LoL, when you get back to leprechaun and unicorn land then we can talk.
lol player policing *shakes head*, I can't believe people are still try to sell that crap.
Come on now. If you played UO you know that this happend. I saw bands of blue PKKs all the time. All they did was hunt down red players. Now I'll grant that in newer FFA PvP games like EvE and DF this doesn't happen anymore. It's pretty much bad guys vs bad guys now.
Something being there any something actually working are two very different things.
Title says it all. For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.
Anyone agree?
Yeah because FFA pvp Sandbox is where the real money is. DF, MO etc are such run away success.
Again just because indie companies with small budgets fail doesn't mean Zenimax would. Why should creating something different be stopped because of some failures? You people have no idea how popular the ideas behind DF / MO were before launch and the only reasons said games have failed is because the developers failed to bring what they had promised to the table.
Sandbox FFA PvP can work. That correct balance can be found. Such a shame TES won't be the MMO it could have been and should be by all rights.
it is always easy to gamble on other people money.
Minecraft is the epitome of sandbox. TES is sandbox but to a lesser extent. Zelda is open world. WoW is themepark
Technically, Minecraft is an open-ended game. It's a variation of games like simcity. They aren't sandbox games, they're just open-ended.
What is the objective of minecraft? To build.
Is there any way to avoid the objective of the game? Yes, by not playing it; it is the only way to diverge from the objective.
Am I unaware of some other way in which minecraft is played? I tried it once for about 10 minutes and then I remembered that I'm this incredibly talented artist that paints lifelike picture, and actually know how to use coral with a tablet properly on top of tradition paint mediums; and this game sucks.
The entire premise sinse the first sandbox mode was created, was that you don't have to play the objective and can do whatever you want. If I'm not doing the objective in minecraft, I'm not playing it. Or is there some other way to play minecraft that I'm unaware of?
Simcity has never, ever been classified as a sandbox, it's always been an open-ended, city buiding, strategy game. Because it's impossible to play simcity without playing the objective. Building crap.
Title says it all. For them not to make TES: Online into what it rightfully should be is a joke beyond the ages.
Anyone agree?
I must of missed the ffapvp in my Skyrim playing. Did I have a setting turned off? FPS not a game breaker for me. Class based does kind of suck.
With the exception of a few storyline characters you could kill anyone anywhere in any TES game. Sure there were laws in place to discourage said murders but you could if you so wanted knowing the guards would be after you.
If that doesn't scream FFA PvP I don't know what does.
Yes and just outside the first town I didn't stumble across 20 max skill characters that ass raped me with one shot. So how does this scream ffapvp again?
Go play a fps where pvp actually takes some skill.
That doesn't happen in FFA PvP games.. Every once in a while you'll get some D-bag preying on lower leveled players, but if the game is designed correctly, those players are off doing something a bit more profitable to their wealth and time.
Non-FPS games take plenty of skill too.
Yeah I started playing UO in 98 so don't try to bull shit me. There were many times the vesper bridges, grave yard, insert lowbie choke point was camped by some d-bags looking for kicks not for treasure.
1 part skill 9 parts level and gear. I guess if you consider farming a skill you would be correct.
There were never 20 geared players there unless it was in the last hour before server restart, where nothing was saved. I also played UO, so you can't actually lie and get away with it.
It was 1 part gear, 3 parts skill and 6 part connection speed and stability. Most players in UO wore the similar gear.
Non-FPS games take skill. I've seen a ton of horrible players in games like WoW. Are you saying Stratego doesn't take skill? Scrabble? That is an ignorant viewpoint in my opinion.
Yeah you shouldn't cherry pick words from various post and try to ah ha me. It only make you look silly. And how do you know there were never 20 d-bags hanging out at the bridges? Is that you santa?
Clearly since I said level and gear I figured most would assume I wasn't refering to UO. But if you want to talk UO pvp you should get rid of gear and shave skill down to 2. Then add 2 for macroing program. For UO pking shave another one off skill and take one from connecting for 2 point in (deadly poisoned katana, and greater explosion potion.
