Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Death of the keyboard in mmo's....good or bad..

124»

Comments

  • futnatusfutnatus SomeplacePosts: 193Member

    Dual specifically fitted special mice.

     

    Dual wielding ftw.

  • Hopscotch73Hopscotch73 DublinPosts: 971Member

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    Originally posted by dotdotdash


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    (yes, "mouses" is a proper plural form of computer mosue).

    No, it isn't.

    ;)

    Quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse

    "The online Oxford Dictionaries entry for mouse states the plural for the small rodent is mice, while the plural for the small computer connected device is either mice or mouses."

     

    Yes...it is.

    "Mouses" is one of those special plurals that never gained a footing in language as a whole. Someone, somewhere decided we all needed a way (in addition to context) to disambiguate the newfangled (at the time) PC accessory from small rodents.

     

    So they came up with "mouses" - and because the term was actually used (albeit in limited circles) for a while, the OED records it. Records it as being correct alongside "mice", because those lovely philologists at Oxford recognize that language changes and evolves over time.

     

    Saying "mouses" feels both artificial and incorrect (the mouse/mice plural is something learned by most children in kindergarten - that's a tough thing to override), and it turned out that once every computer had a mouse attached to it, context was all people needed to tell whether you were talking about the rodent or the chunk of plastic attached to your PC.

     

    So, when "mouses" is used now, it is generally used as a form of exclusionary argot. As in: "I'm a real computer afficionado, I know the "proper" plural. If you quirk an eyebrow at  my usage of it, then you know less than me".  Ahem.

     

    Not trolling, just a linguist who can't resist slapping down amateur grammarians every now and then.

     

    I'm just sorry no-one ever went with the Mr Jinks version for the plural, because then we'd be arguing about whether "mice" or "meeces" is more correct. That would be a lot more entertaining.

     

    Oh, and on topic - FFXI used joypad controls on a PC, for FFXIV SE expected players to use one too - and ignored poeple complaining about how bad the keyboard controls were during beta. They ended up having to add hardware mouse & keyboard support shortly after launch. Until there is a control option that can actually improve upon the standard mouse/keyboard set-up and prove equally reliable, we'll still be using them.

     

     

     

  • mrhyde1428mrhyde1428 Clovis, NMPosts: 57Member

    Strategic Commander

     

    Remember this?  This was the sh*t back in the day!

    Think I might dig mine out for the next GW2 bwe to see how well it works lawl.

    image

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,686Member Uncommon

    Hopefully we see more games approach hotkeys like TERA (few enough hotkeys for a controller to handle the game) and less like earlier MMORPGs ("More hotkeys means more awesome, right bro?" -Bad Game Designer)

    Hopefully we see more games push the depth which can be achieved with fewer hotkeys (I use even fewer hotkeys in Tribes but the gameplay certainly feels like it takes more to master than TERA.)

    Hopefully we see more players who understand the difference between "eminent" and "imminent". (Unless you really meant "noteworthy" and not "impending")

    But it's doubtful we'll see the death of keyboards anytime soon.  Certainly it won't be replaced by voice commands (a clunky gimmick) and while we'll see a rise in motion controllers I don't know how long it'll be til they fully replace the tacticle functionality of a controller.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,686Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mrhyde1428

    Strategic Commander

    Remember this?  This was the sh*t back in the day!

    Think I might dig mine out for the next GW2 bwe to see how well it works lawl.

    Ugh, I had a hardware beta of one of those while working at Microsoft Games.  As a hardcore RTS player at the time, I felt it was a complete joke and still feel that way about its modern gimmicky counterparts.  

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by dotdotdash

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by dotdotdash


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

     

    Either way, your use of the word "mouses" was clearly intentional, that you may either prove some inherent underlying knowledge above and beyond that of your peers, or so that you could - as you did - prove someone else wrong. In any event the outcome is the same; you demonstrate - to yourself, mostly - "intellectual prowess" and you feel better for it.

    A frivolous endeavour, if ever there was one.

    ;D

    You sure this isn't what you're doing here? What would cause you to come up with such an assumption? Has the fact that you were corrected when trying to correct someone else hurt your pride? Are you attempting to salvage said pride with this post? Notice, unlike you, I'm asking, not accusing.

    I used the term "mouses" because thats what I call them. Both terms are rather frequently used as far as my experience goes, yet I've had people try to "correct" me in the past, which caused me to actually look it up one day, discovering that both are acceptable. So I made mention that it is, in fact, accepted in an attempt to avoid the "no it's not" comments...which obviously failed.

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    keyboards will just be replaced by touch screen pads.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by rungard
    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.
    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's
    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?
     


    A mouse and joystick combo? Who's going to pay for the third arm that everyone will need to have grafted into their anatomy? I feel I should note that I'm all for this, though I'd want an extra set of arms for symmetry, but I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime.

