No gear grind - #1 selling point for a true pvpr. Plus alts.... dont have to grind to get them competitve.
true pvpers are anti gear grind?
News to me...
Actually yes True Pvpers are skill based players not gear grind players. Big difference in using skill to win and players that rely on gear to compete at all.
I think the game will get kinda boring after I've had my fill of the mists. Going after cosmetic gear doesn't sound that interesting. There doesn't seem to be any sense of long term goals.
IMO, games need some sort of grind at max lvl to keep players hooked. Guess it doesn't matter much as far as making money goes for ANet since there's no sub cost, but I'd like to have some long term goals to go after in the game.
Better gear doesn't even have to be all that much better but at least something would be nice.
I really don't care about having better gear than the next guy, I just want something to entice me to play besides just for the fleeting fun of it.
If you want a true, classic gear grinding experience with raid tiers and all that jazz, GW2 isn't the game for you. I'm not sure why people are bothered by the fact that GW2 is the game that it is, rather than the game that they want it to be.
There are plenty of other choices for gear grinds.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I don't necessarily like gear grind but I do expect to have better gear the higher level I go. Here is why: a skilled player will always beat me at pvp. I know that both my sons are going to pawn me in pvp no matter how good I get unless I have something to make up for the difference in skill. That difference is gear.
The mantra that "the skilled player should always win" sounds good to the young and skilled but for other audiences it will fall flat. First, people like me who are not skilled will become discouraged. We can't beat skilled players no matter what we do - why keep playing? Second, the medium skill people will be disappointed for, as time goes on, the really skillful will dominate everything. How long would you stay with a game when you always get beaten?
I know that for many pvpers this is exactly what they are looking for. I don't think that it will be long term good for GW2 - it will end up like GW1. Worse case scenario is that the game will end up like DAOC, Aion and Darkfall - good pvp games but not wildly popular.
In spite of what I said above I did enjoy the GW2 beta and look forward to playing the game upon release. There is so much else other than pvp that is fun.
No gear grind - #1 selling point for a true pvpr. Plus alts.... dont have to grind to get them competitve.
true pvpers are anti gear grind?
News to me...
Actually yes True Pvpers are skill based players not gear grind players. Big difference in using skill to win and players that rely on gear to compete at all.
Those people that think they're hardcore and have had gear prop them up over the years with WoW, are in for a shock against the old school pvp'ers from UO/AC 1/Dark Age of Camelot....
I don't necessarily like gear grind but I do expect to have better gear the higher level I go. Here is why: a skilled player will always beat me at pvp. I know that both my sons are going to pawn me in pvp no matter how good I get unless I have something to make up for the difference in skill. That difference is gear.
The mantra that "the skilled player should always win" sounds good to the young and skilled but for other audiences it will fall flat. First, people like me who are not skilled will become discouraged. We can't beat skilled players no matter what we do - why keep playing? Second, the medium skill people will be disappointed for, as time goes on, the really skillful will dominate everything. How long would you stay with a game when you always get beaten?
I know that for many pvpers this is exactly what they are looking for. I don't think that it will be long term good for GW2 - it will end up like GW1. Worse case scenario is that the game will end up like DAOC, Aion and Darkfall - good pvp games but not wildly popular.
In spite of what I said above I did enjoy the GW2 beta and look forward to playing the game upon release. There is so much else other than pvp that is fun.
That's why something like WvW exists. You don't need to be the most skilled player to have an impact. In fact, a brash or reckless skilled PvP'er might be less useful than someone who simply focuses on teamwork, objectives and doing what needs doing.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
I don't necessarily like gear grind but I do expect to have better gear the higher level I go. Here is why: a skilled player will always beat me at pvp. I know that both my sons are going to pawn me in pvp no matter how good I get unless I have something to make up for the difference in skill. That difference is gear.
The mantra that "the skilled player should always win" sounds good to the young and skilled but for other audiences it will fall flat. First, people like me who are not skilled will become discouraged. We can't beat skilled players no matter what we do - why keep playing? Second, the medium skill people will be disappointed for, as time goes on, the really skillful will dominate everything. How long would you stay with a game when you always get beaten?
I know that for many pvpers this is exactly what they are looking for. I don't think that it will be long term good for GW2 - it will end up like GW1. Worse case scenario is that the game will end up like DAOC, Aion and Darkfall - good pvp games but not wildly popular.
In spite of what I said above I did enjoy the GW2 beta and look forward to playing the game upon release. There is so much else other than pvp that is fun.
