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A d3 review by a d2 vet.

13

Comments

  • MikkelBMikkelB SteenwijkPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by Hurvart

    People can like D3 for what it is and still think it feels like a different genre and not a true Diablo sequel. From a ARPG point of view its dumb down and also lacks the sense of darkness, horror and danger that some diablo fans think is essential.

    This I think makes it a better action game. If you just want to kill things and find loot...And if you want a streamlined game without much complexity that the typical action gamer would think was tedious and boring. Its not a bad action game...but not really a sequel.

    And, of course, they had to remove features to get ready for release. Like PvP, rune(item) system and more. They could have delayed it til 2013...But they wanted to release now.

    They streamlined Diablo 3 when compared to Diablo 2. Not "dumbed down". Diablo 2 wasn't complex. Like they tried to explain in the few posts above yours, there were only a few builds that worked in Nightmare and Hell mode of Diablo 2. Ofcourse, you could do pretty much whatever you wanted in the Normal mode, but Normal ended pretty much around level 30-40. If you wanted to succeed in Hell mode, you was pretty much limited to perhaps 3 builds a champion. That's not complex, that's limited. Same goes for the skill points. Yes, you could pretty much put everything in dex and str. Normal mode would be once again be the end of the line for you then.

    Blizzard removed the skill points allocation (well, it happens automatically now) and removed the talent trees. No more putting 20 bloody points in one skill. Just pick the skill you want and use it. If anything, Diablo 3 is more complex then it's predecessors, because most, if not every skill, is viable now. Instead of picking 1 out of 3 builds, you play the game. I really fail to see how that is "dumbed down".

    Blizzard could have done something with talent trees and a respec system. The thing is, if you allow unlimited respecs, you can jsut scrap the whole system, because at that moment, the trees are pretty much obsolete. That's how I see it at least.

    For me, the darkness and horror are still there. Pretty much the same scenery as in the first two games, albeit with more of the scenery visible. The contrast is more present too. Nice, lush areas, filled with undead creatures, mutilated bodies and the horrors of a demonic invasion. The danger was not present in the demo for me, but I'm confident that the difficulty will increase when we get further in the game.

    I wish that people would give some examples of darkness and horror that can be found in Diablo 1 and 2, instead of reusing these hollow arguments.

  • BlackbrrdBlackbrrd KongsbergPosts: 811Member

    Originally posted by Saneless ... The same can be said about starcraft 2, we wanted a SC2 and what we got was starcraft, cartoon graphics, shitty balance issues (the original had them but not nearly as bad as sc2), and a horrible battle.net D.....

    I have been following the GSL since it started and ofcourse there has been balance problems, but there are less and less of them and more meta game shifts than anything else. Maps do also play a big factor. Complaining about SC2 not being "balanced" when it's just 1.5 years old when SC:BW didn't get fixed before the expansion came is just silly.

    There is a good reason there are SC2 tournaments with cash prices of up to 100,000$, the skill level and ceiling are extremely high.

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon

    I won't buy diablo 3 because of how you have no choice on yoru chars advancemenbt of any kind, every skill and rune etc is given to you. No stat or skill builds, half the fun of diablo 2 was making skill builds that were diffrent than the norm. in D3? Nope not allow, blizzard just pigeon holes you down the same path on the same class no matter who is playing that class, Sorry but when a f2p diablo clone can have a proper skill/stat/passive system (Torchlight 2 and Path of exile) Blizzard has no damn excuse for not having it other than plain laziness, especally after how many years has d3 been in dev? 5 years? Its pretty sad that after 5 years D3 is the best blizzard could come out with? a bascally watered down worse than diablo 1 game. The game, gameplay wise feels like diablo 0.5. Sad thing is alot of morons will buy it, which just makes excuses for other devs to cop out. Hell they already do especally mmo wise thanks to world of warcraft. Most other games are following the same suit, only savign grace for gaming is the indie devs, they the only ones who actually create shit that feels unique now a days.

    I plan to pirate d3 just to spite blizzard like I do to EA, also before you say it, they had a cracked bnet server thingy you could run on your own pc and connect to your own pc or something to play the diablo 3 beta, so don't say its not crackable.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    How can you review a game that hasn't been released yet.

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 615Member Uncommon

    "John: Hey Bob, what did you do yesterday?

    Bob: Hey man, i've been playing this D3 open beta thing

    John: Oh cool, how is it?

