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Combat: TERA v. GW2. Your thoughts?

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  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    What's with the Tera vs GW2 rivalry all of a sudden?

    I don't remember this a week ago.

    Turning GW2 vs Tera into a "featured article" probably didn't help.

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Originally posted by Charlizzard

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    What's with the Tera vs GW2 rivalry all of a sudden?

    I don't remember this a week ago.

    Turning GW2 vs Tera into a "featured article" probably didn't help.

    Ahh, so the editors of the website are trolling now. I wonder if they infract themselves.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,778Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by helthros

    Originally posted by Infeareal


    Originally posted by Sikhander


    Originally posted by Infeareal

     



    Owned heh. I saw the pockett video and she was facing the target she was firing at like 5% of the time. That's when I knew I wouldn't like the GW2 combat, but oh well I'll get to play a friends account next BWE to see for myself. After TERA, I simply can't do tab-targets again. Think it's hilarious how people are still trying to tell you that you're wrong.

     

    There's one thing I want to test for myself which I haven't been able to confirm through videos. It seems like melee auto-turns in the direction of their target when they activate some skills (like the shield charge/bash thing from a warrior in a video someone post a few pages back). ( 4:01 there) Notice how his charge changes direction to meet his target - LAME.

    Also one last thing - Is there really no mana or resource management? I loved the way GW1 handled mana and mana regen.

    Cut from Ten Ton Hammer; 

    "Guild Wars 2 eliminates the tab-target-auto-attack scenario and challenges you to think on your feet (or think off your feet if you’re downed but not dead). For starters, tactical positioning matters in Guild Wars 2--you’ll have to dodge, block, flank and use other maneuvers to be the most effective in combat. Not only that, but you’ll be able to play off other characters engaged in the same fight"

    Still Hilarious?

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon

    I like both games but I think I like Teras combat bit better,tho I miss the auto target thing here:-)

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by helthros

    Originally posted by Infeareal


    Originally posted by Sikhander


    Originally posted by Infeareal

    We did thte same style of poll for our mutli-genre gaming group (we have been gaming for 13 years together) but the poll was simpler option 1  or option 2. We were trying to decide were we would focus for the next while. 213 votes 209 were for tera and 4 for GW2 combat. We like to focus on PvP and we keep the irrational fanboy/girl stuff out. Just combat nothing else and highlighted was 4 videos two of tera and two of GW2 PvP as performed by 2 of our top facemelters.

    For PvE I would understand - people have different preferences. But for PvP? GW2's combat + combat system is designed with PvP in mind to a very large degree. So far I have not seen anything close to advanced in the way abilities are designed in Tera that makes PvP interesting.

    Edit: And just stop the tab targetting stuff. It is wrong. Ranged attacks are not homing in GW2. At least base the discussion on facts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YxOeRyboxA  3:01 in that video and the next 10 seconds clearly shows it. The elementalist and the arrows comming from behind him are both locked and homing. Hrmmmmm facts is facts



    Owned heh. I saw the pockett video and she was facing the target she was firing at like 5% of the time. That's when I knew I wouldn't like the GW2 combat, but oh well I'll get to play a friends account next BWE to see for myself. After TERA, I simply can't do tab-targets again. Think it's hilarious how people are still trying to tell you that you're wrong.

     

    There's one thing I want to test for myself which I haven't been able to confirm through videos. It seems like melee auto-turns in the direction of their target when they activate some skills (like the shield charge/bash thing from a warrior in a video someone post a few pages back). ( 4:01 there) Notice how his charge changes direction to meet his target - LAME.

    Also one last thing - Is there really no mana or resource management? I loved the way GW1 handled mana and mana regen.

    Clearly sending a curved fireball is in violation of the the laws of magic fireball physics.

    Likewise a warrior charge is defined as charching in a straight line and any deviation of that straight line is unreal - cheetas pursuing impalas and impalas fleeing cheetas also only move in a straight line. (Sure it isn't user controlled - that would be more fun and skillful, but in tera you also move in a fixed path when you use a skill).

    If one has problems with curving magic projectiles, shouldn't one have problems with it being a magic projectile in the first place?

    Or shouldn't one have problems on how can swing swords 2 or 3 times longer than the user? Or the fact that actions root one to the ground? Or the fact that even though you have to aim using a reticle you are still aiming a hitbox?

    In my opinion both Tera and GW2 are changing the combat by making it more active and dynamic - one does that using a reticle aiming system, the other does it by using a fluid combat where one can do actions while moving and there is no target requirement for the skill to go off.

     

    About resource management - energy, mana, rage is basically another timer on top of the cooldown timer and all save the same purpose of reducing same skill usage which lead to rotations.

    GW2 breaks away from the rotations - the weapon skill 1 could as well be your left mouse button since it serves mostly the same purpose of the left mouse button on an FPS.

    All the other skills have cooldowns and the management of resources isn't multiple timers management (they have the cooldown timer and some skills have different timers like the warriors adrenaline or thief initiative) but cost/opportunity

    management - some skills are best used at long range, others at point blank, others can be used as an escape or damage or chasing mechanism, other can be used to block or maybe gain adrenaline or some boon if there is no block, etc.

