If it goes like Elder Scrolls Series, it will fail so ugly hard. This game is only good because you can get everything in 100h. A mmo doesnt work that way. Maybe you need there 1000h and thats a huge turnoff.
Anyway Elder Scrolls Online is the worst idea i heard the last 20y. Its gona be like Darfalls and how many play that? 3000 max?
You sound pretty clueless... Great studio, I for one will enjoy this game. Just the world and people who have proven track records is a thumbs up for me.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Here is hoping they can make a perfect MMO RPG like they can make the perfect single player RPG.
When have they ever made a perfect single player game? Skyrim was the pick of the litter in many ways (although overall, I still think Morrowind was far more entertaining), but it was FAR from perfect. In fact, without the modding community, it would have been nigh on unplayable for many of us. An MMO by these folks isn't going to have a devoted and creative community to rely on, to shore up the game's weaknesses.
The new innovations and changes this title should accomplish:
*leaps and bounds in collision detection, allowing more objects in the environment to be interactive
*housing..
*a divergence from the strict trinity of classes.. it should not be limits on what you know, but what you choose to use, that defines different players.
What the Elder Scrolls Online means for MMORPG's? NOTHING. Not a damn thing whatsoever.
See, the Elder Scrolls as a stand alone game is ok. Nothing special like Planescape Torment or Ultima IV but yards better than the psuedo arpgs Dragon Age 2 and The Witcher 2. However, everything that makes the Elder Scrolls special is gone when you shove it into an mmo. No more will we be able to make the character we want, but what Bethesda Dictates. No player housing, means yay get to buy bank slots from Bethesda for the crap they shove in that MIGHT be useful and wont be 2 months from storage. No user generated content means boring quests, boring redundant story lines, lame armor and weapons, and mechanics that for the most part are broken and uninspiring. But hey, we get more Voice Overs that we get to skip through. Good thinking there.
Well if it is exactly like Skyrim the actual elderscrolls game provides actual repeatable storyline/quests etc if the player chooses and such with expanding content PVP & Sub then it could mean that Blizzard and a lot of other little MMORPG companies with not so good management just might take an arrow to the knee.
I am personally waiting to see The Secret World take down Fallen Earth because of the GM's lack of support there, but hope to see more F2P MMO's with bad support and little cashshop games loose profit as well due to new releases like GuildWars2, and TERA for example.
It would also be nice of course to see BioWare loose some of its customers due to the release of ESO then maybe they would all start to listen to what its players want, and get better management.
dont start this negative guessing shit. you or nobody else have ANY idea what the game is like. wait for them to give more info.
Actually, we have some idea, just nothing conclusive. However, when I look outside and see a dark, overcast sky, it doesn't need to be raining yet for me to know it would be wise to bring an umbrella.
We know very little aside from what was leaked, yes it's far too early for the negative brigade to strike up arms against this.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
dont start this negative guessing shit. you or nobody else have ANY idea what the game is like. wait for them to give more info.
Actually, we have some idea, just nothing conclusive. However, when I look outside and see a dark, overcast sky, it doesn't need to be raining yet for me to know it would be wise to bring an umbrella.
We know very little aside from what was leaked, yes it's far too early for the negative brigade to strike up arms against this.
Somebody forgot to tell them that.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
"Making player housing the way fans expect is too hard to implement in an MMO, so Zenimax has no plans to let you accrue realestate."
So ZeniMax is saying they arent talented or skilled enough to do it?
SOE has done it TWICE. SWG (open world housing) and EQ2 (instanced housing)
Both worked very well.
Why do people ignore the clear problems SWG's housing had for the long term look and feel of the game? Ghost towns all over were epic...
As for instanced housing, yes that's really believable...
You must be joking right? The reason why there were ghost towns was because of the NGE. Before that crap happened, player cities were jammed packed and full and players trying to find places to start up new cities had problems. Build a freaking mmorpg right and don't screw over the playerbase with huge sweeping changes and your long term housing problems will never happen.
Heres to hoping all the carebears don't dumb it down, allow PKing and Griefing and make sure everyone knows the rulset before launch.
PK'ing of course, but why greifing? By definition you're trying to cause someone grief and ruin their game. Why would a game company want to allow that?
Why would someone even want to do that to another player?
Heres to hoping all the carebears don't dumb it down, allow PKing and Griefing and make sure everyone knows the rulset before launch.
PK'ing of course, but why greifing? By definition you're trying to cause someone grief and ruin their game. Why would a game company want to allow that?
Why would someone even want to do that to another player?
Human beings really suck sometimes.
