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Are "themepark" MMOs really that bad?

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Comments

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Theme parks are not bad but the problem is that everyone and their cousin is making one. You get tired fo theme parks really quick nowadays. Noone has the guts to make a sanbox mmo for the masses.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Sandpoint, IDPosts: 1,526Member

    I have a hard time seeing a themepark being released with more content than Vanguard anytime soon but people don't even appreciate that game which I cannot blame them for since SOE will probably never have an expansion for the endgame. I doubt any of the games in the works has as much content. MMORPGs are starting to remind me of Elder Scroll games in that the newer they are, the less content they have, but the more fluff they will contain.

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    I wouldnt play MMO's these days if it werent for indie devs who still create mature games.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    I like and play both themepark and sandbox mmorpgs. The only issue I've had with themeparks lately is they just felt too much like the one before it. Like I was playing a knockoff of another game.

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member Common

    I won't demeen RPGs by saying that adding simulation elements makes it a completely different genre of game.  IF I"m playing an MMORPG, then  Iwant it to have quests and adventures designed by the designers. WHen i go to play DND i expect the dm to have adventures ready for us, no one wants to sit at a table and look at a dm throw monsters randomly at you, nor do we want the dm to tell us the game is about building and running a city that plays a more prominent role than the questing and adventuring.  

    IF he sat ther eand told me some bullcrap about making "my own story" I"d reach across the table and slap him.  That's just a lazy DM.  The Eve designers are the smartest folk ever, they have managed to get a smal lgroup of people (and its a small subsccriber base) to pay money for making their own stuff.  The mongolian grill of MMO games. 

    Now, if you tell me we're playing an MMOsimulation, heck yeah, bring on the simulation. But naivity of what a genre really is doesnt mean developers should cave and try to turn RPGs into Simulations, no more than I expect to cut on an RPG and have tro play 10 football matches to level my character. 

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Sandpoint, IDPosts: 1,526Member

    Originally posted by dontadow

    I won't demeen RPGs by saying that adding simulation elements makes it a completely different genre of game.  IF I"m playing an MMORPG, then  Iwant it to have quests and adventures designed by the designers. WHen i go to play DND i expect the dm to have adventures ready for us, no one wants to sit at a table and look at a dm throw monsters randomly at you, nor do we want the dm to tell us the game is about building and running a city that plays a more prominent role than the questing and adventuring.  

    IF he sat ther eand told me some bullcrap about making "my own story" I"d reach across the table and slap him.  That's just a lazy DM.  The Eve designers are the smartest folk ever, they have managed to get a smal lgroup of people (and its a small subsccriber base) to pay money for making their own stuff.  The mongolian grill of MMO games. 

    Now, if you tell me we're playing an MMOsimulation, heck yeah, bring on the simulation. But naivity of what a genre really is doesnt mean developers should cave and try to turn RPGs into Simulations, no more than I expect to cut on an RPG and have tro play 10 football matches to level my character. 

    But you have a DM when you play DnD that can take you through a quest meant for your character that no one else will ever go on.

     

    In MMORPGs (especially today) you are more likely going to watch the same movies as the next player as you go on the same adventures and get the same rewards until you can eventually reach endgame where there is nothing worth competing for.

     

    With the amount of people who want a change in MMORPGs, surely they could afford to have DMs take the players on epic quests that happen only once? Its about time for a real RPG!! The closest games to that are made by indy companies that people do not even appreciate.

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member

    It's not so much about the themepark; it's the fact that MMO's just stopped trying to innovate. If someone pushed out a themepark that had an innovating feature, or great difference; I'd be all for that. It's just coincidencethat all the games coming out are mostly themeparks.

    The only glimmer of hope I have; is from crowdfunded/lowbudget/lowmatience indie MMO's. Indie games always try and experiment with different features. 

