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Mining in EVE - why has it gone neglected for so long?

TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

One thing that always annoyed me about CCP is that one of the biggest aspects of the game, mining, is one of the least worked on or have content added for that aspect of the game.   Mining, despite what some people may say, could be a very cool aspect and less boring if CCP actually spent a little time, and effort, to make it more engaging.  

Things they could do to make it better are added different colored lasers for what ore you are mining.    This would allow miners to know what ore was being mined by another miner in the same belt by using color coding of the laser mining pulse. 

They could add a better ore gathering system that allowed the miner to see how much ore was left in an asteroid as they mined it in real time.  As it is now it is total guestimation on how much ore is left while you mine the asteroid.   Real time info would make it easier to know when to turn off your mining module for that asteroid and start mining a new one.

How about allowing us to go further in the mining skill system and allow us to increase our ability to mine more ore and to specialize in finding, gathering and refining said ores - and in doing so requires micro management of power input and output of the mining vessels power supplies and such.  

Also, why can't mining vessels have more defensive capabilites?  You'd think that if these people in this universe were so advanced that they would have ways of better defending themselves from induviduals whose only purpose it to blow up a mining vessel - yet as we all know that is not the case and mining barges are one of the easiest targets to suicide gank.   Come on CCP we can only suspend disbelief for so long before it becomes stupid silly.  

Also, how come this games star systems have no orbits?  The planets, moons and asteroid belts are all static.   They never move.   Wouldn't it be a bit more challenging and engaging if it required miners to scan down asteroid belts because their locations changed - or does Newtonian physics not exist in EVE?  For a game that is suppose to be ahrdcore sci-fi you completely miss the boat on many levels.  

How come miners get no new mining ships?

Speaking of ships, why are the only ships getting updgraded and new ships being built combat ships?  When will CCP add say, a mid-ranged freighter?  You have a choice between small and huge.   Do not bring up the Orca either.  The Orca is a specialized mining freighter and requires mining related skills.   How come CCP hasn't put into game a freighter that is around the 350k/m3 to 450k/m3 range?

New mining barges would be good as well.  

So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

 

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Comments

  • cosycosy ColentinaPosts: 3,304Member

    the main reason is alt tab, why cry when you can watch  a movie and mine in a game, doing 2 things on same time is awesome

    BestSigEver :P
    image

  • C.L.O.U.DC.L.O.U.D Butthole, FLPosts: 363Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    One thing that always annoyed me about CCP is that one of the biggest aspects of the game, mining, is one of the least worked on or have content added for that aspect of the game.   Mining, despite what some people may say, could be a very cool aspect and less boring if CCP actually spent a little time, and effort, to make it more engaging.  

    Things they could do to make it better are added different colored lasers for what ore you are mining.    This would allow miners to know what ore was being mined by another miner in the same belt by using color coding of the laser mining pulse. 

    They could add a better ore gathering system that allowed the miner to see how much ore was left in an asteroid as they mined it in real time.  As it is now it is total guestimation on how much ore is left while you mine the asteroid.   Real time info would make it easier to know when to turn off your mining module for that asteroid and start mining a new one.

    How about allowing us to go further in the mining skill system and allow us to increase our ability to mine more ore and to specialize in finding, gathering and refining said ores - and in doing so requires micro management of power input and output of the mining vessels power supplies and such.  

    Also, why can't mining vessels have more defensive capabilites?  You'd think that if these people in this universe were so advanced that they would have ways of better defending themselves from induviduals whose only purpose it to blow up a mining vessel - yet as we all know that is not the case and mining barges are one of the easiest targets to suicide gank.   Come on CCP we can only suspend disbelief for so long before it becomes stupid silly.  

    Also, how come this games star systems have no orbits?  The planets, moons and asteroid belts are all static.   They never move.   Wouldn't it be a bit more challenging and engaging if it required miners to scan down asteroid belts because their locations changed - or does Newtonian physics not exist in EVE?  For a game that is suppose to be ahrdcore sci-fi you completely miss the boat on many levels.  

    How come miners get no new mining ships?

    Speaking of ships, why are the only ships getting updgraded and new ships being built combat ships?  When will CCP add say, a mid-ranged freighter?  You have a choice between small and huge.   Do not bring up the Orca either.  The Orca is a specialized mining freighter and requires mining related skills.   How come CCP hasn't put into game a freighter that is around the 350k/m3 to 450k/m3 range?

    New mining barges would be good as well.  

    So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

     



    1. Why do you need colored lasers, you can just as easily click to see what they're mining.

    2. The ore gathering system is fine right now, I would rather they not try and change something that is fine.

    3.Mining vessels can be built to have a decent tank to them. The reason that they aren't that defensive is because plain and simple..They're mining vessels, they are made to mine and only mine. Do some mining ops with a corp, you should have people protecting you anyway.  You could always mine in a battleship :P which is what most people are doing during hulkageddon.

    4.If all the systems weren't static, the entire bookmarking places in space would be useless. You would save a place in space...then the next time you go back it wouldn't be there anymore. If you want to be able to scan for ore, just search down some gravimetric sites.