That's why something like WvW exists. You don't need to be the most skilled player to have an impact. In fact, a brash or reckless skilled PvP'er might be less useful than someone who simply focuses on teamwork, objectives and doing what needs doing.
^ This.
You might not be the best PvPer, hell I know that I'm not, but if you stay with a team as you roam around WvW, and figure out how to use your abilities to compliment and/or support theirs, you can still have a lot of fun. And other things, like helping to complete the PvE objectives in WvWvW, or keep defense, don't require a lot of skill per se, but does require people knowing what to do and how to best support their server/team's efforts.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I think the game will get kinda boring after I've had my fill of the mists. Going after cosmetic gear doesn't sound that interesting. There doesn't seem to be any sense of long term goals.
IMO, games need some sort of grind at max lvl to keep players hooked. Guess it doesn't matter much as far as making money goes for ANet since there's no sub cost, but I'd like to have some long term goals to go after in the game.
Better gear doesn't even have to be all that much better but at least something would be nice.
I really don't care about having better gear than the next guy, I just want something to entice me to play besides just for the fleeting fun of it.
Clarify? You either care about gear grind or you don't. It's okay to care one way or another. But this tatment contradicts yourself.
What entices you to play is having complete sets of armor, if you don't care about the stats, why does it matter if they have them?
Every other game on the market these days has "uber gear" for grinders. Can we have ONE game that is not focused on raiding for gear every other week to keep up? ONE game that values enjoyment over "rewards"? I, and many like me, play games for FUN, not to show off yet another piece of gear we spent the last month of our lives trying get.
Please play one of the 100 other mmo's that already pander to the vanity crowd and leave the ONE mmo that is getting back to roots alone so my kind of people have something to enjoy. TThanks!
I always wonder when people stopped playing games for the fun of it... WTF happened to just having fun?!?
GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I am not alone in being perplexed by this change in values.
It's why I love PvP. There isn't really a point to it. You can "win" the game as it were without pvp'ing. It's just FUN to play cowboys and indians with your pals in the front yard. Run around being silly and living out the fantasy for awhile, just because it's there!
Havnt read the thread but I think it works something like this.....
You get your gear which has base stats on it, and you enchant them in any way you wish according to what works better for your build. This way people have the same gear but stats flucuate in different ways.
Havnt read the thread but I think it works something like this.....
You get your gear which has base stats on it, and you enchant them in any way you wish according to what works better for your build. This way people have the same gear but stats flucuate in different ways.
Havnt read the thread but I think it works something like this.....
You get your gear which has base stats on it, and you enchant them in any way you wish according to what works better for your build. This way people have the same gear but stats flucuate in different ways.
Am i right?
Yes the gear has slots that you can use to customise it.
Havnt read the thread but I think it works something like this.....
You get your gear which has base stats on it, and you enchant them in any way you wish according to what works better for your build. This way people have the same gear but stats flucuate in different ways.
Am i right?
Yes the gear has slots that you can use to customise it.
Thats perfect, I dont see why people are complaining. What better way than to balance the items, and have people customize each item based on their prefered playstyle.
No gear grind - #1 selling point for a true pvpr. Plus alts.... dont have to grind to get them competitve.
true pvpers are anti gear grind?
News to me...
Actually yes True Pvpers are skill based players not gear grind players. Big difference in using skill to win and players that rely on gear to compete at all.
People keep talking about pvp being fair. "This should be this way because it would be fair." I've got news, life isn't fair and video games aren't fair. People work for what they have which gives them an advantage. This is true IRL and in game. Hard work should give individuals advantages over those who go and buy the "blue light special" armor from droks. Just my .02 cents.
If you believe that, good for you. No need for me to try to change your mind. Oh, and why are you on the Guild Wars 2 section of these forums? No offense, but obviously you do not like what anet is selling and you have every right to play a game that you will enjoy.. why come here and get all mad at people liking something different?
The way I see, your dedication and time in PvE will reward you for the PvE section. Same goes for PvP. And that's how it should be. You don't get Biology degree doing 4 years of Philosophy. Want to be the best in PvP just because you have more free time than everyone else? This is not the game for you. Now if you want to be the best in PvP just because you're more skilled, welcome aboard.