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIPosts: 1,044Member Common

    Originally posted by Sid_Vicious

    Originally posted by dontadow

    I won't demeen RPGs by saying that adding simulation elements makes it a completely different genre of game.  IF I"m playing an MMORPG, then  Iwant it to have quests and adventures designed by the designers. WHen i go to play DND i expect the dm to have adventures ready for us, no one wants to sit at a table and look at a dm throw monsters randomly at you, nor do we want the dm to tell us the game is about building and running a city that plays a more prominent role than the questing and adventuring.  

    IF he sat ther eand told me some bullcrap about making "my own story" I"d reach across the table and slap him.  That's just a lazy DM.  The Eve designers are the smartest folk ever, they have managed to get a smal lgroup of people (and its a small subsccriber base) to pay money for making their own stuff.  The mongolian grill of MMO games. 

    Now, if you tell me we're playing an MMOsimulation, heck yeah, bring on the simulation. But naivity of what a genre really is doesnt mean developers should cave and try to turn RPGs into Simulations, no more than I expect to cut on an RPG and have tro play 10 football matches to level my character. 

    But you have a DM when you play DnD that can take you through a quest meant for your character that no one else will ever go on.

     

    In MMORPGs (especially today) you are more likely going to watch the same movies as the next player as you go on the same adventures and get the same rewards until you can eventually reach endgame where there is nothing worth competing for.

     

    With the amount of people who want a change in MMORPGs, surely they could afford to have DMs take the players on epic quests that happen only once? Its about time for a real RPG!! The closest games to that are made by indy companies that people do not even appreciate.

    A lot of DMs use modules, modules that millions of other gamers use.  All of the mechanics of that module are the asame.  What is different is how we go about solving it.  Good mmos do the same thing.  

    IN DnD your average gamer doesnt game for "Rewards".   YOu RPG cause its fun and you like it. There's no "end game" as a matter of fact i havn't took a campaign to level 20 in 10 years, because in most games that's the least of anyone's concern.  Loot, the least of any ones concern. Sure everyon loves magical items, but its third to killing the king,  defeating hte demon saving the world.  It's the thirll of winning against the adventure that you play for.

    That said, the basic MMO just can't afford what you ask, which is why a well designed mmo with multiple paths and options is the best way to go, ala GW2.  The more complex dynamic events can have a half dozen outcomes, differnet dpending on what yu did, didn't do and what branche off.

    But i have allways said that at some point, they need to make a luxuary game. I'd pay 100 to 200 bucks a month for a game with a small server of a few hundred and each server had its personal dm to make things for.  

    But evne then, i am paying a professional to do this.  Not some yahoo who managed to swindle everyone. 

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,745Member Uncommon

    Themeparks are great.

    Playing the same game isn't.

    Use game design, dev teams. :/

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    Originally posted by GPrestige

    So, after frequenting these forums I get the impression that people are not happy with themepark MMOs. I personally have begun to get bored of certain aspects of the themepark-style MMO, such as repetitiveness... but I do not hate it like I see a lot of people here do.

    What I want to know is if people actually HATE themepark MMOs, or they are just sick of seeing that a majority of MMOs coming out fit into that category. A lot of MMOs that have been released in the last few years seem to have something wrong with them, but the themepark complaint seems to only be pre-release. Post-release, people completely forget about it, and start to complain about something else.

     

    When it comes down to it, do you think that themepark MMOs are boring in general, or that they could be good, but are just executed poorly?

    The answer cannot be black or white, there is lots of grey area to cover.

    The thing is that answers will come depending and based on player generations. First generation players (from UO/MUD days lets say) will most probably hate them, Second generation players, from EQ, will not necessarilly hate them but may find them "dumped down"...then you have other generations which actually never experienced old school ones, and these will not hate them generally, but may become bored of them or bored at certain aspects like you.

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    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon

          It isn't that alot of us hate themepark games, its that they have all been very similar the last few years.....Extremely quest heavy, little or no exploration, instanced, and made so that you could train your 4 year old brother to beat them......I just think alot of us are getting tired of the same thing over and over and are looking for something a little more fresh and exciting.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    A themepark game can be good, it just depends on how they build it. 