    It is just different resources than usual but the skills aren't generic or have only one purpose - when you use your skill to do X you are passing the opportunity of using it to do Y instead.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,778Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by helthros


     

    Clearly sending a curved fireball is in violation of the the laws of magic fireball physics.

    Likewise a warrior charge is defined as charching in a straight line and any deviation of that straight line is unreal - cheetas pursuing impalas and impalas fleeing cheetas also only move in a straight line. (Sure it isn't user controlled - that would be more fun and skillful, but in tera you also move in a fixed path when you use a skill).

    If one has problems with curving magic projectiles, shouldn't one have problems with it being a magic projectile in the first place?

    Or shouldn't one have problems on how can swing swords 2 or 3 times longer than the user? Or the fact that actions root one to the ground? Or the fact that even though you have to aim using a reticle you are still aiming a hitbox?

    In my opinion both Tera and GW2 are changing the combat by making it more active and dynamic - one does that using a reticle aiming system, the other does it by using a fluid combat where one can do actions while moving and there is no target requirement for the skill to go off.

     

    About resource management - energy, mana, rage is basically another timer on top of the cooldown timer and all save the same purpose of reducing same skill usage which lead to rotations.

    GW2 breaks away from the rotations - the weapon skill 1 could as well be your left mouse button since it serves mostly the same purpose of the left mouse button on an FPS.

    All the other skills have cooldowns and the management of resources isn't multiple timers management (they have the cooldown timer and some skills have different timers like the warriors adrenaline or thief initiative) but cost/opportunity

    management - some skills are best used at long range, others at point blank, others can be used as an escape or damage or chasing mechanism, other can be used to block or maybe gain adrenaline or some boon if there is no block, etc.

    It is just different resources than usual but the skills aren't generic or have only one purpose - when you use your skill to do X you are passing the opportunity of using it to do Y instead.

    Thank you! Might I use your GW2 targeting analogy on other posts I find from Tera fans?  Every other post is about tab-targeting! I wish both sides would read about the games before posting rumors or clueless comments.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    Originally posted by Charlizzard


    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    What's with the Tera vs GW2 rivalry all of a sudden?

    I don't remember this a week ago.

    Turning GW2 vs Tera into a "featured article" probably didn't help.

    Ahh, so the editors of the website are trolling now. I wonder if they infract themselves.

    No, it's perfectly fine when they do it because one editor picked GW2 and one picked Tera *rolls eyes*

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Amjoco

     

    Thank you! Might I use your GW2 targeting analogy on other posts I find from Tera fans?  Every other post is about tab-targeting! I wish both sides would read about the games before posting rumors or clueless comments.

    Sure.

    I don't understand what is the thing about Tera vs GW2, especially concerning combat.

    I wold love an mmo that would combine the aiming crosshair of Tera+ GW2 movement freedom.

    Both combat systems require skill and are fun to play.

    I'm not going to be playing Tera for 2 reasons - subscription (no point paying when there are games just as good or better without them) and out of combat stuff like questing (for my tastes GW2 world is apparently superior)

    But we (at least I do) definetly are needing mmorpgs that have action combat and I don't think the combat will be the main factor deciding between GW2 and Tera for most people  -  both games will give a more lively, albeit different, combat.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by helthros


    Originally posted by Infeareal


    Originally posted by Sikhander


    Originally posted by Infeareal

    We did thte same style of poll for our mutli-genre gaming group (we have been gaming for 13 years together) but the poll was simpler option 1  or option 2. We were trying to decide were we would focus for the next while. 213 votes 209 were for tera and 4 for GW2 combat. We like to focus on PvP and we keep the irrational fanboy/girl stuff out. Just combat nothing else and highlighted was 4 videos two of tera and two of GW2 PvP as performed by 2 of our top facemelters.

    For PvE I would understand - people have different preferences. But for PvP? GW2's combat + combat system is designed with PvP in mind to a very large degree. So far I have not seen anything close to advanced in the way abilities are designed in Tera that makes PvP interesting.

    Edit: And just stop the tab targetting stuff. It is wrong. Ranged attacks are not homing in GW2. At least base the discussion on facts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YxOeRyboxA  3:01 in that video and the next 10 seconds clearly shows it. The elementalist and the arrows comming from behind him are both locked and homing. Hrmmmmm facts is facts



    Owned heh. I saw the pockett video and she was facing the target she was firing at like 5% of the time. That's when I knew I wouldn't like the GW2 combat, but oh well I'll get to play a friends account next BWE to see for myself. After TERA, I simply can't do tab-targets again. Think it's hilarious how people are still trying to tell you that you're wrong.

     

    There's one thing I want to test for myself which I haven't been able to confirm through videos. It seems like melee auto-turns in the direction of their target when they activate some skills (like the shield charge/bash thing from a warrior in a video someone post a few pages back). ( 4:01 there) Notice how his charge changes direction to meet his target - LAME.

