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General: Introducing the Disgruntled Pony!

MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community ManagerQueens, NYPosts: 5,720Administrator Uncommon

Our resident pony, DarkPony, has started his own blog here at MMORPG.com and we're adding him to our highlighted blogs list!

As a kid of 6 years old I was really happy to get a toy car at my birthday but at 16 years old I would have severely frowned at such a gift to say the least.



To me it seems that what the mmorpg industry is doing (at least the "AAA" branded part of it), is consistently developing the gaming equivalent of toy cars, or dolls, if you will, but not realizing that their audience has grown older, more experienced and more able. Even the younger generations are more proficient and more intelligent gamers compared to us older folks when we had their age.



Then why is it that it seems the industry is mainly catering for inexperienced, juvenile gamers?

Check out his debut entry, "A delayed message for AAA mmorpg developers".

image

Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

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Comments

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Preaching to the choir here.  You have to wonder how so many intelligent people can be so ignorant of what you state.

    The problem is they are making games for the "I want it now" generation.  They don't want challenges in any shape or form, just hurry up and get through the game so they can move on to the next one.  And this stupid developers continue to turn out these lead me by the hand games one after the other.  

    Just take SWTOR for example.  Everyone was lauding it for the hand holding, but now many people are already bored with the game.  Now many of them are moving on to TERA.  Except for graphical differences they are essentially the same game.  By fall TERA will be a ghost town and the developers hastily converting it to a free to play.   SWTOR will remain around a bit longer as the Star Wars theme will entice a few to stick around.

    GW2 is no savior, it is essentially a theme park with a few different angles.  

    It will probably take an outsider from the east to change that thinking.  Like with Archage or another game.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    [mod edit - let's stick to the topic of the blog and not the user!]

     

    WTF!? I was defending the blog

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • EmwynEmwyn MoatshirePosts: 546Member

    Pony... image Thank you for your article. I was talking to my other half today about games. Recent and soon to be released games in particular. I told him I think I forgot to drink the kool-aid or something because I don't see the appeal for the same ole same ole. Or worse, the same ole same ole disguised thinly as something "new". Reading through your article especially the first part, it struck me that I didn't forget to drink the kool-aid at all. I think I've outgrown the kool-aid. I still like games but long for something a bit grittier, a little less cliche and predictable. Funny you mention EVE. I installed it on my freshly built pc last night image

    the poster formerly known as melangel :P

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    <3



    @ Ozmodan: I echo your conclusions.

    [mod edit - no need to defend yourself. let's stay on topic!]

  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by Emwyn

    Pony... image Thank you for your article. I was talking to my other half today about games. Recent and soon to be released games in particular. I told him I think I forgot to drink the kool-aid or something because I don't see the appeal for the same ole same ole. Or worse, the same ole same ole disguised thinly as something "new". Reading through your article especially the first part, it struck me that I didn't forget to drink the kool-aid at all. I think I've outgrown the kool-aid. I still like games but long for something a bit grittier, a little less cliche and predictable. Funny you mention EVE. I installed it on my freshly built pc last night image


     

    Thanks, Em. Hope you like EVE. It has a pretty steep learning curve though, but if you get past it it is very rewarding. Just hang on in there!

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,910Member Uncommon

    As a person who has followed this industry for years now, the answer to the question of why have they killed freedom is quite obvious. I've seen these incidents first hand (been there) watched the fallout (mass bannings). Players have sealed that fate, it's as simple as that.

    I really don't see how a vet can't see that, turning a blind eye to it wasn't the answer, and it's too late for us to go back. The damage has been done, and the pitfalls of player freedom shined through. Players abuse it. That's the problem, and since you can't pre-screen everyone to make sure they're not that type, it is an unfixable problem, one that we've created and allowed to flourish in our communities.

    Play any game that allows freedom today, look at the toxicity that is at play, it's a rather ugly thing. ANd it's 100X worse than it was "back in the day".

    If this were a cheap industry to make it in things wouldn't matter as much in this regard, you can't afford to have players destroying the experience of others in this genre

    Nice blog though Ponyboy!!! ..high five to the staff for showcasing it!image

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • AutemOxAutemOx Fullerton, CAPosts: 1,704Member

    A common misconception I read often is that a game like that can only be a full loot, free for all pvp, sandbox like EVE or Darkfall, but even the area somewhere in between the ends of the spectrum is uncharted territory for AAA developers. And there is much more to be found in sandbox country than just a "ganker's paradise"; extensive building, crafting and rich economies with a myriad of opportunities for trading to name a few things.

    This paragraph was my favorite.  +1.

    Distopia, I sort of think I know what you are going for, but I would enjoy examples because I whole heartedly disagree.  For instance, raph koster had a recent blog post where he mentions that in UO, players used to place furniture at the exits to populated towns so that players could not leave and they could be PKed.  Well, aside from the fact that DarkPony is describing a sandbox where PKs are not necessarily allowed...  Kosters solution to the problem in UO was to make players able to set fire to the furniture to clear the path.