Hahah..you post on mmorpg.com and still wondering about that? we all grief each other on these forums on daily basis.... yes even you. lol
Heres to hoping all the carebears don't dumb it down, allow PKing and Griefing and make sure everyone knows the rulset before launch.
PK'ing of course, but why greifing? By definition you're trying to cause someone grief and ruin their game. Why would a game company want to allow that?
Why would someone even want to do that to another player?
Human beings really suck sometimes.
Hahah..you post on mmorpg.com and still wondering about that? we all grief each other on these forums on daily basis.... yes even you. lol
But that's what we're here for, mutual flagellation. And besides, I keep most of my vitriole for the other animals. Harmless non-combatants generally get a free pass, so long as they don't flag.
"Making player housing the way fans expect is too hard to implement in an MMO, so Zenimax has no plans to let you accrue realestate."
So ZeniMax is saying they arent talented or skilled enough to do it?
SOE has done it TWICE. SWG (open world housing) and EQ2 (instanced housing)
Both worked very well.
Why do people ignore the clear problems SWG's housing had for the long term look and feel of the game? Ghost towns all over were epic...
As for instanced housing, yes that's really believable...
You must be joking right? The reason why there were ghost towns was because of the NGE. Before that crap happened, player cities were jammed packed and full and players trying to find places to start up new cities had problems. Build a freaking mmorpg right and don't screw over the playerbase with huge sweeping changes and your long term housing problems will never happen.
Uhmm what part of that did you not understand? ANd we had ghost towns on Bloodfin from patch 9 onward which is where the games decline began, and never stopped.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People come to expect certain things from TES games. When a developer purposfully omits those things from the game, it shows a complete lack of understanding of their fanbase.
No player housing because it's too hard to implement.
No warewolves or vampires because it's too hard to balance them.
No Radiant AI because apparently it would be too frustrating for some players.
No real time combat because apparently "the reality of network latency" prevents them from implementing it. On a side note, how many FPS and real time combat MMOs have to be released before that stops being an excuse? Planetside had real time FPS combat in 2003!
Not to mention that if you read those magazine scans, it seems like a rip off of GW2 with a bit of stuff sprinkled from other games.
-Hubbless quest design. You explore the world and stuff happens AKA GW2's hearts quests and dynamic events (maybe).
-No holy trinity.
-Smaller hotbar with skills you can freely change outside of combat.
-Equiped weapon determines the first 2 abilities, you pick from a few class skills and the last is an elite... err I'm sorry, ultimate ability.
-Combo attacks with other classes. They literally used the same example as GW2 did with the mage setting a firewall and a warrior doing a "whirlwind" type attack and sending fireballs flying all over the place.
-Waypoint travel system.
-Endurance based dodge and block system.
-3 faction open world PvP in a separate zone with farms that create supply needed for forts and siege weapons. Though granted, 3 faction PvP is more of a DAoC thing.
-Emperor can be elected (TERA).
If I want to play GW2, I'll play GW2. When it comes to a TES game, I expect it to be a TES game.
You know, I agree with everything you say. I wanted to be positive about it, but they seem to really have no idea about their fanbase after all. I should just give up on MMOs. They are one big pipe dream.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
If they take their time and ensure that it is done right, similarlly to Anet's GW2, then yes, ESO will be epic beyond anything we've ever seen before. But... and its a big BUT... if they pull the same sh*t as they did with LOTRO, WAR and SWTOR, then ESO will be just another huge and epic dissapointment.
The danger with making mmorpgs based on hugely popular franchises is that game becoming heavily dependent on the franchise and not in the game itself. SWTOR is the best example.
Bethesda, if you're reading this please give Anet a call and get some tips from them. Avoid EA!
<rollseyes>
While we're at it, maybe we can have President Obama give ArenaNet a call to get some tips on how to run the country. Or maybe we can get the Cancer Institute to call ArenaNet to get some tips on how to cure cancer.
Gimme a break...
Those are both excellent suggestions. I do hope they take your advice.
They are deviating so far from the key features of what make Elder Scrolls special, that it is in insult to their fans.
Can you believe their comment about Player Housing??? It is not possible to provide player housing in an MMO in the way players wish to have it???
My god, Star Wars Galaxies and Vanguard can do it 8 and 6 years ago... but the freaking Elder Scrolls Online gave up without even an attempt?
They have left the skill system behind for a class based system???
They feel that the NPC AI from Elder Scrolls single player games which would perhaps have NPC's present during the daytime and somewhere else at night would not work in an MMO.
What the hell is the budget for this game? Less than Darkfall?
