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"its only beta"

bishboshbishbosh Member Posts: 388
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
i see this phrase thrown around far too much. critisize a game in beta and you are bound to here this one. you guys do realise the point of beta is report bugs and lag and imbalance and other issues.....  why are you so intent on telling fellow beta testers to shutup about problems or things they dont like, i mean they are just doing there job unlike you. whats extra saddening is that mmorpg.com (a mmorpg journo site) is guilty of this.
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Comments

  • jairusjairus Member UncommonPosts: 175
    becuase there is always a miracle patch thats going to make everything better just befor launch.
  • VeshiVeshi Member UncommonPosts: 32
    To be critical of a game is fine, its part of beta testing, you need to let the developers know of any bugs or problems you find in game. I think what alot of people find anoying are the "This game sucks, it looks crapy, loads of lag and its not as good as X game" posts. These posts help in no way as often there sole reason is to bash a game not provide any kind of help. If you dont like something, try sujesting an alternitve or way of fixing. Loud mouth bashing of a game just because of the fear said game may be better that your own brand of online fun helps no one, donsnt help the game being tested and makes said person look like nothing but a troll, even if there point is valid.

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  • JC-SmithJC-Smith Member UncommonPosts: 421

    It's overdone these days. There are times when it makes sense. If a game is months from launch, there is still time to fix things. You should post your concerns (respectfully) and give your opinions. They are helpful to developers.

    I think where it's overdone though is when games hit open beta, and have a month left until launch and people keep throwing it out. You saw it in TOR's final beta weekend, right before it launched. At that point, the game is how it is going to be at launch. There isn't time to fix any major flaws and properly test them. At that point it just becomes a cop out.

    https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.

  • wrightstufwrightstuf Member UncommonPosts: 659

    Originally posted by bishbosh

    i see this phrase thrown around far too much. critisize a game in beta and you are bound to here this one. you guys do realise the point of beta is report bugs and lag and imbalance and other issues.....  why are you so intent on telling fellow beta testers to shutup about problems or things they dont like, i mean they are just doing there job unlike you. whats extra saddening is that mmorpg.com (a mmorpg journo site) is guilty of this.

    prob is tho, that its the usual reply to some whiner that's complaining unrealistically....now you can hardly call that beta testing, right?

  • bishboshbishbosh Member Posts: 388

    Originally posted by Veshi

    To be critical of a game is fine, its part of beta testing, you need to let the developers know of any bugs or problems you find in game. I think what alot of people find anoying are the "This game sucks, it looks crapy, loads of lag and its not as good as X game" posts. These posts help in no way as often there sole reason is to bash a game not provide any kind of help. If you dont like something, try sujesting an alternitve or way of fixing. Loud mouth bashing of a game just because of the fear said game may be better that your own brand of online fun helps no one, donsnt help the game being tested and makes said person look like nothing but a troll, even if there point is valid.

     


    Originally posted by wrightstuf

    prob is tho, that its the usual reply to some whiner that's complaining unrealistically....now you can hardly call that beta testing, right?

    whats wrong with "loads of lag" when in fact there is loads of lag. isnt it important that devs know this?

    same applies to "it looks crappy". i dont see developers getting mad over this sort of feedback, i dont see why players should.

    all feedback i s good feedback even if it is something subjective leg. "it looks crappy". if 90% of the beta testers are saying "it looks crappy" maybe the devs need to think about improving how the game looks... there is no way you can know what % of people feel this way if you keep telling them to shutup.

    you could go as far as to say "this game sucks" is valid feedback. if a large majority of players are saying this, maybe its best to figure what is wrong with the game and try to fix it...

  • IchmenIchmen Member UncommonPosts: 1,228

    first people need to learn how to spot an actual beta, and how to spot a marketing beta.... both are vastly different... 

    a real beta, the devs actually post things they want tested they ask for players views on changes before saying the change is 100% in final build..

    marketing beta, they make you sign up or spam links to people to join.. and basicly say "go nuts" aka play the game not test.. 