Double cast spell, followed by the explosion potion, and then poison katana = insta death. Look mom I'm a epic skilled pvper.
Everything has to take some amount of skill, but if you want to beat your chest about being some epic pvper play a game that is actually designed for pvp.
I can't do this round and round anymore. You'll keep shoveling that ffapvp is great and every game that has gone ffapvp and be mediocre at best is because (insert some random flaw) not because most peopel do not like ffapvp.
There is some bias on that faq, as they soften the blow a little bit, but yes, what you are saying is accurate.
Welcome.
It's not really WoW, it's more like DAOC 2 with some Guild Wars thrown in for good measure.
Also, they started out saying how much like WoW it is, just when it was announced, then the internet (mostly TES fans) told them to go fuck themselves, and they changed their tune around E3, trying to emphasize all the TES stuff, but don't be fooled, it's just marketing spin.
After E3, when most crtitics and news outlets were either angry or unimpressed by their E3 presentation, they have been all but silent. Heads in the sand, boys!
QUOTE:
"The Elder Scrolls Online cannot use the same real-time combat model that has been a feature of recent TES games. There are important technical reasons why this is not feasible, ranging from network latency to client security and cheating prevention. In order to preserve as much of the real-time “feel” as possible, the game’s combat focuses around the opportunistic use of a stamina bar which allows the player to sprint, block, interrupt, and escape crowd control. By selectively using these strategic abilities, combat in TES:O feels dynamic, despite adhering to turn-based fundamentals which are critical to MMO design. All classes have access to block, sprint, and crouch."
Basically they outright lied and said FPS combat was impossible in an MMO. Meanwhile: Darkfall, Planetside 2, Mortal Online, etc...
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world.
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions. LOLOL
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day. ROFL
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually. LMFAO
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES
1) Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them. Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like. This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.
2) Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view. They've said nothing about combat. It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage. Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever. Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode." It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.
3) Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body. The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant. They could be players too, doesn't really change anything. Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.
4) I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities. No, I KNOW you are.
5) This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions. LOLOL
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day. ROFL
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually. LMFAO
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES
1) Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them. Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like. This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.
2) Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view. They've said nothing about combat. It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage. Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever. Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode." It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.
3) Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body. The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant. They could be players too, doesn't really change anything. Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.
4) I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities. No, I KNOW you are.
5) This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.
1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.
2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...
5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world.
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.
This isn't the Elder Scrolls Online. This is Generic MMORPG #42518 with the Elder Scrolls name and lore slapped on it. I loved Oblivion and Skyrim, but I won' t be touching this abomination.
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions. LOLOL
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day. ROFL
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually. LMFAO
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES
1) Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them. Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like. This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.
2) Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view. They've said nothing about combat. It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage. Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever. Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode." It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.
3) Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body. The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant. They could be players too, doesn't really change anything. Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.
4) I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities. No, I KNOW you are.
5) This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.
1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.
2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...
5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.
1) Quest chains are not level-dependent. Any miscellaneous quests you can start at any time, go anywhere, and you can get to Dagoth Ur in Morrowind in about 20 minutes of playing. You will likely die, but you can get there.
2) I didn't call it "vanity mode," the lead designer of The Elder Scrolls, Todd Howard, did.
3) Do you realize that it has been done in MMOs before? Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EVE Online, Mortal Online, Darkfall. Hell even WoW has PvP servers. It isn't technically griefing if its part of the game. You have to be on your toes and watch your back. Much more exciting and engrossing than the typical care-bear yawn-fest.
4) But in TESO you don't have to equip such abilites, every time you want to change them like TES, you have a hotbar, much like GW2, that has assigned slots. It has 3 weapon skills, a healing ability, two class skills and a special. Nothing. Like. TES.