    Also one last thing - Is there really no mana or resource management? I loved the way GW1 handled mana and mana regen.

    Clearly sending a curved fireball is in violation of the the laws of magic fireball physics.

    Why even go there? You just sound childish. Sending a curved fireball that you didn't aim at all isn't in violation of anything, if you're into tab-targetting.

    Likewise a warrior charge is defined as charching in a straight line and any deviation of that straight line is unreal - cheetas pursuing impalas and impalas fleeing cheetas also only move in a straight line. (Sure it isn't user controlled - that would be more fun and skillful, but in tera you also move in a fixed path when you use a skill).

    Again, completely ignoring what I meant by the comment. I don't care if moving outside of a straight line is part of the skill. However, a move automatically directing your path to the target is another sign of tab-targetting. My problem isn't what's happening, it's how you go about getting there. Press tab, press 2 to charge, you end up at the enemy, regardless of whether they side-step or not. In TERA, if you use a charge skill, and you were aiming in the wrong direction, you will end up even further away.

    If one has problems with curving magic projectiles, shouldn't one have problems with it being a magic projectile in the first place?

    Digging deep man...

    Or shouldn't one have problems on how can swing swords 2 or 3 times longer than the user? Or the fact that actions root one to the ground? Or the fact that even though you have to aim using a reticle you are still aiming a hitbox?

    I want you to show me in what world people can bunny hop circling around someone swinging ANY weapon with precision. I want you to show me the archer that runs around at max speed, changing directions on a dime, while delivering pin-point shots. I want you to swing a two-handed axe and show me that you can do so without any kind of recovery. I can keep going on but I hope you get the picture. I hear Spartans held out the Persians because they knew how to bunny hop and circle strafe.

    I'm sure the problem with ranged being able to kite the hell out of melee in this game has nothing to do with lack of movement limitations. Combat in GW2 (and other tab-targetting MMO's) reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM4O4-jT3x0 . The animations don't matter, they're just there for show. It's all about having your hitbox within the right range to be able to activate one of your skills - The swings your characters make might as well not even be there.

    In my opinion both Tera and GW2 are changing the combat by making it more active and dynamic - one does that using a reticle aiming system, the other does it by using a fluid combat where one can do actions while moving and there is no target requirement for the skill to go off.

    Being able to move on command just makes things easier. There's no thought behind it - Hell you can even go through your enemy to be instantly behind them - Skill.

    About resource management - energy, mana, rage is basically another timer on top of the cooldown timer and all save the same purpose of reducing same skill usage which lead to rotations.

    GW2 breaks away from the rotations - the weapon skill 1 could as well be your left mouse button since it serves mostly the same purpose of the left mouse button on an FPS.

    All the other skills have cooldowns and the management of resources isn't multiple timers management (they have the cooldown timer and some skills have different timers like the warriors adrenaline or thief initiative) but cost/opportunity

    management - some skills are best used at long range, others at point blank, others can be used as an escape or damage or chasing mechanism, other can be used to block or maybe gain adrenaline or some boon if there is no block, etc.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, so only some skills have a resource to go by? Cause, it seems like 80% of the skills are just using them on cooldown with little drawback (other than the cooldown that is).

    It is just different resources than usual but the skills aren't generic or have only one purpose - when you use your skill to do X you are passing the opportunity of using it to do Y instead.

     

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    there are like 3 or more active posts of the same GW2 vs TERA.

    COME ON!!! can we plz stop it already. everyone already said everything they want now its just getting freaking repetitive.

    THANK YOU

    image

  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by Amjoco


     

    Thank you! Might I use your GW2 targeting analogy on other posts I find from Tera fans?  Every other post is about tab-targeting! I wish both sides would read about the games before posting rumors or clueless comments.

    Sure.

    I don't understand what is the thing about Tera vs GW2, especially concerning combat.

    I wold love an mmo that would combine the aiming crosshair of Tera+ GW2 movement freedom.

    Both combat systems require skill and are fun to play.

    I'm not going to be playing Tera for 2 reasons - subscription (no point paying when there are games just as good or better without them) and out of combat stuff like questing (for my tastes GW2 world is apparently superior)

    But we (at least I do) definetly are needing mmorpgs that have action combat and I don't think the combat will be the main factor deciding between GW2 and Tera for most people  -  both games will give a more lively, albeit different, combat.

     

    I'm sorry that you don't understand why you need the 'animation-lock' for this kind of combat. Honestly, it's one of my favorite features in the game. If you attack, you leave yourself vulnerable. The way it usually works is the stronger attacks have a bigger drawback. Even boxers and MMA fighters, with all their quickness, are vulnerable when they throw haymakers. I don't know why it's so hard for some video gamers to understand the trade-off.

    I know that constant movement can be fun because it provides more of an 'arcade' feel to it, but the way TERA does it just adds another level of strategy.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by helthros

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Clearly sending a curved fireball is in violation of the the laws of magic fireball physics.

    Why even go there? You just sound childish. Sending a curved fireball that you didn't aim at all isn't in violation of anything, if you're into tab-targetting.

