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Bright Wizard Class

HauvarnHauvarn Walker, LAPosts: 220Member

Well I'm sitting here bored, didn't get to play the BWE, so instead of researching about it I'm just gonna ask the good ole mmorpg community.  

Do you think they're going to have a class that was as rediculous as the bright wizard was in warhammer?

The reason I ask this is because as much as I loved warhammer rvr, the fact that the bright wizard could stack rain of fire and decimate wrabands really ruined the game for me (and the guild ruin but thats another story) and even after this was addressed they just added the kotbs with his unbreakable aoe snare and the bright wizards scorched earth ability.  It always seemed like they would take a step back then a sprint forward.

I know arena net is better with their balancing but from what I heard this is a much more ambitious project in the mmo-world than Gw1 and that comes with more problems. Now since I didn't get to play in the BWE I'd like one of you that did to answer this for me.  

on a side note, by bright wizard class I do not mean flavor of the month (Because we all know every game has these) but more flavor of the game (Incredibly overpowered through-out the life of the game.) 

P.S.  Can't wait for release, gonna be a great game.

Edit: if I don't reply immediately there is a reason, I'll be back, you supply me with answers (please be hoesnt though, I've already formed my opinion so don't try to get me to hate or love the game)

Yes I played SWTOR.

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Comments

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Well all aoe is capped to 5 people so I doubt you'll see something as outrageous as Bright Wizards. And since each profession can have multiple syles of play (ranged and melee) it will lessen that kind of impact as well.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon

    I thought <TAB> DoTing was the prolem?

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Well, it really depends on how they do with class balance in future updates.  I'm a little worried about the fact they are looking over melee and possibly buffing it as melee was absolutely overpowered already in Conquest especially on certain professions.  Right now a lot of balancing needs to be done.  If you like I can comment further on why this is, but right now I felt the professions were tiered as followed in their current known top specs:

    Balantly Overpowered:  Necromancer (Staff), Ranger (Warhorn + Anything and Greatsword)

    Somewhat Overpowered, but Managable:  Warrior (Axe + Shield and Greatsword), Guardian (Sword/Shield and Mace/Focus)

    Balanced:  Thief (Anything really), Elementalist (Anything really), Engineer (Pistol + Shield)

    Underpowered:  Mesmer (Staff and Dual Swords)

    Nearly every profession had "balanced" specs and weapon sets (for example bow Rangers are effectively balanced in my opinion), just certain weapon sets and utility skills need to obviously be brought down a notch.  Mesmer was the only profession I felt could use an all around buff.  If you want explanations to why I felt this way I could provide it.

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  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member

    If we are going to have an overpowered class in World Wars (WvW) then elementalist is a good guess.

    Just look here how they can be played

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbRYEE1k-xk&feature=plcp

    But with that said the group Mostly harmless must be one of the best GW1 guilds. So most of what you see is properly also related to the huge difference in player skill level. But it is significant that they actual chosse to play elementalists. (On the other hand i hear them swearing at a Guardian a couple of times, propperly just because he is so hard to kill.)

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Well, it really depends on how they do with class balance in future updates.  I'm a little worried about the fact they are looking over melee and possibly buffing it as melee was absolutely overpowered already in Conquest especially on certain professions.  Right now a lot of balancing needs to be done.  If you like I can comment further on why this is, but right now I felt the professions were tiered as followed in their current known top specs:
    Balantly Overpowered:  Necromancer (Staff), Ranger (Warhorn + Anything and Greatsword)
    Somewhat Overpowered, but Managable:  Warrior (Axe + Shield and Greatsword), Guardian (Sword/Shield and Mace/Focus)
    Balanced:  Thief (Anything really), Elementalist (Anything really), Engineer (Pistol + Shield)
    Underpowered:  Mesmer (Staff and Dual Swords)
    Nearly every profession had "balanced" specs and weapon sets (for example bow Rangers are effectively balanced in my opinion), just certain weapon sets and utility skills need to obviously be brought down a notch.  Mesmer was the only profession I felt could use an all around buff.  If you want explanations to why I felt this way I could provide it.

     

    How can anyone make these conclusions based on a single weekend surrounded with people that have no clue how to play their class best?

