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You lost me at Hero Engine
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exactly Hero Engines isnt bad but it didnt work for TOR and prob wont work for TES online too
Oh no not another one using the hero engine, they must be giving away sex with every purchase to shift code to this many devs.
While Hero engine is far from the best engine out there saying that any game who use it must suck is rather dumb.
The only MMO I can think of that failed because the engine is Vanguard, and that was because the engine were so poorly coded that the game were so bugged out it was close to impossible to play it at launch. it could still have done fine if they waited with the release until the engine was fixed up.
?The hero engine is not to blame for TOR, TORs issues is because Bioware made a single player MMO more or less. The game just isn't massive enough.
A really good dev can make a great game with a poor engine even if it limits the option they have.
I don't know enough of ESO to call it a good or bad game yet, but just saying it is trash because of the engine isn't fair at all.
Woaaah, there is many more MMO's that have failed because of the engine. Case in point #1 Tabula Rasa.
The fact that so many people on low end computers couldnt play the game without one of two things happening, either
A. The game would lag severly with graphics set only to medium.
or
B. If you put the graphics on low the graphics looked like an N64 game (Seriously it was that bad).
The fact is that you and alot of other people are missing out on my point (And this is no offense to you Loke cause I actually like alot of your posts) which is that "The Devs Lost me at Hero Engine" is for the fact that the hero engine should have no place in assocation with an Elder Scrolls game.
Its just a bad pick for an engine to compliment the games lore, core fan base, and gameplay mechanics.
Im sure an MMO can be made on the engine that is halfway decent, but the fact is thats never been shown by any of the multiutde of games thats been released on it, and again its just bad for ESO. Poor Descions from a Bad Director whose too old and wants to make money, sorry guys buy im saying it like it is and if people have a problem with that they are just blindlessly defending a game that theyve only known about for two days with no evidence to back up the supporting argument. Me and many other people in this post have sited failures of the hero engine yet people think we are the whiners and they can site any success of the damn engine? Think about it guys!
...as one can easily see by comparing DAoC, Dragonica, Rift and WAR.
Or were you talking about how TERA. DCUO and APB are pretty much clones of each other?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When you use an engine to create an mmo you need to take a special dumb into Threading.
Many people mean things you usually don't have in a single player game need throttling and control in terms of prioritisation or delaying data paket streams.
Even most small things like UI bufficons can kill your game performance because you have to update and coordinate for every member who can utilize this information.
If i have a raidwide buff which influences 40 people, the client needs to update information on the buffbars of every member (if i have it visible). Add 20 effects to 40 members and you may end up having 5 fps because the UI bufficons clunkered your whole thread (if any seperated for UI) and killed all performance which was needed for FX updates, texture streaming, AI calculation etc.
That's why in most mmos you can turn of buffs or other IU information and suddenly have a fluid game expirience during extreme "40 vs 40 pvp etc" situations.
- LOTRO
- SWTOR
- WAR
- AOC
etc....
WOW got it right today but not without the initaly failure too.
Now these things do not only apply to UI bufficons, but to all UI information as well as ANY OTHER aspect. Your engine needs to be altered individually for your game to avoid shuttering.
Aion and TERA have sliders for Texture and model straming during such situations. (Someone done his homework)
This isn't a small thing.
Designing threading is like designing the netcode from scratch. You need concepts and many proof of work hours plunged into it. It will define how your whole client loads and works with the information given.
Personally when *i* as an armchair developer with personal interessts take on an Game Engine i will need someone with the knowhow to be aware of this and get this done. (haha good one, right EAware?)
Concerning HEROENGINE. Now since they claim to be best fitting for MMOs i would think *someone* may have thought of this and given proper ease of developing in this field, right?
Like presets where i can just adjust values, well documented for my mmo creation needs....right?
DERP. (That's really the only MEME fitting)
HEROENGINE doesn ot offer much when it comes to the real interessting core parts. But hey they got a dialogue editor where i can just type in questchains! YAY* (facepalm)
I'm looking forward seeing framerate chocking, and "lag" mass PVP due to bufficons, stealth rogue detecting because the client always loads the rogues players full set without proper thread streaming and priorisation. (You always know when a rogue is nearby because your client hicks for half a second) - and my favorite. VRAM cluttering and RAM leaking due to many texture stream calls at once.
In short an engine not optimized for any MMO environment.
Source of your information? as far as i know, the main reason (the general consensus on forums) why people quit was because of lack of support by the company and lack of any kind of end game. Updates were too slow and there was hardly any content added to the game.
But please don't be shy to share link with us to show that Tabula Rasa failed due to its engine.
The look of the UI and the graphics have nothing to do with the graphics engine... at all. The engine renders the interface, models and animations that the developers create.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In the whole thread I keep asking to name and explain those limitations of hero engine. Still no answer...
So once again: Would you mind to name and explain those so called limitations and their dependency and relation to hero engine?