    Gestures? The systems are far too primitive to take over anytime soon. I don't see those systems giving users 56 discrete gestures, on top of movement any time soon. Or ever if the expectation is that gamers will learn 56 discrete hand gestures (that the Kinect can't recognize yet). I think it's possible a direct brain - computer interface will exist before gesture recognition replaces a keyboard or even a joystick in a wide range of games.

    The only likely replacement is going to be Joystick plus Voice Chat. That's a maybe though. Joysticks have existed for years and so has voice chat. Keyboard/mouse/voice is still widely used. As long as the PC is the driver for this type of thing, that isn't likely to change.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by mrhyde1428
    Strategic Commander
     
    Remember this?  This was the sh*t back in the day!
    Think I might dig mine out for the next GW2 bwe to see how well it works lawl.


    I've taken one of these and replaced the guts with some programmable micro-controllers to give keyboard input instead of joystick input. The next step is replacing the 8 buttons on the front with 18 buttons. I really wish someone would come up with something that has the movement control of the Strategic Commander, combined with the buttons of the Logitech G-13 so I wouldn't have to build this thing from scratch.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     




    Originally posted by mrhyde1428

    Strategic Commander

     

    Remember this?  This was the sh*t back in the day!

    Think I might dig mine out for the next GW2 bwe to see how well it works lawl.








    I've taken one of these and replaced the guts with some programmable micro-controllers to give keyboard input instead of joystick input. The next step is replacing the 8 buttons on the front with 18 buttons. I really wish someone would come up with something that has the movement control of the Strategic Commander, combined with the buttons of the Logitech G-13 so I wouldn't have to build this thing from scratch.

     

    ill take one.

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Tempe, AZPosts: 1,036Member

    Originally posted by Hopscotch73

    Originally posted by FrostWyrm


    Originally posted by dotdotdash


    Originally posted by FrostWyrm

    (yes, "mouses" is a proper plural form of computer mosue).

    No, it isn't.

    ;)

    Quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse

    "The online Oxford Dictionaries entry for mouse states the plural for the small rodent is mice, while the plural for the small computer connected device is either mice or mouses."

     

    Yes...it is.

    "Mouses" is one of those special plurals that never gained a footing in language as a whole. Someone, somewhere decided we all needed a way (in addition to context) to disambiguate the newfangled (at the time) PC accessory from small rodents.

     

    So they came up with "mouses" - and because the term was actually used (albeit in limited circles) for a while, the OED records it. Records it as being correct alongside "mice", because those lovely philologists at Oxford recognize that language changes and evolves over time.

     

    Saying "mouses" feels both artificial and incorrect (the mouse/mice plural is something learned by most children in kindergarten - that's a tough thing to override), and it turned out that once every computer had a mouse attached to it, context was all people needed to tell whether you were talking about the rodent or the chunk of plastic attached to your PC.

     Thats just what I've called them since I was a teenager. It may feel that way because you're used to using "mice" to describe the animal.

    So, when "mouses" is used now, it is generally used as a form of exclusionary argot. As in: "I'm a real computer afficionado, I know the "proper" plural. If you quirk an eyebrow at  my usage of it, then you know less than me".  Ahem.

     I can assure you that wasn't my intention.

    Not trolling, just a linguist who can't resist slapping down amateur grammarians every now and then.

     There's nothing to "slap down" really. I'm not even sure why this became such a big deal. Not sure why anyone would think someone is trying to show off for using a word that they themselves dont hear often. To attack someone with baseless accusations accorngly...it just doesn't make sense to me.

    I'm just sorry no-one ever went with the Mr Jinks version for the plural, because then we'd be arguing about whether "mice" or "meeces" is more correct. That would be a lot more entertaining.

     

    Oh, and on topic - FFXI used joypad controls on a PC, for FFXIV SE expected players to use one too - and ignored poeple complaining about how bad the keyboard controls were during beta. They ended up having to add hardware mouse & keyboard support shortly after launch. Until there is a control option that can actually improve upon the standard mouse/keyboard set-up and prove equally reliable, we'll still be using them.

     I liked the gamepad controls for FFXI. Even though I played on PC, I bought a PS2 Dual Shock controller adapter and played using that. It was because the game released simultaneously on PC and PS2, they wanted a control scheme that both could use well.

    I use an Xbox 360 controller to play FFXIV on my PC today also.

    As far as voice chat replacing keyboard input...as long as people like their anonymity, this will never happen. Women in particular dont always want the world to know they're women because of the way MMO players typically react when they find out. Accents would also present a pretty large communication barrier as well.

     

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member

    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    Personally I prefer to use a mouse like a "Naga" and use the keys on the mouse for everything. I only use "WASD" on the keyboard. That way my fingers can stay on the WASD keys 100% of the time. At least if I try to do serious PvP it works much better for me to play like that. I will move like a bag of potatoes if I try to use 15-20 keys on the keyboard. Using my mouse and right hand for everything helps me play much better.