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Well, it really depends on how they do with class balance in future updates.  I'm a little worried about the fact they are looking over melee and possibly buffing it as melee was absolutely overpowered already in Conquest especially on certain professions.  Right now a lot of balancing needs to be done.  If you like I can comment further on why this is, but right now I felt the professions were tiered as followed in their current known top specs:

    Balantly Overpowered:  Necromancer (Staff), Ranger (Warhorn + Anything and Greatsword)

    Somewhat Overpowered, but Managable:  Warrior (Axe + Shield and Greatsword), Guardian (Sword/Shield and Mace/Focus)

    Balanced:  Thief (Anything really), Elementalist (Anything really), Engineer (Pistol + Shield)

    Underpowered:  Mesmer (Staff and Dual Swords)

    Nearly every profession had "balanced" specs and weapon sets (for example bow Rangers are effectively balanced in my opinion), just certain weapon sets and utility skills need to obviously be brought down a notch.  Mesmer was the only profession I felt could use an all around buff.  If you want explanations to why I felt this way I could provide it.

     

    How can anyone make these conclusions based on a single weekend surrounded with people that have no clue how to play their class best?

    Or the fact no one made it to lvl 80 outside of Structured PvP and boosting. There was no class actually OP in BWE some people may think so but this is what killed WAR, DAoC and many other games. There is no balance in large scale tactical PvP.

  • Games888Games888 Chicago, ILPosts: 243Member

    some good for 1v1 some good for pvp some good for WvW.

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Well, it really depends on how they do with class balance in future updates.  I'm a little worried about the fact they are looking over melee and possibly buffing it as melee was absolutely overpowered already in Conquest especially on certain professions.  Right now a lot of balancing needs to be done.  If you like I can comment further on why this is, but right now I felt the professions were tiered as followed in their current known top specs:

    Balantly Overpowered:  Necromancer (Staff), Ranger (Warhorn + Anything and Greatsword)

    Somewhat Overpowered, but Managable:  Warrior (Axe + Shield and Greatsword), Guardian (Sword/Shield and Mace/Focus)

    Balanced:  Thief (Anything really), Elementalist (Anything really), Engineer (Pistol + Shield)

    Underpowered:  Mesmer (Staff and Dual Swords)

    Nearly every profession had "balanced" specs and weapon sets (for example bow Rangers are effectively balanced in my opinion), just certain weapon sets and utility skills need to obviously be brought down a notch.  Mesmer was the only profession I felt could use an all around buff.  If you want explanations to why I felt this way I could provide it.

     

    How can anyone make these conclusions based on a single weekend surrounded with people that have no clue how to play their class best?

    Because we had all abilities, traits, and such available for testing and the numbers associated with them.  There are abilities right now that are flat out imbalanced when compared to other abilities.  Again if you want me to state how I came to these conclusions that's fine.  Abilities like Quickening_Zephyr absolutely need a nerf.  Let's take the Ranger for example:



    • Possibly doing the highest 4 second burst in the game with Rampage As One (or alternatively Warhorn Buff) and Greatsword + Quickening Zephyr, criting for as much as 4k in about 10 different attacks all in a matter of seconds.


    • Can almost permenantly keep up Swiftness.  Has extra movement speed buffs on top of that AND a gap closer.


    • Can keep up Stability for a long period of time (20 seconds).


    • Can remove conditions well on top of that.


    • Has a pet that also shares their buffs, as well as hits consistently for over 1k damage and moves at 63% + base movement speed.


    • Has 6 seconds of invulnerability and extra toughness when the signet is ready but not activated.


    • 22K base HP, with a high (~70%) critical rate, solid toughness, 50% faster endurance recharge.


    Almost no build can counter this.  Even if you were to remove the boons the Ranger has, the Ranger still has solid ways to stick to you especially since they are nearly impossible to CC with soft CCs due to their solid condition removal.  Even if you were to counter the Ranger you still have a pet who is hitting for consistent damage moving at the speed of light to deal with.  It's safe to come to the conclusion that a few of the Ranger's abilities are on the overpowered side with some mathematics and logic.