5) But nothing in Daggerfall or Arena? LOL that's sad. Did you try to play all those hours in Morrowind in 3rd-person? Did you get that 3rd person improved mod?
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
I take it youve never even heard of games like Ultima Online, Darkfall, Mortal, Xsyon, etc. Hell, have you even played a TES game? Yes you can kill people, but there are also consequences. Same as in the other games I mentioned. Its not everyone running around ganking eachother in the starter zones for eternity because you cant go anywhere without getting attacked. There are alignment systems, war/alliance systems, etc.
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions. LOLOL
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day. ROFL
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually. LMFAO
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES
1) Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them. Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like. This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.
2) Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view. They've said nothing about combat. It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage. Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever. Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode." It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.
3) Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body. The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant. They could be players too, doesn't really change anything. Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.
4) I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities. No, I KNOW you are.
5) This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.
1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.
2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...
5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.
1) Quest chains are not level-dependent. Any miscellaneous quests you can start at any time, go anywhere, and you can get to Dagoth Ur in Morrowind in about 20 minutes of playing. You will likely die, but you can get there.
2) I didn't call it "vanity mode," the lead designer of The Elder Scrolls, Todd Howard, did.
3) Do you realize that it has been done in MMOs before? Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EVE Online, Mortal Online, Darkfall. Hell even WoW has PvP servers. It isn't technically griefing if its part of the game. You have to be on your toes and watch your back. Much more exciting and engrossing than the typical care-bear yawn-fest.
4) But in TESO you don't have to equip such abilites, every time you want to change them like TES, you have a hotbar, much like GW2, that has assigned slots. It has 3 weapon skills, a healing ability, two class skills and a special. Nothing. Like. TES.
5) But nothing in Daggerfall or Arena? LOL that's sad. Did you try to play all those hours in Morrowind in 3rd-person? Did you get that 3rd person improved mod?
1) If they keep a system like is sounds like they are (similar to GW2) you can go do any quest at any level. If you want to go to Orr at level 1 in GW2, you can do the quests there. You will die, but you can attempt to do them.
2) Vanity mode or not, its still optimal.
3) I played eve for 2 years, and you could not destroy NPC space stations which is the closest to being able to kill everything in the world. Sure you could kill people before concord showed up, but like I said earlier I'll take DAoC style RvR ANY DAY over FFA PvP. RvRvR is much more interesting. Their plans for Cyrodill sound amazing so far. GW2's WvWvW with a reason to do it.
4) So instead of pressing 3 then right clicking, you just press 3. Sure its a different combat system, but look at the recent MMORPG that tried an aiming system, TERA, it bombed Latency is too big of an issue for a lot of players. Once we all get superamazing0pinginternet something like that will become feasable, but not it doesn't work all that well.
5) Morrowind in 3rd person just looks odd as fuck due to the waddeling, but it is still optimal because you get a better view of your surroundings, can see around corners, and can in general sneak better.
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. LOL
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions. LOLOL
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day. ROFL
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually. LMFAO
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.ROFLMAOCOPTERSKATES
1) Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them. Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like. This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.
2) Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view. They've said nothing about combat. It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage. Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever. Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode." It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.
3) Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body. The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant. They could be players too, doesn't really change anything. Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.
4) I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities. No, I KNOW you are.
5) This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.
1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.
2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...
5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.
1) Quest chains are not level-dependent. Any miscellaneous quests you can start at any time, go anywhere, and you can get to Dagoth Ur in Morrowind in about 20 minutes of playing. You will likely die, but you can get there.
2) I didn't call it "vanity mode," the lead designer of The Elder Scrolls, Todd Howard, did.
3) Do you realize that it has been done in MMOs before? Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EVE Online, Mortal Online, Darkfall. Hell even WoW has PvP servers. It isn't technically griefing if its part of the game. You have to be on your toes and watch your back. Much more exciting and engrossing than the typical care-bear yawn-fest.
