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The hidden Treasure of GW2, Level scaling and the playability with friends.

skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

I feel this Topic isn't brought the attention it deserves.
Looking back at TERA or worse SWTOR i can not cherish enough the joy of finally beeing able to play with various friends together.

While playing for nearly a decade with some guildmates we spend the time leveling in Rift, SWTOR, TERA seperated until max. level.

Our gaminghours do not always overlap, and these games severely punish you for not advancing at the _exact_ same speed always together.

Questchains which are so restrictive that you can't even accept ONE damn quest in the whole zone without the prequests. Facepalm easy scaled contend when you start getting 5 level "above" the Area.
Urgh, these games _forced! us apart.


.
.
.
.
And then GW2.

One of my friends joins a day later. WE did everything together until then. Despite 10 Levels of difference. GW2 isn't just a living breathing world, it's even filled with friends.

Makes me sometimes wonder how the hell other Themepark MMOS got so unfriendly and degenerated in terms of playability with others (friends) outside raids.


Comments

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    ... this reminds me that I wish sidekicking to friend's higher level was still in.  *sigh*

    Oh well.  I managed to convince my friends to hang out in the lower level areas with me for a bit, and then for the rest of the game I just played content 5-6 levels higher and spent a lot of time learning how to play really well. :D  Not nearly as bad as it could have been, but I still would have liked to have the option to hang out in the big boy zones with my friends.

  • PurgatusPurgatus San Diego, CAPosts: 342Member

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    I feel this Topic isn't brought the attention it deserves.

    Looking back at TERA or worse SWTOR i can not cherish enough the joy of finally beeing able to play with various friends together.

    While playing for nearly a decade with some guildmates we spend the time leveling in Rift, SWTOR, TERA seperated until max. level.

    Our gaminghours do not always overlap, and these games severely punish you for not advancing at the _exact_ same speed always together.

    Questchains which are so restrictive that you can't even accept ONE damn quest in the whole zone without the prequests. Facepalm easy scaled contend when you start getting 5 level "above" the Area.

    Urgh, these games _forced! us apart.



    .

    .

    .

    .

    And then GW2.

     

     

    One of my friends joins a day later. WE did everything together until then. Despite 10 Levels of difference. GW2 isn't just a living breathing world, it's even filled with friends.

    Makes me sometimes wonder how the hell other Themepark MMOS got so unfriendly and degenerated in terms of playability with others (friends) outside raids.

     

    This. This has me excited for GW2 more than anything else. I routinely get my friends to try out MMO's and its a replay of the same tragedy over and over. Everyone levels at different rates until we can really play together. Or is some game we can, but we sacrifice ever moving forward with our own characters.

  • SoulOfRazielSoulOfRaziel Porto FerreiraPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    GW2 will be perfect to play with firends/guild

     

    image

  • RoybeRoybe Star, NCPosts: 420Member

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    ... this reminds me that I wish sidekicking to friend's higher level was still in.  *sigh*

    Oh well.  I managed to convince my friends to hang out in the lower level areas with me for a bit, and then for the rest of the game I just played content 5-6 levels higher and spent a lot of time learning how to play really well. :D  Not nearly as bad as it could have been, but I still would have liked to have the option to hang out in the big boy zones with my friends.

    I'm kind of happy that the kick up was removed.  Many people would probably rage quit the game since they would be constantly one shotted and/or left on the edge of the action...since you're armor and skills would not have been allowed to kcik up with you.  If these items did change up, then what would be the incentive to play anywhere else in the game except in thehigher level zones?  I understand the idea of playing with friends, and time being valuable, etc.  The kick up just seemed to be at odds with the rest of the game.

     

  • DeldorDeldor HusumPosts: 51Member Uncommon
    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.
  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member

    Originally posted by Roybe

    I'm kind of happy that the kick up was removed.  Many people would probably rage quit the game since they would be constantly one shotted and/or left on the edge of the action...since you're armor and skills would not have been allowed to kcik up with you.  If these items did change up, then what would be the incentive to play anywhere else in the game except in thehigher level zones?  I understand the idea of playing with friends, and time being valuable, etc.  The kick up just seemed to be at odds with the rest of the game.