    5.It would be cool to have more mining ships..but do we really need more. We already have 6 dedicated to just mining.

     

    Why fix something that isn't broken, just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's bad. It's mining, not all that fun, but it's rewarding. Making isk is fun :D

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by C.L.O.U.D

    Originally posted by Teala

    One thing that always annoyed me about CCP is that one of the biggest aspects of the game, mining, is one of the least worked on or have content added for that aspect of the game.   Mining, despite what some people may say, could be a very cool aspect and less boring if CCP actually spent a little time, and effort, to make it more engaging.  

    Things they could do to make it better are added different colored lasers for what ore you are mining.    This would allow miners to know what ore was being mined by another miner in the same belt by using color coding of the laser mining pulse. 

    They could add a better ore gathering system that allowed the miner to see how much ore was left in an asteroid as they mined it in real time.  As it is now it is total guestimation on how much ore is left while you mine the asteroid.   Real time info would make it easier to know when to turn off your mining module for that asteroid and start mining a new one.

    How about allowing us to go further in the mining skill system and allow us to increase our ability to mine more ore and to specialize in finding, gathering and refining said ores - and in doing so requires micro management of power input and output of the mining vessels power supplies and such.  

    Also, why can't mining vessels have more defensive capabilites?  You'd think that if these people in this universe were so advanced that they would have ways of better defending themselves from induviduals whose only purpose it to blow up a mining vessel - yet as we all know that is not the case and mining barges are one of the easiest targets to suicide gank.   Come on CCP we can only suspend disbelief for so long before it becomes stupid silly.  

    Also, how come this games star systems have no orbits?  The planets, moons and asteroid belts are all static.   They never move.   Wouldn't it be a bit more challenging and engaging if it required miners to scan down asteroid belts because their locations changed - or does Newtonian physics not exist in EVE?  For a game that is suppose to be ahrdcore sci-fi you completely miss the boat on many levels.  

    How come miners get no new mining ships?

    Speaking of ships, why are the only ships getting updgraded and new ships being built combat ships?  When will CCP add say, a mid-ranged freighter?  You have a choice between small and huge.   Do not bring up the Orca either.  The Orca is a specialized mining freighter and requires mining related skills.   How come CCP hasn't put into game a freighter that is around the 350k/m3 to 450k/m3 range?

    New mining barges would be good as well.  

    So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

     



    1. Why do you need colored lasers, you can just as easily click to see what they're mining.

    2. The ore gathering system is fine right now, I would rather they not try and change something that is fine.

    3.Mining vessels can be built to have a decent tank to them. The reason that they aren't that defensive is because plain and simple..They're mining vessels, they are made to mine and only mine. Do some mining ops with a corp, you should have people protecting you anyway.  You could always mine in a battleship :P which is what most people are doing during hulkageddon.

    4.If all the systems weren't static, the entire bookmarking places in space would be useless. You would save a place in space...then the next time you go back it wouldn't be there anymore. If you want to be able to scan for ore, just search down some gravimetric sites.

    5.It would be cool to have more mining ships..but do we really need more. We already have 6 dedicated to just mining.

     

    Why fix something that isn't broken, just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's bad. It's mining, not all that fun, but it's rewarding. Making isk is fun :D



    Mining is broke and has been for awhile now.  If the systems weren't static it would require, oh I dunno a person to actually use the scanning skill to find asteroid belts - imagine that.   Mining vessels in the far future are what makes the EVE universe go around - it requires ore for all those ships that get destroyed.   Doesn't it make sense that a mining ship would be one of the most heavily armored ships to keep people from blowing them up so easily.   It makes absolutely no sense, and you ahve to totally suspend disblief that the people that live in the EVE Universe are so stupid.  

    image
  • NightCloakNightCloak Barrington, ILPosts: 450Member

    Adding some "flavor" and nice-to-haves to mining would be neat. Major changes to the mechanics arent required though. And it would be counter-productive to make mining harder.

     

    The idea about mining vessels being weak isnt bad. It forces the requirement for protection which goes with the theme that EVE is a team game.

     

    So there are pretty much 2 ways to put orbits into the game.

    1: make everything rotate around the sun on a plane or disk and give the illusion of orbit but no real movement.

    2: move things independently of eachother (all 1000's of belts, planets, gates and stations) with 100s of hours of work for very little gain (and likely making bookmarks and bookmarking system very difficult to use, broken or ineffectual)

    I really dont see benefit to orbit unless they include warp collision and interstellar object gravity wells (natural interdictors) and go with the whole super high detail into space navigation. That isnt going to happen. EVE is a super hardcore game. But it is still a game so the mechanics have to cater to fun over realism. Balance between reality and fun is always difficult but if you add impacting realism to a game, it needs to add fun otherwise it only contributes to attrition and loss.

  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member

    are there really players left that think CCP cares about anything other than pvp?  PvP is it for them.  Everything else about the game design is just set up to fuel the pvp.  You can rat in ships that stand a chance in a pvp scenario, good luck saying the same thing about mining.