One of my major concerns with GW2 is the possibility that all lvl 80 items will have identical stats. I was an avid original Guild Wars player and one of my biggest complaints is the fact that I wasn't rewarded for spending hours and hours accumulating items to build high-end Fissure armor. Yes, the armor looked cool, but it had the exact same stats as (lvl 20) Droknars Forge armor. So here's the question. Will my dedication and time be worth the investment in end game dungeons offer better armor that has better stats than other level 80 armor or will it all be the same???!!!! I really hope I'm not going to spend all these hours in this game just to find out that its a socialist nation at level 80....
socialist nation?
capitalism in its late stages is what eventually turns into fascism. I think I'll take the even playing ground in my MMO and rely on skills, thanks.
99% of the other MMOs run on the model you want. Guidl Wars never has, and hopefully never will be about what you want. Why would you want to beat someone else just because you spend more time? some people are just naturals are exceel at life with half the effort of other people. thats just how it is. just because you play more, it does not make you better or give you magic powers.
some new kid will always be around who is a talent. Guild Wars recognizes that. fossile dinosaurs like to live in a world were they can exceel at being beta.
At level 80, there is a cap to weapon power and that cap will not increase once you reach it, unless they raise the level cap in a future expansion, of course.
Gear does have seperate stats and there are quality tiers, but once you have aquired the Gold tier level 80 gear with the stats you desire to compliment your builds, you will not have to worry about a new set coming out with higher level stats.
The highest (Gold) Tier level 80 gear can be aquired from a number of various means, including Heart Vendors (Karma), Dungeons, PVE drops, crafting, etc... There is some effort required to aquire the best gear. It isn't just handed to you when you hit level 80, but the amount of time required is supposed to be very reasonable.
What about Dungeon Gear?
Dungeon gear allows you a one method of aquiring max stat gear for the given level range. Dungeon gear also have skins that are reserved for dungeon rewards and one reason people will do dungeons will be for the look of the gear.
Are there any stat differences between Dungeon gear and gear aquired elsewhere?
One developer talked about the possibility that some dungeon gear may have stats more heavily skewed towards a singular attribute, rather than having more balanced stats, but that the overall power level of the item would be identical to a same tier item aquired by other means.
Gear Upgrades
Most gear have upgrade slots which allow you to further boost and customize the stats for the item and can even confer special set bonuses. Upgrades will allow people to further tailor their stats to their prefered build(s), but just as with gear, there is a power cap on upgrade components and there will be various outlets for aquiring them.
Summary
Gear progression doesn't end the minute you hit level 80. You are also not forced to accept a standardized gear stat package from your max power gear. However, there will be various ways to aquire your max stat, level 80 gear and players of all types, from hardcore dungeon hunters, to master crafters to even casual players, will all have means to aquire and customize their max stat gear with out an excessive amount of time or effort needing to be spent.
Once you aquire you max stat gear and are satisfied with the mix of stats, you will not have to worry about some new set being introduced to the game with a higher power level. No more endless gear grind.
Someone asked about the "hook", since getting "better" gear does not exist. In Guildwars 1, for me, the hook was unlocking my players skills through PvP. I didn't have access to absolutely everything right away, but I had a way to get them without doing PvE (I hate PvE with a burning passion of ten thousand fiery suns). I noticed something in that game: when I started I sucked, and getting new skills was time consuming. When I got the new skills, I had played enough of the game to understand the mechanics and potential mechanics of certain skills, and I would then win more frequently, and unlock more skills faster. This was a phenomenal mechanic that allowed myself, and players like to me learn the game through practice rather than through the developers puzzles (PvE). By the team I unlocked every skill in the game, I had built relationships with people that I still will play Guildwars 2 with.
The hook was the unlocking of skills and equipment. Once all you accomplished that, you a more than likely working on your Hall of Heroes title. The prestige of having your "/rank" emote was amazing. When I played, the players who had their Tiger earned it, and were also players in the top 100 guilds, and could be seen on GWTV. So, you can't have a piece of gear that lets you be the best. You have to earn it, and you WILL get recognized for being a great player. You will also be recognized for being a bad player, if you are noticed to take an excessively long time to get your rank,.
It looks like this is going to be one of those games were you will either have to love cosmetic options or pvp to play for much longer than the lvling process.
I think it will be fun to play through lvling up and checking out all the dungeons, but I don't think it will be a game that you would find yourself playing for years on end as your main game. It will likely be many people's side game, possbily to log in a few times a week for a change of pace.
Excellent point. Can't see the retention rate staying very high for this game. Will track avidly on xfire.
This is what I don't understand about GW2. Where is the hook - what keeps you playing? If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months? When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.
Why does gear grind have to be the hook to keep you playing, as opposed to enjoyment? Books don't give people gear, yet they hook people.