4) But in TESO you don't have to equip such abilites, every time you want to change them like TES, you have a hotbar, much like GW2, that has assigned slots. It has 3 weapon skills, a healing ability, two class skills and a special. Nothing. Like. TES.
5) But nothing in Daggerfall or Arena? LOL that's sad. Did you try to play all those hours in Morrowind in 3rd-person? Did you get that 3rd person improved mod?
1) If they keep a system like is sounds like they are (similar to GW2) you can go do any quest at any level. If you want to go to Orr at level 1 in GW2, you can do the quests there. You will die, but you can attempt to do them.
2) Vanity mode or not, its still optimal.
3) I played eve for 2 years, and you could not destroy NPC space stations which is the closest to being able to kill everything in the world. Sure you could kill people before concord showed up, but like I said earlier I'll take DAoC style RvR ANY DAY over FFA PvP. RvRvR is much more interesting. Their plans for Cyrodill sound amazing so far. GW2's WvWvW with a reason to do it.
4) So instead of pressing 3 then right clicking, you just press 3. Sure its a different combat system, but look at the recent MMORPG that tried an aiming system, TERA, it bombed Latency is too big of an issue for a lot of players. Once we all get superamazing0pinginternet something like that will become feasable, but not it doesn't work all that well.
5) Morrowind in 3rd person just looks odd as fuck due to the waddeling, but it is still optimal because you get a better view of your surroundings, can see around corners, and can in general sneak better.
1) No because the higher level quests don't scale you up, except in WvW, you just scale down to the lower level quests. Not the same. In TES you go anywhere you like and do what you like, when you like. There's no necessity to follow questlines in order to level, nor do you ever need to grind.
2) It's optimal for seeing your surroundings, but good luck hitting anything consistently or picking up items without a great deal of frustration.
3) Well that's just sad that you prefer cookie-cutter arena games to truly amazing dynamic PvP, oh well.
4) TERA's combat was not truly real-time. It was like GW2, play Mortal Online and Darkfall to see actual real-time combat in an MMO with no issues in latency. The "impossible" excuse is utter bullshit.
5) It also plays odd as fuck because trying to be in combat with anything is nearly impossible. Also MW was the first TES game with any kind of 3rd person, the previous games are 100% first person. TESO would be much better if it was FP only and designed around it. By sneak better, you mean cheat, aka "corner-look" without esposing yourself to any enemy. Lame.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I have to ask again, as the haters don't seem to be able to answer
Skyrim has ffa pvp?
No, but it is FFA full-loot, it does not have PvP. It is a single-player game, therefore the distinction is moot.
In Skyrim Online however, you can attack and kill other players and take their stuff just like in the vanilla SP game. Of course, you'll get bounty on your head, but it is really the only way it makes sense.
I agree somewhat, but I disagree with you on a few things.
1. TES series are not sandbox games, so why should an ES MMO be?
2. The three faction PvP system sounds much better than FFA.
I could care less that it's going to play a lot like your standard themepark, what angers me is that it's doing away with FPV, twitch combat, housing, free form character progression and probably a whole lot more. It could still be a fun game, whether or not I decide to give it a go will depend on a few things, once being payment model.
It is a sandbox. You can go out and do as you wish. You can slaughter a town, take over someones house. The main quest is only a portion of whats there to do.
Sandbox is a virtual world with an assortment of things for you to choose to do when you want to do them. Creating your own content is only one aspect of a sandbox and not an aspect all sandboxes share.
It's nice to see people trying to suddenly declare the TES series a themepark lol.
What your talking about is an open world. Being able to roam freely and do what you want is not a sandbox. It doesn't matter what games people want to label as a sandbox, the very word sandbox implies creation. Therefore, every sandbox game should rely heavily on player created content, something which TES has never done.
No. What you are talking about is the literal meaning of sandbox and that is not What a sandbox MMO is. The others are right, free open world where you are free to do, go where you want is hallmarks of sandbox MMMo.