     

  • SlaverHoundSlaverHound Toronto, ONPosts: 109Member

    I seem to remember that one of them wanted to make mining more like fishing and that an industry overhaul is in the works after the summer expansion.

    The delay in these improvements was covered already and was at the heart of the WIS/store player riots.

    Edit:  Where's the hardcore sci fi idea coming from?  All I've heard from CCP is sci fi magic.

    "Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Why are you guys violencing the asteroids?  What did the rocks ever do to you?

    On a more serious note, yeah mining does need some sort of interaction.  When I created by my second account I tried mining with him and gave up after about 5 minutes.  Mind numbingly boring!

    If they changed the mechanics of mining that could lend itself to more variety of ships.  I don't think they should create more mining boats just for the sake of appeasing the players.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,995Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by C.L.O.U.D


    Originally posted by Teala

    One thing that always annoyed me about CCP is that one of the biggest aspects of the game, mining, is one of the least worked on or have content added for that aspect of the game.   Mining, despite what some people may say, could be a very cool aspect and less boring if CCP actually spent a little time, and effort, to make it more engaging.  

    Things they could do to make it better are added different colored lasers for what ore you are mining.    This would allow miners to know what ore was being mined by another miner in the same belt by using color coding of the laser mining pulse. 

    They could add a better ore gathering system that allowed the miner to see how much ore was left in an asteroid as they mined it in real time.  As it is now it is total guestimation on how much ore is left while you mine the asteroid.   Real time info would make it easier to know when to turn off your mining module for that asteroid and start mining a new one.

    How about allowing us to go further in the mining skill system and allow us to increase our ability to mine more ore and to specialize in finding, gathering and refining said ores - and in doing so requires micro management of power input and output of the mining vessels power supplies and such.  

    Also, why can't mining vessels have more defensive capabilites?  You'd think that if these people in this universe were so advanced that they would have ways of better defending themselves from induviduals whose only purpose it to blow up a mining vessel - yet as we all know that is not the case and mining barges are one of the easiest targets to suicide gank.   Come on CCP we can only suspend disbelief for so long before it becomes stupid silly.  

    Also, how come this games star systems have no orbits?  The planets, moons and asteroid belts are all static.   They never move.   Wouldn't it be a bit more challenging and engaging if it required miners to scan down asteroid belts because their locations changed - or does Newtonian physics not exist in EVE?  For a game that is suppose to be ahrdcore sci-fi you completely miss the boat on many levels.  

    How come miners get no new mining ships?

    Speaking of ships, why are the only ships getting updgraded and new ships being built combat ships?  When will CCP add say, a mid-ranged freighter?  You have a choice between small and huge.   Do not bring up the Orca either.  The Orca is a specialized mining freighter and requires mining related skills.   How come CCP hasn't put into game a freighter that is around the 350k/m3 to 450k/m3 range?

    New mining barges would be good as well.  

    So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

     



    1. Why do you need colored lasers, you can just as easily click to see what they're mining.

    2. The ore gathering system is fine right now, I would rather they not try and change something that is fine.

    3.Mining vessels can be built to have a decent tank to them. The reason that they aren't that defensive is because plain and simple..They're mining vessels, they are made to mine and only mine. Do some mining ops with a corp, you should have people protecting you anyway.  You could always mine in a battleship :P which is what most people are doing during hulkageddon.

    4.If all the systems weren't static, the entire bookmarking places in space would be useless. You would save a place in space...then the next time you go back it wouldn't be there anymore. If you want to be able to scan for ore, just search down some gravimetric sites.

    5.It would be cool to have more mining ships..but do we really need more. We already have 6 dedicated to just mining.

     

    Why fix something that isn't broken, just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's bad. It's mining, not all that fun, but it's rewarding. Making isk is fun :D



    Mining is broke and has been for awhile now.  If the systems weren't static it would require, oh I dunno a person to actually use the scanning skill to find asteroid belts - imagine that.   Mining vessels in the far future are what makes the EVE universe go around - it requires ore for all those ships that get destroyed.   Doesn't it make sense that a mining ship would be one of the most heavily armored ships to keep people from blowing them up so easily.   It makes absolutely no sense, and you ahve to totally suspend disblief that the people that live in the EVE Universe are so stupid.  

    ER, they're not stupid, probably just making the reasonable assumption that like everything in the real world things have to make sense from an economic viewpoint and just like in the real world, military ships are far more heavily armored than their freight hauling counterparts such as oil tankers.

    Fact is, with smart flying the risk vs reward is always relatively low, miners in general have no problem making a profit in EVE even taking into account the inevitable losses that occur.

    Not saying mining doesn't need an overhaul, but I take offense to calling players in EVE stupid about anything, some of the most economically savy people I've ever met.

     

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • AnolevAnolev Seattle, WAPosts: 265Member

    Originally posted by C.L.O.U.D

    Originally posted by Teala

    ... 