    Making kill ten rat quests is not good.

    End game gear grind is not good.

    Turning PVP into a grind is not good. 

    40 man raids to stay competitive gearwise is not good.

    I would say GW2 is an example of a themepark done well, at least they address everything I hate about themeparks.   I also think a well made sandbox would be a lot more fun than any themepark just because their would be more stuff to work toward.

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    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • GPrestigeGPrestige Guelph, ONPosts: 521Member

    The question I have is why are people willing to accept every FPS that is extremely similar in gameplay and style, just different stories and settings... but can't accept the same for MMOs?

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  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Originally posted by GPrestige

    The question I have is why are people willing to accept every FPS that is extremely similar in gameplay and style, just different stories and settings... but can't accept the same for MMOs?

    Simple. It's because there's other ways to make mmorpg's that are more virtual world and in-depth instead of the same on rails, linear, gear grind themepark.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Originally posted by Wolfenpride
    Can't be that bad since people keep playing them.
    But yes, I have been staying away from most modern themeparks. They're focusing to much on soloplay.
    Aion - Free to play
    AoC - Free to play
    STO - Free to play
    CO - Free to play
    LOTRO - Free to play
    EQ2 - Free to play
    DCUO - Free to play
    WAR - Free to play
    I mean sure.... people play themeparks in there current state, but not enough seem to stick around for the game to be profitable off of subs.
    But nah, I'm just playing devils advocate here. I'm actually looking forward to a themepark GW2 :P

    GW2 is a kind of themepark your still rather free to do and go wherever you wanne go and game won't steer you or tell you what to do plus no npcs to get quests or or need for party no raids.

    No gear treatmill no lvling of importence. You can PvP on highest lvl from lvl1 or raid huge bosses when lvl1.

    Guild Wars 2 is semi themepark with freedom of a sandbox.

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  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    That bad? No. Has the market been flooded with them? Yes.

    I love pizza. But if every restaurant in my city was a pizza joint I would probably get sick of it pretty quickly.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • HauvarnHauvarn Walker, LAPosts: 220Member

    I find em fun, but I do have friends that I always play with. currrently I'm playing star wars and having some good ole fashion fun.  Some people hate em some people like em,  but what it comes down to is what is the best way you would like to kill your time after a hard days work.

    Yes I played SWTOR.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by NaughtyP

    That bad? No. Has the market been flooded with them? Yes.

    I love pizza. But if every restaurant in my city was a pizza joint I would probably get sick of it pretty quickly.

    That's it in a nutshell.

    There's nothing wrong with theme park games, it's just that an increasing number of gamers seem to have had their fill after all of these years. The current crop of devs needs to seriously get their shit together or we're not going to have much of a genre to dabble in.

    It was kind of funny a few years ago, now it's beyond sad.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • thepoptartthepoptart Long Beach, CAPosts: 61Member

    Originally posted by GPrestige

    The question I have is why are people willing to accept every FPS that is extremely similar in gameplay and style, just different stories and settings... but can't accept the same for MMOs?

    Because variety is created by players through the gameplay. Unless your playing against a pro, then your just being shot in the head a bunch of times.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by GPrestige

    The question I have is why are people willing to accept every FPS that is extremely similar in gameplay and style, just different stories and settings... but can't accept the same for MMOs?

    FPS (and RTS) games have been fleshed out rather well over their lifespans, and they are relatively limited in their scope to begin with.

    Use your imagination, man. This genre, above all others, has the potential to become something the likes of which we have never seen in video gaming.

     

     

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Sandpoint, IDPosts: 1,526Member

    Originally posted by dontadow

    Originally posted by Sid_Vicious


    Originally posted by dontadow

    I won't demeen RPGs by saying that adding simulation elements makes it a completely different genre of game.  IF I"m playing an MMORPG, then  Iwant it to have quests and adventures designed by the designers. WHen i go to play DND i expect the dm to have adventures ready for us, no one wants to sit at a table and look at a dm throw monsters randomly at you, nor do we want the dm to tell us the game is about building and running a city that plays a more prominent role than the questing and adventuring.  

