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**An Open Letter to the TESO Developers**

FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

First, I'd like to present to you your own words towards the product you're currently working on:

"The entire team is committed to creating the best MMO ever made – and one that is worthy of The Elder Scrolls franchise."

Second, I'd like to say that NOTHING in this open letter to you, the developers of TESO, is based on any recent information that may or may not be true about your product as products like yours will shift & change over time through its development. However, this letter is more of a broad "this is what you NEED to know" about the product you're making, and more importantly whom your product is meant for.



With these words as the proverbial centerpiece to this letter let me lay out the success for your product in no uncertain terms from the perspective of the fans to the Elder Scrolls franchise.

 

The Elder Scrolls Franchise has been, at its core, concentrated on providing the highest of quality Sandbox singleplayer "Role Playing Games" ever since 1996 with Daggerfall. Since Daggerfall we've seen MANY variations of the Elder Scrolls series that has absolutely decimated any other RPG on the market in its time to at the very least an enjoyable adventure singled around one particular group, The Fans!

 

Who are "The Fans" of the Elder Scrolls series you might ask? Well, it's actually quite clear once you realize what they're not. "The Fans" are not interested in easy linear quest based mouse mazes that hold your hand from place to place. "The Fans" are not interested in "Gear Score", "Dungeon Raid Weekends", or "PvP Arenas". To put it bluntly, we are NOT interested in another SWTOR. If you think going the easy route that, quite frankly, decimated the StarWars IP for the next 10yrs you've got another thing coming to you.

 

We want an immersive recreation of, at the very least, a product on par with the Morrowind release of The Elder Scrolls in an MMO form. That means NO instances, NO Battlegrounds, No hand-held linear questing, and NO GEAR SCORE with a giant pulsating "DPS =" indicator on our character sheet. 

 

You must understand, you're making a product centered around a VERY specific mindset, and changing that product to fit ANOTHER mindset that had no inclination toward your product to begin with is quite simply a failure in the making. So, if all you're going to hand to the fans is something similar to the current iteration of MMOs that have come out in the past 10years as the "End all Be All" MMO aimed at "Taking a chunk out of WoW's subscriber count" you can go ahead and cancel your product right now. 

 

"The Fans" won't buy it, and something tells me the "other" audience isn't too interested in an Elder Scrolls based on something they KNOW is more fleshed, and quite frankly if they wanted a copy of something they'll play the original.

 

 

Thank you for reading, and if this letter has come off as hostile I deeply apologize. Fans have a tendency to be passionate with their favorite franchises, and more so against them being tarnished :)

 

Sincerely,

-A TES Fan

 

 

 

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

«13

Comments

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,205Member Uncommon

    Dear Bethesda/Zenimax,

    I agree with the above and would like to point out why I don't/can't trust you to develop an MMO properly:

    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Glitches

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Bugs_(Oblivion)

    http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_bugs

    http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_bugs

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Bugs_(Skyrim)

    Shall we discuss the horrible QA process you have going on?  Or is it enough to say that the PS3 version of Skyrim was broken for GREATER than 5 months after launch on the console?

    We hold this game up and champion it because of the leeway given to modders.  Would we still be playing Morrowwind in HD if you guys didn't allow modders to come in and FIX YOUR GAME?

    I will wait, but I will not be optimistic, enthusiastic or anything remotely positive about your game until you PROVE to me that you've moved beyond the mistakes of the last.... 5-6 games...  gamebreaking bugs in an MMO are simply unacceptable.

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  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member

    Agreed. If TESO does not satisfy you when released, see Darkfall 2.0.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by wrekognize

    Agreed. If TESO does not satisfy you when released, see Darkfall 2.0.

    I don't like Darkfall mainly due to the community, and I don't trust the company that runs Darkfall to make 2.0 any better sadly enough. I've seen enough of their shenanigans recently, and in the past, to know better :(.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by wrekognize

    Agreed. If TESO does not satisfy you when released, see Darkfall 2.0.

    I don't like Darkfall mainly due to the community, and I don't trust the company that runs Darkfall to make 2.0 any better sadly enough. I've seen enough of their shenanigans recently, and in the past, to know better :(.

     

    hmm the community you experienced must be different than the community I have experienced. I just started playing a month ago and everyone's been great. As for the company, I have respect for anyone willing to make the type of game they created with darkfall 1.0.