I agree somewhat, but I disagree with you on a few things.
1. TES series are not sandbox games, so why should an ES MMO be?
2. The three faction PvP system sounds much better than FFA.
I could care less that it's going to play a lot like your standard themepark, what angers me is that it's doing away with FPV, twitch combat, housing, free form character progression and probably a whole lot more. It could still be a fun game, whether or not I decide to give it a go will depend on a few things, once being payment model.
It is a sandbox. You can go out and do as you wish. You can slaughter a town, take over someones house. The main quest is only a portion of whats there to do.
Sandbox is a virtual world with an assortment of things for you to choose to do when you want to do them. Creating your own content is only one aspect of a sandbox and not an aspect all sandboxes share.
It's nice to see people trying to suddenly declare the TES series a themepark lol.
What your talking about is an open world. Being able to roam freely and do what you want is not a sandbox. It doesn't matter what games people want to label as a sandbox, the very word sandbox implies creation. Therefore, every sandbox game should rely heavily on player created content, something which TES has never done.
Wrong, sandbox is and always has meant to be a non linear, open world freeform style of game. Nothing about the word dictates that there "must" mean player created content. I dont know who is responsible for creating this false definition but it really needs to stop.
In a nut shell linearity is the closest and most simplist defining characteristic between sandbox and themepark.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I have to ask again, as the haters don't seem to be able to answer
Skyrim has ffa pvp?
No because it is a single player game. Can you kill any NPC you want? Yea but that is the only freedom that is restricted in the MMO version because it could never be parlayed (EVER) into an MMO.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Comments
Something being there any something actually working are two very different things.
it is always easy to gamble on other people money.
Technically, Minecraft is an open-ended game. It's a variation of games like simcity. They aren't sandbox games, they're just open-ended.
What is the objective of minecraft? To build.
Is there any way to avoid the objective of the game? Yes, by not playing it; it is the only way to diverge from the objective.
Am I unaware of some other way in which minecraft is played? I tried it once for about 10 minutes and then I remembered that I'm this incredibly talented artist that paints lifelike picture, and actually know how to use coral with a tablet properly on top of tradition paint mediums; and this game sucks.
The entire premise sinse the first sandbox mode was created, was that you don't have to play the objective and can do whatever you want. If I'm not doing the objective in minecraft, I'm not playing it. Or is there some other way to play minecraft that I'm unaware of?
Simcity has never, ever been classified as a sandbox, it's always been an open-ended, city buiding, strategy game. Because it's impossible to play simcity without playing the objective. Building crap.
Yeah you shouldn't cherry pick words from various post and try to ah ha me. It only make you look silly. And how do you know there were never 20 d-bags hanging out at the bridges? Is that you santa?
Clearly since I said level and gear I figured most would assume I wasn't refering to UO. But if you want to talk UO pvp you should get rid of gear and shave skill down to 2. Then add 2 for macroing program. For UO pking shave another one off skill and take one from connecting for 2 point in (deadly poisoned katana, and greater explosion potion.
Double cast spell, followed by the explosion potion, and then poison katana = insta death. Look mom I'm a epic skilled pvper.
Everything has to take some amount of skill, but if you want to beat your chest about being some epic pvper play a game that is actually designed for pvp.
I can't do this round and round anymore. You'll keep shoveling that ffapvp is great and every game that has gone ffapvp and be mediocre at best is because (insert some random flaw) not because most peopel do not like ffapvp.
Now wait a second, this is -not- designed as a sandbox like the original titles??
Really?
You mean this will be like WoW with a TESO skin? How do we know? Links please I need to read.
I gave it to you in another thread, but here:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/
There is some bias on that faq, as they soften the blow a little bit, but yes, what you are saying is accurate.
Welcome.
It's not really WoW, it's more like DAOC 2 with some Guild Wars thrown in for good measure.