    IF he sat ther eand told me some bullcrap about making "my own story" I"d reach across the table and slap him.  That's just a lazy DM.  The Eve designers are the smartest folk ever, they have managed to get a smal lgroup of people (and its a small subsccriber base) to pay money for making their own stuff.  The mongolian grill of MMO games. 

    Now, if you tell me we're playing an MMOsimulation, heck yeah, bring on the simulation. But naivity of what a genre really is doesnt mean developers should cave and try to turn RPGs into Simulations, no more than I expect to cut on an RPG and have tro play 10 football matches to level my character. 

    But you have a DM when you play DnD that can take you through a quest meant for your character that no one else will ever go on.

     

    In MMORPGs (especially today) you are more likely going to watch the same movies as the next player as you go on the same adventures and get the same rewards until you can eventually reach endgame where there is nothing worth competing for.

     

    With the amount of people who want a change in MMORPGs, surely they could afford to have DMs take the players on epic quests that happen only once? Its about time for a real RPG!! The closest games to that are made by indy companies that people do not even appreciate.

    A lot of DMs use modules, modules that millions of other gamers use.  All of the mechanics of that module are the asame.  What is different is how we go about solving it.  Good mmos do the same thing.  

    IN DnD your average gamer doesnt game for "Rewards".   YOu RPG cause its fun and you like it. There's no "end game" as a matter of fact i havn't took a campaign to level 20 in 10 years, because in most games that's the least of anyone's concern.  Loot, the least of any ones concern. Sure everyon loves magical items, but its third to killing the king,  defeating hte demon saving the world.  It's the thirll of winning against the adventure that you play for.

    That said, the basic MMO just can't afford what you ask, which is why a well designed mmo with multiple paths and options is the best way to go, ala GW2.  The more complex dynamic events can have a half dozen outcomes, differnet dpending on what yu did, didn't do and what branche off.

    But i have allways said that at some point, they need to make a luxuary game. I'd pay 100 to 200 bucks a month for a game with a small server of a few hundred and each server had its personal dm to make things for.  

    But evne then, i am paying a professional to do this.  Not some yahoo who managed to swindle everyone. 

    Yeah if there was a DEV assigned to making my experience one of a kind by controlling mobs or what not than I would pay much more each month!!

     

    I don't typically enjoy DnD games that force me along the rails either though. In fact, I like having DMs that would allow me to kill both the good guys and bad guys and take everything for myself if I was able to pull it off.

     

    example:

    Questgiver A says, "Go go kill 5 rats and bring back there tails for a reward!"

    I go out and kill the rats and collect the tails while I ding to level 2 ..... "Alright here are you tails, sir. May I please have my reward now?"

    Questgiver A repies, "Here is what I owe you (cha-ching I earned 10 copper!) and now I have another task for you. I need you to kill 10 lizards and bring me back their tongues for a reward!"

    .... "Uhhh . .. how about you just give me your money bitch! I am not killing any more fucking animals for you!!" *stab* cha-ching!

     

    Bad example but my point is that the player doesn't always want to go along with the quest the way that the DM wants and its really lame to play with DMs that will make God shoot down a lightning bolt from the sky to stop you from doing things differently.

     

    I've played tabletop games all my life and people used to pay me to be the DM at times. Probably because instead of creating a quest for the next time that we play I would create a setting with several optional quests and storylines. While playing I constantly roll (so the dice make all decisions instead of me) and try and make things as realistic as possible without letting what I want to happen effect the game. Its like a tabletop sandbox version lol much funner though imo since I've played all those games and playing this way is by far the funnest for the players since they have so much more control over what they want to do in the game and do not ever feel 'trapped' by what I want them to do. Its interesting how everyone handles things differently when done this way and I end up creating quests that they would much rather do.

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

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