No matter what anyone says, to me DEs triumphs over a better combat any day. I don't care if its simply the delivery of quests that is different in DEs because honestly, I just don't feel that way. To me it truly feels fresh and I can see DEs simply getting better and better in higher level zones.
TERA is just he overall better game. It beat out Guild Wars 2 in every aspect other then questing which is just not enough to make Guild Wars 2 better. Its not that TERA uses the same old questing method that hurts it but rather the quest them selves could have been better. Dynamic Events are nonthing new to the genre at all and this is the only thing Guild Wars 2 has going for it. TERA totally destroys Guild Wars 2 in Combat, Graphics, PVP, Mob AI and group mechanics. Instanced Zones and instanced pvp as a side mechanic are steps backward not foward. I watched streams of group combat in Guild Wars 2 and everbody is just standing still spamming skills. From one beta weekend people are already saying they did the same event 4-5 times. Thats just 1 weekend of playing the game so how is this going to be when the game releases and people are playing everday? People have already seen everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer already in just 1 weekend. TERA fans are still waiting to see things like the much anticipated Political System, Guild Housing and Dynamic Events which are also comming.
Not saying Guild Wars 2 is a bad game but just because I get a quest from walking into the area instead of having to talk to somebody just does not make the game better. This has already been done before in games like Rift and Warhammer.
TERA is just he overall better game. It beat out Guild Wars 2 in every aspect other then questing which is just not enough to make Guild Wars 2 better. Its not that TERA uses the same old questing method that hurts it but rather the quest them selves could have been better. Dynamic Events are nonthing new to the genre at all and this is the only thing Guild Wars 2 has going for it. TERA totally destroys Guild Wars 2 in Combat, Graphics, PVP, Mob AI and group mechanics. Instanced Zones and instanced pvp as a side mechanic are steps backward not foward. I watched streams of group combat in Guild Wars 2 and everbody is just standing still spamming skills. From one beta weekend people are already saying they did the same event 4-5 times. Thats just 1 weekend of playing the game so how is this going to be when the game releases and people are playing everday? People have already seen everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer already in just 1 weekend. TERA fans are still waiting to see things like the much anticipated Political System, Guild Housing and Dynamic Events which are also comming.
Not saying Guild Wars 2 is a bad game but just because I get a quest from walking into the area instead of having to talk to somebody just does not make the game better. This has already been done before in games like Rift and Warhammer.
Ok I play both games. You need to do more homework before posting things.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
TERA is just he overall better game. It beat out Guild Wars 2 in every aspect other then questing which is just not enough to make Guild Wars 2 better. Its not that TERA uses the same old questing method that hurts it but rather the quest them selves could have been better. Dynamic Events are nonthing new to the genre at all and this is the only thing Guild Wars 2 has going for it. TERA totally destroys Guild Wars 2 in Combat, Graphics, PVP, Mob AI and group mechanics. Instanced Zones and instanced pvp as a side mechanic are steps backward not foward. I watched streams of group combat in Guild Wars 2 and everbody is just standing still spamming skills. From one beta weekend people are already saying they did the same event 4-5 times. Thats just 1 weekend of playing the game so how is this going to be when the game releases and people are playing everday? People have already seen everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer already in just 1 weekend. TERA fans are still waiting to see things like the much anticipated Political System, Guild Housing and Dynamic Events which are also comming.
Not saying Guild Wars 2 is a bad game but just because I get a quest from walking into the area instead of having to talk to somebody just does not make the game better. This has already been done before in games like Rift and Warhammer.
Ok I play both games. You need to do more homework before posting things.
Me too, I play both and I agree with Mannish, TERA is better in every aspect than GW2. Maybe YOU need to do more homework.
Ok I play both games. You need to do more homework before posting things.
Me too, I play both and I agree with Mannish, TERA is better in every aspect than GW2. Maybe YOU need to do more homework.
Now you are hurting our 50 year old generation again by telling lies. In a previous post today you didn't even know what the downed Fight to Survive bar was. Don't tell me you have played both.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
TERA fans are still waiting to see things like the much anticipated Political System, Guild Housing and Dynamic Events which are also comming.
Tera is not implementing dynamic events, it is, politely put, "borrowing" rifts from Rift. Heck, they're even called "Dark Rifts" or "Black Cracks".
Appearing Rifts
The Rifts can appear in Argonea, Kargonea and Kanobia Wires. Once a Rift opens, monsters will invade the place. Players have to collaborate by defeating the rampaging monsters and closing the Rifts.
Closing Rifts
Once all phases of the invasion have been stopped, the Rifts will close and players get compensated for completing the corresponding quests.
Everything else aside, which is primarily a matter of personal opinion and taste, to compare these rifts with the hundreds of hours of dynamic events in GW2 is hardly appropriate.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Ok I play both games. You need to do more homework before posting things.
