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Will the fans who don't approve of this MMO still play?

24

Comments

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,912Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by troublmaker

     

     I know Zenimax Studios Online is making this but it comes with consent and direction from Bethesda Softworks.

     

    Do you have a source for this?  I'd like to read it.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • EduardoASGEduardoASG AzoresPosts: 832Member

    too soon to decide anything.

    Need to see what they gonna implement first.. but  the use of Hero Engine.. worries me.

    ~ D R A G 0 N . S L A Y E R S ~ Aion, AoC, AC, AO, DDO, Eve, Eq2, GW, MW3, L1&2, RF, RIFT, SWG, SWTOR, TR, UO, WOW, WAR

  • NethermancerNethermancer Toronto, ONPosts: 520Member

    I am a huge ES fan but there is no way ill play this if its just a run of the mill WoW style mmo.

    Playing: PO, EVE
    Waiting for: WoD
    Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
    Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,641Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Evolution8

    I for one am really looking forward to this, have been for years, but all the negative feedback is overwhelming, even though a large part of the ES fanbase disapproves of this game, will you still play it? I honestly think even though the fanbase is a bit in denial, they will still play it, therefore this game will be a success no matter what happens, anyone else agree?

     

    All I can say is I know it's truthfully fallen off my follow list.

    I have no axe to grind about it, or campaign to wage, it just dosen't appeal to me from the feature's list.

    I am just done with gear/ lvl based PvP and raids. neither of these are attractive to me anymore.

    I really cannot see how this game will stand up to the appeal and feature list of Archeage tbh. Both look likely for next year (maybe) and that could put them right up each other.

     

    Ready to wage the TES vs AA fan wars everyone? ;)

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member

    Based on the, admittedly, very little info that leaked it looks like I'll be passing on this one.

    My main gripes with the game:

    1) tab-target combat; I'm sorry but we are in 2012 and any MMO that wants to replace WoW in its throne must do better. MUCH better.

    2) HERO engine. Apparently there is a cap to what HERO engine can do in terms of visuals. If the game  world is anything less than Skyrim-quality, then one of the main features I enjoy in ES games, exploration, will be lost. I can spend literally hours in Skyrim just wandering about, enjoying the landscapes. The few pictures that leaked reminded me of SWTOR and Rift. And these are games that are, well, "bland" visually.

    3) No housing? c'mon, seriously.

     

    I can live with the classes and no jack-of-all-trades character building approach, but the three above are really unacceptable for a TES game.

     

  • SilverbarrSilverbarr AberdeenPosts: 306Member

    Originally posted by Galadourn

    2) HERO engine. Apparently there is a cap to what HERO engine can do in terms of visuals. If the game  world is anything less than Skyrim-quality, then one of the main features I enjoy in ES games, exploration, will be lost. I can spend literally hours in Skyrim just wandering about, enjoying the landscapes. The few pictures that leaked reminded me of SWTOR and Rift. And these are games that are, well, "bland" visually.

    There will be many. many years before ANY MMO can have Skyrim-esque graphics, if you know a game that is currently available that does have such capabilties I would love to see it :)

     

    Also, something everyone seems to forget about TES is that there were classes... until Skyrim ;) yes levelling was skill-based, but classes were an integral part of TES lore and games until Skyrim was released.

     

    M

    "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
    - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon

    We know next to nothing about the game yet.  What type of combat system does it have?  Is there crafting?  What will the PvP be like?   How big is the game world.  How can anyone possibly judge a game when so very little information, other than it is being made with the Hero Engine and might be a themepark based gam.   We really do not know a lot about it.

    image
  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    Originally posted by Teala

    We know next to nothing about the game yet.  What type of combat system does it have?  Is there crafting?  What will the PvP be like?   How big is the game world.  How can anyone possibly judge a game when so very little information, other than it is being made with the Hero Engine and might be a themepark based gam.   We really do not know a lot about it.

    The info is already leaked and scans of the article about it are all over the internet. It is a themepark.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by Teala

    We know next to nothing about the game yet.  What type of combat system does it have?  Is there crafting?  What will the PvP be like?   How big is the game world.  How can anyone possibly judge a game when so very little information, other than it is being made with the Hero Engine and might be a themepark based gam.   We really do not know a lot about it.

    Whats in. Whats out

    http://d27vj430nutdmd.cloudfront.net/10122/110334/6c166b64177fa06acae01a9c48f98ce43d30e586.pdf

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
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    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
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  • DrakxiiDrakxii Waxahachie, TXPosts: 594Member

    I have bought  morrowind, oblivion, and skyrim but seeing as ESO aiming to be yet another themepark MMO, I won't play it unless it's basically the best themepark game ever.(better then WoW BC era) Thought had it teied to be at all sandparky I would have bought it without a thought.