     

    ... and you think I was NOT constantly getting one shotted and left on the edge of the action when I'm 5-6 levels below?  :D

    I suffered and persevered.  Oh well.  Some people like the idea of sidekicking up, some don't.  I personally love it, but whatever, I'll just deal.  At least everything else is left in. :/

  • AsalzSyAsalzSy ChitungwizaPosts: 224Member
    The guild system is also epic..i plan to join 1 guild per day & meet new ppls evry day..
  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member

    The Overflow issue has been heard by Anet.
    But still you can get together at the end and keep playing, no questgrinding or stopping to "wait".

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    While playing for nearly a decade with some guildmates we spend the time leveling in Rift, SWTOR, TERA seperated until max. level.

    other games have offered this -- City of Heroes with Sidekicking, Everquest 2 with mentoring

    but yes, I wish more games offered this feature

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    While only slightly related, another huge benefit of this that deserves some attention: It means later expansions/content additions aren't nearly as limited by level range as what previous games had to deal with.

    They can introduce a level 20 dungeon, and it can be experienced by level 20's, 35s, 48s, 67s, 80s, and anything/everything in between, and they still gain appropriate exp and loot, and still have an appropriate challenge- with players of many levels as well.

    Games have been so limited by this that what we saw was either content tacked on for newly released levels (80-85 only, for example), or newbie areas that served no purpose for higher level players.

    The value of this is something I'd overlooked at first, but when it really sunk in I was very impressed and very excited about the future and the role this can play.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common

    I agree with the OP, but for other reasons.  One of my MMO pet peeves is out leveling my quests. This happens to me a lot becasue I like to pvp. Once I out outlevel the quests/missions they no longer give me any experience, so I have to kill mobs and finish the quests for nothing, or abandon them and risk messing up a quest chain.

     

    Also, I like some areas better than others. In GW2 I'm not forced to leave areas before I want to, nor do I have to stay in a zone I don't like just because it's the zone with quests and mobs at my level.

  • NaeviusNaevius Houston, TXPosts: 334Member Uncommon

    It was nice to go back to levl 5 areas as a level 15 and still find it  (almost) as tough as it was the first time.

    So endgame is - play the whole world, not just some final zones or raids.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by skydiver12

    While playing for nearly a decade with some guildmates we spend the time leveling in Rift, SWTOR, TERA seperated until max. level.

    other games have offered this -- City of Heroes with Sidekicking, Everquest 2 with mentoring

    but yes, I wish more games offered this feature

    City of Heroes did a lot of interesting things and Sidekicking is one of those things I think many games should have.  I thought when EQ2 added it we would see more games doing it but alas we didn't get that.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member

    Originally posted by Deldor

    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.

     

    This was my biggest issue with the BWE.  My partner and I got to play together all of 15 minutes in Divinity's Reach the ENTIRE weekend.  I was a bit unhappy about that.  I hope they fix it, because our whole POINT in buying this game was to have a game to play together again.  It's been a long time.  SO hoping they fix this.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,777Member Uncommon
    I have stated this before but I feel it come be said again. I'm retired, a huge mmorpg nut, and my sons that work love playing grouped with me. Being home all day I have plenty of time to play but must play slowly so I don't get to far ahead. In fact, I have had to play 2 - 3 alt games just to stay leveled with them. GW2 is meant for people with these kinds of situations. I can hardly wonder the adventuring we will share! 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • UnlightUnlight Ottawa, ONPosts: 2,540Member

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Deldor

    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.

     

    This was my biggest issue with the BWE.  My partner and I got to play together all of 15 minutes in Divinity's Reach the ENTIRE weekend.  I was a bit unhappy about that.  I hope they fix it, because our whole POINT in buying this game was to have a game to play together again.  It's been a long time.  SO hoping they fix this.

    No worries.  It's NOT working as intended.  Groups are meant to stay together.  You were just getting trolled by the beta monster.