     


    It's called thereocrafting, you don't need extensive play experience to understand why something might be a little over the top since all games pretty much function on mathematics and logic.

    image

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  • Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Well, it really depends on how they do with class balance in future updates.  I'm a little worried about the fact they are looking over melee and possibly buffing it as melee was absolutely overpowered already in Conquest especially on certain professions.  Right now a lot of balancing needs to be done.  If you like I can comment further on why this is, but right now I felt the professions were tiered as followed in their current known top specs:

    Balantly Overpowered:  Necromancer (Staff), Ranger (Warhorn + Anything and Greatsword)

    Somewhat Overpowered, but Managable:  Warrior (Axe + Shield and Greatsword), Guardian (Sword/Shield and Mace/Focus)

    Balanced:  Thief (Anything really), Elementalist (Anything really), Engineer (Pistol + Shield)

    Underpowered:  Mesmer (Staff and Dual Swords)

    Nearly every profession had "balanced" specs and weapon sets (for example bow Rangers are effectively balanced in my opinion), just certain weapon sets and utility skills need to obviously be brought down a notch.  Mesmer was the only profession I felt could use an all around buff.  If you want explanations to why I felt this way I could provide it.

     

    How can anyone make these conclusions based on a single weekend surrounded with people that have no clue how to play their class best?

    My conclusion from Beta was that I was scared they would nerf Mesmer.

  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member

    Things still need adjusting while i am not gonna write things in stone after this weekend some vets are correct to point out some of the classes need adjusting....

     

     

     

     

     

    ^ this is the video many pointed to show some of the issues with ranger W/ broadsword it got quite a lot of play on the offical forums

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member

    What OP is asking is if we get a proffesion as overpowered as the Bright wisard in WAR.

    Now the Brightwizard was overpowered in RvR lakes. In GW2 that would be a question about what  proffision is overpowered in RvR. So far it is an open question if battles away from keeps  in form of skirmishes is actual going to be a big enough factor to influence that .

    But if we talk keeps and Zerg battles , it really looks like its AoE that is going to be the most important factor.

    And even if its kapped at hitting 5 targets max, that doesn't prevent the damage that stacked AoEs can do to be insane.

    So far it could look like the elemetalist is insanely strong there 

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • HauvarnHauvarn Walker, LAPosts: 220Member

    Originally posted by jondifool

    What OP is asking is if we get a proffesion as overpowered as the Bright wisard in WAR.

    Now the Brightwizard was overpowered in RvR lakes. In GW2 that would be a question about what  proffision is overpowered in RvR. So far it is an open question if battles away from keeps  in form of skirmishes is actual going to be a big enough factor to influence that .

    But if we talk keeps and Zerg battles , it really looks like its AoE that is going to be the most important factor.

    And even if its kapped at hitting 5 targets max, that doesn't prevent the damage that stacked AoEs can do to be insane.

    So far it could look like the elemetalist is insanely strong there 

    Yes for 1v1's or even 1v2 I can get over a class being overpowered.

    The problem comes when a class is just rolling over groups of people.  

    I'm more than positive though that Gw2 wouldn't have such problems, but you never know, and it couldn't hurt anyone to ask.

    Yes I played SWTOR.

  • MMOSavantMMOSavant NuneatonPosts: 170Member

    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Well, it really depends on how they do with class balance in future updates.  I'm a little worried about the fact they are looking over melee and possibly buffing it as melee was absolutely overpowered already in Conquest especially on certain professions.  Right now a lot of balancing needs to be done.  If you like I can comment further on why this is, but right now I felt the professions were tiered as followed in their current known top specs:

    Balantly Overpowered:  Necromancer (Staff), Ranger (Warhorn + Anything and Greatsword)

    Somewhat Overpowered, but Managable:  Warrior (Axe + Shield and Greatsword), Guardian (Sword/Shield and Mace/Focus)

    Balanced:  Thief (Anything really), Elementalist (Anything really), Engineer (Pistol + Shield)

    Underpowered:  Mesmer (Staff and Dual Swords)

    Nearly every profession had "balanced" specs and weapon sets (for example bow Rangers are effectively balanced in my opinion), just certain weapon sets and utility skills need to obviously be brought down a notch.  Mesmer was the only profession I felt could use an all around buff.  If you want explanations to why I felt this way I could provide it.

     

    At last a game with a decent Ranger class.

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk BFE, KSPosts: 894Member

    Bright Wizards won't be a problem in GW2 but the arrow carts will mow you down if you don't move. image

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    I think ANet should take a page out of their GW1 book and make PvP versions of certain abilities. For example, the warrior's Hundred Blades greatsword skill. Properly spec'ed warrior with Bullstrike + Hundred Blades is absolutely deadly, especially when you follow up with an Eviscerate from 1H axe.

    It'll be imposible to achieve decent balance with 8 different classes and multiple weapons for each class for both PvE and PvP. This is why they need different versions of certain skills for PvE and PvP.