Me too, I play both and I agree with Mannish, TERA is better in every aspect than GW2. Maybe YOU need to do more homework.
Now you are hurting our 50 year old generation again by telling lies. In a previous post today you didn't even know what the downed Fight to Survive bar was. Don't tell me you have played both.
What do you want? That I show you the purchase receipts? And you have a serious problem with your age, man.
On this front Guild Wars 2 felt similar to every MMO I’ve played in the last decade at the basic gameplay level. It’s more refined in many aspects but it’s not revolutionary by any means.
I was VERY surprised to see this, because my experiences could not have differed by more. I almost thought he was being sarcastic at first, but... he's honest? Weird
For me, the experience of playing with my thief and desperately kiting an entire group of mobs with my bow, throwing out caltraps, teleporting around, dodging, then swapping to my dagger and gun to get a quick kill on a mob, then deseprately trying to get safe again... well, it felt more original and engaging than ANY GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED much less the typical mmo combat system.
TERA, by contrast, felt exactly like every other mmo's base combat mechanics... with action combat? It sounds like I did not get far enough into the game to really appreciate it, and maybe it does get even better than GW2's combat eventually (GW2's group combat mechanics and boss fights are lacking, imo).
Unfortunately, I will never know how good TERA really is, because despite how good the game becomes, it hides everything that is good about it from the player. Many people expect this from MMOs, and so accept that as par for the course.
I loathe those people and the effect they have on gaming more than anyone has ever hated a WoW kiddy for the same reason.
Because of this design philosophy of not trying to make the experience enjoyable until later, TERA has effectively created the single WORST MMORPG GAMING EXPERIENCE I have ever had, and I could not bear to play more than an hour before I quit.
I don't have leisure time to do unfun stuff in order to have fun later. I will never again grind, and I will quit every MMO the second that I feel like that's what I'm doing. For this reason I will never again play TERA, and GW2 is the clear victor.
Ok I play both games. You need to do more homework before posting things.
Me too, I play both and I agree with Mannish, TERA is better in every aspect than GW2. Maybe YOU need to do more homework.
Now you are hurting our 50 year old generation again by telling lies. In a previous post today you didn't even know what the downed Fight to Survive bar was. Don't tell me you have played both.
What do you want? That I show you the purchase receipts? And you have a serious problem with your age, man.
My age is perfect for the date I was born and I have no problem with that. I'm just calling you out. You lied. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4959648#4959648 In this post you made you had no clue concerning a well known feature of GW2 and yet you say you play both. Enough of this. Act your age and quit trying to be so dramatic when you are defending Tera. It's a video game. I don't like liars.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
TERA may have the boring quest grind system in place, but what of the DE's? Are they not merely quest grinding? Won't the same DE get old the 5th time you've done it on the 3rd character you are leveling? I'm not going to base my opinions of a game on something that will be dull in a month anyways. GW2 has no character progression. For people that love spamming battlegrounds / WvWvW I'm sure this is fine, but for people that play MMORPGs for character progression and advancement, GW2 will be a 1 month affair.
I also don't know how people can even begin to compare GW2s combat to TERAs. Run around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off hoping that your latency is better than your enemies (GW2) or strategic aim-based combat where every move you make has benefits / risks associated with it (TERA).
That being said, I play TERA now, and will buy GW2 as well. The DE's will be fun to see once and I'm sure I can hop in PVP from time to time. GW2 will always just be a secondary game though, but with no sub? Who cares.
I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.
There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.
Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.
Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.
You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.
I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.
Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.
I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.
TERA fans are still waiting to see things like the much anticipated Political System, Guild Housing and Dynamic Events which are also comming.
Tera is not implementing dynamic events, it is, politely put, "borrowing" rifts from Rift. Heck, they're even called "Dark Rifts" or "Black Cracks".
Appearing Rifts
The Rifts can appear in Argonea, Kargonea and Kanobia Wires. Once a Rift opens, monsters will invade the place. Players have to collaborate by defeating the rampaging monsters and closing the Rifts.
Closing Rifts
Once all phases of the invasion have been stopped, the Rifts will close and players get compensated for completing the corresponding quests.
Everything else aside, which is primarily a matter of personal opinion and taste, to compare these rifts with the hundreds of hours of dynamic events in GW2 is hardly appropriate.
Thats still a Dynamic Event which I stated in my post that games like Rift and Warhammer have these also. Just because Guld Wars 2 has more does not mean its not what it is. Things like these are nonthing new and can always be added to any game as they should be.
TERA may have the boring quest grind system in place, but what of the DE's? Are they not merely quest grinding? Won't the same DE get old the 5th time you've done it on the 3rd character you are leveling? I'm not going to base my opinions of a game on something that will be dull in a month anyways. GW2 has no character progression. For people that love spamming battlegrounds / WvWvW I'm sure this is fine, but for people that play MMORPGs for character progression and advancement, GW2 will be a 1 month affair.