    By the way, I spent most of my time in the overflow server and didn't even bother going to the live(?) server when it was offered.  There was just no need.  Wouldn't anyone who made it on to the live one mostly likely get shunted to the overflow the next time they entered the zone?  I haven't tried it but if this recurrs for the next BWE, just choose to stay on the overflow.  If you or your partner get separated, the one who made it to live should just rezone.  Then you can both stay on overflow.  And believe me, there is no difference between them.  Mine was packed consistently at all hours.


  • Originally posted by Unlight

    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Deldor

    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.

     

    This was my biggest issue with the BWE.  My partner and I got to play together all of 15 minutes in Divinity's Reach the ENTIRE weekend.  I was a bit unhappy about that.  I hope they fix it, because our whole POINT in buying this game was to have a game to play together again.  It's been a long time.  SO hoping they fix this.

    No worries.  It's NOT working as intended.  Groups are meant to stay together.  You were just getting trolled by the beta monster.

    By the way, I spent most of my time in the overflow server and didn't even bother going to the live(?) server when it was offered.  There was just no need.  Wouldn't anyone who made it on to the live one mostly likely get shunted to the overflow the next time they entered the zone?  I haven't tried it but if this recurrs for the next BWE, just choose to stay on the overflow.  If you or your partner get separated, the one who made it to live should just rezone.  Then you can both stay on overflow.  And believe me, there is no difference between them.  Mine was packed consistently at all hours.

    Overflow Servers

    It was a bit more complicated than just one overflow server.  Me and hubby got split off into different overflow servers - really made us cranky on Friday but by Saturday we were resigned to it and by Sunday we actually managed to meet up by accident.  Read something on the official forums by a dev that it will be fixed by launch if not sooner.

    Downlevelling

    I love downleveling - we have a friend who must stop and smell every rose, stomp on every spider, get every title in the games she plays.  Problem is she must finish an area before moving on - super completionist who will only play maybe at most 4-6 hours a week, usually around 2-3.  We have so much fun when we group up that we basically just have alts that we keep locked to her level.  Will be nice to be playing the character I want when playing with her.

    Then we have our kids - who outlevel us in just a few days.  But we enjoy grouping up with them as we all live in different states and it brings back family game nights for us.  Can't wait for the day I rez them in a newbie zone:)  Sheesh does that make me evil?

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Appreciate scaling becoming more common, but it is more work for the devs (has to be built into the combat math pretty much from day one).  Retrofitting an older system would be something of a developer's terror dream.

    The advantages extend to much more than sidekicking; boss scaling, the loot system, all sorts of things.

     

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • vesuviasvesuvias No Where, WAPosts: 147Member

    Actually this is the one thing that I think is the real game changer for this industry. And its not just these few parts you have mentioned its the whole philosophy "all of US" vs the Environment or "All of Us" Vs another server. All these mechanics fostered by previous MMOs that servered to divide us are purposely snuffed out by Anet. For Anet it is Community > All. Even Mechanics.

     

    The impact of this type of community building is really hard to predict. If there is one thing I think will rocket GW2 to popularity its this philosophy. We won't really begin to see how prevassive it is until a few months after. Now granted it could backfire in terms of "everyone is now your friend so no one is". But I doubt it. My gut feel is its one of those things that will simply intensify the viral impact of this game. They truely eliminated most of the barriers to entry.

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    While not ideal, and hopefully by release we don't have to jump through hoops to play together, my wife and I found a few solutions to the overflow system problem of being seperated. It might be helpful should we still have problems with this on the next BWE.

    1.) (And this was the best option) We'd zone back into the main city of an area, group up if we weren't already, zone out and select queue for the non overflow zone. Not once did we wait more than a minute all weekend to be playing together. Maybe the wait will become longer, but I don't see servers being more full than they were.

    I'm guessing like us, many people assumed queueing would be a long and horrible wait, and so selected the overflow server instead. But, as I said above, it never took more than a minute or two.