    1. Why do you need colored lasers, you can just as easily click to see what they're mining.

    2. The ore gathering system is fine right now, I would rather they not try and change something that is fine.

    3.Mining vessels can be built to have a decent tank to them. The reason that they aren't that defensive is because plain and simple..They're mining vessels, they are made to mine and only mine. Do some mining ops with a corp, you should have people protecting you anyway.  You could always mine in a battleship :P which is what most people are doing during hulkageddon.

    4.If all the systems weren't static, the entire bookmarking places in space would be useless. You would save a place in space...then the next time you go back it wouldn't be there anymore. If you want to be able to scan for ore, just search down some gravimetric sites.

    5.It would be cool to have more mining ships..but do we really need more. We already have 6 dedicated to just mining.

     

    Why fix something that isn't broken, just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's bad. It's mining, not all that fun, but it's rewarding. Making isk is fun :D

     

    ^ This.

    Just because mining in EvE isn't designed with all of the features that you desire, Teala, it doesn't mean it's broken.

    We all have opinions... and all of them are valid... but at the end of the day, don't say something is broken unless it isn't working the way that the developers intended for it to work.  As far as we know, its working exactly the way the developers want it to work. 

    I could state all of my opinions to the counter of yours, but C.L.O.U.D. beat me to it.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

    If only they would make some changes to the game that would make mining a more viable path for mineral collection than, say, fighting drones or refining T1 loot drops...   ;)

    To touch on the points of scanning, new content and all that, what are your thoughts on the collaborative ring mining content that was talked about at Fanfest?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • s1fu71s1fu71 fair oaks, CAPosts: 220Member

    Be patient with this question, I'm still somewhat new to a lot of activities.

    I've been doing exploration in High Sec.

    Is there any real reason to scan down Grav signatures?

    As far as I can tell, they don't hold any differnent ore than the rest of high sec.

     

    It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.

  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Nerfing the Drone Regions is a HUGE boost to mining, just sayin.

     

    There are already valuable mining sites that need to be scanned down in systems.

     

    Oh and the way you rationalize having more armor and defensive capabilities on miners is funny. Hulkagedon must have gotten to you early this year :) - Here's a thought, use your scanner to spot the probes and you won't even need defense on your mining ships (assuming you're in highsec/lowsec), If you're in nullsec, then there's really no reason for you to get ganked.

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    You can already see how much more is left in a roid in realtime, just click your survey scanner.  Miners have received a lot of new ships since I started playing EVE.  They originally had the 3 barges, then they got tech 2 exhumers, and even capital ships like the ORCA and Rorqual.  Problem is mining is boring and always will be.  You could add some minigame stuff to it but odds are it would just make mining more stressful and less relaxing.  Miners typically like to chat or whatever during ops.  Mining ships are easy targets because no one bothers to try and make them hard targets.  Not much you can do with the tech 1 barges, but the exhumers can be fit with a strong tank.  Also, you can mine in ships other than just ore ships quite successfully.  A lot of battleships double as mining ships and can outmine tech 1 barges.  They also are not going to get suicide ganked. 

    In the most recent inferno patch, CCP got rid of drone minerals.  This is the single hugest buff that miners could have hoped for.  A huge amount of minerals in the economy were coming from nullsec drone loot and now mining will once again be the profession providing life blood to the universe. 

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  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by s1fu71

    Be patient with this question, I'm still somewhat new to a lot of activities.

    I've been doing exploration in High Sec.

    Is there any real reason to scan down Grav signatures?

    As far as I can tell, they don't hold any differnent ore than the rest of high sec.

     

    Not quite. If you scan down a Grav site in 0.5, you have a high chance of getting a type of ore in it that is normally found in Lowsec, depending on which empire's space you're in. For example, 0.5 Grav sites in Caldari space often have Omber, which you would never normally find there. Be advised, the belt rat frigates in the Grav site will be tougher than normal as well. Not dangerously, but noticeably.

    Where's the any key?

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    You can already see how much more is left in a roid in realtime, just click your survey scanner.  Miners have received a lot of new ships since I started playing EVE.  They originally had the 3 barges, then they got tech 2 exhumers, and even capital ships like the ORCA and Rorqual.  Problem is mining is boring and always will be.  You could add some minigame stuff to it but odds are it would just make mining more stressful and less relaxing.  Miners typically like to chat or whatever during ops.  Mining ships are easy targets because no one bothers to try and make them hard targets.  Not much you can do with the tech 1 barges, but the exhumers can be fit with a strong tank.  Also, you can mine in ships other than just ore ships quite successfully.  A lot of battleships double as mining ships and can outmine tech 1 barges.  They also are not going to get suicide ganked. 

    In the most recent inferno patch, CCP got rid of drone minerals.  This is the single hugest buff that miners could have hoped for.  A huge amount of minerals in the economy were coming from nullsec drone loot and now mining will once again be the profession providing life blood to the universe. 