     

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • SilverbarrSilverbarr AberdeenPosts: 306Member

    Originally posted by Xzen

    Originally posted by Teala

    We know next to nothing about the game yet.  What type of combat system does it have?  Is there crafting?  What will the PvP be like?   How big is the game world.  How can anyone possibly judge a game when so very little information, other than it is being made with the Hero Engine and might be a themepark based gam.   We really do not know a lot about it.

    The info is already leaked and scans of the article about it are all over the internet. It is a themepark.

    "The in-game world will feature the entire environments from Skyrim to Morrowind, however the map will not be entirely open for exploration, as certain areas are planned to be used for future expansions. Cyrodiil will make for the main capital of the raging war, where players can engage in endgame PvP."

     

    I'm not entirely sure that means Themepark to be honest, sounds more like open-world? Will wait and see when more information becomes available though. Sure it says it's "not entirely open for exploration" but it might not necessarily mean funneled gameplay... at least I hope haha.

     

    M

    "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
    - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common

    Without user mods and user made content I really don't see this game being all that special.  Arena the Elder Scrolls was something different and unique.  Since then they have refined and simplified the formula while taking away from the core game.  There can be no argument, I believe, that Bethesda creates beautiful full worlds with lots of nifty stuff in different corners.  That is where their skills end tho, imo.  Without the user community, without the user generated content you are left with a mediocre game with some of the most horribad controls and character animations that have been seen since 1998.  I see an epic fail coming from BethSoft as far as we the gamers are concerned and a windfall for bethesda because a whole slew of people will buy it and then cancel a couple months in.

     

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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Galadourn

    Based on the, admittedly, very little info that leaked it looks like I'll be passing on this one.

    My main gripes with the game:

    1) tab-target combat; I'm sorry but we are in 2012 and any MMO that wants to replace WoW in its throne must do better. MUCH better.

    2) HERO engine. Apparently there is a cap to what HERO engine can do in terms of visuals. If the game  world is anything less than Skyrim-quality, then one of the main features I enjoy in ES games, exploration, will be lost. I can spend literally hours in Skyrim just wandering about, enjoying the landscapes. The few pictures that leaked reminded me of SWTOR and Rift. And these are games that are, well, "bland" visually.

    3) No housing? c'mon, seriously.

     I can live with the classes and no jack-of-all-trades character building approach, but the three above are really unacceptable for a TES game.

     I hate to say this but your listed concerns dont' really hold much water. Well, other than they are your concerns of course.

    "Tab" targettnig, while some people dont' like it, is not antiquated. It's just another type of targetting. Reticule targeting in games has been around for a long time. Maybe not in mmo's but in other games. There are even people who like tab targetting because it makes the combat about something else other than twitch. I know this is hard to fathom but not everyone is cabable of twitch combat. As a point of note, I'm currently playing Tera and lovign it. I have nothign but good things to say about the targetted combat. This still doesn't mean that I can't jump into a tab target game and enjoy myself.

    While I"m dissapointed at the 100 vs 100 battles for keeps, I have to say you are way off in your assessment fo "Skyrim Level graphics".

    I can't name one game (and yes I'm thinking of AoC and even Tera to a certain extent) that has Skyrim level graphics. In Tera's beta they ran a stress test event where as many players thta cuold come could participate in an invasion of the main city.

    Now, I'm running a veyr good rig and I still had to turn my graphhics down to even hope to participate. Tera's "graphics" (not talking art design) are not as good as skyrim's graphics. Sorry but we are not there yet.

    As far as the housing, I think people are not really looking deeper into the meaning. Sadly this doesn't surprise me.

    It's not that they can't put housing in. I repeat: IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T PUT HOUSING IN.

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

    I'm as much dissapointed in the directoin they took this game but it's not that their explanations don't make sense. They do. What they've done is taken the elderscrolls games and converted them to mmo sensibilities. Part of this makes sense because these games cost so much to make they have to make their money back. And part of it is that some things just don't work in an mmo settting.

    But this is not a surprise to me. I've always suspected that any Elderscrolls game turned mmo was going to suffer in the translation.

     

  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common

    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    Originally posted by Teala

    We know next to nothing about the game yet.  What type of combat system does it have?  Is there crafting?  What will the PvP be like?   How big is the game world.  How can anyone possibly judge a game when so very little information, other than it is being made with the Hero Engine and might be a themepark based gam.   We really do not know a lot about it.