    Likewise a warrior charge is defined as charching in a straight line and any deviation of that straight line is unreal - cheetas pursuing impalas and impalas fleeing cheetas also only move in a straight line. (Sure it isn't user controlled - that would be more fun and skillful, but in tera you also move in a fixed path when you use a skill).

    Again, completely ignoring what I meant by the comment. I don't care if moving outside of a straight line is part of the skill. However, a move automatically directing your path to the target is another sign of tab-targetting. My problem isn't what's happening, it's how you go about getting there. Press tab, press 2 to charge, you end up at the enemy, regardless of whether they side-step or not. In TERA, if you use a charge skill, and you were aiming in the wrong direction, you will end up even further away.

    If one has problems with curving magic projectiles, shouldn't one have problems with it being a magic projectile in the first place?

    Digging deep man...

    Or shouldn't one have problems on how can swing swords 2 or 3 times longer than the user? Or the fact that actions root one to the ground? Or the fact that even though you have to aim using a reticle you are still aiming a hitbox?

    I want you to show me in what world people can bunny hop circling around someone swinging ANY weapon with precision. I want you to show me the archer that runs around at max speed, changing directions on a dime, while delivering pin-point shots. I want you to swing a two-handed axe and show me that you can do so without any kind of recovery. I can keep going on but I hope you get the picture. I hear Spartans held out the Persians because they knew how to bunny hop and circle strafe.

    I'm sure the problem with ranged being able to kite the hell out of melee in this game has nothing to do with lack of movement limitations. Combat in GW2 (and other tab-targetting MMO's) reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM4O4-jT3x0 . The animations don't matter, they're just there for show. It's all about having your hitbox within the right range to be able to activate one of your skills - The swings your characters make might as well not even be there.

    In my opinion both Tera and GW2 are changing the combat by making it more active and dynamic - one does that using a reticle aiming system, the other does it by using a fluid combat where one can do actions while moving and there is no target requirement for the skill to go off.

    Being able to move on command just makes things easier. There's no thought behind it - Hell you can even go through your enemy to be instantly behind them - Skill.

    About resource management - energy, mana, rage is basically another timer on top of the cooldown timer and all save the same purpose of reducing same skill usage which lead to rotations.

    GW2 breaks away from the rotations - the weapon skill 1 could as well be your left mouse button since it serves mostly the same purpose of the left mouse button on an FPS.

    All the other skills have cooldowns and the management of resources isn't multiple timers management (they have the cooldown timer and some skills have different timers like the warriors adrenaline or thief initiative) but cost/opportunity

    management - some skills are best used at long range, others at point blank, others can be used as an escape or damage or chasing mechanism, other can be used to block or maybe gain adrenaline or some boon if there is no block, etc.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, so only some skills have a resource to go by? Cause, it seems like 80% of the skills are just using them on cooldown with little drawback (other than the cooldown that is).

    It is just different resources than usual but the skills aren't generic or have only one purpose - when you use your skill to do X you are passing the opportunity of using it to do Y instead.

     

    One can tab-target, click on the enemy or shoot at their direction - yes, GW2 isn't requiring aiming skills.

    About real world combat - it is a game that isn't trying to be a simulator or real life combat and neither is Tera. Gaming skill is about using the game tools and mechanics.

    Actually in GW2 you don't need to be in range to activate your skills - your skills will activate without a target, maybe because GW2 isn't a strictly tab-target mmo. If you walk in front of my arrow, fireball or the arc of my sword you get hit.

    Likewise if you hide behind an object, dodge or change movement direction the attacks will miss - yes the tab targetting doesn't guarantee a hit with the arrow if the target that was moving to the left abruptly changes direction to the right.

    As it has been said before it is an hybrid system - sometimes works as a tab system and other works as Tera, relying on aligning weapon hitbox with enemy hitbox..

    Actually you can't go through someone that is your target.

    Since both you and your enemies can keep moving there can be actually more thought since you have to predict where he goes next to keep on him.

    Skills are cooldown only, some profession specific mechanics introduce additional resources.

    But again, you don't have a ton of skills at your disposal at any given time and your "1" skill is a reliable damage source with really low cooldown, so wasting other skills abilities at the wrong time meansyour options are severily reduced.

    Additionally everyone has to manage their endurance resource (resource used for dodging) and their swap weapon cooldown.

    Actually the Ranged vs Melee is mostly PvE debate (and WvW in big mobs), so it isn't about kiting ad nauseum. People die to easy in melee because the damn PvE mobs can be actually though and if you stand there tab targetting all happy you die.

    Ranged has it easier, but they deal much less damage, so once you start to get the feel for GW2 melee, they kill so much faster it isn't fun.

    In PvP there are enough tools to make the ranged vs melee balanced.

    I hope this help clearing out some misconceptions people have about GW2 mechanics.