Also, they started out saying how much like WoW it is, just when it was announced, then the internet (mostly TES fans) told them to go fuck themselves, and they changed their tune around E3, trying to emphasize all the TES stuff, but don't be fooled, it's just marketing spin.
After E3, when most crtitics and news outlets were either angry or unimpressed by their E3 presentation, they have been all but silent. Heads in the sand, boys!
QUOTE:
"The Elder Scrolls Online cannot use the same real-time combat model that has been a feature of recent TES games. There are important technical reasons why this is not feasible, ranging from network latency to client security and cheating prevention. In order to preserve as much of the real-time “feel” as possible, the game’s combat focuses around the opportunistic use of a stamina bar which allows the player to sprint, block, interrupt, and escape crowd control. By selectively using these strategic abilities, combat in TES:O feels dynamic, despite adhering to turn-based fundamentals which are critical to MMO design. All classes have access to block, sprint, and crouch."
Basically they outright lied and said FPS combat was impossible in an MMO. Meanwhile: Darkfall, Planetside 2, Mortal Online, etc...
TES games are basically single player themepark MMOs, they have almost nothing in common with sandbox MMOs. In the TES games you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world. In themepark MMOs you go out, do a series of quests, and level up, all while exploring the world.
They have said they are looking at adding FPS style combat, but third person will still be optimal, just like third person is optimal in the single player versions.
FFA PvP? I'll take a DAoC style RvRvR system over FFA PvP any day.
6 skills max? I rarely use more than 6 skills in any TES playthrough. In my last skyrim playthrough I used Attack, Muffle, Invisibility, calm, healing. Thats it. Thats 5 skills, 4 if you don't include attacking. Sure mages use more, but you're not limited to 6 total, just 6 at any given time. Even mages don't use more than 6 skills per mob usually.
Sounds to me like they are sticking to exactly what TES is.
1) Themeparks necessitate you questing in a certain order, where quests have levels assigned to them. Free-roam and sandbox games allow you to go anywhere at any time and take on any quests you like. This makes me believe you have never played any sandbox MMOs or any TES games.
2) Wrong, they said they are looking into improving the first-person view. They've said nothing about combat. It will be tab-targetting, you won;t have to aim or use the environment to your advantage. Also, third-person has never been optimal in any TES games, even Skyrim, where it was better than ever. Todd Howard calls 3rd person "Vanity Mode." It's for looking at how cool your character looks, not actually playing the game.
3) Okay but in TES, with a few notable exceptions since Oblivion, you can hurt or kill anyone in the world and loot everything on their body. The fact that they are NPCs is irrelevant. They could be players too, doesn't really change anything. Let us attack anyone at any time with just and lawful consequences.
4) I think you are mistaking levelled skills for hotbar abilities. No, I KNOW you are.
5) This can only be the case if you have never played any TES game except maybe Redguard.
1) You do have to go in order. You can't say directly assassinate the emperor, you have to go through a quest chain. You can't go directly towards alduin, you have to go through a quest chain.
2) You gain better vision in third person. Call it "vanity mode" all you want, you still get more information playing in third person.
3) Do you realize how retarded that would be in an MMO? It would be impossible to play because everyone would be griefing everyone else and you would never be able to get anything done. It wouldn't last a day as an MMO.
4) No, I listed all the spells I used in my last playthrough with the exception of quest-needed skills such as clear skys ect...
5) 200 hours in skyrim, 650 in oblivion, and can't give you an exact number on morrowind, but its well over 1000.
I don't know should I cry or laugh..
I'll just do both.
Oh god..
1) Quest chains are not level-dependent. Any miscellaneous quests you can start at any time, go anywhere, and you can get to Dagoth Ur in Morrowind in about 20 minutes of playing. You will likely die, but you can get there.
2) I didn't call it "vanity mode," the lead designer of The Elder Scrolls, Todd Howard, did.