  • ThourneThourne Lake Station, INPosts: 119Member Uncommon

    The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the 1st game and it came out in 1994 (I still have my 13 floppies and the original box )

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by Thourne

    The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the 1st game and it came out in 1994 (I still have my 13 floppies and the original box )

    Indeed, but it wasn't a very high quality game. I still enjoyed it, but Daggerfall is considered the best of the series (odd that, huh?) next to Morrowind, however most will say they're either both on-par with each other or Morrowind is better. However, I sincerely believe Morrowind just had more people who played it due to it's younger age :)!

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • ThourneThourne Lake Station, INPosts: 119Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Thourne

    The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the 1st game and it came out in 1994 (I still have my 13 floppies and the original box )

    Indeed, but it wasn't a very high quality game. I still enjoyed it, but Daggerfall is considered the best of the series (odd that, huh?) next to Morrowind, however most will say they're either both on-par with each other or Morrowind is better. However, I sincerely believe Morrowind just had more people who played it due to it's younger age :)!

    I don't disagree with you that all the games are good :)

    I would add that compared to the products published near Arena  that it was far and away better than the rest.

    It was the 1st game I can recall that If I did not use fast travel and left a city I could spend literal hours traveling around the countryside and having all sorts of encounters. It made it feel so much more alive than anything else I had played at the time...god I'm getting old.

    Anyway this is about the MMO and I've sidetracked the main topic.

    My apologies.

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,205Member Uncommon

    Nah, Daggerfall IMO was more of a classic than Morrowwind.  Morrowwind was good as well but if I had to rank PERSONALLY it'd be.

    Daggerfall

    Skyrim

    Morrowind

    Oblivion

    Arena

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  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member

    I'm looking forward to seeing what features this game has, the 3 faction pvp has caught my eye. People will be negative regardless of what kind of mmo elder scrolls is, so i'll just ignore all your nonsense and wait and see for myself.

  • OldsaltOldsalt Monett, MOPosts: 41Member

    Originally posted by Thourne

    The Elder Scrolls: Arena was the 1st game and it came out in 1994 (I still have my 13 floppies and the original box )

    That probably makes two of us . Maybe we should go on "The Antiques Roadshow". We might be wealthy and not know it.

    The sooner you fall behind the more time you have to catch up.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    totally agree with the OP..

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by Istavaan

    I'm looking forward to seeing what features this game has, the 3 faction pvp has caught my eye. People will be negative regardless of what kind of mmo elder scrolls is, so i'll just ignore all your nonsense and wait and see for myself.

    Yea, the 3 factions caught my eye as the ONE proper aspect of the game. However, if it turns out massively instanced, with instanced dungeon runs, instanced raids, and a gear system based on progression through linear content it won't bode well for them at ALL.

     

    Also, let's hope the graphics aren't childish like SWTOR's. 

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member

    I just want first-person sandbox gameplay. I was devastated this morning to hear that it will be the exact opposite. I can't imagine why anyone who wants to bring the elder scrolls experience would think of putting a hotbar combat system into the game. = I understand that publishers and developers believe sandboxes can't bring in a large, money-swimming playerbase. Instead they would have a loyal niche of gamers that sandboxes are connected too. Sure linear gameplay is hard to do in a sandbox; but what's wrong with creating our own story? Why do we have to be told one? 

    Honestly, I don't look at ESO as being an elder scrolls title. In fact I don't even think it deserves the name. What I really wanted was a polished Mortal Online + Darkfall, one with a AAA budget. I did not, and still can't accept the fact that it's anything less. 

    I will honestly quit if I hear that it's instanced gameplay like GW1 was. 

    I know we can't change how the game is right now. That it's been years in development and it'd be wasteful and smart (cough) to go back on all those years spent.

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • bishboshbishbosh SydneyPosts: 388Member

    agree with OP

  • BoreilBoreil Dallas, TXPosts: 448Member Uncommon

    TES has been a Single player game set in an MMORPG world since it was created, its only right to make it a true mmorpg finally.

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    Dear Zenimax Online

    please continue what you are doing sounds great so far.

    although as a suggestion, please consider getting rid of classes and having a "class" system similar to EVE or TSW

    even if it has classes, I will probably play it though

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    Agree with the OP as well.

    Also the guy that said a polished Mortal online + Darkfall, only remove the darkfall.