     

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Ypsilanti, MIPosts: 1,270Member
    All the people saying GW2 combat is amazing and innovative must have never played AoC. Being able to attack without a target doesnt make a game not tab target. If you want to hit an enemy in a pack on gw2, u tab target them. In Tera, you aim your attack at them.
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by helthros

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter


    Originally posted by Amjoco


     

    Thank you! Might I use your GW2 targeting analogy on other posts I find from Tera fans?  Every other post is about tab-targeting! I wish both sides would read about the games before posting rumors or clueless comments.

    Sure.

    I don't understand what is the thing about Tera vs GW2, especially concerning combat.

    I wold love an mmo that would combine the aiming crosshair of Tera+ GW2 movement freedom.

    Both combat systems require skill and are fun to play.

    I'm not going to be playing Tera for 2 reasons - subscription (no point paying when there are games just as good or better without them) and out of combat stuff like questing (for my tastes GW2 world is apparently superior)

    But we (at least I do) definetly are needing mmorpgs that have action combat and I don't think the combat will be the main factor deciding between GW2 and Tera for most people  -  both games will give a more lively, albeit different, combat.

     

    I'm sorry that you don't understand why you need the 'animation-lock' for this kind of combat. Honestly, it's one of my favorite features in the game. If you attack, you leave yourself vulnerable. The way it usually works is the stronger attacks have a bigger drawback. Even boxers and MMA fighters, with all their quickness, are vulnerable when they throw haymakers. I don't know why it's so hard for some video gamers to understand the trade-off.

    I know that constant movement can be fun because it provides more of an 'arcade' feel to it, but the way TERA does it just adds another level of strategy.



    I didn't said anything about understanding or not the animation lock so there is nothing to be sorry about. :)

    Imobility is simply one of the ways of representing vulnerability and providing opportunities.

    The downside of the Tera system is that it becomes easier to avoid the hits if every time one attack it has to stop.

    GW2 offer those opportunities with their CC, skills that can have movement modifiers, boons and conditions.

    Then add cooldowns and dodge.

    You just used your big attack with a big cooldown and I just dodged taking no damage  (remember you don't have that many skills availablr, so each one is precious), now you are vulnerable. On the other hand, I'm vulnerable as well since  spent 1 of my dodges and have to regain endurance.

    Its different ways of approaching combat that in my opinion are superior to other more traditional systems.

    One may prefer one or the other, they will require different skill and routines, but both are active combat systems.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    All the people saying GW2 combat is amazing and innovative must have never played AoC. Being able to attack without a target doesnt make a game not tab target. If you want to hit an enemy in a pack on gw2, u tab target them. In Tera, you aim your attack at them.

    The main difference between the tab targetting present in GW2 and other tab targetting systems is that it doesn't guarantee a hit - you may be out of range or have no line of sight and the skill will still animate and go in to cooldown, the enemy may change direction and your arrow or attack will miss, the enemy can dodge (yeah PvE mobs after the first few levels start to do this), some other enemy can get in front of your target and get hit instead.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • bhimabhima Sacramento, CAPosts: 81Member

    Once you play GW2 as a caster and realize you can actually keep moving while casting, you will wonder why every other freaking game doesn't have this implemented. I've played Tera, and TBH, it felt like a much less responsive version of DCUO (mainly because of being locked down with certain skill combos), which is still fun, but doesn't feel as fluid as GW2.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Otomox

    Ppl telling its about what you prefere are so wrong if you look at it from a technical point. I dunno  how anyone in a clear mind could say a tab based targeting combat is superior to true action combat like in TERA.  I guess its the 2nd lifespan of a hype machine like SWTOR that will go down hopefully soon.

     

    35,4 % intresting how many ppl have no idea what real skillfull comnat looks like.

    Shouldn't that be "Stop action combat"?  They even have a song about it.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by helthros


    Originally posted by Infeareal


    Originally posted by Sikhander


    Originally posted by Infeareal

    We did thte same style of poll for our mutli-genre gaming group (we have been gaming for 13 years together) but the poll was simpler option 1  or option 2. We were trying to decide were we would focus for the next while. 213 votes 209 were for tera and 4 for GW2 combat. We like to focus on PvP and we keep the irrational fanboy/girl stuff out. Just combat nothing else and highlighted was 4 videos two of tera and two of GW2 PvP as performed by 2 of our top facemelters.

    For PvE I would understand - people have different preferences. But for PvP? GW2's combat + combat system is designed with PvP in mind to a very large degree. So far I have not seen anything close to advanced in the way abilities are designed in Tera that makes PvP interesting.

    Edit: And just stop the tab targetting stuff. It is wrong. Ranged attacks are not homing in GW2. At least base the discussion on facts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YxOeRyboxA  3:01 in that video and the next 10 seconds clearly shows it. The elementalist and the arrows comming from behind him are both locked and homing. Hrmmmmm facts is facts



    Owned heh. I saw the pockett video and she was facing the target she was firing at like 5% of the time. That's when I knew I wouldn't like the GW2 combat, but oh well I'll get to play a friends account next BWE to see for myself. After TERA, I simply can't do tab-targets again. Think it's hilarious how people are still trying to tell you that you're wrong.