     

    a good example.. is stuff like the GW2 beta going on, that is more of a marketing beta and not a beta test.. as you arent really testing its just boosting popularity for it..  may as well call it a demo.. 

     

    while people love to throw out the "its beta" alot of the time its BS.. once a game enters "gold" status its not a beta.  sure MMOs are nothing like single player games.. in thatthey are always having new content and patches... its safe to assume the minute they start charging money.. or the patches take long periods of time to come about.. its not a beta. 

    games try to sucker people in to thinking they are betas when they arent.  i can throw a beta tag on WoW ... but does that make it a beta?? nope... even if it keeps getting patches its a "gold" game.  GW2 is pretty much "gold" now as well.  

     

    you see beta used alot for games that are f2p or on facebook alot.. doesnt make them betas...  people use it way to much to cover up for game failings... rather sad

  • VeshiVeshi Member UncommonPosts: 32

    Instead of it looks crapy, try i found such and such needed more work to it, instead of its laggy try telling them what set up your using and internet conection. My point was about using inflamatory wording to get a point accross. It comes across as trolling to spout out this kind of "input". Most people that use this kind of wording are not trying to help, there trying to get people riled up for fun.

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  • wrightstufwrightstuf Member UncommonPosts: 659

    Originally posted by bishbosh

    Originally posted by Veshi

    To be critical of a game is fine, its part of beta testing, you need to let the developers know of any bugs or problems you find in game. I think what alot of people find anoying are the "This game sucks, it looks crapy, loads of lag and its not as good as X game" posts. These posts help in no way as often there sole reason is to bash a game not provide any kind of help. If you dont like something, try sujesting an alternitve or way of fixing. Loud mouth bashing of a game just because of the fear said game may be better that your own brand of online fun helps no one, donsnt help the game being tested and makes said person look like nothing but a troll, even if there point is valid.

     


    Originally posted by wrightstuf

    prob is tho, that its the usual reply to some whiner that's complaining unrealistically....now you can hardly call that beta testing, right?

    whats wrong with "loads of lag" when in fact there is loads of lag. isnt it important that devs know this?

    same applies to "it looks crappy". i dont see developers getting mad over this sort of feedback, i dont see why players should.

    all feedback i s good feedback even if it is something subjective leg. "it looks crappy". if 90% of the beta testers are saying "it looks crappy" maybe the devs need to think about improving how the game looks... there is no way you can know what % of people feel this way if you keep telling them to shutup.

    you could go as far as to say "this game sucks" is valid feedback. if a large majority of players are saying this, maybe its best to figure what is wrong with the game and try to fix it...

    all of what you say would be valid if that "feedback" was directed at the devs...prob is tho, its not. its voiced in chat ingame and on forums...if everyone that had issue with a game in beta, took their issue to the devs, then their would never be a reason to say..."its only beta"

  • bishboshbishbosh Member Posts: 388

    Originally posted by wrightstuf

    Originally posted by bishbosh

    Originally posted by Veshi

    To be critical of a game is fine, its part of beta testing, you need to let the developers know of any bugs or problems you find in game. I think what alot of people find anoying are the "This game sucks, it looks crapy, loads of lag and its not as good as X game" posts. These posts help in no way as often there sole reason is to bash a game not provide any kind of help. If you dont like something, try sujesting an alternitve or way of fixing. Loud mouth bashing of a game just because of the fear said game may be better that your own brand of online fun helps no one, donsnt help the game being tested and makes said person look like nothing but a troll, even if there point is valid.