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  • OldManFunkOldManFunk BFE, KSPosts: 894Member

    Originally posted by heartless

    I think ANet should take a page out of their GW1 book and make PvP versions of certain abilities. For example, the warrior's Hundred Blades greatsword skill. Properly spec'ed warrior with Bullstrike + Hundred Blades is absolutely deadly, especially when you follow up with an Eviscerate from 1H axe.

    It'll be imposible to achieve decent balance with 8 different classes and multiple weapons for each class for both PvE and PvP. This is why they need different versions of certain skills for PvE and PvP.

    Maybe, but every class can dodge, and a well timed dodge will turn that burst damage into a whiff.

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    In WvW anyway, the biggest threat was seige weapons rather than class AEs, for whatever that's worth :) 

    So far all the classes I tried felt fairly balanced, and there was no class that stood out as any more of a threat than others like BWs did in WAR.

    One big difference I found compared to DAoC and WAR, was the fact that if you were, for example, defending a gate, going down into the thick of it to chase after a target near death or just for the fun of it, was *not* an instant death sentance.

    Numerous times I was able to chase someone into the crowd (or just dive off the wall into the enemy army) if they were fairly wounded, finish them off, and still manage to escape (usually). And I initially started doing that on my ranger (just to experiment), who was somewhat squishy.

    Usually in those scenerios melee sit around twiddeling their thumbs if they dont have a seige weapon to use, so it was nice to see I wasn't as hindered as a melee. They did a really good job on TTK and damage ratios in my opinion.

    This may not seem related to BWs power in WAR, but it's just to illustrate that we're not really dealing with the same rules regarding range either.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by OldManFunk

    Originally posted by heartless

    I think ANet should take a page out of their GW1 book and make PvP versions of certain abilities. For example, the warrior's Hundred Blades greatsword skill. Properly spec'ed warrior with Bullstrike + Hundred Blades is absolutely deadly, especially when you follow up with an Eviscerate from 1H axe.

    It'll be imposible to achieve decent balance with 8 different classes and multiple weapons for each class for both PvE and PvP. This is why they need different versions of certain skills for PvE and PvP.

    Maybe, but every class can dodge, and a well timed dodge will turn that burst damage into a whiff.

    That's true but Bull's Charge (not Bullstrike, don't know why I said that) is a 2 second knowdown which is why those 2 skills go so well together. Especially if you catch your oponent unaware.

    I guess that really only makes a huge difference in structured PvP or 1v1 but still.

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  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    I used to love Bright Wizards.  My Zealot's healing numbers went through the roof whenever they were around -- which was almost always.  Really made playing a healer a fun challenge.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by heartless

    I think ANet should take a page out of their GW1 book and make PvP versions of certain abilities. For example, the warrior's Hundred Blades greatsword skill. Properly spec'ed warrior with Bullstrike + Hundred Blades is absolutely deadly, especially when you follow up with an Eviscerate from 1H axe.

    It'll be imposible to achieve decent balance with 8 different classes and multiple weapons for each class for both PvE and PvP. This is why they need different versions of certain skills for PvE and PvP.

    I hope they never do this.  It's one of the major things that has kept me out of PvP in other games, including GW1.  I don't mind having to learn PvP tactics in addition to PvE tactics, but I won't make the effort to try and master a new skill system.  When I learn my skills, I want them to stay learned.

  • heartlessheartless Brooklyn, NYPosts: 4,993Member

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by heartless

    I think ANet should take a page out of their GW1 book and make PvP versions of certain abilities. For example, the warrior's Hundred Blades greatsword skill. Properly spec'ed warrior with Bullstrike + Hundred Blades is absolutely deadly, especially when you follow up with an Eviscerate from 1H axe.

    It'll be imposible to achieve decent balance with 8 different classes and multiple weapons for each class for both PvE and PvP. This is why they need different versions of certain skills for PvE and PvP.

    I hope they never do this.  It's one of the major things that has kept me out of PvP in other games, including GW1.  I don't mind having to learn PvP tactics in addition to PvE tactics, but I won't make the effort to try and master a new skill system.  When I learn my skills, I want them to stay learned.

    Most abilities weren't really different. They just weren't as powerful in PvP as they were in PvE. There were a few that did work differently.

    I see your point, though. I'm just not sure how well they can really balance one without affecting the other.