    If the leak isn't a joke, then maybe one day Starvault will get MO to the point that it's worth the sub to play, as it's design vision is actually very much ES meets MMO, only they like to talk about UO more.

     

    Would be very contradictory to make an ES MMO for the fans, but completely change the design principles you've established for the series over the last 15+ years.  ES fans didn't play the games for the name, we played them for the gameplay, period.

     

    I won't buy another ID game after playing rage, and I don't blame bethesda, but if they release an ES MMO and it's only ES in name only, I won't buy anything Bethesda publishes again. 

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    This was the best and probably only chance for a AAA sandbox mmo in the west, as it could have been argued that a themepark would alienate the core fan-base more than a usually riskier sandbox.


     


    Pity.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Agree with the OP as well.

    Also the guy that said a polished Mortal online + Darkfall, only remove the darkfall.

    If the leak isn't a joke, then maybe one day Starvault will get MO to the point that it's worth the sub to play, as it's design vision is actually very much ES meets MMO, only they like to talk about UO more.

     

    Would be very contradictory to make an ES MMO for the fans, but completely change the design principles you've established for the series over the last 15+ years.  ES fans didn't play the games for the name, we played them for the gameplay, period.

     

    I won't buy another ID game after playing rage, and I don't blame bethesda, but if they release an ES MMO and it's only ES in name only, I won't buy anything Bethesda publishes again. 

    I agree with you that MO feels more like an MMO version of the Elder Scrolls series than what the leaks will have you believe.

     

    However, I'd also like to point out that without a different "vision" & leadership behind StarVault they won't get anywhere with MO. The quality they accept is FAR below what it should be. Additionally, I'm not a fan of FORCED first person because, believe it or not, not everyone is a 1st person immersion player. A LOT of people grew up with Everquest, Diablo, and UO's 3rd person playstyle. 

    Granted, SOME games would do amazing with 1st person dungeon crawling, but MO just isn't one of them. The perspective given in 1st person is just TOO constrictive. 

    I won't even mention how bad their content patches are, number of bugs, or the low amount of work they throw into MO. I believe if it were bought by a AAA publisher that REFUSED to change the overall ruleset of MO (ie: let it continue to be a pure full-force sandbox) that it'd dominate the market.

     

    However, it seems almost every MMO that has been in development since 2005 will be a WoW-clone, or damn near it. That's at least the general guestimation given by quite a few market advisors, and I'm not happy with it :(.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

    Originally posted by zevni78


    This was the best and probably only chance for a AAA sandbox mmo in the west, as it could have been argued that a themepark would alienate the core fan-base more than a usually riskier sandbox.


     


    Pity.

    Let me ask you a question.

     

    Do you believe that it is RISKIER to bet on a well fleshed out "sandbox" MMO, or to alienate your subscriber base by copying something that has no "moveable" consumer base? 

     

    In other words, is it Riskier to copy WoW than it is to innovate now? For me, I believe that it is. Risky, doesn't mean what investors and publishers seem to think. Copying WoW post RIFT or SWTOR is pretty much a gauranteed failure. EA-Bioware are doing almost anything they can to keep subscribers even if it means outright lieing about their subscription numbers.

     

    Also, I'd like to take this moment to say I'm not the only one hoping that the "leaked" game informer is a joke, or a REALLY bad attempt at sarcasm. If everything in that Game Informer leak, shy of 3 faction system, is true then shame on Zenimax. What was outlined in that "Leak" is NOT an Elder Scrolls title. 

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Boreil

    TES has been a Single player game set in an MMORPG world since it was created, its only right to make it a true mmorpg finally.


     


    It's not right to do it like this though, can anyone who defends this project honestly say they didn’t expect something very different from this?

  • RyukanRyukan Mason, MIPosts: 706Member Uncommon

    I had no delusions about what kind of MMORPG game they were going to make based on the ES series...and it's not the kind of game I would be interested in playing.

    They should change the name so it doesn't have Elder Scrolls in it and then in the opening credits it can say "based upon the Elder Scrolls series" because that is abouty as close as it will come to the gameplay of the Elder Scrolls series.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Agree with the OP as well.

    Also the guy that said a polished Mortal online + Darkfall, only remove the darkfall.

    If the leak isn't a joke, then maybe one day Starvault will get MO to the point that it's worth the sub to play, as it's design vision is actually very much ES meets MMO, only they like to talk about UO more.