I also don't know how people can even begin to compare GW2s combat to TERAs. Run around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off hoping that your latency is better than your enemies (GW2) or strategic aim-based combat where every move you make has benefits / risks associated with it (TERA).
That being said, I play TERA now, and will buy GW2 as well. The DE's will be fun to see once and I'm sure I can hop in PVP from time to time. GW2 will always just be a secondary game though, but with no sub? Who cares.
I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.
There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.
Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.
Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.
You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.
I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.
Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.
I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.
JOIN THE MOVEMENT, STOP USING BETA'S AS DEMOS!
You really shouldn't use that "Anyone who played says it was great" line, because it's not true. I played and got to 25, and I found it pretty uninspiring. Dynamic events really are nothing more than glorified quests. I've done escort quests in other games before. I've had defend the point quests in other games before. I've had clear-out-an-enemy-from-a-base quests before. All of which GW2 takes and presents as dynamic events and expects everyone to drool over them.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
So next time, rethink the whole absolute "Everyone thought it was awesome" statement. It basically disqualifies everything else you say.
TERA may have the boring quest grind system in place, but what of the DE's? Are they not merely quest grinding? Won't the same DE get old the 5th time you've done it on the 3rd character you are leveling? I'm not going to base my opinions of a game on something that will be dull in a month anyways. GW2 has no character progression. For people that love spamming battlegrounds / WvWvW I'm sure this is fine, but for people that play MMORPGs for character progression and advancement, GW2 will be a 1 month affair.
I also don't know how people can even begin to compare GW2s combat to TERAs. Run around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off hoping that your latency is better than your enemies (GW2) or strategic aim-based combat where every move you make has benefits / risks associated with it (TERA).
That being said, I play TERA now, and will buy GW2 as well. The DE's will be fun to see once and I'm sure I can hop in PVP from time to time. GW2 will always just be a secondary game though, but with no sub? Who cares.
I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.
There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.
Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.
Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.
You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.
I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.
Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.
I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.
JOIN THE MOVEMENT, STOP USING BETA'S AS DEMOS!
You really shouldn't use that "Anyone who played says it was great" line, because it's not true. I played and got to 25, and I found it pretty uninspiring. Dynamic events really are nothing more than glorified quests. I've done escort quests in other games before. I've had defend the point quests in other games before. I've had clear-out-an-enemy-from-a-base quests before. All of which GW2 takes and presents as dynamic events and expects everyone to drool over them.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
So next time, rethink the whole absolute "Everyone thought it was awesome" statement. It basically disqualifies everything else you say.
I'll concede there. I really meant to assert a majority assessment. Lets find some common ground. So your saying DE's are glorfied quests right? So you would prefer the quest log approach then? If so then we have nothing more to debate really. That would be a fundamental difference in viewpoint that I disagree with. Hated the old quest log christmas tree quest style.
If we can both admit that this way is better than does our debate really even matter? I am truly shocked that you found them "uninspiring" at 25. I can't even begin to fathom what games you have played to make that seem uninspired. Because of that I also won't attempt to understand it. I played it too and I found it completely revolutionary. I could go on about zone wide DE's but sense you've got to 25. You know all about the ice titan and armies of the deep so I won't go into them.
Is there any chance for an MMO with you then? Of course you've done these things before. That's all there is to do in an MMO. What else could you possibly make the game do aside from some form of gathering, killing, escorting, defending, attacking, preventing, etc? I feel your argument is similar to saying "well GoW is nothing new because I've killed things before". All you ever did in GoW was a giant kill quest. Its not what your doing, its how its presented. As gamers we have been killing, escorting, and solving shit sense mario.
I didn't find it as an ability spam in the least. Again some of the DE's require more balancing so maybe once things have upped in challenge a bit you would play more strategically. I can't say how you approached combat. I can say how I did. I considered every move. By the end if I had chosen a wrong move to use I was dead. I knew when to use heartseeker, flying lotus and, especially, cloak and dagger. I knew when to lay down my utilities and cooked up elaborate plans for luring enemies into traps. For example, as a theif, I was highly mobile. I would roll into combat to avoid any initial strikes, Get a few strikes off, roll out when a hit was emenent. Heartseeker in and use flying lotus immediately after. Allowing me to leap close and then leap over the enemy. From there I'd use my utility to regain my dodge ability and roll out to get space. I'd then use my tripwire utility to trip the enemy and land blows until my intuition got high enough for cloak and dagger. I'd use that move to lower defense and turn invisable. As the searched I would pop out with heartseeker for a crit. That is hardly spamming buttons.
I do appreciate your attack on my unnecessary generalization though. I did generalize only because I have never met someone who experienced it to have the same response as you apparently.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
WHAT?
What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
WHAT?
What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.