     

    There's one thing I want to test for myself which I haven't been able to confirm through videos. It seems like melee auto-turns in the direction of their target when they activate some skills (like the shield charge/bash thing from a warrior in a video someone post a few pages back). ( 4:01 there) Notice how his charge changes direction to meet his target - LAME.

    Also one last thing - Is there really no mana or resource management? I loved the way GW1 handled mana and mana regen.

    Clearly sending a curved fireball is in violation of the the laws of magic fireball physics.

     

    One maor problem here... the fireball doesn't curve. Watch thee video. It's strraight line every time, trying to get to where the target will be if it continues in a straight line and steady speed.

     

    The curved fireball is a lie.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • sk8chalifsk8chalif Montreal, QCPosts: 599Member Uncommon

    in advance. sorry for the english,

     

    I player both Beta. 

    First Tera, what u think i did when i frst log in? runned to the guys with the yellow mark on his head click not read anything accept quest, go to the mobs i need to kill i have to collect stuff from them. kill and collect return back to the guys. he give me a quest again and i have to kill the same mobs again, whatever i do it and continue, Will running to a mobs just before i attack it some1 else steal it from me . oh cmon, Looking around for more mobs. waiting  for them to spawn, argh... next quest still not reading it (no1 want to read a bunch of text. (lol), combat is nice and all but that only it,

     

    GW2 in the tutorial yes u click the guys with the green dots so he lets u know where to go ,but that only for the personal story .but u still do it. u go to the inn u talk to the lady, bang a cinematic. (skip it if u like), go help logan kill a centaur evasion, then a big boss, way more intersting then Tera start,

    then its start there u venture into the world full of adventure/action combat and dynamtic event/quest and u dont need to read anything. Npc running to u yellin to help them, metting up with other people grouping with them without forming an actual group not stealing any xp or loot from me, how great, lol

    well u see the picture,

    i cancelled my Tera pre-order

     

    its not only graphic or combat who interest me, its every lil details,

    they bringing some old stuff from other mmo and mixing them with other to make it better,

    but i give a +! for tera combat, the rest was meh,

     

    But of course its my Opinion and my opinion only.. deal with it,

    image
    ~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,816Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter


    Originally posted by helthros


    Originally posted by Infeareal


    Originally posted by Sikhander


    Originally posted by Infeareal

    We did thte same style of poll for our mutli-genre gaming group (we have been gaming for 13 years together) but the poll was simpler option 1  or option 2. We were trying to decide were we would focus for the next while. 213 votes 209 were for tera and 4 for GW2 combat. We like to focus on PvP and we keep the irrational fanboy/girl stuff out. Just combat nothing else and highlighted was 4 videos two of tera and two of GW2 PvP as performed by 2 of our top facemelters.

    For PvE I would understand - people have different preferences. But for PvP? GW2's combat + combat system is designed with PvP in mind to a very large degree. So far I have not seen anything close to advanced in the way abilities are designed in Tera that makes PvP interesting.

    Edit: And just stop the tab targetting stuff. It is wrong. Ranged attacks are not homing in GW2. At least base the discussion on facts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YxOeRyboxA  3:01 in that video and the next 10 seconds clearly shows it. The elementalist and the arrows comming from behind him are both locked and homing. Hrmmmmm facts is facts



    Owned heh. I saw the pockett video and she was facing the target she was firing at like 5% of the time. That's when I knew I wouldn't like the GW2 combat, but oh well I'll get to play a friends account next BWE to see for myself. After TERA, I simply can't do tab-targets again. Think it's hilarious how people are still trying to tell you that you're wrong.

     

    There's one thing I want to test for myself which I haven't been able to confirm through videos. It seems like melee auto-turns in the direction of their target when they activate some skills (like the shield charge/bash thing from a warrior in a video someone post a few pages back). ( 4:01 there) Notice how his charge changes direction to meet his target - LAME.

    Also one last thing - Is there really no mana or resource management? I loved the way GW1 handled mana and mana regen.

    Clearly sending a curved fireball is in violation of the the laws of magic fireball physics.

     

    One maor problem here... the fireball doesn't curve. Watch thee video. It's strraight line every time, trying to get to where the target will be if it continues in a straight line and steady speed.

     

    The curved fireball is a lie.



    The fireball itself doesn't curve while it is in the air but it comes out in an angle from the ele hand - the ele is looking foward and she shoots the fireball 60 degrees or so to the right. And that seems to be the default anymation for the scepter "1" skills anyway.

     

    So what they were talking about is that there isn't aiming, which is obvious since there is no crosshair . although aiming with a mouse crosshair on a hitbox  isn't particularly difficult, especially if those hitboxes have to stop to do something - it is easier than actually having to click on the target., but GW2 requires more positional skill than aiming skill.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by Volkon

     

    One maor problem here... the fireball doesn't curve. Watch thee video. It's strraight line every time, trying to get to where the target will be if it continues in a straight line and steady speed.

     

    The curved fireball is a lie.



    The fireball it self doesn't curve while it is in the air but it comes out in an angle from the ele hand - the ele is looking foward and she shoots the fireball in like a 60 degrees to the right. And that seems to be the default anymation for the scepter "1" skills anyway.