    Bob: Oh i tell u man it's shit they removed the skill trees so it is dumbed down, also the graphics are not like D2, it's crap man

    John: omg cant wait to get home and post this on mmorpg.com! "

     

    Jokes aside, how much do YOU know about D3? Every other day, theres people starting threads on this, how the game is not "complex" anymore and how you lost your customisation choices and how it is dumbed down etc. I've felt the same way a while ago, was dissapointed about the lack of skill trees, about the RMAH etc. Instead of bitching my assumptions on these boards, i've started to search for info. I've found a lot of it, the best place where this is summarized is here:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085

    I challenge you to have the patience to read it, and come back with arguments. I've been posting this link at least once per day lately, i'm still waiting for that person able to come back with strong arguments, after understanding the mechanics, what was the developer's view. I understand and respect the people who just don't like D3 or/and Blizzard whatsoever, it's their right. But please, stop spreading garbage without having a clue.

     

    There's the other two topics on D3

    1. The graphics - either the game is considered "dark" enough then the graphics are "so not 2012" or the graphics are "too trendy" and the game should look 2005-like as Path of Exile does. Here i cannot have any arguments, to each it's own.

    2. The RMAH - please, again, do your research before bitching about that

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by IPolygon

    How can you review a game that hasn't been released yet.

    There was a recent open beta stress test of what most likely is the final game client since its so close to launch. The core gameplay is not going to change much as you go into higher level area's especally not in a diablo-like title.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by simmihi

    "John: Hey Bob, what did you do yesterday?

    Bob: Hey man, i've been playing this D3 open beta thing

    John: Oh cool, how is it?

    Bob: Oh i tell u man it's shit they removed the skill trees so it is dumbed down, also the graphics are not like D2, it's crap man

    John: omg cant wait to get home and post this on mmorpg.com! "

     

    Jokes aside, how much do YOU know about D3? Every other day, theres people starting threads on this, how the game is not "complex" anymore and how you lost your customisation choices and how it is dumbed down etc. I've felt the same way a while ago, was dissapointed about the lack of skill trees, about the RMAH etc. Instead of bitching my assumptions on these boards, i've started to search for info. I've found a lot of it, the best place where this is summarized is here:

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085

    I challenge you to have the patience to read it, and come back with arguments. I've been posting this link at least once per day lately, i'm still waiting for that person able to come back with strong arguments, after understanding the mechanics, what was the developer's view. I understand and respect the people who just don't like D3 or/and Blizzard whatsoever, it's their right. But please, stop spreading garbage without having a clue.

     

    There's the other two topics on D3

    1. The graphics - either the game is considered "dark" enough then the graphics are "so not 2012" or the graphics are "too trendy" and the game should look 2005-like as Path of Exile does. Here i cannot have any arguments, to each it's own.

    2. The RMAH - please, again, do your research before bitching about that



    That is a very good read. Changed my view on the game a bit, but I still am not fond of the way they did it, it seems like it was done solely to make more items people can throw in the rmt ah just to make blizzard more money.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 615Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Siveria

    That is a very good read. Changed my view on the game a bit, but I still am not fond of the way they did it, it seems like it was done solely to make more items people can throw in the rmt ah just to make blizzard more money.

    Thanks for reading Siveria (no i'm not bumping my post there, it's not mine, it's on the US severs, i'm EU). About the RMAH, i started by strongly disliking the idea but now i don't feel the same. I find trading between players with the company taking their cut to be a much much better option than a cash shop. In fact, i'd like to see it expanded to some free to play (or changing from p2p to f2p) games out there (developed by serious companies)

     

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member

    Originally posted by Siveria

    I won't buy diablo 3 because of how you have no choice on yoru chars advancemenbt of any kind, every skill and rune etc is given to you. No stat or skill builds, half the fun of diablo 2 was making skill builds that were diffrent than the norm. in D3? Nope not allow, blizzard just pigeon holes you down the same path on the same class no matter who is playing that class, Sorry but when a f2p diablo clone can have a proper skill/stat/passive system (Torchlight 2 and Path of exile) Blizzard has no damn excuse for not having it other than plain laziness, especally after how many years has d3 been in dev? 5 years? Its pretty sad that after 5 years D3 is the best blizzard could come out with? a bascally watered down worse than diablo 1 game. The game, gameplay wise feels like diablo 0.5. Sad thing is alot of morons will buy it, which just makes excuses for other devs to cop out. Hell they already do especally mmo wise thanks to world of warcraft. Most other games are following the same suit, only savign grace for gaming is the indie devs, they the only ones who actually create shit that feels unique now a days.