I found experienced the same as you did. I question if he actually did play. Not because of any arrogant "he must have not played to have a different view than mine" logic but because I've been lied to many times and caught many people on this very site lying about playing the beta. It is easy to check.
You ask them their account name and check the beta list. All accounts are on a beta list, that list was on the forum's. It might be harder to find now that they are locked I believe. Still though.
So far I'm up to 5 or 6 people who have said they level capped in beta. 2 of them flat out lied and said they hit level 56. Which was impossable sense the beta capped at 30. one other guy said he leveled in a zone not in GW2. Another said he fought world crusher who was not in the beta. Another said he did a dungeon not available in the Beta. The last one only had a GW account and not a GW2 account which is mandatory to play in the beta.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
WHAT?
What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.
To be fair, that's how most people start out playing. That is until they realize that if you stop spamming and time your abilities, you perform better. It takes a bit of practice to realize that certain abilities should be used at certain times.
TERA may have the boring quest grind system in place, but what of the DE's? Are they not merely quest grinding? Won't the same DE get old the 5th time you've done it on the 3rd character you are leveling? I'm not going to base my opinions of a game on something that will be dull in a month anyways. GW2 has no character progression. For people that love spamming battlegrounds / WvWvW I'm sure this is fine, but for people that play MMORPGs for character progression and advancement, GW2 will be a 1 month affair.
I also don't know how people can even begin to compare GW2s combat to TERAs. Run around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off hoping that your latency is better than your enemies (GW2) or strategic aim-based combat where every move you make has benefits / risks associated with it (TERA).
That being said, I play TERA now, and will buy GW2 as well. The DE's will be fun to see once and I'm sure I can hop in PVP from time to time. GW2 will always just be a secondary game though, but with no sub? Who cares.
I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.
There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.
Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.
Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.
You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.
I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.
Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.
I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.
JOIN THE MOVEMENT, STOP USING BETA'S AS DEMOS!
You really shouldn't use that "Anyone who played says it was great" line, because it's not true. I played and got to 25, and I found it pretty uninspiring. Dynamic events really are nothing more than glorified quests. I've done escort quests in other games before. I've had defend the point quests in other games before. I've had clear-out-an-enemy-from-a-base quests before. All of which GW2 takes and presents as dynamic events and expects everyone to drool over them.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
So next time, rethink the whole absolute "Everyone thought it was awesome" statement. It basically disqualifies everything else you say.
I'll concede there. I really meant to assert a majority assessment. Lets find some common ground. So your saying DE's are glorfied quests right? So you would prefer the quest log approach then? If so then we have nothing more to debate really. That would be a fundamental difference in viewpoint that I disagree with. Hated the old quest log christmas tree quest style.
If we can both admit that this way is better than does our debate really even matter? I am truly shocked that you found them "uninspiring" at 25. I can't even begin to fathom what games you have played to make that seem uninspired. Because of that I also won't attempt to understand it. I played it too and I found it completely revolutionary. I could go on about zone wide DE's but sense you've got to 25. You know all about the ice titan and armies of the deep so I won't go into them.
Is there any chance for an MMO with you then? Of course you've done these things before. That's all there is to do in an MMO. What else could you possibly make the game do aside from some form of gathering, killing, escorting, defending, attacking, preventing, etc? I feel your argument is similar to saying "well GoW is nothing new because I've killed things before". All you ever did in GoW was a giant kill quest. Its not what your doing, its how its presented. As gamers we have been killing, escorting, and solving shit sense mario.
I didn't find it as an ability spam in the least. Again some of the DE's require more balancing so maybe once things have upped in challenge a bit you would play more strategically. I can't say how you approached combat. I can say how I did. I considered every move. By the end if I had chosen a wrong move to use I was dead. I knew when to use heartseeker, flying lotus and, especially, cloak and dagger. I knew when to lay down my utilities and cooked up elaborate plans for luring enemies into traps. For example, as a theif, I was highly mobile. I would roll into combat to avoid any initial strikes, Get a few strikes off, roll out when a hit was emenent. Heartseeker in and use flying lotus immediately after. Allowing me to leap close and then leap over the enemy. From there I'd use my utility to regain my dodge ability and roll out to get space. I'd then use my tripwire utility to trip the enemy and land blows until my intuition got high enough for cloak and dagger. I'd use that move to lower defense and turn invisable. As the searched I would pop out with heartseeker for a crit. That is hardly spamming buttons.
I do appreciate your attack on my unnecessary generalization though. I did generalize only because I have never met someone who experienced it to have the same response as you apparently.
I will admit that I didn't play in the latest beta but in the closed one a few weeks prior, which is what made me not want to buy the game to gain access to the one that you're probably speaking of.
That said, I'm not quite sure what those things you're referring to are. All I can say is I played through the human starter zone, the 15-25 human zone, and the 15-25 snowy/icy zone next to it. During my time there I don't remember anything particularly spectacular, and nothing like the events that you thought were so great.