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  • URMAKERURMAKER slidell, LAPosts: 632Member Uncommon

    ugh bright wizards were a pain in the ass for my witch elf. i played for nearly a year and quit mainly because they absolutely could not balance that class.

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  • HauvarnHauvarn Walker, LAPosts: 220Member

    Originally posted by URMAKER

    ugh bright wizards were a pain in the ass for my witch elf. i played for nearly a year and quit mainly because they absolutely could not balance that class.

    It's the reason I quit too, it wasn't bad when it was just rain of fire but when the kotbs would root you in place(where the root break wouldn't even remove it) with 2-3 bw's coming right behind to spam scorched earth and devastate anyone around them.

    That and how horrible land of the dead ended up being.

    Yes I played SWTOR.

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 879Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Hauvarn

    Well I'm sitting here bored, didn't get to play the BWE, so instead of researching about it I'm just gonna ask the good ole mmorpg community.  

    Do you think they're going to have a class that was as rediculous as the bright wizard was in warhammer?

    The reason I ask this is because as much as I loved warhammer rvr, the fact that the bright wizard could stack rain of fire and decimate wrabands really ruined the game for me (and the guild ruin but thats another story) and even after this was addressed they just added the kotbs with his unbreakable aoe snare and the bright wizards scorched earth ability.  It always seemed like they would take a step back then a sprint forward.

    I know arena net is better with their balancing but from what I heard this is a much more ambitious project in the mmo-world than Gw1 and that comes with more problems. Now since I didn't get to play in the BWE I'd like one of you that did to answer this for me.  

    on a side note, by bright wizard class I do not mean flavor of the month (Because we all know every game has these) but more flavor of the game (Incredibly overpowered through-out the life of the game.) 

    P.S.  Can't wait for release, gonna be a great game.

    Edit: if I don't reply immediately there is a reason, I'll be back, you supply me with answers (please be hoesnt though, I've already formed my opinion so don't try to get me to hate or love the game)

     

     

    The problem with what you're talking about is that you're just refering to an AOE class that can destroy an army.    It's possible in Guild Wars 2 dending on a couple of things.

     

     

    1) Everyone has heals.

    What this means is that everyone can monitor their HP while in the front lines by the gates of hell while buring trying to knock them down.   So, even with healers like a water-attuned Elementalist, you still should have an army that tends to their own mending.

    2) Shield barriers.

    There are a few shield barriers and protective things that can prevent AOE projectiles and protect allies.  These aren't pathetic miniscule ones either, they're huge and buffy.   This is a group tactic to have shield barrers up front protecting the Rams and door patrol.

    3) More than one AOE class.

    We have the Ranger, Elementalist, Mezmer, Necromancer.  Besides those, certain weapons have really cool sets of AOE abilities themselves that other classes can use; one such example is the summoned Frozen Longbow, which has a barrage attack.

    4) Siege weapons.

    This is a HUGE difference in WAR's vs. GW2's tactical world fights.   Siege weapons in GW2 can be placed anywhere.....ANYWHERE (that there's room for deploying) that they player pleases.  WAR's were restricted to specific pads and platforms that were static and gave an exact range.   Because of GW2's unrestrictive nature of it's siege weapons ,they can be used for a great offense or defense.  These can be used to tear down walls, rain on enemies, gate destruction, and so on.

    5) Evasive combat.

    He's AOE'ing, ROLL out of the way.  Tada, you just EVADEd your way out of getting slaughtered.  Now, attack.  Great thing about AOE is it's area specific.  Best thing about GW2's combat is that it's ever moving and not just standing in one place waiting for a skill bar to hit...it can move while you're moving, thus the ebb and flow of combat.

     

     

    This is why the combat for GW2 is so addictive that it can be played for 9hrs straight without realizing that it's been 9hrs ....damn.


  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    If you are worried about WvWvW Elementalist may seem powerful there, but keep in mind that nearly every class can AoE just as well as they can through a specific weapon set.  Some may not have quite the range they have though, so it's notable they have an advantage there (though it only applies to a few professions here).  Elementalist might just seem overpowered because their particle effects are a bit over the top right now, heh.

    The siege weapons are a lot more deadly.  As mentioned arrow carts are absolutely devestating to anyone within ranged of them and getting 2-3 of them can instantly wipe out an entire WvWvW force if they are clustered, with no solid counter when placed in certain positions that basically grant them immunity till you break into the keep.

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