3) Do you realize that it has been done in MMOs before? Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EVE Online, Mortal Online, Darkfall. Hell even WoW has PvP servers. It isn't technically griefing if its part of the game. You have to be on your toes and watch your back. Much more exciting and engrossing than the typical care-bear yawn-fest.
4) But in TESO you don't have to equip such abilites, every time you want to change them like TES, you have a hotbar, much like GW2, that has assigned slots. It has 3 weapon skills, a healing ability, two class skills and a special. Nothing. Like. TES.
5) But nothing in Daggerfall or Arena? LOL that's sad. Did you try to play all those hours in Morrowind in 3rd-person? Did you get that 3rd person improved mod?
I take it youve never even heard of games like Ultima Online, Darkfall, Mortal, Xsyon, etc. Hell, have you even played a TES game? Yes you can kill people, but there are also consequences. Same as in the other games I mentioned. Its not everyone running around ganking eachother in the starter zones for eternity because you cant go anywhere without getting attacked. There are alignment systems, war/alliance systems, etc.
1) If they keep a system like is sounds like they are (similar to GW2) you can go do any quest at any level. If you want to go to Orr at level 1 in GW2, you can do the quests there. You will die, but you can attempt to do them.
2) Vanity mode or not, its still optimal.
3) I played eve for 2 years, and you could not destroy NPC space stations which is the closest to being able to kill everything in the world. Sure you could kill people before concord showed up, but like I said earlier I'll take DAoC style RvR ANY DAY over FFA PvP. RvRvR is much more interesting. Their plans for Cyrodill sound amazing so far. GW2's WvWvW with a reason to do it.
4) So instead of pressing 3 then right clicking, you just press 3. Sure its a different combat system, but look at the recent MMORPG that tried an aiming system, TERA, it bombed Latency is too big of an issue for a lot of players. Once we all get superamazing0pinginternet something like that will become feasable, but not it doesn't work all that well.
5) Morrowind in 3rd person just looks odd as fuck due to the waddeling, but it is still optimal because you get a better view of your surroundings, can see around corners, and can in general sneak better.
1) No because the higher level quests don't scale you up, except in WvW, you just scale down to the lower level quests. Not the same. In TES you go anywhere you like and do what you like, when you like. There's no necessity to follow questlines in order to level, nor do you ever need to grind.
2) It's optimal for seeing your surroundings, but good luck hitting anything consistently or picking up items without a great deal of frustration.
3) Well that's just sad that you prefer cookie-cutter arena games to truly amazing dynamic PvP, oh well.
4) TERA's combat was not truly real-time. It was like GW2, play Mortal Online and Darkfall to see actual real-time combat in an MMO with no issues in latency. The "impossible" excuse is utter bullshit.
5) It also plays odd as fuck because trying to be in combat with anything is nearly impossible. Also MW was the first TES game with any kind of 3rd person, the previous games are 100% first person. TESO would be much better if it was FP only and designed around it. By sneak better, you mean cheat, aka "corner-look" without esposing yourself to any enemy. Lame.
Skyrim has ffa pvp?
No, but it is FFA full-loot, it does not have PvP. It is a single-player game, therefore the distinction is moot.
In Skyrim Online however, you can attack and kill other players and take their stuff just like in the vanilla SP game. Of course, you'll get bounty on your head, but it is really the only way it makes sense.
Yes.
No. What you are talking about is the literal meaning of sandbox and that is not What a sandbox MMO is. The others are right, free open world where you are free to do, go where you want is hallmarks of sandbox MMMo.
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So what are you all so worried about.
Wrong, sandbox is and always has meant to be a non linear, open world freeform style of game. Nothing about the word dictates that there "must" mean player created content. I dont know who is responsible for creating this false definition but it really needs to stop.
In a nut shell linearity is the closest and most simplist defining characteristic between sandbox and themepark.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
No because it is a single player game. Can you kill any NPC you want? Yea but that is the only freedom that is restricted in the MMO version because it could never be parlayed (EVER) into an MMO.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.