    So why is it in every MMO today we cannot lay furniture or other objects on the ground?  Because someone might write a dirty word with the objects?  A similar argument could and is made with ANY player created content, including public player housing.  We are scared of parents complaining.  We want children playing our MMOs.  That is why.  Which is ridiculous because parents already do complain and players simple use chat to harass children instead of the placement of objects.

    If it were an issue of too many objects crashing the server or getting in players way, then a simple 'burning' fix and a set maximum to objects/town would be sufficient.

    Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon

    I don't agree with much of your analysis or conclusions and I'm an intelligent person, imagine that.

    image
  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    I variously agreed and disagreed, but ultimately, found it to be a love letter to sandboxes, which is fine.  Unfortunately, it didn't address the fundamental problem I have with them and that's that they are built around the concept of players generating the content.  Players SUCK at creating content for other players.  That's why we're players, not developers.  And in most games I've seen, the majority of that content is expressed through creative ways of griefing.  I just don't consider that content by any stretch. 

    Perhaps if more powerful tools were made available to the community to allow them to infuence the gameworld, it would be more worthwhile.  But we don't get those.  Not to the extend that I feel is needed, which is on par with what modders are capable of doing with a single player game like Skyrim.  Unfortunately, that kind of freedom can also run amok because some players are just degenerate asshats and would use them to try and wreck the world, rather than make it more interesting.  And of course, the defenders of the sandbox model would stand by their right to do just that BECAUSE its a sandbox. 

    Basically, developers don't have the balls to do what's necessary to deliver a good sandbox game and players don't have the maturity (even at 37 apparently), not to abuse the power they need to be given to preserve it and drive it forward.

    EDIT:  Almost forgot, best of luck with the blog, Pony.  I'll be following it.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    As you might imagine, I am a big fan of Ralph Koster.  There are varying degrees of sandbox.  Just look at the original SWG.  There was no full loot pvp in that game and it was very successful.  People get too hung up on associating full loot pvp with sandbox and immediately attach a dislike to the word.

    Take the original Asheron's Call for example, no full loot pvp there either, although if you set your pvp flag you would loose some items, yet it was challenging and you could explore to your heart's content.  It is still around too, the dated graphics might be a problem, but it is a still far better game than anything being produced today.

    If you like that fast leveling experience with few challenges along the way then the current environment is perfect for you.  But there are those of us who like a place where we have to figure our own path.   Where the entire world is dangerous if you are not careful not just a few high end zones.

  • killercookiekillercookie duesseldorfPosts: 14Member

    Pony-Werbung ist verboten !

    Just a German insider Joke had to do it :P

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Preaching to the choir here.  You have to wonder how so many intelligent people can be so ignorant of what you state.

    The problem is they are making games for the "I want it now" generation.  They don't want challenges in any shape or form, just hurry up and get through the game so they can move on to the next one.  And this stupid developers continue to turn out these lead me by the hand games one after the other.  

    Just take SWTOR for example.  Everyone was lauding it for the hand holding, but now many people are already bored with the game.  Now many of them are moving on to TERA.  Except for graphical differences they are essentially the same game.  By fall TERA will be a ghost town and the developers hastily converting it to a free to play.   SWTOR will remain around a bit longer as the Star Wars theme will entice a few to stick around.

    GW2 is no savior, it is essentially a theme park with a few different angles.  

    It will probably take an outsider from the east to change that thinking.  Like with Archage or another game.

     

    Since when have you had a list of people's intelligence? I am curious.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,910Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by wormywyrm



    A common misconception I read often is that a game like that can only be a full loot, free for all pvp, sandbox like EVE or Darkfall, but even the area somewhere in between the ends of the spectrum is uncharted territory for AAA developers. And there is much more to be found in sandbox country than just a "ganker's paradise"; extensive building, crafting and rich economies with a myriad of opportunities for trading to name a few things.

    This paragraph was my favorite.  +1.

    Distopia, I sort of think I know what you are going for, but I would enjoy examples because I whole heartedly disagree.  For instance, raph koster had a recent blog post where he mentions that in UO, players used to place furniture at the exits to populated towns so that players could not leave and they could be PKed.  Well, aside from the fact that DarkPony is describing a sandbox where PKs are not necessarily allowed...  Kosters solution to the problem in UO was to make players able to set fire to the furniture to clear the path.

    So why is it in every MMO today we cannot lay furniture or other objects on the ground?  Because someone might write a dirty word with the objects?  A similar argument could and is made with ANY player created content, including public player housing.  We are scared of parents complaining.  We want children playing our MMOs.  That is why.  Which is ridiculous because parents already do complain and players simple use chat to harass children instead of the placement of objects.

    If it were an issue of too many objects crashing the server or getting in players way, then a simple 'burning' fix and a set maximum to objects/town would be sufficient.

    It's funny that you mention item placement, because that is one set of incidents in SWG I was talking about. I guess they never learned from Koster's fix in UO for that, because it happened quite a bit, and the only solution was to contact a GM.

    But it's not just that, it's everything players had done over those years. Exploiting open dungeons despite multiple warnings about it from GM's, griefing of any kind be it clone camping ( in games where death mattered this was a pain in the ass). Ganking newbs etc..