What an utter disapointment and insult to the name of the brand. This is such a poor reproduction that it is almost criminaly misleading advertising by naming it Elder Scrolls Online.
People come to expect certain things from TES games. When a developer purposfully omits those things from the game, it shows a complete lack of understanding of their fanbase.
No player housing because it's too hard to implement.
No warewolves or vampires because it's too hard to balance them.
No Radiant AI because apparently it would be too frustrating for some players.
No real time combat because apparently "the reality of network latency" prevents them from implementing it. On a side note, how many FPS and real time combat MMOs have to be released before that stops being an excuse? Planetside had real time FPS combat in 2003!
Not to mention that if you read those magazine scans, it seems like a rip off of GW2 with a bit of stuff sprinkled from other games.
-Hubbless quest design. You explore the world and stuff happens AKA GW2's hearts quests and dynamic events (maybe).
-No holy trinity.
-Smaller hotbar with skills you can freely change outside of combat.
-Equiped weapon determines the first 2 abilities, you pick from a few class skills and the last is an elite... err I'm sorry, ultimate ability.
-Combo attacks with other classes. They literally used the same example as GW2 did with the mage setting a firewall and a warrior doing a "whirlwind" type attack and sending fireballs flying all over the place.
-Waypoint travel system.
-Endurance based dodge and block system.
-3 faction open world PvP in a separate zone with farms that create supply needed for forts and siege weapons. Though granted, 3 faction PvP is more of a DAoC thing.
-Emperor can be elected (TERA).
If I want to play GW2, I'll play GW2. When it comes to a TES game, I expect it to be a TES game.
You know, I agree with everything you say. I wanted to be positive about it, but they seem to really have no idea about their fanbase after all. I should just give up on MMOs. They are one big pipe dream.
I just hope that this MMO doesn't mean an end for single player TES games. I really do like them.
Well, to give credit to ES fans; judging by the responses on the official forums over the years, the last thing they ever wanted was an ES MMO, and at most an ES with co-op. So maybe Zenimax isn't even trying to make an MMO for their fans anyway.
I really don't know how so many already have such a clear opinion about a MMO we barely know anything of? I mean, I dislike the news because it probably means no more single player games, which would suck. And the hero engine is in a bad reputation since SWTOR.
But other than that, I see no reason to love or hate this news. This info is all very limited. In the end, only trying out a game really shows how good or bad it is.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I really don't know how so many already have such a clear opinion about a MMO we barely know anything of? I mean, I dislike the news because it probably means no more single player games, which would suck. And the hero engine is in a bad reputation since SWTOR.
But other than that, I see no reason to love or hate this news. This info is all very limited. In the end, only trying out a game really shows how good or bad it is.
People feel strongly about it because it's does not have the features we've come to associate with a proper TES game. At least I do. And the Hero Engine is not helping either.
I expect more shoddy work from Bethesda. Level 45 and I beat the main story in Skyrim....the rest is just boring and it still has tons of stability issues. Thanks to the mod community, it's better than what it would be. Still, I don't trust Bethesda anymore after failrim.
If you are playing an Elder Scrolls game to "Beat it", you are doing it wrong.
I got stuck in that mindset. Had been awhlie since Oblivion, and I was used to playing games where the point was to plow through them, to "beat it." So I played Skyrim for about 50 hours, then got bored.
Took several months off, then due to not wanting to log back into ME3, and TOR epically failing, I fired up Skyrim, and resolved to play it like I did Morrowwind and Oblivion. You had "quests" to do, but on your way to that quest point, head into every dungeon you find. Read every bit of lore you find in that dungeon. Talk to people you come across. Or just follow someone. See Imperials taking a Stormcloak away? Follow them. Follow them through a small village, back into the wilderness. Ambush them. Then when you think about letting the Stormcloak guy go, wack him to.
Then after 3 hours, go "oh shit, didn't I have some quest I was supposed to get back to?" Oh look, a dragon fighting mammoths and giants!
In other words, if the Elder Scrolls MMO is to be good, they need to avoid pleasing players akin to yourself like the bloody plague.
Who's making the game? If its Todd Howard and company i will get excited but if its some stupid online division of Zenimax filled with old mmo developers then ill pass.
Last I checked Todd Howard had no interest in making a Elder Scrolls MMO. Either they twisted his arm or got his go ahead to make the game with a completely new studio with the game set in a time period that Todd would never use in his games.
Todd Howard has nothing to do with this besides giving them some "Lore Guidance" according to the info we have so far. It looks like Zenimax Online is developing this seperately and the core TES team at Bethesda Softworks has little to do with it. Todd did state in one of the Skyrim interviews that they are already in the very early pre development stage of the next single player TES game so there is hope that this won't effect the TES series at all and will be more of an "Ugly Stepbrother" of the series. Kinda like the mobile games and Redguard was between Daggerfall and Morrowind.