As for the kill/fetch/collect/etc quests, I never said I was tired of them. I just said that GW2 has basically those exact types of quests, which left me feeling disappointed after all the "revolutonary questing" hype that it built up. The heart quests are particular offenders. You essentially get a kill quest, a collect quest, and a fetch quest squished into one quest when you enter the appriopriate area. You can do any combination of them to finish the quest, true, but since you likely end up doing all three anyway, you might as well be doing three separate quests like in other MMOs. All that does is remove the quest text which at least gave you a background on why you were doing what you're doing. Now I'm just killing rodents and collecting crops for a farmer I don't even know or have ever spoken to.
Also, if you'd read the review up top at all, you'd see that Luke said "Whilst I’d never claim TERA does anything but recycle the tired MMO norm of “kill X rats” or escort quests, neither does Guild Wars 2 once you take away the manner in which they’re delivered to you." So right there is another person who had the same response as me.
And for the combat, I played an elementalist. Maybe thief was more engaging, but all I did as an elementalist was use all my damage abilities in, say, fire attunement, then swtich to electricity and use all of those, then switch to water, etc.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
WHAT?
What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.
To be fair, that's how most people start out playing. That is until they realize that if you stop spamming and time your abilities, you perform better. It takes a bit of practice to realize that certain abilities should be used at certain times.
Perhaps but he said he reached level 25. I'm not sure where or what he was playing as but from my experience button mashing at that level was gaurantee'd death. I came up with that elaborate scheme out of necessity. I HAD to become mobile and use my theifs skills appropriately less I be facing the floor.
Again, its not our place to tell him the experience he had. I just can't understand it though. What I experienced was too different.
As for the kill/fetch/collect/etc quests, I never said I was tired of them.
This sheds some light on why you're unimpressed by DE's. If you don't feel the need for a change, then any change is going to seem unnecessary and unimpressive. IF you're like me, and you want to stick your finger as deep down your throat as you can everytime you see really bad quest grind to purge your body of the experience, then the DE/Heart/Exploration focus is a huge improvement.
And for the combat, I played an elementalist. Maybe thief was more engaging, but all I did as an elementalist was use all my damage abilities in, say, fire attunement, then swtich to electricity and use all of those, then switch to water, etc.
Interesting. I'll try that class next BWE to compare it to thief and guardian.
It seems that all classes have at least some mechanic that stops spamming though. I could burn through all my initiative (energy) as a thief in about 5 seconds and screw myself over if I spammed. Meanwhile, the guardian is limited by large cooldown times, so using the abilities when they are most effective becomes more important since you are going to have a long wait to use it again.
Elementalists should have some mechanic to stop spamming as well, but maybe it's just a poorly designed class.
TERA may have the boring quest grind system in place, but what of the DE's? Are they not merely quest grinding? Won't the same DE get old the 5th time you've done it on the 3rd character you are leveling? I'm not going to base my opinions of a game on something that will be dull in a month anyways. GW2 has no character progression. For people that love spamming battlegrounds / WvWvW I'm sure this is fine, but for people that play MMORPGs for character progression and advancement, GW2 will be a 1 month affair.
I also don't know how people can even begin to compare GW2s combat to TERAs. Run around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off hoping that your latency is better than your enemies (GW2) or strategic aim-based combat where every move you make has benefits / risks associated with it (TERA).
That being said, I play TERA now, and will buy GW2 as well. The DE's will be fun to see once and I'm sure I can hop in PVP from time to time. GW2 will always just be a secondary game though, but with no sub? Who cares.
I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.
There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.
Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.
Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.
You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.
I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.
Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.
I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.
JOIN THE MOVEMENT, STOP USING BETA'S AS DEMOS!
You really shouldn't use that "Anyone who played says it was great" line, because it's not true. I played and got to 25, and I found it pretty uninspiring. Dynamic events really are nothing more than glorified quests. I've done escort quests in other games before. I've had defend the point quests in other games before. I've had clear-out-an-enemy-from-a-base quests before. All of which GW2 takes and presents as dynamic events and expects everyone to drool over them.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
So next time, rethink the whole absolute "Everyone thought it was awesome" statement. It basically disqualifies everything else you say.
I'll concede there. I really meant to assert a majority assessment. Lets find some common ground. So your saying DE's are glorfied quests right? So you would prefer the quest log approach then? If so then we have nothing more to debate really. That would be a fundamental difference in viewpoint that I disagree with. Hated the old quest log christmas tree quest style.
If we can both admit that this way is better than does our debate really even matter? I am truly shocked that you found them "uninspiring" at 25. I can't even begin to fathom what games you have played to make that seem uninspired. Because of that I also won't attempt to understand it. I played it too and I found it completely revolutionary. I could go on about zone wide DE's but sense you've got to 25. You know all about the ice titan and armies of the deep so I won't go into them.