     


    Originally posted by wrightstuf

    prob is tho, that its the usual reply to some whiner that's complaining unrealistically....now you can hardly call that beta testing, right?

    whats wrong with "loads of lag" when in fact there is loads of lag. isnt it important that devs know this?

    same applies to "it looks crappy". i dont see developers getting mad over this sort of feedback, i dont see why players should.

    all feedback i s good feedback even if it is something subjective leg. "it looks crappy". if 90% of the beta testers are saying "it looks crappy" maybe the devs need to think about improving how the game looks... there is no way you can know what % of people feel this way if you keep telling them to shutup.

    you could go as far as to say "this game sucks" is valid feedback. if a large majority of players are saying this, maybe its best to figure what is wrong with the game and try to fix it...

    all of what you say would be valid if that "feedback" was directed at the devs...prob is tho, its not. its voiced in chat ingame and on forums...if everyone that had issue with a game in beta, took their issue to the devs, then their would never be a reason to say..."its only beta"

    i imagine that one of the purposes of game forums is to provide feedack

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Member Posts: 450
    Are you talking about people telling other people that the game is in beta on beta forums? That I wouldn't understand, because the developers and everybody else should see it as feedback. However, if a person was trying to convince somebody about something about the game on some other forum as if it were a review of a finished product then I think it is understandable for somebody to announce that it is a game in beta.
  • DIR3W0LFDIR3W0LF Member UncommonPosts: 64

    Originally posted by Veshi

    To be critical of a game is fine, its part of beta testing, you need to let the developers know of any bugs or problems you find in game. I think what alot of people find anoying are the "This game sucks, it looks crapy, loads of lag and its not as good as X game" posts. These posts help in no way as often there sole reason is to bash a game not provide any kind of help. If you dont like something, try sujesting an alternitve or way of fixing. Loud mouth bashing of a game just because of the fear said game may be better that your own brand of online fun helps no one, donsnt help the game being tested and makes said person look like nothing but a troll, even if there point is valid.

    You got it right! 100% my opinion about it too

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  • comrademariocomrademario Member Posts: 98

    I think beta in general, or in theory at least, is a good thing. Having players test the content for errors, bugs or random annoyances before opening the doors to the mass public is a great idea. I'm not so sure getting people to pay for beta keys (unless you're an indie company that are up front about needing some extra marketing cash) is so great though.

     

    The second problem is companies that release games that are nowhere near complete and just say they'll release a patch in a few weeks/months. I'll give you an example. Every year Football Manager releases a new edition around about November for about 60 bucks. Every year the game is practically unplayable til patch 2 or 3 in March. This could be the game being too easy, the old 'last 10 minutes comeback' glitch or any number of things.

     

    So I stopped buying til about March when I hear the bugs are fixed, most seem to not care though, which is the weirder thing and has led Sports Interactive to become very lazy about getting a polished game on the market at launch (in my opinion)

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699

    Originally posted by jairus

    becuase there is always a miracle patch thats going to make everything better just befor launch.

    Yup.  It almost makes it a brand new game!

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • AbdullaDooAbdullaDoo Member Posts: 60

    Originally posted by Veshi

    If you dont like something, try sujesting an alternitve or way of fixing.

     

    This is the proper way to go about things IMO, but "fanboy culture" has also fostered an astmosphere where even reasonable objections and suggestions are counter-attacked for being perceived as blind attacks on a game by haters.

     

    Many people claim they welcome "constructive criticism" but it's often just a buzz phrase devoid of any meaning -- most have never encountered a piece of criticism about a beloved game they would ever recognize as being constructive.  When you're in a position where you're defending a game at all costs, the tendency is reject the notion that any flaws have any serious impact on the game.

     

    In any case, log-in and latency problems in a beta are a legitimate concern going forward, and a responsible developer should acknowledge them and lay out a plan for addressing those problems.  Betas are meant to identify and fix exactly that type of thing, but only if the complaints are taken seriously.  Even in the case of GW2, for every person bringing up the problems they had in the beta, there seems to be somebody somewhere who feels the need to defend the game with a "Well, I had no problems at all.  Either it's your connection/computer or you're a trolling TOR/WoW fanboy." 

     

    Because developers often do a bad job communicating, it's not clear which side they are paying attention to, and that makes people who believe they have a legitimate point collectively raise their voice to try to get the devs' attention, often becoming seemingly obnoxious in the process despite otherwise decent intentions.