Bren
I hope ESO does good, but they still need to make an Elder Scrolls VI. Especially if, following the DB story, there is no longer an Emperor.
Though at the same time, I wouldn't mind them chronicling the rise of Tiber Septim, or even further back into the second or even first age as well. That's the thing with The Elder Scrolls Lore, if you bother to read it. There's a ton of material to mine. It is akin to a story they've been developing for over 20 years now.
Here is hoping they can make a perfect MMO RPG like they can make the perfect single player RPG.
When have they ever made a perfect single player game? Skyrim was the pick of the litter in many ways (although overall, I still think Morrowind was far more entertaining), but it was FAR from perfect. In fact, without the modding community, it would have been nigh on unplayable for many of us. An MMO by these folks isn't going to have a devoted and creative community to rely on, to shore up the game's weaknesses.
I think what Morrowind had was actually compelling characters. Oblivion and Skyrim both had compelling worlds (Oblivion more in its quest lines, Skyrim in its randomness built into the world), but I haven't found anyone with as amibigous a nature as Vivec in the later TES games. You could view Vivec as an evil souless SOB or as a benevolent divinity, and depending on which side of the coin you saw it from, you'd be right. He was a fascinating character. Not neccessarily ally or villian, he was just "there" dominating his world. Oblivion came close with the Count of Skingrad, but that should've been developed more.
Done properly, this could be the MMO that breaks WoW's hegemony. The world of the Elder Scrolls is so richly developed, it's just a matter of using it to its fullest to develop a deep and interesting MMO. I hope that the character creation system goes back to the early games where there were plenty of classes and races to choose. And please, don't launch the game until the game-breaking bugs are removed, a meaningful open beta is run, and listen to the players' feedback.
Comments
You sound pretty clueless... Great studio, I for one will enjoy this game. Just the world and people who have proven track records is a thumbs up for me.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
When have they ever made a perfect single player game? Skyrim was the pick of the litter in many ways (although overall, I still think Morrowind was far more entertaining), but it was FAR from perfect. In fact, without the modding community, it would have been nigh on unplayable for many of us. An MMO by these folks isn't going to have a devoted and creative community to rely on, to shore up the game's weaknesses.
I think I just Nerdgasm'd in my shorts...
The "sandbox" potential that this could have is... well...
Be right back, have to change my shorts.
The new innovations and changes this title should accomplish:
*leaps and bounds in collision detection, allowing more objects in the environment to be interactive
*housing..
*a divergence from the strict trinity of classes.. it should not be limits on what you know, but what you choose to use, that defines different players.
What the Elder Scrolls Online means for MMORPG's? NOTHING. Not a damn thing whatsoever.
See, the Elder Scrolls as a stand alone game is ok. Nothing special like Planescape Torment or Ultima IV but yards better than the psuedo arpgs Dragon Age 2 and The Witcher 2. However, everything that makes the Elder Scrolls special is gone when you shove it into an mmo. No more will we be able to make the character we want, but what Bethesda Dictates. No player housing, means yay get to buy bank slots from Bethesda for the crap they shove in that MIGHT be useful and wont be 2 months from storage. No user generated content means boring quests, boring redundant story lines, lame armor and weapons, and mechanics that for the most part are broken and uninspiring. But hey, we get more Voice Overs that we get to skip through. Good thinking there.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Why do people ignore the clear problems SWG's housing had for the long term look and feel of the game? Ghost towns all over were epic...
As for instanced housing, yes that's really believable...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well if it is exactly like Skyrim the actual elderscrolls game provides actual repeatable storyline/quests etc if the player chooses and such with expanding content PVP & Sub then it could mean that Blizzard and a lot of other little MMORPG companies with not so good management just might take an arrow to the knee.
I am personally waiting to see The Secret World take down Fallen Earth because of the GM's lack of support there, but hope to see more F2P MMO's with bad support and little cashshop games loose profit as well due to new releases like GuildWars2, and TERA for example.
It would also be nice of course to see BioWare loose some of its customers due to the release of ESO then maybe they would all start to listen to what its players want, and get better management.
We know very little aside from what was leaked, yes it's far too early for the negative brigade to strike up arms against this.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Somebody forgot to tell them that.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
You must be joking right? The reason why there were ghost towns was because of the NGE. Before that crap happened, player cities were jammed packed and full and players trying to find places to start up new cities had problems. Build a freaking mmorpg right and don't screw over the playerbase with huge sweeping changes and your long term housing problems will never happen.
