if you say Tera is a wow clone in terms of quest and other things i agree, but how can Tera be wow clone if the combat system is nothing to do with WoW?

    SWTOR / LOTRO / RIFT in combat mechanic are wow clone obvious but Tera? really?

     

  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member

    Originally posted by p_c_sousa

    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    GW2 is different from WoW and WoW clones like Tera and SWTOR.

    if you say Tera is a wow clone in terms of quest and other things i agree, but how can Tera be wow clone if the combat system is nothing to do with WoW?

    SWTOR / LOTRO / RIFT in combat mechanic are wow clone obvious but Tera? really?

     

    He never mentioned combat, so you shouldn't attack him like that, and besides I am sure he ment to say that tera and swtor have more features like wow than gw2... too bad clone is used way often these days...

    image
  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    GW2 is different from WoW and WoW clones like Tera and SWTOR.

     

    lol TERA is a wow clone.

     

    GW2 is so different with it's public quests.. or are they called rifts? No wait, they're called Dynamic Events in this game. But I won't get into that.

     

    I'm glad people are starting to break down just how much of a hybrid system this. It's not exactly fully on either side of the spectrum.

     

    However, there clearly are skills that auto-target and home to the target.

     

    Side-stepping clearly didn't work there. He uses that charge at the start of every fight to auto-track to his target every time. Looking at the leap it doesn't seem to be as 100% on its accuracy. This makes me wonder if 'auto-lock' skills will end up being chosen more for PvP loadouts etc.

     

    There are a few examples of his character auto-turning to meet the target on attacks as well which is pretty lame but oh well.

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk BFE, KSPosts: 894Member

    Originally posted by p_c_sousa

    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    GW2 is different from WoW and WoW clones like Tera and SWTOR.

    if you say Tera is a wow clone in terms of quest and other things i agree, but how can Tera be wow clone if the combat system is nothing to do with WoW?

    SWTOR / LOTRO / RIFT in combat mechanic are wow clone obvious but Tera? really?

     

    When you attack something in Tera your target pops up so it's exactly the same as WoW.

  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    Originally posted by p_c_sousa


    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    GW2 is different from WoW and WoW clones like Tera and SWTOR.

    if you say Tera is a wow clone in terms of quest and other things i agree, but how can Tera be wow clone if the combat system is nothing to do with WoW?

    SWTOR / LOTRO / RIFT in combat mechanic are wow clone obvious but Tera? really?

     

    When you attack something in Tera your target pops up so it's exactly the same as WoW.

     

    The game has swords and magic, it's obviously a WoW clone.

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