    I guess I could use a joystick instead of "WASD" if I wanted. The keyboard is not very essential for me. Most important is to have a mouse with a zillion buttons... And using my voice instead of typing is also fine.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Remember Virtual Reality?  Gonna change gaming forever, no rly.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Arathir86Arathir86 CanberraPosts: 442Member Uncommon

    I came expecting an Article worthwhile reading, instead its just a guy who says "I think keyboard will become obsolete" without anything to support his claim or to start an intellectual discussion with...

    "The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    I think that something like this happening is farther off than you could imagine. The keyboard + mouse offer precision and flexibility that simply can't be comfortably matched by anything else yet. What is more likely to happen is that keyboards will simply evolve. 

    I'm hoping someone takes Cue's from Wolfking and come out with another Wolfking Timberwolf style Keyboard or even a Warrior pad. 

    I'd actually like to see something like the Wolfking Timberwolf and the Warrior pad with mechanical keys.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    I dont think that will be the case at all..

    The keyboard and mouse combo wil be aronud for a very very long time..

    I am sure the same thing was said when console controllers got popular but it never happened. Voice commands and gestures are just a gimmik really.

    Mosue and Joystick combo? i think that would be terrible but i guess we all like different things lol some people actually like using gamepads for fps games LOL..

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    Wishfull thinking...

    There are too many situations where voice is a no go as an input (I am speaking in social terms, not technical) and gestures is a far way off being the ultimate input.

    Mouse/keyboard combo is not going anywhere anytime soon.

  • calranthecalranthe stoke on trentPosts: 356Member

    Since the 80's people have been calling out the death of the pc OR death of the keyboard.

    I have myself tried the following

    Wii, not bad for sports games works quite well for bowling and sports based fighting, coming from a pc mouse/keyboard fps I found the wii fps controls to be cumbersome and inaccurate, main problem was lack of feedback.

    £60 + kinect, once again not bad for sports games but not too good for anything else.

     

    With me the main problems are

    Games that you need to walk and do actions with does not translate well to standing still or running on the spot.

    accuracy keyboard and mouse is so genre defining, maybe next generation of people brought up on something other than keyboard and mouse.

     

    My keyboard and mouse just have become completely natural to what I wish to do, I do use the 360 controller for racing games though.

    When I sit at my computer my hads naturally fall on the keyboard and mouse it not even a concious effort.

    Voice and action controllers tap into a completely different part of the mind, games would have to change so much, imagine trying to do all the repeatable actions in a modern mmo, imagine trying to play an mmo in a family living room if it is voice or action motivated.

     

    Give it 10 years minimum.

     

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member

    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    I dont think that will be the case at all..

    The keyboard and mouse combo wil be aronud for a very very long time..

    I am sure the same thing was said when console controllers got popular but it never happened. Voice commands and gestures are just a gimmik really.

    Mosue and Joystick combo? i think that would be terrible but i guess we all like different things lol some people actually like using gamepads for fps games LOL..



    You can learn how to use mouse and joystick. Or how to use buttons on the mouse for almost everything. You need to practice and train until it feels normal to play like that. For people like me that are very "right handed" it is better. My ability to learn how to find buttons fast is much better for my right hand. And also hand-eye coordination. I would not be able to hold a pen in my left hand and write a word if my life depended on it. Or tie my shoes with my left hand only.  People like that should find a play style that makes it possible to use the mouse and right hand as much as possible. People that can be good at using both hands dont understand how it feels to be "right handed" in that extreme way.

    People are different and prefer different controls when they play. Its good if there are a lot of options so everyone can find something that works.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member

    Originally posted by Hurvart

    Originally posted by Caldrin


    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    I dont think that will be the case at all..

    The keyboard and mouse combo wil be aronud for a very very long time..

    I am sure the same thing was said when console controllers got popular but it never happened. Voice commands and gestures are just a gimmik really.

    Mosue and Joystick combo? i think that would be terrible but i guess we all like different things lol some people actually like using gamepads for fps games LOL..



    You can learn how to use mouse and joystick. Or how to use buttons on the mouse for almost everything. You need to practice and train until it feels normal to play like that. For people like me that are very "right handed" it is better. My ability to learn how to find buttons fast is much better for my right hand. And also hand-eye coordination. I would not be able to hold a pen in my left hand and write a word if my life depended on it. Or tie my shoes with my left hand only.  People like that should find a play style that makes it possible to use the mouse and right hand as much as possible. People that can be good at using both hands dont understand how it feels to be "right handed" in that extreme way.

    People are different and prefer different controls when they play. Its good if there are a lot of options so everyone can find something that works.

    I actually heard about this awhile back on the Zbrush forums, it's called the Cybersnipa Gamepad.