    2.) Until we'd found the above solution, we found that running back and forth through a portal eventually ported you to the main instance (rather than the overflow), if we ignored the pop up box and just continually ran back and forth to trigger it. Usually within a minute we were together in the next zone. I'm pretty sure this was the same as queueing for the non-overflow server, but that's just a guess. The down side is you look like an idiot for a minute or two. 

    3.) This was the least desirable, but what we'd initially done (as most probably did) until we'd discovered the above. If we'd zoned through to find ourselves in different instances, one of us would just continually zone out and in until we saw eachother. This usually took the longest and was the most annoying.

    I'm guessing they'll have this whole system more ironed out by next BWE, but I'm not sure it'll really be put to proper testing *until* a BWE, as I'd imagine their continual testing load isn't filling the servers with quite as many people.

  • Netgamer7kNetgamer7k Bakersfield, CAPosts: 62Member

    Originally posted by Deldor

    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.

    Well for one thing it was a beta weekend event, so it was certainly crowded across all realms. And also, the overflow is zone-only. So, most likely you'll be dealing with that problem in the starting zones. I doubt the level 15+ areas will have overflow when the game finally launches.

    image

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Deldor

    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.

    You caould choosed to do what you do in every other beta:wait in line. Here you can play while you wait instead of just staring at the screen.

    Overflow servers are still better than the only really possible alternative.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by skydiver12



    While playing for nearly a decade with some guildmates we spend the time leveling in Rift, SWTOR, TERA seperated until max. level.

    other games have offered this -- City of Heroes with Sidekicking, Everquest 2 with mentoring

    but yes, I wish more games offered this feature

    There is a completely different feel to the GW2 system vs. active side-kicking seen in a few other titles. By the game supporting auto scaling down of your level, for lower level content, you never outlevel anything. Rewards are also based on your true level, rather than the content level, so you aren't sacrificing fun, challenge or rewards by joining up with a lower level friend for lower level content.

    Games that offered side-kicking up tended to rob the lower level player of much of the natural game experience. It put them out of sync with the natural progression of the game and often left them with a quest log full of content that was grayed out and irrelavent after an extended period of time spent as a side-kick to a higher level friend.

    The GW2 system is so seemless. It's just a beautiful system that is greatly enhanced by the way it interacts with the many other unique elements of GW2 game design.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Roybe

    Originally posted by Meowhead

    ... this reminds me that I wish sidekicking to friend's higher level was still in.  *sigh*

    Oh well.  I managed to convince my friends to hang out in the lower level areas with me for a bit, and then for the rest of the game I just played content 5-6 levels higher and spent a lot of time learning how to play really well. :D  Not nearly as bad as it could have been, but I still would have liked to have the option to hang out in the big boy zones with my friends.

    I'm kind of happy that the kick up was removed.  Many people would probably rage quit the game since they would be constantly one shotted and/or left on the edge of the action...since you're armor and skills would not have been allowed to kcik up with you.  If these items did change up, then what would be the incentive to play anywhere else in the game except in thehigher level zones?  I understand the idea of playing with friends, and time being valuable, etc.  The kick up just seemed to be at odds with the rest of the game.

     

    Just my oppinion here, but I don't think the reason for removing it is people playing only in the highest level zones. Isn't the appeal here that, even tho you might reach max level, you can still go do lower level stuff just for the fun of it, experiencing new DEs you might have missed? So even with upscaling, I belive people would have still been interested in all the zones. The reason it was removed is, if you could upscale, no one would have ever bought XP boosts, because they could go anywhere. Now people that are impacient, want to see higher level stuff faster, feel the need to get to 80 asap, might be more inclined to buy that boost from the CS. They needed to creat at least some demand for that product, even if leveling to max level here is not as important as in other games.(I know it drops in game to etc.)

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Deldor

    A big problem with this in this beta weekend was with the overflow servers. You can't pick on which server you are redirected and if your friend gets on a different server, you can't play together.

    They're aware of this and are full ahead on the problem to fix it for next BWE, atleast they said something to that line on the official forums.

    Currently playing: -

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