Is there any chance for an MMO with you then? Of course you've done these things before. That's all there is to do in an MMO. What else could you possibly make the game do aside from some form of gathering, killing, escorting, defending, attacking, preventing, etc? I feel your argument is similar to saying "well GoW is nothing new because I've killed things before". All you ever did in GoW was a giant kill quest. Its not what your doing, its how its presented. As gamers we have been killing, escorting, and solving shit sense mario.
I didn't find it as an ability spam in the least. Again some of the DE's require more balancing so maybe once things have upped in challenge a bit you would play more strategically. I can't say how you approached combat. I can say how I did. I considered every move. By the end if I had chosen a wrong move to use I was dead. I knew when to use heartseeker, flying lotus and, especially, cloak and dagger. I knew when to lay down my utilities and cooked up elaborate plans for luring enemies into traps. For example, as a theif, I was highly mobile. I would roll into combat to avoid any initial strikes, Get a few strikes off, roll out when a hit was emenent. Heartseeker in and use flying lotus immediately after. Allowing me to leap close and then leap over the enemy. From there I'd use my utility to regain my dodge ability and roll out to get space. I'd then use my tripwire utility to trip the enemy and land blows until my intuition got high enough for cloak and dagger. I'd use that move to lower defense and turn invisable. As the searched I would pop out with heartseeker for a crit. That is hardly spamming buttons.
I do appreciate your attack on my unnecessary generalization though. I did generalize only because I have never met someone who experienced it to have the same response as you apparently.
I will admit that I didn't play in the latest beta but in the closed one a few weeks prior, which is what made me not want to buy the game to gain access to the one that you're probably speaking of.
That said, I'm not quite sure what those things you're referring to are. All I can say is I played through the human starter zone, the 15-25 human zone, and the 15-25 snowy/icy zone next to it. During my time there I don't remember anything particularly spectacular, and nothing like the events that you thought were so great.
As for the kill/fetch/collect/etc quests, I never said I was tired of them. I just said that GW2 has basically those exact types of quests, which left me feeling disappointed after all the "revolutonary questing" hype that it built up. The heart quests are particular offenders. You essentially get a kill quest, a collect quest, and a fetch quest squished into one quest when you enter the appriopriate area. You can do any combination of them to finish the quest, true, but since you likely end up doing all three anyway, you might as well be doing three separate quests like in other MMOs. All that does is remove the quest text which at least gave you a background on why you were doing what you're doing. Now I'm just killing rodents and collecting crops for a farmer I don't even know or have ever spoken to.
Also, if you'd read the review up top at all, you'd see that Luke said "Whilst I’d never claim TERA does anything but recycle the tired MMO norm of “kill X rats” or escort quests, neither does Guild Wars 2 once you take away the manner in which they’re delivered to you." So right there is another person who had the same response as me.
And for the combat, I played an elementalist. Maybe thief was more engaging, but all I did as an elementalist was use all my damage abilities in, say, fire attunement, then swtich to electricity and use all of those, then switch to water, etc.
By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).
Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.
Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.
That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.
I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though, you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.
I find it interesting that both guys liked combat in Tera. It's the entire reason I quit already. All the classes seemed the exact same to me. The movement factor was interesting but the hold down key to auto-fire got dull pretty quick. I won't say GW2 is better just yet as I had to work most of my first beta weekend and had little play time. But in all other aspects (including price) GW2 seems more fun right now
By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).
Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.
Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.
That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.
I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though, you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.
The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.
I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.
I also don't think Terra's combat is all that different from GW2.. in GW2 (unlike most mmos) the skill will go off whether you are in range or not.. so to that degree there is aiming involved it's just less clumsy than in Terra.. this article is a joke..
Comments
No matter what anyone says, to me DEs triumphs over a better combat any day. I don't care if its simply the delivery of quests that is different in DEs because honestly, I just don't feel that way. To me it truly feels fresh and I can see DEs simply getting better and better in higher level zones.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
TERA is just he overall better game. It beat out Guild Wars 2 in every aspect other then questing which is just not enough to make Guild Wars 2 better. Its not that TERA uses the same old questing method that hurts it but rather the quest them selves could have been better. Dynamic Events are nonthing new to the genre at all and this is the only thing Guild Wars 2 has going for it. TERA totally destroys Guild Wars 2 in Combat, Graphics, PVP, Mob AI and group mechanics. Instanced Zones and instanced pvp as a side mechanic are steps backward not foward. I watched streams of group combat in Guild Wars 2 and everbody is just standing still spamming skills. From one beta weekend people are already saying they did the same event 4-5 times. Thats just 1 weekend of playing the game so how is this going to be when the game releases and people are playing everday? People have already seen everything Guild Wars 2 has to offer already in just 1 weekend. TERA fans are still waiting to see things like the much anticipated Political System, Guild Housing and Dynamic Events which are also comming.