He won't reply. Every time you ask him to back up his claims he disappears. I am beginning to feel that i am being trolled.
Just because BioWare fucked up with the Hero engine does not mean Zenimax Online Studios will. Imo BioWare are not that great when it comes to engines,take the first witcher game,it was made using the BioWare engine but they made it run/look way better than any Bioware game up to that point.
What constitutes "a multitude" to you?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Coz NW/2 was the only game ever released using the engine?
I think until we get a game using the hero engine that we love, we are going to be skeptical. Right now the most noteable example of this engine is TOR, and based on it's limitations we assume the engine is no good. But perhaps it's just that Bioware's mmo developers are no good and did not use the engine properly.
I don't really know if the engine is good or not because I'm not a computer programmer/developer. What I can tell you is SWTOR is not the best advertisement for an engine.
Already failed before it came out lol.
Hero Engine is terible, no mater how you look at it.
Many seem to not know that TOR's use of that engine was not really the hero engine any longer, they drastically overhauled it to suit their needs. Not to mention the engine they purchased was not the finsihed Hero engine but more or less a prototype build. I don't even believe BW had support from the company after it's purchase (a partnership).
At least here (zenimax) they've partnered with the creators, which means they could end up with the actual engine and it's full capability. Depending on whether they've modded their usage of it or not, which I have no idea.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
RvR + Hero Engine = Ilum!
WAR didnt use the Hero Engine.. It used Gamebryo. Just like Rift..
the base segment of the code will remain the same.
the company i work for has bought over the years many smaller companies and integrated their own SW into our own,
everything that relate to the GUI side etc is being dealt by us (the mother company ) but all the R&D and issues. bugs etc. is still being dealt by the original people from the company that was bought,
since even if you change/. mix and match/ add features etc etc. the foundation of the code will still be the same,
it is what everything else is build on.
most of the restrictions will remain the same.
i believe that they sat down, and the HERO guys said:
this is our engine,
he can do A.B. and C.
you can modify it to also do D and E.
and we plan to have it do F and G.
now since the base code remain the same, the the HERO guys already sold the engine to biowere, it seems only logic to make future updates comfortable with existing code,
even if that code has been heavily modified.
again this is all IMO, but with a pinch,
i work for a SW company, with take products from Linux and put them in windows.
and its not to take 1 product and add a unified GUI to it, its 10 different products, each is written in a different code, by different people,
and all have to work together (i am talking about AV,AM AS,FW,VPN, AC, web secured, ip security and more...)
actually i think it right on the lines of what the HERO guys posted or was quoted,
something alone the lines" they bought the engine from us, and wanted nothing else from us.
both Bioware/EA, and Bethesda/Zanimax choose the easy way it seems.
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Wait a second, wait a second...
TES is using an engine that was originally designed for an instanced based, small group, game called “Hero’s Journey”?
An engine that struggles with more than 30 players on screen because it was originally designed for instanced based 4-8 man group?
An engine that has such a hard time rendering dynamic shadows that day/night cycles can’t be implemented in its games?
An engine that literally CAN’T make ‘sandbox’ worlds because it’s original intent was instanced based; Thus making open world exploring impossible and the idea of controlled flying travel or “flying mounts” completely and utterly non-existent?
SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT...
After the massive success of open world-free to do as you please Skyrim they’re going to make an Elder Scrolls MMO game with a “theme parked” feel; no sand box open world, no flying mount, small group instance based game that doesn’t even have day/night cycle?
....a medieval style game with not even so much as a day/night cycle? Really?
How many games does the Hero engine have to kill before people stop using it as a game engine?
I don't know why they chose the hero engine, but all i can say is that there has not yet been a successful useage of it, at least one that could be used to positively advertise the thing, its a shame to write off a game while its still in development, but, it is what it is, maybe they got the use of the hero engine at some bargain basement price or something.. can't think of any other reason to use it.
You write like a 12 year old, I very much doubt you know anything about game engines or programming in general.
I agree. Though The Repopulation is looking interesting.
Whats funny is that A&B is doing things with the Hero Engine that Zenimax says is too hard and cant be done right.
I really dont think that Zenimax is using the most updated version as they claim. Zenimax started TESO about the same time as SWTOR.
All indications (screenshots and Dev info) shows it looks and will play very much like SWTOR.
Its like in 2007, the Hero Engine conceived to 2 souless creatures and now in 2012/2013 they are coming to signal the Apocalypse of MMO's
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Already, you can read between the lines and see they're using the same cash-cow, money grab mentallity that killed SW:TOR.
Key terms to look for:
We want everyone to have a good 'gaming experiance' (which means it not a real mmo, nor single player). Trying to please everyone pleases no one.
"No Player Housing"
"PvP" (This should not be a 1st priority in TES)
etc,...
Another "cartoon" 'gaming experiance' is on its way.
http://wyrdblogging.blogspot.com/