    Whats in. Whats out

    http://d27vj430nutdmd.cloudfront.net/10122/110334/6c166b64177fa06acae01a9c48f98ce43d30e586.pdf

    Wow, that PDF doesn't really do a lot to make people feel warm and fuzzy.  Stealth is in but "still working on the form"?  Player housing is too "hard" to do?  No fast travel, but hey they are going to do full voice overs!  Yay?  I smell something and it ain't teen spirit :D

    image

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  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common

    Originally posted by Sovrath

     

    It's not that they can't put housing in. I repeat: IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T PUT HOUSING IN.

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

    I'm as much dissapointed in the directoin they took this game but it's not that their explanations don't make sense. They do. What they've done is taken the elderscrolls games and converted them to mmo sensibilities. Part of this makes sense because these games cost so much to make they have to make their money back. And part of it is that some things just don't work in an mmo settting.

    But this is not a surprise to me. I've always suspected that any Elderscrolls game turned mmo was going to suffer in the translation.

     

    Star Wars Galaxies, a decade ago, had player housing and cities.  Multiple lay outs, multiple styles.  Houses for rich and for poor.  City building like shuttle ports, banks and guild halls.  All of which could be customized and decorated to your heart's content.  Yeah, too hard.  LOL.

    image

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,904Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by severius

    Originally posted by Sovrath


     

    It's not that they can't put housing in. I repeat: IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T PUT HOUSING IN.

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

    I'm as much dissapointed in the directoin they took this game but it's not that their explanations don't make sense. They do. What they've done is taken the elderscrolls games and converted them to mmo sensibilities. Part of this makes sense because these games cost so much to make they have to make their money back. And part of it is that some things just don't work in an mmo settting.

    But this is not a surprise to me. I've always suspected that any Elderscrolls game turned mmo was going to suffer in the translation.

     

    Star Wars Galaxies, a decade ago, had player housing and cities.  Multiple lay outs, multiple styles.  Houses for rich and for poor.  City building like shuttle ports, banks and guild halls.  All of which could be customized and decorated to your heart's content.  Yeah, too hard.  LOL.

    ANd it was a pain in the ass to maintain, maybe they don't want to deal with 100,000 defunct homes somewhere down the road? Sovarth said it pretty well above. Sure they can do it, doesn't mean they should. They could also do it instanced style (EQ2) where 100,000 share the smae house model in the world. it makes perfect sense to me why they don't want to do it.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

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  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Teala

    We know next to nothing about the game yet.  What type of combat system does it have?  Is there crafting?  What will the PvP be like?   How big is the game world.  How can anyone possibly judge a game when so very little information, other than it is being made with the Hero Engine and might be a themepark based gam.   We really do not know a lot about it.

    Combat is tab target, hotbar ability system, with finese build up for use of an elite skill all in third person.

    PVP The three factions:

    - Argonians, Nords and Dunmer



    - Khajiit, Altmer and Bosmer



    - Redguard, Bretons and Orcs

    Elsewyr, Summerset Isle and Skyrim  also Cyrodiil will be the main Player versus Player area.

    Crafting, alchemy, and soul gems will be included.

    http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/05/04/some-elder-scrolls-online-details-to-pair-with-that-new-trailer/

    http://news.softpedia.com/news/ZeniMax-Offers-World-and-Mechanics-Details-on-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-267715.shtml

    http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1354953/elder_scrolls_online_preview_details_pvp_quests_combat_factions.html

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/04/elder-scrolls-online-leaks-flood-the-web/

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    While I"m dissapointed at the 100 vs 100 battles for keeps, I have to say you are way off in your assessment fo "Skyrim Level graphics".

    I can't name one game (and yes I'm thinking of AoC and even Tera to a certain extent) that has Skyrim level graphics. In Tera's beta they ran a stress test event where as many players thta cuold come could participate in an invasion of the main city.

    Now, I'm running a veyr good rig and I still had to turn my graphhics down to even hope to participate. Tera's "graphics" (not talking art design) are not as good as skyrim's graphics. Sorry but we are not there yet.

     

    The technology can support it. I dont know if HERO engine can (apparently not).

    But if the landscapes are generic, how the hell are we supposed to enjoy one of the main themes in ES games, exploration? It's one thing running around in the woods and exploring every nook and cranny in the terrain because it's there to explore, and another to be running in above-average-but-still-generic fantasy settings with a bit of foliage here and Speedtree there. It just doesn't cut it.