     

    Would be very contradictory to make an ES MMO for the fans, but completely change the design principles you've established for the series over the last 15+ years.  ES fans didn't play the games for the name, we played them for the gameplay, period.

     

    I won't buy another ID game after playing rage, and I don't blame bethesda, but if they release an ES MMO and it's only ES in name only, I won't buy anything Bethesda publishes again. 

    I agree with you that MO feels more like an MMO version of the Elder Scrolls series than what the leaks will have you believe.

     

    However, I'd also like to point out that without a different "vision" & leadership behind StarVault they won't get anywhere with MO. The quality they accept is FAR below what it should be. Additionally, I'm not a fan of FORCED first person because, believe it or not, not everyone is a 1st person immersion player. A LOT of people grew up with Everquest, Diablo, and UO's 3rd person playstyle. 

    Granted, SOME games would do amazing with 1st person dungeon crawling, but MO just isn't one of them. The perspective given in 1st person is just TOO constrictive. 

    I won't even mention how bad their content patches are, number of bugs, or the low amount of work they throw into MO. I believe if it were bought by a AAA publisher that REFUSED to change the overall ruleset of MO (ie: let it continue to be a pure full-force sandbox) that it'd dominate the market.

     

    However, it seems almost every MMO that has been in development since 2005 will be a WoW-clone, or damn near it. That's at least the general guestimation given by quite a few market advisors, and I'm not happy with it :(.

     

    As I said in another post, despite its flaws, Mortal Online is probably the closest thing to an Elder Scrolls MMO right now.

    From the info in the leak, the moment The Elder Scrolls Online launches, Mortal Online will still be the closest thing to an Elder Scrolls MMO.

    ZeniMax obviously does not understand why people wanted a TES MMO in the first place.

    Unless something changes with the plans for TESO, I'll be sticking with MO or something like it.  That's the kind of game I enjoy - I'd rather play an immersive but flawed sandbox of this type, than the most polished WoW-clone in the world.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    I dont know any TES game that is a sandbox. You cant physically manipulate anything in these games other than killing "mobs" and gather materials which didnt qualify a game as a sandbox game the last I checked. If I could chop down trees and plant new ones on the place of those, if I could bring down the wall of a castle, if I could build a boat and set sail with it, if I could push that rock off a cliff which would roll down the hill smashing some deers on the way... And so forth. That's a sandbox game.

     

    Just having the freedom to move around as you please with no gated content around, while having access to all skills and abilities in a game does not make it a sandbox game when there's absolutely nothing you can manipulate physically in the world.

     

    Anyway, I agree with the part "do not make a WoW clone please" - even if a game is a themepark it does not have to share all the game mechanics, if any, with some/any other game. Would be nice to see some original or just different design choises compared to the mainstream mmorpg pool. And sandbox elements in the game.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Originally posted by Kuinn

    I dont know any TES game that is a sandbox. You cant physically manipulate anything in these games other than killing "mobs" and gather materials which didnt qualify a game as a sandbox game the last I checked. If I could chop down trees and plant new ones on the place of those, if I could bring down the wall of a castle, if I could build a boat and set sail with it, if I could push that rock off a cliff which would roll down the hill smashing some deers on the way... And so forth. That's a sandbox game.

     

    Just having the freedom to move around as you please with no gated content around, while having access to all skills and abilities in a game does not make it a sandbox game when there's absolutely nothing you can manipulate physically in the world.

     

    Anyway, I agree with the part "do not make a WoW clone please" - even if a game is a themepark it does not have to share all the game mechanics, if any, with some/any other game. Would be nice to see some original or just different design choises compared to the mainstream mmorpg pool. And sandbox elements in the game.

    No, thats only a part of what makes a Sandbox game.

    Why is it that now-a-days everyone assumes that for a game to be Sandbox you must manipulate the enviroment somehow?

    Sandbox also mean how you can manipulate and form your character and what they do.

    Sandbox means that you arent stuck as a Mage or Warrior or Rogue or whatever for life.

    You could start the game as a resource gatherer, then become a crafter, then learn to fight with weapons and eventually magic. or however you choose to live.

     

    It really comes down to choice. What direction do you want to go today.

    In a game like SWTOR, my choice pretty much ends once I select my character and class.

    Everything from there on is directed and scripted for me with very little choice left up to me.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

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