    I plan to pirate d3 just to spite blizzard like I do to EA, also before you say it, they had a cracked bnet server thingy you could run on your own pc and connect to your own pc or something to play the diablo 3 beta, so don't say its not crackable.

    Um...Just because you don't understand the complexity of the game systems doesn't mean they are dumbed down.

    Let's look at your arguments.

     

    1. No stat builds. 

    This is just incorrect. Did you know that there are more stats available with gems in D3 than there were in D2 throughout the entirety of charachter progression?  Instead of assigning stats from leveling up now, stats have been moved to gear. Stat builds will still be important!

     

    2. No skill builds

    Also incorrect, there are going to be more viable ability builds in this game than in D2 because of the rune system.  Each ability can use 5 different runes. You can only use six abilities at a time. The runes radically alter the skills. You pick which skills/runes you want and that is what your skill build is. The combinations number in the billions. 

     

    Nevermind, its to complicated for you to wrap your brain around I can see. 

     

    3. Blizzard made this game this way because they are lazy.

    Game developers work long days well over 40 hours a week generally. They spend a lot of time crafting their products. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's lazy.  I am sick and tired of hearing this argument. It is simply not true. 

    Here's an idea. Go get a degree. Get a job in game development and come back here and tell me that they are lazy. You won't last one year before you burn out from the amount of work that goes into making a high budget video game.

    This statement demonstrates your ignorance of video game development cycles, and frankly it makes you look like a jerk. 

     

     

    4. Piracy is the solution:

    This just makes you a criminal. IF the game is as bad as you say it is, and not worth your money, than you should not play it. The fact that you are willing to pirate it and crack it just goes to show how badly you actually want to play the game. It's kind of funny that you admit that you're going to steal it when you sit here and tell us how bad the game is.

     

    If it's so bad, why are you going to spend your time playing it at all?   Have fun playing Diablo 3 by yourself!

    Shadow's Hand Guild
    Open recruitment for

    The Secret World - Dragons

    Planetside 2 - Terran Republic

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    http://www.shadowshand.com

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member

    Originally posted by MikkelB

    Originally posted by Hurvart

    People can like D3 for what it is and still think it feels like a different genre and not a true Diablo sequel. From a ARPG point of view its dumb down and also lacks the sense of darkness, horror and danger that some diablo fans think is essential.

    This I think makes it a better action game. If you just want to kill things and find loot...And if you want a streamlined game without much complexity that the typical action gamer would think was tedious and boring. Its not a bad action game...but not really a sequel.

    And, of course, they had to remove features to get ready for release. Like PvP, rune(item) system and more. They could have delayed it til 2013...But they wanted to release now.

    They streamlined Diablo 3 when compared to Diablo 2. Not "dumbed down". Diablo 2 wasn't complex. Like they tried to explain in the few posts above yours, there were only a few builds that worked in Nightmare and Hell mode of Diablo 2. Ofcourse, you could do pretty much whatever you wanted in the Normal mode, but Normal ended pretty much around level 30-40. If you wanted to succeed in Hell mode, you was pretty much limited to perhaps 3 builds a champion. That's not complex, that's limited. Same goes for the skill points. Yes, you could pretty much put everything in dex and str. Normal mode would be once again be the end of the line for you then.

    Blizzard removed the skill points allocation (well, it happens automatically now) and removed the talent trees. No more putting 20 bloody points in one skill. Just pick the skill you want and use it. If anything, Diablo 3 is more complex then it's predecessors, because most, if not every skill, is viable now. Instead of picking 1 out of 3 builds, you play the game. I really fail to see how that is "dumbed down".

    Blizzard could have done something with talent trees and a respec system. The thing is, if you allow unlimited respecs, you can jsut scrap the whole system, because at that moment, the trees are pretty much obsolete. That's how I see it at least.

    For me, the darkness and horror are still there. Pretty much the same scenery as in the first two games, albeit with more of the scenery visible. The contrast is more present too. Nice, lush areas, filled with undead creatures, mutilated bodies and the horrors of a demonic invasion. The danger was not present in the demo for me, but I'm confident that the difficulty will increase when we get further in the game.

    I wish that people would give some examples of darkness and horror that can be found in Diablo 1 and 2, instead of reusing these hollow arguments.



    Streamlined or dumbed down is subjective. It depends on how you play and on what you like. People will have different opinions.