I never found the gear grind to be engaging, its basically a slot machine. Insert time and money and for 30 days you have a chance to get that piece of gear you want.
So GW2 is like a book. After your done reading it, you throw it away or shelf it for a long long time. Unless youa re a fanatic (PvPer) then you reread it until even that gets boring.
This is what I don't understand about GW2. Where is the hook - what keeps you playing? If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months? When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.
Why does gear grind have to be the hook to keep you playing, as opposed to enjoyment? Books don't give people gear, yet they hook people.
I never found the gear grind to be engaging, its basically a slot machine. Insert time and money and for 30 days you have a chance to get that piece of gear you want.
So GW2 is like a book. After your done reading it, you throw it away or shelf it for a long long time. Unless youa re a fanatic (PvPer) then you reread it until even that gets boring.
Comments
Actually yes True Pvpers are skill based players not gear grind players. Big difference in using skill to win and players that rely on gear to compete at all.
I think the game will get kinda boring after I've had my fill of the mists. Going after cosmetic gear doesn't sound that interesting. There doesn't seem to be any sense of long term goals.
IMO, games need some sort of grind at max lvl to keep players hooked. Guess it doesn't matter much as far as making money goes for ANet since there's no sub cost, but I'd like to have some long term goals to go after in the game.
Better gear doesn't even have to be all that much better but at least something would be nice.
I really don't care about having better gear than the next guy, I just want something to entice me to play besides just for the fleeting fun of it.
If you want a true, classic gear grinding experience with raid tiers and all that jazz, GW2 isn't the game for you. I'm not sure why people are bothered by the fact that GW2 is the game that it is, rather than the game that they want it to be.
There are plenty of other choices for gear grinds.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
The mantra that "the skilled player should always win" sounds good to the young and skilled but for other audiences it will fall flat. First, people like me who are not skilled will become discouraged. We can't beat skilled players no matter what we do - why keep playing? Second, the medium skill people will be disappointed for, as time goes on, the really skillful will dominate everything. How long would you stay with a game when you always get beaten?
I know that for many pvpers this is exactly what they are looking for. I don't think that it will be long term good for GW2 - it will end up like GW1. Worse case scenario is that the game will end up like DAOC, Aion and Darkfall - good pvp games but not wildly popular.
In spite of what I said above I did enjoy the GW2 beta and look forward to playing the game upon release. There is so much else other than pvp that is fun.
Those people that think they're hardcore and have had gear prop them up over the years with WoW, are in for a shock against the old school pvp'ers from UO/AC 1/Dark Age of Camelot....
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
That's why something like WvW exists. You don't need to be the most skilled player to have an impact. In fact, a brash or reckless skilled PvP'er might be less useful than someone who simply focuses on teamwork, objectives and doing what needs doing.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
^ This.
You might not be the best PvPer, hell I know that I'm not, but if you stay with a team as you roam around WvW, and figure out how to use your abilities to compliment and/or support theirs, you can still have a lot of fun. And other things, like helping to complete the PvE objectives in WvWvW, or keep defense, don't require a lot of skill per se, but does require people knowing what to do and how to best support their server/team's efforts.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Clarify? You either care about gear grind or you don't. It's okay to care one way or another. But this tatment contradicts yourself.
What entices you to play is having complete sets of armor, if you don't care about the stats, why does it matter if they have them?
Every other game on the market these days has "uber gear" for grinders. Can we have ONE game that is not focused on raiding for gear every other week to keep up? ONE game that values enjoyment over "rewards"? I, and many like me, play games for FUN, not to show off yet another piece of gear we spent the last month of our lives trying get.
Please play one of the 100 other mmo's that already pander to the vanity crowd and leave the ONE mmo that is getting back to roots alone so my kind of people have something to enjoy. TThanks!
I always wonder when people stopped playing games for the fun of it... WTF happened to just having fun?!?
GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I am not alone in being perplexed by this change in values.
It's why I love PvP. There isn't really a point to it. You can "win" the game as it were without pvp'ing. It's just FUN to play cowboys and indians with your pals in the front yard. Run around being silly and living out the fantasy for awhile, just because it's there!
All your keeps will belong to me!
Havnt read the thread but I think it works something like this.....
You get your gear which has base stats on it, and you enchant them in any way you wish according to what works better for your build. This way people have the same gear but stats flucuate in different ways.
Am i right?
Yesssss
Yes the gear has slots that you can use to customise it.