  • AionValkyrieAionValkyrie Member Posts: 1

    Originally posted by Ichmen

    first people need to learn how to spot an actual beta, and how to spot a marketing beta.... both are vastly different... 

    a real beta, the devs actually post things they want tested they ask for players views on changes before saying the change is 100% in final build..

    marketing beta, they make you sign up or spam links to people to join.. and basicly say "go nuts" aka play the game not test.. 

     

    a good example.. is stuff like the GW2 beta going on, that is more of a marketing beta and not a beta test.. as you arent really testing its just boosting popularity for it..  may as well call it a demo.. 

     

    while people love to throw out the "its beta" alot of the time its BS.. once a game enters "gold" status its not a beta.  sure MMOs are nothing like single player games.. in thatthey are always having new content and patches... its safe to assume the minute they start charging money.. or the patches take long periods of time to come about.. its not a beta. 

    games try to sucker people in to thinking they are betas when they arent.  i can throw a beta tag on WoW ... but does that make it a beta?? nope... even if it keeps getting patches its a "gold" game.  GW2 is pretty much "gold" now as well.  

     

    you see beta used alot for games that are f2p or on facebook alot.. doesnt make them betas...  people use it way to much to cover up for game failings... rather sad

    Uh, GW2 BWE is a REAL BETA.   There were surveys asking you about difficulty/rewards/story/mechanics after almost every story instance/major event.   Servers were tuned for lag after the fiasco on Friday.   Devs promised to address issues with melee/ranged balance as well as the difficulty of various mobs/events.   There were a decent amount of bugs/issues posted in the beta forums, with devs addressing a majority of them. 

    Not to mention a lot of armors are still using placeholders, 2 races are missing, and there IS NO LAUNCH DATE.   Plus, you had to buy the game to be in the BWE, so it's definitely not a marketing event as who are they marketing to?   People who already bought the game full price?  

  • bishboshbishbosh Member Posts: 388

    Originally posted by AionValkyrie

    Originally posted by Ichmen

    first people need to learn how to spot an actual beta, and how to spot a marketing beta.... both are vastly different... 

    a real beta, the devs actually post things they want tested they ask for players views on changes before saying the change is 100% in final build..

    marketing beta, they make you sign up or spam links to people to join.. and basicly say "go nuts" aka play the game not test.. 

     

    a good example.. is stuff like the GW2 beta going on, that is more of a marketing beta and not a beta test.. as you arent really testing its just boosting popularity for it..  may as well call it a demo.. 

     

    while people love to throw out the "its beta" alot of the time its BS.. once a game enters "gold" status its not a beta.  sure MMOs are nothing like single player games.. in thatthey are always having new content and patches... its safe to assume the minute they start charging money.. or the patches take long periods of time to come about.. its not a beta. 

    games try to sucker people in to thinking they are betas when they arent.  i can throw a beta tag on WoW ... but does that make it a beta?? nope... even if it keeps getting patches its a "gold" game.  GW2 is pretty much "gold" now as well.  

     

    you see beta used alot for games that are f2p or on facebook alot.. doesnt make them betas...  people use it way to much to cover up for game failings... rather sad

    Uh, GW2 BWE is a REAL BETA.   There were surveys asking you about difficulty/rewards/story/mechanics after almost every story instance/major event.   Servers were tuned for lag after the fiasco on Friday.   Devs promised to address issues with melee/ranged balance as well as the difficulty of various mobs/events.   There were a decent amount of bugs/issues posted in the beta forums, with devs addressing a majority of them. 