Not saying Guild Wars 2 is a bad game but just because I get a quest from walking into the area instead of having to talk to somebody just does not make the game better. This has already been done before in games like Rift and Warhammer.
Ok I play both games. You need to do more homework before posting things.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Me too, I play both and I agree with Mannish, TERA is better in every aspect than GW2. Maybe YOU need to do more homework.
Now you are hurting our 50 year old generation again by telling lies. In a previous post today you didn't even know what the downed Fight to Survive bar was. Don't tell me you have played both.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Tera is not implementing dynamic events, it is, politely put, "borrowing" rifts from Rift. Heck, they're even called "Dark Rifts" or "Black Cracks".
Appearing Rifts
The Rifts can appear in Argonea, Kargonea and Kanobia Wires. Once a Rift opens, monsters will invade the place. Players have to collaborate by defeating the rampaging monsters and closing the Rifts.
Closing Rifts
Once all phases of the invasion have been stopped, the Rifts will close and players get compensated for completing the corresponding quests.
Everything else aside, which is primarily a matter of personal opinion and taste, to compare these rifts with the hundreds of hours of dynamic events in GW2 is hardly appropriate.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
What do you want? That I show you the purchase receipts? And you have a serious problem with your age, man.
On this front Guild Wars 2 felt similar to every MMO I’ve played in the last decade at the basic gameplay level. It’s more refined in many aspects but it’s not revolutionary by any means.
I was VERY surprised to see this, because my experiences could not have differed by more. I almost thought he was being sarcastic at first, but... he's honest? Weird
For me, the experience of playing with my thief and desperately kiting an entire group of mobs with my bow, throwing out caltraps, teleporting around, dodging, then swapping to my dagger and gun to get a quick kill on a mob, then deseprately trying to get safe again... well, it felt more original and engaging than ANY GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED much less the typical mmo combat system.
TERA, by contrast, felt exactly like every other mmo's base combat mechanics... with action combat? It sounds like I did not get far enough into the game to really appreciate it, and maybe it does get even better than GW2's combat eventually (GW2's group combat mechanics and boss fights are lacking, imo).
Unfortunately, I will never know how good TERA really is, because despite how good the game becomes, it hides everything that is good about it from the player. Many people expect this from MMOs, and so accept that as par for the course.
I loathe those people and the effect they have on gaming more than anyone has ever hated a WoW kiddy for the same reason.
Because of this design philosophy of not trying to make the experience enjoyable until later, TERA has effectively created the single WORST MMORPG GAMING EXPERIENCE I have ever had, and I could not bear to play more than an hour before I quit.
I don't have leisure time to do unfun stuff in order to have fun later. I will never again grind, and I will quit every MMO the second that I feel like that's what I'm doing. For this reason I will never again play TERA, and GW2 is the clear victor.
My age is perfect for the date I was born and I have no problem with that. I'm just calling you out. You lied. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4959648#4959648 In this post you made you had no clue concerning a well known feature of GW2 and yet you say you play both. Enough of this. Act your age and quit trying to be so dramatic when you are defending Tera. It's a video game. I don't like liars.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.
There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.
Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.
Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.
You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.
I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.
Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.
I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.
JOIN THE MOVEMENT, STOP USING BETA'S AS DEMOS!
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
Thats still a Dynamic Event which I stated in my post that games like Rift and Warhammer have these also. Just because Guld Wars 2 has more does not mean its not what it is. Things like these are nonthing new and can always be added to any game as they should be.
You really shouldn't use that "Anyone who played says it was great" line, because it's not true. I played and got to 25, and I found it pretty uninspiring. Dynamic events really are nothing more than glorified quests. I've done escort quests in other games before. I've had defend the point quests in other games before. I've had clear-out-an-enemy-from-a-base quests before. All of which GW2 takes and presents as dynamic events and expects everyone to drool over them.
As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.
So next time, rethink the whole absolute "Everyone thought it was awesome" statement. It basically disqualifies everything else you say.
I'll concede there. I really meant to assert a majority assessment. Lets find some common ground. So your saying DE's are glorfied quests right? So you would prefer the quest log approach then? If so then we have nothing more to debate really. That would be a fundamental difference in viewpoint that I disagree with. Hated the old quest log christmas tree quest style.
If we can both admit that this way is better than does our debate really even matter? I am truly shocked that you found them "uninspiring" at 25. I can't even begin to fathom what games you have played to make that seem uninspired. Because of that I also won't attempt to understand it. I played it too and I found it completely revolutionary. I could go on about zone wide DE's but sense you've got to 25. You know all about the ice titan and armies of the deep so I won't go into them.
Is there any chance for an MMO with you then? Of course you've done these things before. That's all there is to do in an MMO. What else could you possibly make the game do aside from some form of gathering, killing, escorting, defending, attacking, preventing, etc? I feel your argument is similar to saying "well GoW is nothing new because I've killed things before". All you ever did in GoW was a giant kill quest. Its not what your doing, its how its presented. As gamers we have been killing, escorting, and solving shit sense mario.