    Based on my own experience I dont think its true that you could only use "cookie cutter" builds or only 3 builds for each class. I think I must have leveled up 30-40 characters to lv 85 or higher in D2. I tried a lot of different builds based on my own ideas and things I wanted to try for fun. Some of them was bad of course. Some failed after normal. But often it was possible to finish hell difficulty with enough patience and good enough gear. I liked to play that way...To experiment and try crazy fun ideas. If you tell me something is impossible I will probably try to do it.

    I think trying to find Andariel or Mephisto was fun. It was dangerous and dark and there was horror. It was not easy to find the next level. If you used teleport and played like a powergamer you could do it fast. But if you played a character without teleport and wanted to have fun it was a good experience. And I think limited light radius was very important. Without that it would not be the same experience at all.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    I didn't even get past the first page of posts. I about fell out of my chair in fits of laughter.

    "real fans won't buy D3" "if you like it, you never played Diablo" "I reviewed a game not yet released or even fully available for beta testing to the general public"

     

     

    Good stuff there, man. Good stuff.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,960Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dubyahite

    I'm a "real" Diablo fan and I will buy D3. Weird.



    I think a more accurate statement would be "blizzard Haters will not buy D3. Because they have built up years and years of Blizzard hate and could not reconcile the contradiction"

    Dude, Blizzard make other games as well.

    You can still be a fan of Wow, SC2 or other Blizzard games and hate D3.

    I get what OP means and think Blizz should have used the Warcraft setting for this game instead, we woul´dn´t be having that discussion then. Because it ain´t a bad game but it ain´t a Diablo game either. It just lack that dark feeling Diablo had.

  • MikkelBMikkelB SteenwijkPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by Hurvart

    *quoted*



    Streamlined or dumbed down is subjective. It depends on how you play and on what you like. People will have different opinions.

    Based on my own experience I dont think its true that you could only use "cookie cutter" builds or only 3 builds for each class. I think I must have leveled up 30-40 characters to lv 85 or higher in D2. I tried a lot of different builds based on my own ideas and things I wanted to try for fun. Some of them was bad of course. Some failed after normal. But often it was possible to finish hell difficulty with enough patience and good enough gear. I liked to play that way...To experiment and try crazy fun ideas. If you tell me something is impossible I will probably try to do it.

    I think trying to find Andariel or Mephisto was fun. It was dangerous and dark and there was horror. It was not easy to find the next level. If you used teleport and played like a powergamer you could do it fast. But if you played a character without teleport and wanted to have fun it was a good experience. And I think limited light radius was very important. Without that it would not be the same experience at all.

    No one is forcing you to only play one champion each. One of the problems I had with Diablo 2 is the fact that the game forces you too start from the beginning if you wanted to try something else. After doing that for five or six times, it started to get boring. But yes, if you liked that and if you really leveled around 40 characters, then I can understand why you are kind of put of by the way progression works in Diablo 3.

    I will still disagree with anyone that thinks that this is "dumbing down". That is in no way the case in Diablo 3. I think that the game will be much harder then Diablo 2, because of the fact that every champion has all the skills available at level 60. Because of that Blizzard can make the Inferno difficulty really hard and I hope that they will do that. If they pull this off, then players will need to use their whole skill set to make it through the Inferno difficulty. By giving players access to all the skills, it's possible to make Diablo 3 a whole bit "deeper" then any of the predecessors. I've to say, this possibility makes me kind of excited :)

    I hope that you will give Diablo 3 a chance, because I think that the way Diablo 3 handles progression promotes experimenting with skills, at least at the higher difficulties.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,661Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Saneless

    As someone who has been dreaming of Diablo 3 since it was first announced, lurking the website daily i feel as if the game does not retain its original image or feel the series used to have. I am not going to attempt to bash the game or create a hate thread, im going to state general facts of the game and the series.

    1. Graphics (not this again)

    Diablo 2, one of the most popular levels in the game by its general design and wow factor

    http://0.tqn.com/d/compactiongames/1/0/X/2/diablo210.jpg

    Diablo 3, new updated graphics engine, the same used to create world of warcraft, and starcraft II is reused here. Now blizzard did this in its previous games as sc2 and d2 used the same graphics engines which there is nothing wrong with but the feel of these games has changed drastically.

    http://ninjalite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/diablo-3-screenshot6.jpg

    D3, has a lighter tone than the original 2 games, that much is obvious but what is hidden is how that changes the gameplay. Graphics dont make a game, but in d2 the darkness of a cave or prison and being surrounded by monsters from hell who also looked dark and scary changed the vibe. ok

    Graphics are a bit lighter but so were Diablo 2's graphics compared to Diablo 1. There's also a plugin/mod or whatever it's called which makes the game much darker if that's what floats your boat.