    Not to mention a lot of armors are still using placeholders, 2 races are missing, and there IS NO LAUNCH DATE.   Plus, you had to buy the game to be in the BWE, so it's definitely not a marketing event as who are they marketing to?   People who already bought the game full price?  

    im sorry but "beta weekends" are not proper betas. at most it is just a server stress test. a proper beta is like what is happening with DoTA 2 or archeage. they last for a long time so changes can be actually be made.

    the fact that you can pay to get it suggests its not a real beta, its just another pre purchase incentive. it is a marketing event, its just an expensive one. arena net/ NC soft are aware of the hype gw2 is generated and they are using it to sell a game which people have not yet played or heard player opinions about due to NDA. this is clever but despicable marketing and looks like you have been fooled like many others.

    devs respond to questions and "address issues" in fake betas as well. they can only make small changes-- take note of this-- because their fake beta is very short and close to release so any large changes cannot be tested or even implemented.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    Originally posted by bishbosh

    i see this phrase thrown around far too much. critisize a game in beta and you are bound to here this one. you guys do realise the point of beta is report bugs and lag and imbalance and other issues.....  why are you so intent on telling fellow beta testers to shutup about problems or things they dont like, i mean they are just doing there job unlike you. whats extra saddening is that mmorpg.com (a mmorpg journo site) is guilty of this.

    Well to be fair, when that stuff is reported to developers (and not players) you never hear "its only beta".

    But I do agree that it's pretty dumb for players to jump to a game's defense with such a flimsy excuse.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387

    in before, Miracle Patch, which never will come...

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    Reporting issues in a beta is one thing, bitching about them incessantly to anyone in earshot is another.  Too often what we hear is the latter, to which the proper response is: "STFU its beta".

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    in before, Miracle Patch, which never will come...

    I'm going to hold off till next BWE before I start the prophecy of doom stuff.

    My theme song.

    image
  • frispfrisp Member UncommonPosts: 30

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Reporting issues in a beta is one thing, bitching about them incessantly to anyone in earshot is another.  Too often what we hear is the latter, to which the proper response is: "STFU its beta".

    Well said, and, to expand a little.

    Proper BETA (a long time ago it seems to me :P )- testing for bugs, steps to reproduce said bug, report to developer all info - normally done to a test schedule, etc.

    These days - BETA = a chance to race through content, ignore all and any bugs & bitch like Hell over forums later......PROPER Beta testing is a complete pain to do tbh and doesn't seem to exist anymore :( - this is after multi closed betas and countless hours testing a SINGLE game mechanic

     

    (Beta testing games for 20+ years :P )

    regards

    frisp

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387

    Originally posted by Unlight

    Reporting issues in a beta is one thing, bitching about them incessantly to anyone in earshot is another.  Too often what we hear is the latter, to which the proper response is: "STFU its beta".

    examples please

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • SinsaiSinsai Member UncommonPosts: 405

    It's a funny statement..

     

    Fanboys will use it til the last day of OPEN beta..less then a week from actual release, as if a miracle patch is just waiting to be there on release day.

     

    BUT....

     

    Haters will attack the phrase from first day of ALPHA...all the way through EVERY beta stage...til release, even when changes are made to address their concerns, ...they always come up with another concept/mechanic to hate/complain about and when addressed , they find another concept/mechanic they dislilke to champion their "doom and gloom" posts.

     

    SO?

     

    So the thread is pointless really, haters will ALWAYS hate and fanboys will ALWAYS defend ,even if it's pointless.

  • rounnerrounner Member UncommonPosts: 725

    People use this forum to give their opinions about a game. Some of the same old crap already in this thread:

     

    Use the official forums to report - gtfo, I'll use this forum to post my opinion with as much entitlement as you.

    Game is what it is your complaints are unrealistic - gtfo, I'll bat for my demographic as much I see fit with as much entitlement as you.

    Your complaints are too generalistic to give info - gtfo, I'm not wasting time trying to jump through your hoops, a detailed complaint is for devs, an executive summary is for here.

    This post is a troll - gtfo, I care about the opinions about others and wont put up with crap, this includes threats of bans because you want to present a rational and strong argument as trolling.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387

    Originally posted by Xzen

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    in before, Miracle Patch, which never will come...

    I'm going to hold off till next BWE before I start the prophecy of doom stuff.

    You only waiting to the next beta weekend?

     

    Most people on this site wait until after Lauch screaming about some Miracle Patch that suppose to come in a fix all problems...

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

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