I didn't find it as an ability spam in the least. Again some of the DE's require more balancing so maybe once things have upped in challenge a bit you would play more strategically. I can't say how you approached combat. I can say how I did. I considered every move. By the end if I had chosen a wrong move to use I was dead. I knew when to use heartseeker, flying lotus and, especially, cloak and dagger. I knew when to lay down my utilities and cooked up elaborate plans for luring enemies into traps. For example, as a theif, I was highly mobile. I would roll into combat to avoid any initial strikes, Get a few strikes off, roll out when a hit was emenent. Heartseeker in and use flying lotus immediately after. Allowing me to leap close and then leap over the enemy. From there I'd use my utility to regain my dodge ability and roll out to get space. I'd then use my tripwire utility to trip the enemy and land blows until my intuition got high enough for cloak and dagger. I'd use that move to lower defense and turn invisable. As the searched I would pop out with heartseeker for a crit. That is hardly spamming buttons.
I do appreciate your attack on my unnecessary generalization though. I did generalize only because I have never met someone who experienced it to have the same response as you apparently.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
WHAT?
What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.
I found experienced the same as you did. I question if he actually did play. Not because of any arrogant "he must have not played to have a different view than mine" logic but because I've been lied to many times and caught many people on this very site lying about playing the beta. It is easy to check.
You ask them their account name and check the beta list. All accounts are on a beta list, that list was on the forum's. It might be harder to find now that they are locked I believe. Still though.
So far I'm up to 5 or 6 people who have said they level capped in beta. 2 of them flat out lied and said they hit level 56. Which was impossable sense the beta capped at 30. one other guy said he leveled in a zone not in GW2. Another said he fought world crusher who was not in the beta. Another said he did a dungeon not available in the Beta. The last one only had a GW account and not a GW2 account which is mandatory to play in the beta.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
To be fair, that's how most people start out playing. That is until they realize that if you stop spamming and time your abilities, you perform better. It takes a bit of practice to realize that certain abilities should be used at certain times.
I will admit that I didn't play in the latest beta but in the closed one a few weeks prior, which is what made me not want to buy the game to gain access to the one that you're probably speaking of.
That said, I'm not quite sure what those things you're referring to are. All I can say is I played through the human starter zone, the 15-25 human zone, and the 15-25 snowy/icy zone next to it. During my time there I don't remember anything particularly spectacular, and nothing like the events that you thought were so great.
As for the kill/fetch/collect/etc quests, I never said I was tired of them. I just said that GW2 has basically those exact types of quests, which left me feeling disappointed after all the "revolutonary questing" hype that it built up. The heart quests are particular offenders. You essentially get a kill quest, a collect quest, and a fetch quest squished into one quest when you enter the appriopriate area. You can do any combination of them to finish the quest, true, but since you likely end up doing all three anyway, you might as well be doing three separate quests like in other MMOs. All that does is remove the quest text which at least gave you a background on why you were doing what you're doing. Now I'm just killing rodents and collecting crops for a farmer I don't even know or have ever spoken to.
Also, if you'd read the review up top at all, you'd see that Luke said "Whilst I’d never claim TERA does anything but recycle the tired MMO norm of “kill X rats” or escort quests, neither does Guild Wars 2 once you take away the manner in which they’re delivered to you." So right there is another person who had the same response as me.
And for the combat, I played an elementalist. Maybe thief was more engaging, but all I did as an elementalist was use all my damage abilities in, say, fire attunement, then swtich to electricity and use all of those, then switch to water, etc.
Perhaps but he said he reached level 25. I'm not sure where or what he was playing as but from my experience button mashing at that level was gaurantee'd death. I came up with that elaborate scheme out of necessity. I HAD to become mobile and use my theifs skills appropriately less I be facing the floor.
Again, its not our place to tell him the experience he had. I just can't understand it though. What I experienced was too different.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
How can you pit a game that hasn't even been released to a game that's been out for a year and just released in the states.
Stupid article, from a less than professional site.
Tera - Start 10 servers.
GW2 - Start 25 servers US and 25 servers EU
Thx.
l2p
By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).
Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.
Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.
That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.
I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though, you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.
http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home
I find it interesting that both guys liked combat in Tera. It's the entire reason I quit already. All the classes seemed the exact same to me. The movement factor was interesting but the hold down key to auto-fire got dull pretty quick. I won't say GW2 is better just yet as I had to work most of my first beta weekend and had little play time. But in all other aspects (including price) GW2 seems more fun right now
The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.
I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.
I also don't think Terra's combat is all that different from GW2.. in GW2 (unlike most mmos) the skill will go off whether you are in range or not.. so to that degree there is aiming involved it's just less clumsy than in Terra.. this article is a joke..