    In games where this stuff is possible it's always abused.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Pony, please stop mining my brain for your articles!
  • DarkPonyDarkPony RotterdamPosts: 5,566Member

    Originally posted by RefMinor

    Pony, please stop mining my brain for your articles!

     

    Shush ... sit still and don't talk while I place these electrodes on your exposed frontal cortex, Ref. ;-)

    Thanks for all the replies guys <3

     

     

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 613Member Uncommon

    Congratulations for having your own space here and good luck with your blog Pony! Loved the first entry.

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by DarkPony



    And there is much more to be found in sandbox country than just a "ganker's paradise"; extensive building, crafting and rich economies with a myriad of opportunities for trading to name a few things.

    Snore snore snore snore SNORE!

    The more time I spend on this forum, the more I'm convinced that what sandboxers really want is a better version of the The Sims Online with swords.

     

    I really hope we get out of this whole "Sandbox vs. Themepark" battle as well, because there's a lot more opportunity out there, and both sandbox and themepark games are fecal matter.

     

    Oh, and welcome :)

     

     

     

    image
  • TruthXHurtsTruthXHurts El Do, KSPosts: 1,555Member

    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    I don't agree with much of your analysis or conclusions and I'm an intelligent person, imagine that.

    Do you have some sort of proof? In my experience the only people who claim to be intelligent are usually complete morons. 

     

    "When I left him, I reasoned thus with myself: I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know."

    "I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon

    <3 for pony! the new resident celebrity!

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Preaching to the choir here.  You have to wonder how so many intelligent people can be so ignorant of what you state.

    The problem is they are making games for the "I want it now" generation.  They don't want challenges in any shape or form, just hurry up and get through the game so they can move on to the next one.  And this stupid developers continue to turn out these lead me by the hand games one after the other.  

    Just take SWTOR for example.  Everyone was lauding it for the hand holding, but now many people are already bored with the game.  Now many of them are moving on to TERA.  Except for graphical differences they are essentially the same game.  By fall TERA will be a ghost town and the developers hastily converting it to a free to play.   SWTOR will remain around a bit longer as the Star Wars theme will entice a few to stick around.

    GW2 is no savior, it is essentially a theme park with a few different angles.  

    It will probably take an outsider from the east to change that thinking.  Like with Archage or another game.

     

    Since when have you had a list of people's intelligence? I am curious.

    Actually that was in reference to the development studios, I am making the assumption they are fairly intelligent to code such games.

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    I'm just waiting and praying ArcheAge comes to the NA. It looks like the perfect blend of a themepark plus sandbox game. Guild Wars 2 will be the game that gets me through all the waiting... Imagine that.

    Smile

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by MikeB

    Our resident pony, DarkPony, has started his own blog here at MMORPG.com and we're adding him to our highlighted blogs list!

    As a kid of 6 years old I was really happy to get a toy car at my birthday but at 16 years old I would have severely frowned at such a gift to say the least.



    To me it seems that what the mmorpg industry is doing (at least the "AAA" branded part of it), is consistently developing the gaming equivalent of toy cars, or dolls, if you will, but not realizing that their audience has grown older, more experienced and more able. Even the younger generations are more proficient and more intelligent gamers compared to us older folks when we had their age.



    Then why is it that it seems the industry is mainly catering for inexperienced, juvenile gamers?

    Check out his debut entry, "A delayed message for AAA mmorpg developers".

    image

    This pony scares me.

    image

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    The answer is as simple as this THE PLAYERS have played games and added 3rd party apps that have just told the developers thats how they want to play. All the 3rd party apps like quest helpers, more detailed maps, DPS metres, game wiki's etc... Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality.

     

    So all you can really do is enjoy modern MMO's for what they are or support the Indie Industry, this is what I do with music, I buy 80% from small independant record labels and there are thousands of music lovers like me so the indie music industry is stronger than ever. But yes I know indie MMO's are poor quality but without your support they'll stay that way. Also you can support these guys with things other than money try to help out in other ways thats how the Linux industry grew to the size it is today and starting to compete with Microsoft and Apple, start supporting and stop bleating on forums about an industry thats doesn't have you in their sights anymore and help the guys that want the same things as you do. 

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • SythionSythion Salem, ORPosts: 422Member

    Originally posted by Calerxes

     Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality

    That's not true. Players will both look up in the informaiton online and figure it out themselves. Don't assume that just because some people will skip content that the content has no value.

     

    image
  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by Sythion

    Originally posted by Calerxes

     Players always find the path of least resistence in games and that shows the dev's that players want a linear world and this will happen to the lauded GW2 most players will not explore to find the skill point challenges or hidden Dynamic Events they will look them up on a wiki like players in SW:TOR do for the Datacron positions and Codex's you are really swimming upstream with a liking for open worlds where you have to find objectives or make your own and here's where I get to the moderm MMO cliche, you are not the market modern games are aimed at its a bitter pill to swallow but thats the reality

    That's not true. Players will both look up in the informaiton online and figure it out themselves. Don't assume that just because some people will skip content that the content has no value.

     

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

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