     

    So what they were talking about is that there isn't aiming, which is obvious since there is no crosshair . although aiming with a mouse crosshair on a hitbox  isn't particularly difficult, especially if those hitboxs have to stop to do something - it is easier than actually having to click on the target., but GW2 requires more positional skill than aiming skill.

    OK, that I agree with. IF you have a target selected, the game is intelligent enough to send the attack at that target. However if you don't, it goes straight ahead, which you can aim if you wish.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • CeromusCeromus Columbia, SCPosts: 112Member

    Originally posted by sk8chalif

    in advance. sorry for the english,

     

    I player both Beta. 

    First Tera, what u think i did when i frst log in? runned to the guys with the yellow mark on his head click not read anything accept quest, go to the mobs i need to kill i have to collect stuff from them. kill and collect return back to the guys. he give me a quest again and i have to kill the same mobs again, whatever i do it and continue, Will running to a mobs just before i attack it some1 else steal it from me . oh cmon, Looking around for more mobs. waiting  for them to spawn, argh... next quest still not reading it (no1 want to read a bunch of text. (lol), combat is nice and all but that only it,

     

    GW2 in the tutorial yes u click the guys with the green dots so he lets u know where to go ,but that only for the personal story .but u still do it. u go to the inn u talk to the lady, bang a cinematic. (skip it if u like), go help logan kill a centaur evasion, then a big boss, way more intersting then Tera start,

    then its start there u venture into the world full of adventure/action combat and dynamtic event/quest and u dont need to read anything. Npc running to u yellin to help them, metting up with other people grouping with them without forming an actual group not stealing any xp or loot from me, how great, lol

    well u see the picture,

    i cancelled my Tera pre-order

     

    its not only graphic or combat who interest me, its every lil details,

    they bringing some old stuff from other mmo and mixing them with other to make it better,

    but i give a +! for tera combat, the rest was meh,

     

    But of course its my Opinion and my opinion only.. deal with it,

    And not on topic but since you brought it up...

    In the start of tera there are some quests but then you do fight a boss (not special but more entertaining than the gw2 one) there is a small cinematic and you help that guy whos name escapes and his 2 friends fight it.

    The only thing is with GW2 theres no quest giver you just get the event when your in the area.  I do not find this to be as big of a deal as the company or the fans made it out to be.   In fact videos were misleading to me in the sense that I was under the impression that what I did made a difference in the world but the enemies just come right back.   Not that any of that is really that important to me.  I chose Tera because I don't expect GW2's pve to amuse me (or really anyone) for very long.  The PvP is alright but also not sure how long that will amuse me.  Tera's pvp is not perfect either but in my opinion it has way more potential.

    (Edit:  Let me clarify to say while I can understand that sieging castles and such is very appealing to some it got old very quickly for me.  If you really really enjoy that kind of thing then perhaps you'll truly enjoy what GW2 has to offer)

    I do agree with the several posts referring to guild wars 2 social friendly things like not fighting over mobs, loot (though tera loot is a lil better in some situations compared to wow), etc but then again it kind of lacks a reward feeling to me.  I do wish people were more social friendly about those situations its become sad how much effort mmo's need to go through to stop player griefing.  One thing I do enjoy about Tera is being on a pvp server with no factions if someone annoys me enough i'll just kill them.

    For those that think Tera is going to become free to play anytime soon...highly unlikely.  Perhaps when a big new mmo comes out it may be possible then but only because of the population for the PvE servers.   The PvP servers have PLENTY of players and they aren't going any where.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by Ceromus

    Originally posted by sk8chalif

    in advance. sorry for the english,

     

    I player both Beta. 

    First Tera, what u think i did when i frst log in? runned to the guys with the yellow mark on his head click not read anything accept quest, go to the mobs i need to kill i have to collect stuff from them. kill and collect return back to the guys. he give me a quest again and i have to kill the same mobs again, whatever i do it and continue, Will running to a mobs just before i attack it some1 else steal it from me . oh cmon, Looking around for more mobs. waiting  for them to spawn, argh... next quest still not reading it (no1 want to read a bunch of text. (lol), combat is nice and all but that only it,

     

    GW2 in the tutorial yes u click the guys with the green dots so he lets u know where to go ,but that only for the personal story .but u still do it. u go to the inn u talk to the lady, bang a cinematic. (skip it if u like), go help logan kill a centaur evasion, then a big boss, way more intersting then Tera start,

    then its start there u venture into the world full of adventure/action combat and dynamtic event/quest and u dont need to read anything. Npc running to u yellin to help them, metting up with other people grouping with them without forming an actual group not stealing any xp or loot from me, how great, lol

    well u see the picture,

    i cancelled my Tera pre-order

     

    its not only graphic or combat who interest me, its every lil details,

    they bringing some old stuff from other mmo and mixing them with other to make it better,

    but i give a +! for tera combat, the rest was meh,

     

    But of course its my Opinion and my opinion only.. deal with it,

    And not on topic but since you brought it up...