    2. Gameplay

    Gameplay essentially remains at the core of what D2 was, and i feel like they have done a good job in keeping this with the series.

    3. Level design

    D3 does a horrible job at this from what we have seen so far. Most of the levels look like they were copied and pasted and renamed. You see this in the cathedral, also in D2 you would spend a good amount of time trying to find the right way to go and it made you feel accomplished when you get out of that damned place. In D3 i didnt see much of this it felt like the levels were just meant to be ran throughn

    You've only seen only the tutorial. Do you remember Diablo 2 act 1? There was no way to get lost until you got to the Barracks onwards. Everything was follow the road and you will get there.

    4. PvP

    The best part of D2 was the fact you would just sit in town and duel, we didnt need capture the flag or 3 on 3s (although they did happen), D3 has lost this and turned it more into a tournament style of fighting than what it used to be, and while it wont be out when the game is released blizzard isnt know for changing a design like this

    I agree. Dueling was so fun. That was what kept me going after I grinded the crap out of the game. I would hope that Diablo 3 has that but if it can recreate this in a arena based PvP it's okay. But I've no idea how this is going to turn out yet.

    5. Monster design

    Blizzard north was amazing with the bosses they designed, they scared us, and made us fear Diablo. I didnt ever expect i would run into a fluffy marshmellow man like you will in D3.

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/06/3thousand-pounder-summoned_530x298.jpg

    Monster looks fine to me.



    6. DRM/Offline play

    D2 had 2 different online game modes and a single player mode D3 has 1 single player mode and 1 multiplayer mode.

    Open B.net anyone?

    Open B.net was horrible for anyone that ever played it, filled with hackers and hacked items that were always insanely over powered and stupidly named but it was fun and kept some playing, doubt well see this in diablo

    Open battlenet was a steaming pile of crap. Playing open battlenet was beyond stupid, boring and retarded tbh.

    7. (OPINION) Blizzard has changed.

    http://www.grindinggear.com/?page=staff

    scroll to the bottom of this page, looks a little like the original blizzard team doesnt it?



    Blizzard is not what it used to be. The games they produce now are geared towards a different audience, the belief that the "WoW formula" worked once and it must end eventually. Games like path of exile are giving us vets what we wanted and blizzard refuses. We asked for a Diablo themed ARPG and instead we get this instead. The same can be said about starcraft 2, we wanted a SC2 and what we got was starcraft, cartoon graphics, shitty balance issues (the original had them but not nearly as bad as sc2), and a horrible battle.net Diablo 3 will be a continuation of this. Diablo isnt a sequel, its world of warcraft with a top down view, 6 skills, and graphics that look like hell. PoE may not be the greatest graphics but they are far from outdated, the gameplay is better, feels better, and whats we true diablo fans wanted.

    The real Diablo fans will not buy Diablo 3, the rest of you who are saw the add on the world of warcraft forums and will but it because its pretty.

    How can you say that? I will buy Diablo 3 and I am a real Diablo fan. I would be surprised if  you or any of the other posters on these forums have played Diablo more than me.

     

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • IrusIrus Wichita, KSPosts: 774Member

    I'll never understand people who apply dates to graphics.

    How a game looks is how a game looks. How dated it is should be rather irrelevant. There are still many older games that look great.

    If you want pretty shaders go play CoD.

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    It's a dumbed down version of D2 but it is still fun.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • MikkelBMikkelB SteenwijkPosts: 240Member

    Originally posted by Mephster

    It's a dumbed down version of D2 but it is still fun.

    Ah yes, I agree. The fact that you don't have to manually pick up gold anymore makes the game so much easier then it's predecessors. It's so dumbed down image

  • DraftbeerDraftbeer SzarvasPosts: 517Member Common

    Originally posted by MikkelB

    Originally posted by Mephster

    It's a dumbed down version of D2 but it is still fun.

    Ah yes, I agree. The fact that you don't have to manually pick up gold anymore makes the game so much easier then it's predecessors. It's so dumbed down image

    Thanks god I don't have to do that anymore^^

    It stole MINUTES of my life after every bigger fight in D2

    QQ

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,661Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Draftbeer

    Originally posted by MikkelB


    Originally posted by Mephster

    It's a dumbed down version of D2 but it is still fun.