Why would someone even want to do that to another player?
Human beings really suck sometimes.
Hahah..you post on mmorpg.com and still wondering about that? we all grief each other on these forums on daily basis.... yes even you. lol
But that's what we're here for, mutual flagellation. And besides, I keep most of my vitriole for the other animals. Harmless non-combatants generally get a free pass, so long as they don't flag.
Uhmm what part of that did you not understand? ANd we had ghost towns on Bloodfin from patch 9 onward which is where the games decline began, and never stopped.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You know, I agree with everything you say. I wanted to be positive about it, but they seem to really have no idea about their fanbase after all. I should just give up on MMOs. They are one big pipe dream.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Those are both excellent suggestions. I do hope they take your advice.
They are deviating so far from the key features of what make Elder Scrolls special, that it is in insult to their fans.
Can you believe their comment about Player Housing??? It is not possible to provide player housing in an MMO in the way players wish to have it???
My god, Star Wars Galaxies and Vanguard can do it 8 and 6 years ago... but the freaking Elder Scrolls Online gave up without even an attempt?
They have left the skill system behind for a class based system???
They feel that the NPC AI from Elder Scrolls single player games which would perhaps have NPC's present during the daytime and somewhere else at night would not work in an MMO.
What the hell is the budget for this game? Less than Darkfall?
What an utter disapointment and insult to the name of the brand. This is such a poor reproduction that it is almost criminaly misleading advertising by naming it Elder Scrolls Online.
I just hope that this MMO doesn't mean an end for single player TES games. I really do like them.
Well, to give credit to ES fans; judging by the responses on the official forums over the years, the last thing they ever wanted was an ES MMO, and at most an ES with co-op. So maybe Zenimax isn't even trying to make an MMO for their fans anyway.
I really don't know how so many already have such a clear opinion about a MMO we barely know anything of? I mean, I dislike the news because it probably means no more single player games, which would suck. And the hero engine is in a bad reputation since SWTOR.
But other than that, I see no reason to love or hate this news. This info is all very limited. In the end, only trying out a game really shows how good or bad it is.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
People feel strongly about it because it's does not have the features we've come to associate with a proper TES game. At least I do. And the Hero Engine is not helping either.
If you are playing an Elder Scrolls game to "Beat it", you are doing it wrong.
I got stuck in that mindset. Had been awhlie since Oblivion, and I was used to playing games where the point was to plow through them, to "beat it." So I played Skyrim for about 50 hours, then got bored.
Took several months off, then due to not wanting to log back into ME3, and TOR epically failing, I fired up Skyrim, and resolved to play it like I did Morrowwind and Oblivion. You had "quests" to do, but on your way to that quest point, head into every dungeon you find. Read every bit of lore you find in that dungeon. Talk to people you come across. Or just follow someone. See Imperials taking a Stormcloak away? Follow them. Follow them through a small village, back into the wilderness. Ambush them. Then when you think about letting the Stormcloak guy go, wack him to.
Then after 3 hours, go "oh shit, didn't I have some quest I was supposed to get back to?" Oh look, a dragon fighting mammoths and giants!
In other words, if the Elder Scrolls MMO is to be good, they need to avoid pleasing players akin to yourself like the bloody plague.
I hope ESO does good, but they still need to make an Elder Scrolls VI. Especially if, following the DB story, there is no longer an Emperor.
Though at the same time, I wouldn't mind them chronicling the rise of Tiber Septim, or even further back into the second or even first age as well. That's the thing with The Elder Scrolls Lore, if you bother to read it. There's a ton of material to mine. It is akin to a story they've been developing for over 20 years now.
I think what Morrowind had was actually compelling characters. Oblivion and Skyrim both had compelling worlds (Oblivion more in its quest lines, Skyrim in its randomness built into the world), but I haven't found anyone with as amibigous a nature as Vivec in the later TES games. You could view Vivec as an evil souless SOB or as a benevolent divinity, and depending on which side of the coin you saw it from, you'd be right. He was a fascinating character. Not neccessarily ally or villian, he was just "there" dominating his world. Oblivion came close with the Count of Skingrad, but that should've been developed more.
Done properly, this could be the MMO that breaks WoW's hegemony. The world of the Elder Scrolls is so richly developed, it's just a matter of using it to its fullest to develop a deep and interesting MMO. I hope that the character creation system goes back to the early games where there were plenty of classes and races to choose. And please, don't launch the game until the game-breaking bugs are removed, a meaningful open beta is run, and listen to the players' feedback.