    And the level of world detail was one of ES series' strongest selling points. Can't have ES Online without that.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by severius

    Originally posted by Sovrath


     

    It's not that they can't put housing in. I repeat: IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T PUT HOUSING IN.

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

    I'm as much dissapointed in the directoin they took this game but it's not that their explanations don't make sense. They do. What they've done is taken the elderscrolls games and converted them to mmo sensibilities. Part of this makes sense because these games cost so much to make they have to make their money back. And part of it is that some things just don't work in an mmo settting.

    But this is not a surprise to me. I've always suspected that any Elderscrolls game turned mmo was going to suffer in the translation.

     

    Star Wars Galaxies, a decade ago, had player housing and cities.  Multiple lay outs, multiple styles.  Houses for rich and for poor.  City building like shuttle ports, banks and guild halls.  All of which could be customized and decorated to your heart's content.  Yeah, too hard.  LOL.

    Did you not read?

    And yes, SWG did. And what happened? Landscapes dotted with empty houses. This is the issue the are addressing. Not that it can't be done but to do it in a way that doesn't create a wasteland that eventually has to be dealth with by the devlopers is too difficult. And difficult was probably not the right word: Problmatic.

    Again "not that it can't be done" And elderscrolls fans want their own plot, they want their own house. At lesat that is how it's done in the elderscrolls games.

    Here, I'll try again:

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

     

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member

    but with that mindset, every player that is not crowned emperor will likewise rage and quit. Can't please all the people in an MMO. And it's the scarcity of some elements that gives value to those elements.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Galadourn

    but with that mindset, every player that is not crowned emperor will likewise rage and quit. Can't please all the people in an MMO. And it's the scarcity of some elements that gives value to those elements.

    Well I say good to that. It's about time these games (in my opinion) stopped making it so that everyone can be their own special queen of the prom.

     

  • KinchyleKinchyle Hugo, ORPosts: 309Member

    Seriously...people...are you really making posts about this now?

    Get over yourselves and see what will come. Stop making post JUST to make posts about thing s YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT!!!

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by severius


    Originally posted by Sovrath


     

    It's not that they can't put housing in. I repeat: IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T PUT HOUSING IN.

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

    I'm as much dissapointed in the directoin they took this game but it's not that their explanations don't make sense. They do. What they've done is taken the elderscrolls games and converted them to mmo sensibilities. Part of this makes sense because these games cost so much to make they have to make their money back. And part of it is that some things just don't work in an mmo settting.

    But this is not a surprise to me. I've always suspected that any Elderscrolls game turned mmo was going to suffer in the translation.

     

    Star Wars Galaxies, a decade ago, had player housing and cities.  Multiple lay outs, multiple styles.  Houses for rich and for poor.  City building like shuttle ports, banks and guild halls.  All of which could be customized and decorated to your heart's content.  Yeah, too hard.  LOL.

    Did you not read?

    And yes, SWG did. And what happened? Landscapes dotted with empty houses. This is the issue the are addressing. Not that it can't be done but to do it in a way that doesn't create a wasteland that eventually has to be dealth with by the devlopers is too difficult. And difficult was probably not the right word: Problmatic.

    Again "not that it can't be done" And elderscrolls fans want their own plot, they want their own house. At lesat that is how it's done in the elderscrolls games.

    Here, I'll try again:

    It's that in order to put housing into the game in a way that elders scrolls players have have been used to; i.e. having their own house, is just too difficult to manage in a game where thousands of players are going to want their own plots. And of course that leaves the thousands of players who have their own plots and then intermittently leave the game thus leaving huge empty graveyards of houses.

    Of course they could have adopted the EQ2 or LOTRO mode of doing it but that would have resulted in an equal number of screams.

     

    That was because they turned off decay/maintenence. It wasnt the actual implementation of housing itself, but SOEs method for dealing with cancelled accounts

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • IndolIndol O''Fallon, MOPosts: 189Member

    Originally posted by Kinchyle

    Seriously...people...are you really making posts about this now?

    Get over yourselves and see what will come. Stop making post JUST to make posts about thing s YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT!!!

    Apparently the article doesn't exist guys, it's all good.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,453Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by PyrateLV

     

    That was because they turned off decay/maintenence. It wasnt the actual implementation of housing itself, but SOEs method for dealing with cancelled accounts

    in which case that is what any open world housing solutioin should have. decay maitenance.

    But i suspect tht our friends at Zenimax find it too labor intensive to create plots upon plots for mmo housing.

     

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