    Ah yes, I agree. The fact that you don't have to manually pick up gold anymore makes the game so much easier then it's predecessors. It's so dumbed down image

    Thanks god I don't have to do that anymore^^

    It stole MINUTES of my life after every bigger fight in D2

    QQ

    :(

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by fivoroth

    Originally posted by Draftbeer


    Originally posted by MikkelB


    Originally posted by Mephster

    It's a dumbed down version of D2 but it is still fun.

    Ah yes, I agree. The fact that you don't have to manually pick up gold anymore makes the game so much easier then it's predecessors. It's so dumbed down image

    Thanks god I don't have to do that anymore^^

    It stole MINUTES of my life after every bigger fight in D2

    QQ

    :(

         So you would rather run around the room manually picking up spare change like a desperate bum?

         Why not just pick it up on walk-over like it is now? Does it really add anything to the game to have to run to each little change pile to pick it up?

         In real life when I kill a giant butcher he doesn't spew change all over the room. Oh wait..None of this could possibly happen in real life.

         yes the game needs to be grounded in some form of reality (Why do I have to walk everywhere? just teleport to the end!) but picking up the gold, getting lost in giant fields, and going down a streamlined character development path were not fun. Just as someone above noted one of my biggest gripes with D2's system is that you were stuck with whatever you chose for forever. I got bored using the same skills over and over again.

         That being said D3 is just a natural progression. If they allowed respec then that makes skill trees pretty much useless no? You can see how they came do doing it this way. It wasn't lazy-ness to scrap them it was common sense.

         They already knew they wanted some way to respec, that was one of the largest complaints from the community about D2. Took way too long to experiment with high level builds. Originally D3 did just have a respec system but then they noticed, hey..this pretty much makes skill tree's obsolete. You can just go back to town to change a skill anyways, this is just making it more complicated by forcing you to put back all of your skill points.

         So instead of that, get rid of the trees and just give them the skills, they practically have all of them anyways because they can respec. So they made it so you had all the skills but had to be in town (originally) to change them. People didn't really like that, why do I have to be in town to change the skills?

         So then it naturally progressed into, you can change them anywhere but you won't be able to do it in battle really and it gives the skills a cooldown. This means you won't just have access to all skills and must make a choice before combat on which to use. The first way just added tedium as people would treck back to town to change skills ALL THE TIME and they hated trecking back and forth.

         Blizzard has impressed me by how well they listened to the community and their testers. All of their systems are natural progressions of what people complained about.

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    D3 is awesome , they got rid of the annoying things like having to go to town and sell stuff .

    Now its more action than ever .

     

    ACTION RPG remember ?

     

    There are so many different build combinations to suit different areas and battles ,   more defense needed ? more damage ? more aoe ...   Unlike games like POE where respecing is a nightmare ... if you mess up good luck farming orbs of regret to respec each skill 1 by 1 in its messy skill tree.

     

     

     

     

  • ThraliaThralia EngerPosts: 219Member

    Originally posted by Saneless

    As someone who has been dreaming of Diablo 3 since it was first announced, lurking the website daily i feel as if the game does not retain its original image or feel the series used to have. I am not going to attempt to bash the game or create a hate thread, im going to state general facts of the game and the series.

    1. Graphics (not this again)

    Diablo 2, one of the most popular levels in the game by its general design and wow factor

    http://0.tqn.com/d/compactiongames/1/0/X/2/diablo210.jpg

    Diablo 3, new updated graphics engine, the same used to create world of warcraft, and starcraft II is reused here. Now blizzard did this in its previous games as sc2 and d2 used the same graphics engines which there is nothing wrong with but the feel of these games has changed drastically.

    http://ninjalite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/diablo-3-screenshot6.jpg

    D3, has a lighter tone than the original 2 games, that much is obvious but what is hidden is how that changes the gameplay. Graphics dont make a game, but in d2 the darkness of a cave or prison and being surrounded by monsters from hell who also looked dark and scary changed the vibe.

    2. Gameplay

    Gameplay essentially remains at the core of what D2 was, and i feel like they have done a good job in keeping this with the series.

    3. Level design

    D3 does a horrible job at this from what we have seen so far. Most of the levels look like they were copied and pasted and renamed. You see this in the cathedral, also in D2 you would spend a good amount of time trying to find the right way to go and it made you feel accomplished when you get out of that damned place. In D3 i didnt see much of this it felt like the levels were just meant to be ran through.

    4. PvP

    The best part of D2 was the fact you would just sit in town and duel, we didnt need capture the flag or 3 on 3s (although they did happen), D3 has lost this and turned it more into a tournament style of fighting than what it used to be, and while it wont be out when the game is released blizzard isnt know for changing a design like this.