    I agree with everything said here, and that part in red is very, very true. It also isn't all of the story; I don't know if it was during the patch or another time recently, but CCP also went on a campaign to block the accounts of miners that were using macros to run the program for them (another name for them were mining botters), as that was one of the (very few) things in Eve that was officially considered illegal. There were apparently a LOT of them. So with the high-producing mining bots gone, and the Drone alloys gone, mineral supply took a nose-dive off a cliff. The economy is already showing the results of this...I think mineral prices doubled inside of a week, which significantly bumped the price of everything else. So for those true miners that do actually sit there watching their ship shoot rocks, their income is skyrocketing and they are partying all the harder for it.

    If you don't call that a boost to the mining profession, I seriously don't know what you would consider a boost.

    Where's the any key?

  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member

    Originally posted by Anolev

    Originally posted by C.L.O.U.D

    Originally posted by Teala

    ... 



    1. Why do you need colored lasers, you can just as easily click to see what they're mining.

    2. The ore gathering system is fine right now, I would rather they not try and change something that is fine.

    3.Mining vessels can be built to have a decent tank to them. The reason that they aren't that defensive is because plain and simple..They're mining vessels, they are made to mine and only mine. Do some mining ops with a corp, you should have people protecting you anyway.  You could always mine in a battleship :P which is what most people are doing during hulkageddon.

    4.If all the systems weren't static, the entire bookmarking places in space would be useless. You would save a place in space...then the next time you go back it wouldn't be there anymore. If you want to be able to scan for ore, just search down some gravimetric sites.

    5.It would be cool to have more mining ships..but do we really need more. We already have 6 dedicated to just mining.

     

    Why fix something that isn't broken, just because it's not fun doesn't mean it's bad. It's mining, not all that fun, but it's rewarding. Making isk is fun :D

     

    ^ This.

    Just because mining in EvE isn't designed with all of the features that you desire, Teala, it doesn't mean it's broken.

    We all have opinions... and all of them are valid... but at the end of the day, don't say something is broken unless it isn't working the way that the developers intended for it to work.  As far as we know, its working exactly the way the developers want it to work. 

    I could state all of my opinions to the counter of yours, but C.L.O.U.D. beat me to it.

    Nothing is more mutually exclusive in eve than mining.  You could aruge pve fitted ships wont do well in pvp , but they stand way more of a chance.

     

  • s1fu71s1fu71 fair oaks, CAPosts: 220Member

     

    @Kiljadaena ;

    Thank  you so much for the reply. I had no idea.

    It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.

  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    You can already see how much more is left in a roid in realtime, just click your survey scanner.  Miners have received a lot of new ships since I started playing EVE.  They originally had the 3 barges, then they got tech 2 exhumers, and even capital ships like the ORCA and Rorqual.  Problem is mining is boring and always will be.  You could add some minigame stuff to it but odds are it would just make mining more stressful and less relaxing.  Miners typically like to chat or whatever during ops.  Mining ships are easy targets because no one bothers to try and make them hard targets.  Not much you can do with the tech 1 barges, but the exhumers can be fit with a strong tank.  Also, you can mine in ships other than just ore ships quite successfully.  A lot of battleships double as mining ships and can outmine tech 1 barges.  They also are not going to get suicide ganked. 

    In the most recent inferno patch, CCP got rid of drone minerals.  This is the single hugest buff that miners could have hoped for.  A huge amount of minerals in the economy were coming from nullsec drone loot and now mining will once again be the profession providing life blood to the universe. 

    I agree with everything said here, and that part in red is very, very true. It also isn't all of the story; I don't know if it was during the patch or another time recently, but CCP also went on a campaign to block the accounts of miners that were using macros to run the program for them (another name for them were mining botters), as that was one of the (very few) things in Eve that was officially considered illegal. There were apparently a LOT of them. So with the high-producing mining bots gone, and the Drone alloys gone, mineral supply took a nose-dive off a cliff. The economy is already showing the results of this...I think mineral prices doubled inside of a week, which significantly bumped the price of everything else. So for those true miners that do actually sit there watching their ship shoot rocks, their income is skyrocketing and they are partying all the harder for it.

    If you don't call that a boost to the mining profession, I seriously don't know what you would consider a boost.



    That has nothing to do with anything I said.  I just learned that CCP killedthe drone minerals which is cool, but that doesn't change the fact that mining is still one of the most non-engaging activities of the game(which is what my post was basically all about - and nothing to do with how much money people make from mining).   Is what I suggested really that to much for your average miner in the game?   I would think many people that actively mine would appreciate it mining more if it was more of a mini-game rather than a activity that requires very little thought by the person performing it.  

    image
  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    You can already see how much more is left in a roid in realtime, just click your survey scanner.  Miners have received a lot of new ships since I started playing EVE.  They originally had the 3 barges, then they got tech 2 exhumers, and even capital ships like the ORCA and Rorqual.  Problem is mining is boring and always will be.  You could add some minigame stuff to it but odds are it would just make mining more stressful and less relaxing.  Miners typically like to chat or whatever during ops.  Mining ships are easy targets because no one bothers to try and make them hard targets.  Not much you can do with the tech 1 barges, but the exhumers can be fit with a strong tank.  Also, you can mine in ships other than just ore ships quite successfully.  A lot of battleships double as mining ships and can outmine tech 1 barges.  They also are not going to get suicide ganked. 