    In the start of tera there are some quests but then you do fight a boss (not special but more entertaining than the gw2 one) there is a small cinematic and you help that guy whos name escapes and his 2 friends fight it.

    The only thing is with GW2 theres no quest giver you just get the event when your in the area.  I do not find this to be as big of a deal as the company or the fans made it out to be.   In fact videos were misleading to me in the sense that I was under the impression that what I did made a difference in the world but the enemies just come right back.   Not that any of that is really that important to me.  I chose Tera because I don't expect GW2's pve to amuse me (or really anyone) for very long.  The PvP is alright but also not sure how long that will amuse me.  Tera's pvp is not perfect either but in my opinion it has way more potential.

    (Edit:  Let me clarify to say while I can understand that sieging castles and such is very appealing to some it got old very quickly for me.  If you really really enjoy that kind of thing then perhaps you'll truly enjoy what GW2 has to offer)

    I do agree with the several posts referring to guild wars 2 social friendly things like not fighting over mobs, loot (though tera loot is a lil better in some situations compared to wow), etc but then again it kind of lacks a reward feeling to me.  I do wish people were more social friendly about those situations its become sad how much effort mmo's need to go through to stop player griefing.  One thing I do enjoy about Tera is being on a pvp server with no factions if someone annoys me enough i'll just kill them.

    For those that think Tera is going to become free to play anytime soon...highly unlikely.  Perhaps when a big new mmo comes out it may be possible then but only because of the population for the PvE servers.   The PvP servers have PLENTY of players and they aren't going any where.

    You were doing it wrong. As was I, as were most of us.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • CeromusCeromus Columbia, SCPosts: 112Member

    Originally posted by Volkon

    You were doing it wrong. As was I, as were most of us.

     

    I can't watch the video from my current location but I will check it out later unless you want to give me a recap.

  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

    Originally posted by helthros


    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter


    Originally posted by Amjoco


     

    Thank you! Might I use your GW2 targeting analogy on other posts I find from Tera fans?  Every other post is about tab-targeting! I wish both sides would read about the games before posting rumors or clueless comments.

    Sure.

    I don't understand what is the thing about Tera vs GW2, especially concerning combat.

    I wold love an mmo that would combine the aiming crosshair of Tera+ GW2 movement freedom.

    Both combat systems require skill and are fun to play.

    I'm not going to be playing Tera for 2 reasons - subscription (no point paying when there are games just as good or better without them) and out of combat stuff like questing (for my tastes GW2 world is apparently superior)

    But we (at least I do) definetly are needing mmorpgs that have action combat and I don't think the combat will be the main factor deciding between GW2 and Tera for most people  -  both games will give a more lively, albeit different, combat.

     

    I'm sorry that you don't understand why you need the 'animation-lock' for this kind of combat. Honestly, it's one of my favorite features in the game. If you attack, you leave yourself vulnerable. The way it usually works is the stronger attacks have a bigger drawback. Even boxers and MMA fighters, with all their quickness, are vulnerable when they throw haymakers. I don't know why it's so hard for some video gamers to understand the trade-off.

    I know that constant movement can be fun because it provides more of an 'arcade' feel to it, but the way TERA does it just adds another level of strategy.



    I didn't said anything about understanding or not the animation lock so there is nothing to be sorry about. :)

    Imobility is simply one of the ways of representing vulnerability and providing opportunities.

    The downside of the Tera system is that it becomes easier to avoid the hits if every time one attack it has to stop.

    GW2 offer those opportunities with their CC, skills that can have movement modifiers, boons and conditions.

    Then add cooldowns and dodge.

    You just used your big attack with a big cooldown and I just dodged taking no damage  (remember you don't have that many skills availablr, so each one is precious), now you are vulnerable. On the other hand, I'm vulnerable as well since  spent 1 of my dodges and have to regain endurance.

    Its different ways of approaching combat that in my opinion are superior to other more traditional systems.

    One may prefer one or the other, they will require different skill and routines, but both are active combat systems.

     

    The red leads someone to believe that you don't understand why there's an animation lock. I didn't just make it up :)

     

    Meh this is me signing out on the GW2 fanboy discussions. There's no point.

     

    I argue "It's tab-targetting", and they respond back "No it's not tab-targetting because if there's a tree inbetween us then the spell hits the tree"... Oh really? What the hell does projectile collision detection have to do with tab-targetting? Absolutely NOTHING. "You don't HAVE to use tab". Yah, but you're clearly at a disadvantage to anyone else who is.

     

    My favorite is how managing skills and cooldowns is somehow harder and more complex with the removal of a resource system.

     

    Again, this whole everyone is self-sufficient, being able to cast while running, no real resource management thing just seems too 'arcade' for me.. I prefer the strategy of having to aim my attacks and knowing that if I miss my attack there will be more to consider than just a cooldown (like cooldown consideration is somehow new). It's no surprise people choose the easier option, hell WoW made a killer living off of it. With the action combat thing you either love it or you hate it.

     

    Have fun trollin - Cya in-game.

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