    5. Monster design

    Blizzard north was amazing with the bosses they designed, they scared us, and made us fear Diablo. I didnt ever expect i would run into a fluffy marshmellow man like you will in D3.

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/06/3thousand-pounder-summoned_530x298.jpg



    6. DRM/Offline play

    D2 had 2 different online game modes and a single player mode D3 has 1 single player mode and 1 multiplayer mode.

    Open B.net anyone?

    Open B.net was horrible for anyone that ever played it, filled with hackers and hacked items that were always insanely over powered and stupidly named but it was fun and kept some playing, doubt well see this in diablo 3.

    7. (OPINION) Blizzard has changed.

    http://www.grindinggear.com/?page=staff

    scroll to the bottom of this page, looks a little like the original blizzard team doesnt it?



    Blizzard is not what it used to be. The games they produce now are geared towards a different audience, the belief that the "WoW formula" worked once and it must end eventually. Games like path of exile are giving us vets what we wanted and blizzard refuses. We asked for a Diablo themed ARPG and instead we get this instead. The same can be said about starcraft 2, we wanted a SC2 and what we got was starcraft, cartoon graphics, shitty balance issues (the original had them but not nearly as bad as sc2), and a horrible battle.net Diablo 3 will be a continuation of this. Diablo isnt a sequel, its world of warcraft with a top down view, 6 skills, and graphics that look like hell. PoE may not be the greatest graphics but they are far from outdated, the gameplay is better, feels better, and whats we true diablo fans wanted.

    The real Diablo fans will not buy Diablo 3, the rest of you who are saw the add on the world of warcraft forums and will but it because its pretty.

     



    What WE wanted? speak for urself dude! as a d1 +hellfire n d2+lod vet D3 give sme exactly what I wanted! game preordered n i loved the beta,

  • I "hate" what World of WarCraft has become as much as anyone, but games like StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3 are the real deal. Top notch quality and improvements over the previous iterations of the series. There's no missing the love the designers had for the previous games. And that's an important part of what makes the new iterations so great.

  • NightvergeNightverge Puyallup, WAPosts: 211Member

    Originally posted by Axxar

    I "hate" what World of WarCraft has become as much as anyone, but games like StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3 are the real deal. Top notch quality and improvements over the previous iterations of the series. There's no missing the love the designers had for the previous games. And that's an important part of what makes the new iterations so great.

         True statement. I'm also not a skeptic of everything like most people I see on forums. I believe that, although I don't like WoW, blizzard is the best PC developer of all time. Yes, OF ALL TIME. Mostly because each of their games are gold to the audience they are designed to reach.

         When WoW first hit shelves it was hailed as the greatest RPG of all time. In that time, it was. To many it still is. I disagree with that but I concede and note that WoW still has millions of subscriptions almost a decade later. That is rediculas.

         While yes, popularity does not mean a great game (even that statement is entirely subjective. If a game is super popular then obviously its great to a whole lot of people and can be judged as 'great' even if you don't agree) in and of itself. As I said in that little side note though (wedged without grace into my previous sentance) if a game is popular then obviously a lot of people like it. One opinion only equals the weight of one opinion. So just because I don't like the game personally does not outweight the opinions of millions who do. If millions consider the game great then, to me, its great. I still don't like it.

         My point is even if you don't like these games they fulfill their target wonderfully with a level of polish no other game has. D3 represents everything that the genre wants right now. I know that is true because the game had a lenghty beta periode to advance its features. As aforementioned in my previous posts the lack of skill tree, for example, was what players asked for and is a stream of logic. That stream, simplified, is as so: People hated being locked into skill trees - Respec was added - people noted that a skill tree with a respec option is essentially a more tedius way of changing your usable skills - SKILL TREE WAS REMOVED - people noted that having to run all the way back to town to change your usable skills was tedius - the option to change skills, with limiting boundries to encourage out of combat swapping, on the fly was added.

         Thus you have our system in D3, a more refined version of exactly what everybody wanted anyways. Skill tree's aren't there because all people really wanted in skill tree's was to choose their usable skills anyways. So now you unlock the skills but must choose which to use (the same decision as you would make through a skill tree with a respec system) at the moment.

        However, in the long run it doesn't matter. Me and thousands, maybe even millions, others will love the hell out of the game. I hope everyone else finds a game they enjoy just as much.