    I have used it myself and I recomend it to most lefties. Razer is making a left handed Razer Naga as well and then there is always the Razer Death Adder Left handed addition in the mean time.

    No need to limit yourself by going Joystick + Mouse route when keyboards and gamepads are available even for lefties that offer so much more than what can be done with motion control, joysticks, etc.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,731Member Uncommon

         The end of the keyboard in gaming would be the end of my gaming...I hate voice chat and most of the time I have to be quiet when I am playing anyway.....It seems that the further we go in this industry the more dumbing down and laziness we see.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by rungard


    Originally posted by lizardbones
     



    Originally posted by mrhyde1428
    Strategic Commander
     
    Remember this?  This was the sh*t back in the day!
    Think I might dig mine out for the next GW2 bwe to see how well it works lawl.




    I've taken one of these and replaced the guts with some programmable micro-controllers to give keyboard input instead of joystick input. The next step is replacing the 8 buttons on the front with 18 buttons. I really wish someone would come up with something that has the movement control of the Strategic Commander, combined with the buttons of the Logitech G-13 so I wouldn't have to build this thing from scratch.

     

    ill take one.


    Pffft. I have to actually finish the first one. It's a ridiculous amount of soldering tiny wires to get an array of 12 buttons combined with an array of 6 buttons to all work together. In comparison, getting the micro controller programmed to use the input from the buttons and the pots for axis controls was easy as pie. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be up to building two of them.

    ** edit **
    I forgot the Windows client software to interface with and program the buttons for custom button configs. Compared to wiring up the button arrays, it was easy. So easy in fact, I forgot to mention it in my post up there.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • KorgborgKorgborg waldorf, MDPosts: 116Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones

     












    Pffft. I have to actually finish the first one. It's a ridiculous amount of soldering tiny wires to get an array of 12 buttons combined with an array of 6 buttons to all work together. In comparison, getting the micro controller programmed to use the input from the buttons and the pots for axis controls was easy as pie. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be up to building two of them.



    ** edit **

    I forgot the Windows client software to interface with and program the buttons for custom button configs. Compared to wiring up the button arrays, it was easy. So easy in fact, I forgot to mention it in my post up there.

     

    PSOC? 8051? PIC? 

    I'm jealous and wish I still had the time to play with that stuff.

    If you get this working well   GOODJOB!   image

    ...and post pics! 

    If you cut it too short you can always nail a piece on the end.

    If you cut it too long then what the hell are you gonna do?

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by Hurvart

    Originally posted by Caldrin

    Originally posted by rungard

    its my opinion that the keyboard is going to become obsolete, and everything is going to go to voice and gesture based gaming.

    For mmo's i think the mouse will survive, and i actually think well end up with a mouse and a joystick combo, with voice being used in place of the current ui. I think gestures will be there too but they will take a little bit of a back seat in mmo's

    as someone who is a terrible typer i think this is a great thing coming. What do you think?

     

    I dont think that will be the case at all..

    The keyboard and mouse combo wil be aronud for a very very long time..

    I am sure the same thing was said when console controllers got popular but it never happened. Voice commands and gestures are just a gimmik really.

    Mosue and Joystick combo? i think that would be terrible but i guess we all like different things lol some people actually like using gamepads for fps games LOL..



    You can learn how to use mouse and joystick. Or how to use buttons on the mouse for almost everything. You need to practice and train until it feels normal to play like that. For people like me that are very "right handed" it is better. My ability to learn how to find buttons fast is much better for my right hand. And also hand-eye coordination. I would not be able to hold a pen in my left hand and write a word if my life depended on it. Or tie my shoes with my left hand only.  People like that should find a play style that makes it possible to use the mouse and right hand as much as possible. People that can be good at using both hands dont understand how it feels to be "right handed" in that extreme way.

    People are different and prefer different controls when they play. Its good if there are a lot of options so everyone can find something that works.

    I actually heard about this awhile back on the Zbrush forums, it's called the Cybersnipa Gamepad.

    I have used it myself and I recomend it to most lefties. Razer is making a left handed Razer Naga as well and then there is always the Razer Death Adder Left handed addition in the mean time.

    No need to limit yourself by going Joystick + Mouse route when keyboards and gamepads are available even for lefties that offer so much more than what can be done with motion control, joysticks, etc.

     I saw the gamepad and i might pick that up as well as a naga. I consider the gamepad and joystick type controllers more or less the same, it would not be a traditional keyboard. With bluetooth headsets and a kinnect type device you could probabally use your mouth to "type" so to speak, meaning that you could play the game withou having to type on a keyboard.

    i dont even see that as being farfetched...since you can probabally do it now with the right set up. I guess the question is, would you prefer a keyboard to type into the chat box, or simply speak your text into a chatbox, probabally using one of the programmed buttons to open the chatbox.

     

124»
Sign In or Register to comment.