    In the most recent inferno patch, CCP got rid of drone minerals.  This is the single hugest buff that miners could have hoped for.  A huge amount of minerals in the economy were coming from nullsec drone loot and now mining will once again be the profession providing life blood to the universe. 

    I agree with everything said here, and that part in red is very, very true. It also isn't all of the story; I don't know if it was during the patch or another time recently, but CCP also went on a campaign to block the accounts of miners that were using macros to run the program for them (another name for them were mining botters), as that was one of the (very few) things in Eve that was officially considered illegal. There were apparently a LOT of them. So with the high-producing mining bots gone, and the Drone alloys gone, mineral supply took a nose-dive off a cliff. The economy is already showing the results of this...I think mineral prices doubled inside of a week, which significantly bumped the price of everything else. So for those true miners that do actually sit there watching their ship shoot rocks, their income is skyrocketing and they are partying all the harder for it.

    If you don't call that a boost to the mining profession, I seriously don't know what you would consider a boost.

    Wow!  I haven't been keeping on the Eve patches since I left but that sounds great.  Even though I'm sure the botters will find work arounds very soon it's nice to keep them on their toes.  So what do the rats in drone regions drop now?  The russians must be a tad upset (if they still control that area).

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Kiljaedenas


    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    You can already see how much more is left in a roid in realtime, just click your survey scanner.  Miners have received a lot of new ships since I started playing EVE.  They originally had the 3 barges, then they got tech 2 exhumers, and even capital ships like the ORCA and Rorqual.  Problem is mining is boring and always will be.  You could add some minigame stuff to it but odds are it would just make mining more stressful and less relaxing.  Miners typically like to chat or whatever during ops.  Mining ships are easy targets because no one bothers to try and make them hard targets.  Not much you can do with the tech 1 barges, but the exhumers can be fit with a strong tank.  Also, you can mine in ships other than just ore ships quite successfully.  A lot of battleships double as mining ships and can outmine tech 1 barges.  They also are not going to get suicide ganked. 

    In the most recent inferno patch, CCP got rid of drone minerals.  This is the single hugest buff that miners could have hoped for.  A huge amount of minerals in the economy were coming from nullsec drone loot and now mining will once again be the profession providing life blood to the universe. 

    I agree with everything said here, and that part in red is very, very true. It also isn't all of the story; I don't know if it was during the patch or another time recently, but CCP also went on a campaign to block the accounts of miners that were using macros to run the program for them (another name for them were mining botters), as that was one of the (very few) things in Eve that was officially considered illegal. There were apparently a LOT of them. So with the high-producing mining bots gone, and the Drone alloys gone, mineral supply took a nose-dive off a cliff. The economy is already showing the results of this...I think mineral prices doubled inside of a week, which significantly bumped the price of everything else. So for those true miners that do actually sit there watching their ship shoot rocks, their income is skyrocketing and they are partying all the harder for it.

    If you don't call that a boost to the mining profession, I seriously don't know what you would consider a boost.



    That has nothing to do with anything I said.  I just learned that CCP killedthe drone minerals which is cool, but that doesn't change the fact that mining is still one of the most non-engaging activities of the game(which is what my post was basically all about - and nothing to do with how much money people make from mining).   Is what I suggested really that to much for your average miner in the game?   I would think many people that actively mine would appreciate it mining more if it was more of a mini-game rather than a activity that requires very little thought by the person performing it.  

    What do you consider a boost to a profession? I consider it as anything that makes that activity more enjoyable, no matter what the form that boost may take. That could include some kind of modification to the core process of mining to make it more complex or "engaging" as you put it, but people can have more fun from it if the amount of income they gain from the current action is drastically increased. That is why I consider what I said a boost to the profession, despite what you say.

    However, as per what you seem to want, i.e. a more complex or engaging process akin to a minigame...what more do you want? Real world mining isn't exciting either. What do real world miners do? Push a powered drill or smack a pickaxe into a wall and send the chunks they break off down a conveyor or trolley system to a holding station. Oooh, fun. True, the planning and setup stages of a mining operation can be rather complex, and Eve's comparison to this is a corp/alliance leader planning out the belts and ore types they need in a hurry and getting together a good group of miners and haulers to do the extraction...but in both Eve and real life the actual actions taken by each individual miner takes very little thought, the real world one being mainly semi-mindless physical labour. I am NOT saying that real world miners are inherently stupid, far from it, I'm just saying that if they are the ones smacking/drilling the rocks they don't need to use their brains very much.

    So in other words, the actions needed to mine rocks in Eve are of a similar mental difficulty as the actions taken by real world miners. Anything else that would get put in there would seem like excessive fakery for the sake of fun.