My theme song.
Thats perfect, I dont see why people are complaining. What better way than to balance the items, and have people customize each item based on their prefered playstyle.
Suits me.
Logical fallacy really, not to mention an ugly amount of stereotype.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
100% agreed
If you believe that, good for you. No need for me to try to change your mind. Oh, and why are you on the Guild Wars 2 section of these forums? No offense, but obviously you do not like what anet is selling and you have every right to play a game that you will enjoy.. why come here and get all mad at people liking something different?
socialist nation?
capitalism in its late stages is what eventually turns into fascism. I think I'll take the even playing ground in my MMO and rely on skills, thanks.
99% of the other MMOs run on the model you want. Guidl Wars never has, and hopefully never will be about what you want. Why would you want to beat someone else just because you spend more time? some people are just naturals are exceel at life with half the effort of other people. thats just how it is. just because you play more, it does not make you better or give you magic powers.
some new kid will always be around who is a talent. Guild Wars recognizes that. fossile dinosaurs like to live in a world were they can exceel at being beta.
gotta stay alpha brah.
Level 80 Gear
At level 80, there is a cap to weapon power and that cap will not increase once you reach it, unless they raise the level cap in a future expansion, of course.
Gear does have seperate stats and there are quality tiers, but once you have aquired the Gold tier level 80 gear with the stats you desire to compliment your builds, you will not have to worry about a new set coming out with higher level stats.
The highest (Gold) Tier level 80 gear can be aquired from a number of various means, including Heart Vendors (Karma), Dungeons, PVE drops, crafting, etc... There is some effort required to aquire the best gear. It isn't just handed to you when you hit level 80, but the amount of time required is supposed to be very reasonable.
What about Dungeon Gear?
Dungeon gear allows you a one method of aquiring max stat gear for the given level range. Dungeon gear also have skins that are reserved for dungeon rewards and one reason people will do dungeons will be for the look of the gear.
Are there any stat differences between Dungeon gear and gear aquired elsewhere?
One developer talked about the possibility that some dungeon gear may have stats more heavily skewed towards a singular attribute, rather than having more balanced stats, but that the overall power level of the item would be identical to a same tier item aquired by other means.
Gear Upgrades
Most gear have upgrade slots which allow you to further boost and customize the stats for the item and can even confer special set bonuses. Upgrades will allow people to further tailor their stats to their prefered build(s), but just as with gear, there is a power cap on upgrade components and there will be various outlets for aquiring them.
Summary
Gear progression doesn't end the minute you hit level 80. You are also not forced to accept a standardized gear stat package from your max power gear. However, there will be various ways to aquire your max stat, level 80 gear and players of all types, from hardcore dungeon hunters, to master crafters to even casual players, will all have means to aquire and customize their max stat gear with out an excessive amount of time or effort needing to be spent.
Once you aquire you max stat gear and are satisfied with the mix of stats, you will not have to worry about some new set being introduced to the game with a higher power level. No more endless gear grind.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Someone asked about the "hook", since getting "better" gear does not exist. In Guildwars 1, for me, the hook was unlocking my players skills through PvP. I didn't have access to absolutely everything right away, but I had a way to get them without doing PvE (I hate PvE with a burning passion of ten thousand fiery suns). I noticed something in that game: when I started I sucked, and getting new skills was time consuming. When I got the new skills, I had played enough of the game to understand the mechanics and potential mechanics of certain skills, and I would then win more frequently, and unlock more skills faster. This was a phenomenal mechanic that allowed myself, and players like to me learn the game through practice rather than through the developers puzzles (PvE). By the team I unlocked every skill in the game, I had built relationships with people that I still will play Guildwars 2 with.
The hook was the unlocking of skills and equipment. Once all you accomplished that, you a more than likely working on your Hall of Heroes title. The prestige of having your "/rank" emote was amazing. When I played, the players who had their Tiger earned it, and were also players in the top 100 guilds, and could be seen on GWTV. So, you can't have a piece of gear that lets you be the best. You have to earn it, and you WILL get recognized for being a great player. You will also be recognized for being a bad player, if you are noticed to take an excessively long time to get your rank,.
Excellent point. Can't see the retention rate staying very high for this game. Will track avidly on xfire.
So GW2 is like a book. After your done reading it, you throw it away or shelf it for a long long time. Unless youa re a fanatic (PvPer) then you reread it until even that gets boring.
Yikes.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-23-guild-wars-2-developer-has-plans-for-literally-years-to-come
BOOM