  • MurlockDanceMurlockDance ParisPosts: 1,223Member

    Originally posted by Saneless

    As someone who has been dreaming of Diablo 3 since it was first announced, lurking the website daily i feel as if the game does not retain its original image or feel the series used to have. I am not going to attempt to bash the game or create a hate thread, im going to state general facts of the game and the series.

    Your post is not really factual at all. It is pretty subjective. Don't confuse opinion for facts.

    1. Graphics (not this again)

    D3, has a lighter tone than the original 2 games, that much is obvious but what is hidden is how that changes the gameplay. Graphics dont make a game, but in d2 the darkness of a cave or prison and being surrounded by monsters from hell who also looked dark and scary changed the vibe.

    I don't know about the engine used so won't comment. I agree with you that graphics or more like art direction can affect a person emotionally and give a vibe to the game. The darkness was a cool aspect of D1/D2 (D1 was much darker, and items with +light stats on them were actually useful). However many people used maphack so perhaps Blizzard decided to do away with darkness altogether? Not an excuse since I liked the dark, gritty atmosphere of D1 (D2 was not as dark and gritty), but if people overall didn't seem to like it, perhaps that is why it was taken out of the game?

    2. Gameplay

    Gameplay essentially remains at the core of what D2 was, and i feel like they have done a good job in keeping this with the series.

    That to me is the most essential part. The atmosphere is not as important, nor is the RMAH as long as I can choose who enters my games.

    3. Level design

    D3 does a horrible job at this from what we have seen so far. Most of the levels look like they were copied and pasted and renamed. You see this in the cathedral, also in D2 you would spend a good amount of time trying to find the right way to go and it made you feel accomplished when you get out of that damned place. In D3 i didnt see much of this it felt like the levels were just meant to be ran through.

    Unfortunately, many of the D1 and D2 boards were similar as well. One thing that was cool in some areas were the secret rooms with hoards of treasure (or something like that) were awaiting to be discovered. But pretty much each "cave" or "den" in Act1 D2 looked the same as any other, except that maybe you had green zombies as opposed to blue zombies as you began to progress through the act. Once you knew the general layouts of the world though, you had no more surprises.

    5. Monster design

    Blizzard north was amazing with the bosses they designed, they scared us, and made us fear Diablo. I didnt ever expect i would run into a fluffy marshmellow man like you will in D3.

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/06/3thousand-pounder-summoned_530x298.jpg

    There were always the joke mobs in D1 and D2 (especially in the latter game). You had devilkins, the lizards that puked acid on you (forgot their name), leapers, and fetiches one can hardly call scary.



    6. DRM/Offline play

    D2 had 2 different online game modes and a single player mode D3 has 1 single player mode and 1 multiplayer mode.

    This has me irritated as I have said many times before on this forum. D1 and D2 are definitely superior in that sense..

    7. (OPINION) Blizzard has changed.

    http://www.grindinggear.com/?page=staff

    scroll to the bottom of this page, looks a little like the original blizzard team doesnt it?



    Blizzard is not what it used to be. The games they produce now are geared towards a different audience, the belief that the "WoW formula" worked once and it must end eventually. Games like path of exile are giving us vets what we wanted and blizzard refuses. We asked for a Diablo themed ARPG and instead we get this instead. The same can be said about starcraft 2, we wanted a SC2 and what we got was starcraft, cartoon graphics, shitty balance issues (the original had them but not nearly as bad as sc2), and a horrible battle.net Diablo 3 will be a continuation of this. Diablo isnt a sequel, its world of warcraft with a top down view, 6 skills, and graphics that look like hell. PoE may not be the greatest graphics but they are far from outdated, the gameplay is better, feels better, and whats we true diablo fans wanted.

    I am interested in all of the ARPG games coming out since I am a big fan of the genre. I find your assessment that no real Diablo fan would like this game is wrong. You can't assume what any given person is going to like or dislike. Just let us form our own opinions and don't judge us if we do not agree with you.

    The real Diablo fans will not buy Diablo 3, the rest of you who are saw the add on the world of warcraft forums and will but it because its pretty.

    I hated D2 when it first came out. I shelved it for many months, but when I picked it up again, I got addicted and played it solidly from 1999 to 2002. I still played it from time-to-time until patch 11. I am willing to give D3 a shot. As an ARPG/Diablo fan I can not pass it up.

    For those of you who keep saying that D3 is easysauce, how can you judge? You have played the easiest part of the game on the easiest setting (based on D1 and D2 experiences). There are three other difficulty modes and other acts to go through.

    Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

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