    There's also one other thing you may want to consider: a significant chunk of the stuff you can do in Eve can be very intense and stressful, and sometimes players may want to do something that can benefit their overall wealth but don't want to do anything that requires extreme concentration and effort. Mining suits this very well. If going solo (but not afk) they can just go to a belt, start their lasers and then sit back with a book, or shrink the Eve game window a bit and start browsing on the internet, etc. If they mine with a group, they can all chat together on anything they want, perhaps play some kind of minigame together on some other site, whatever. The lack of required thought in Eve's mining can be very refreshing to some.

    Where's the any key?

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    One thing that always annoyed me about CCP is that one of the biggest aspects of the game, mining, is one of the least worked on or have content added for that aspect of the game.   Mining, despite what some people may say, could be a very cool aspect and less boring if CCP actually spent a little time, and effort, to make it more engaging.  

    Things they could do to make it better are added different colored lasers for what ore you are mining.    This would allow miners to know what ore was being mined by another miner in the same belt by using color coding of the laser mining pulse.  This is completely unnecessary. Just look at what rock they are shooting. Adding aspects that have no tangible benefit is a waste of time and money.

    They could add a better ore gathering system that allowed the miner to see how much ore was left in an asteroid as they mined it in real time.  As it is now it is total guestimation on how much ore is left while you mine the asteroid.   Real time info would make it easier to know when to turn off your mining module for that asteroid and start mining a new one. If you're talking about when the rock is still relatively full, just re-activate your survey scanner. If you're talking about when it's nearly empty to the point that you wouldn't need a full cycle to finish it off...isn't that requirement to do a bit of math and guessing in your head a nice little bit of complexity to make it more interesting? The live quantity tracking that you suggest would make mining take even less thought than it does now. Not an improvement.

    How about allowing us to go further in the mining skill system and allow us to increase our ability to mine more ore and to specialize in finding (rather irrelevant), gathering and refining said ores (those last two already exist through the ore-specific refining skills; aside from the obvious benefit to refining they also unlock the ability to use the ore-specific mining crystals, the use of which allows you to mine those specific ores better)- and in doing so requires micro management of power input and output of the mining vessels power supplies and such.  Capacitor usage?

    Also, why can't mining vessels have more defensive capabilites?  You'd think that if these people in this universe were so advanced that they would have ways of better defending themselves from induviduals whose only purpose it to blow up a mining vessel - yet as we all know that is not the case and mining barges are one of the easiest targets to suicide gank.   Come on CCP we can only suspend disbelief for so long before it becomes stupid silly.  You want a non-combat ship to be good at combat? Combat ships are tough because they are specifically designed for combat, and all of the systems needed to make them good at that take up a lot of room on the ship. Can a milk truck dish out or take more punishment than a tank? No, it isn't designed to. But it can carry a crapload more milk than a tank could. Each has their specific role, and they excel at that role. Do you think that real-world generals would send a vital supply transport/extraction vehicle into a warzone completely unprotected, telling their enemies "This is just a mining truck, it can't fight, don't gank it"? Of course they wouldn't; they would have a detachment of soldiers and combat equipment guarding that resource. The gank-a-bility of the mining barges perfectly suites their role.

    Also, how come this games star systems have no orbits?  The planets, moons and asteroid belts are all static.   They never move.   Wouldn't it be a bit more challenging and engaging if it required miners to scan down asteroid belts because their locations changed - or does Newtonian physics not exist in EVE?  For a game that is suppose to be ahrdcore sci-fi you completely miss the boat on many levels.  Do you have any idea how difficult that would be to code and maintain in the 7500+ star systems that Eve has? Having set locations for everything reduces the load on the servers IMMENSLY. One of the reasons Eve is such a great MMO is that it is relatively bug-free and only lags in very large fleet fights. Adding the load of having every player that goes into any system get a revised uplink of the locations of the belts and planets would be a significantly crippling addition to the server lag. No friggin thank you.

    How come miners get no new mining ships? With possibly the one single exception of a dedicated gas harvesting ship, what more could you possibly want? You have 6 dedicated mining ships from ORE, two supporting capital ships, various cruisers and frigates with a mining bonus throughout the races, and over 20 industrial haulers for helping move the ore. How much more would be enough for you?

    Speaking of ships, why are the only ships getting updgraded and new ships being built combat ships? Because combat, both PvP and PvE is what over 90% of the game content revolves around. When will CCP add say, a mid-ranged freighter?  You have a choice between small and huge.   Do not bring up the Orca either.  The Orca is a specialized mining freighter and requires mining related skills.   How come CCP hasn't put into game a freighter that is around the 350k/m3 to 450k/m3 range? Very unnecessary. The only three product shipment methods you need are small but ultra fast (any frigate will do, similar to a small delivery van, delivering with your car directly or perhaps air-freighting something), mid-speed and decent capacity (the subcapital industrial ships, similar to an 18-wheeler truck) and the heavy bulk haulers (freighters, or in the real world a train for over land and an ocean freighter for over sea). You don't need more, and the Eve freighters don't need much more in skill training once you get the racial Industrial skill up to level 5.

    New mining barges would be good as well.  This is a redundant question. You already covered this with your "How come miners get no new mining ships?" above, and the answer to it is still the same as I posted above.

    So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

     

    I decided to go a bit more direct on your statements, see the colored text above.

    Where's the any key?

  • KiljaedenasKiljaedenas New Westminster, BCPosts: 468Member

    Originally posted by dave6660

    Originally posted by Kiljaedenas


    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    You can already see how much more is left in a roid in realtime, just click your survey scanner.  Miners have received a lot of new ships since I started playing EVE.  They originally had the 3 barges, then they got tech 2 exhumers, and even capital ships like the ORCA and Rorqual.  Problem is mining is boring and always will be.  You could add some minigame stuff to it but odds are it would just make mining more stressful and less relaxing.  Miners typically like to chat or whatever during ops.  Mining ships are easy targets because no one bothers to try and make them hard targets.  Not much you can do with the tech 1 barges, but the exhumers can be fit with a strong tank.  Also, you can mine in ships other than just ore ships quite successfully.  A lot of battleships double as mining ships and can outmine tech 1 barges.  They also are not going to get suicide ganked. 

    In the most recent inferno patch, CCP got rid of drone minerals.  This is the single hugest buff that miners could have hoped for.  A huge amount of minerals in the economy were coming from nullsec drone loot and now mining will once again be the profession providing life blood to the universe. 

    I agree with everything said here, and that part in red is very, very true. It also isn't all of the story; I don't know if it was during the patch or another time recently, but CCP also went on a campaign to block the accounts of miners that were using macros to run the program for them (another name for them were mining botters), as that was one of the (very few) things in Eve that was officially considered illegal. There were apparently a LOT of them. So with the high-producing mining bots gone, and the Drone alloys gone, mineral supply took a nose-dive off a cliff. The economy is already showing the results of this...I think mineral prices doubled inside of a week, which significantly bumped the price of everything else. So for those true miners that do actually sit there watching their ship shoot rocks, their income is skyrocketing and they are partying all the harder for it.

    If you don't call that a boost to the mining profession, I seriously don't know what you would consider a boost.

    Wow!  I haven't been keeping on the Eve patches since I left but that sounds great.  Even though I'm sure the botters will find work arounds very soon it's nice to keep them on their toes.  So what do the rats in drone regions drop now?  The russians must be a tad upset (if they still control that area).

    Funny you should ask this, my corp is currently part of an alliance in the Drone regions. From what I've seen so far, the drones have no loot at all. There's still the standard salvaging materials if you use a salvager. The bounties seem slightly higher than average though to compensate for that. And as for the Russians, their control over the region has definitely weakened from what I know.

    Where's the any key?

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Would be nice if mining took a leaf from planetary interaction. Maybe scanning asteroids to find the richest spot to zap, and then having to move your target point around the roid as it depleted.
  • helthroshelthros Miami, FLPosts: 1,449Member

    Originally posted by Banquetto

    Would be nice if mining took a leaf from planetary interaction. Maybe scanning asteroids to find the richest spot to zap, and then having to move your target point around the roid as it depleted.

     

    That's actually not a bad idea and it could be made to be fairly bot-proof too.

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member

    Originally posted by Teala

    Also, why can't mining vessels have more defensive capabilites?  You'd think that if these people in this universe were so advanced that they would have ways of better defending themselves from induviduals whose only purpose it to blow up a mining vessel - yet as we all know that is not the case and mining barges are one of the easiest targets to suicide gank.   Come on CCP we can only suspend disbelief for so long before it becomes stupid silly.  

    Apperently these people are not advanced enough to keep track of planets/belts in orbit -.-

    You want a minig ship to be on par with a combat ship?

    Also, how come this games star systems have no orbits?  The planets, moons and asteroid belts are all static.   They never move.   Wouldn't it be a bit more challenging and engaging if it required miners to scan down asteroid belts because their locations changed - or does Newtonian physics not exist in EVE?  For a game that is suppose to be ahrdcore sci-fi you completely miss the boat on many levels.  

    Why would you need to scan for asteroid belts even if they where in orbit? Why assume that when they have space ships they do not have a system to keep the planets orbit data?

    That is just as selective about physics, and logic, similar to what you try to say CCP are. Like if it would be hard for someone having a hobby-telescope to relocate planets in our solar system.

    Besides that you already have mining belts that you have to scan down, with ore that you don't find in the regular belts.

     

    How come miners get no new mining ships?

    Speaking of ships, why are the only ships getting updgraded and new ships being built combat ships?  When will CCP add say, a mid-ranged freighter?  You have a choice between small and huge.   Do not bring up the Orca either.  The Orca is a specialized mining freighter and requires mining related skills.   How come CCP hasn't put into game a freighter that is around the 350k/m3 to 450k/m3 range?

    New mining barges would be good as well.  

    So I ask the question - when is CCP going to start working on the one aspect of the game that has been neglected for so long?

    Ask CCP instead, they have a forum for ideas. It is also possible to send an evemail to CSM. Ask them, they are the only one that can actually answer. If you have ideas bring them to them.

    I'm most certain you will argue for you cause here... why not to CCP directly?

     

     

    Seriously?

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

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