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anyone else think the combat left something to be desired?

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Comments


  • Originally posted by BadSpock

    Originally posted by GrayGhost79

    Dodge actually isn't to bad, not great but not awful. It's simply another ability at your disposal so you can't look at it as a standalone mechanic to get you out of trouble.

    That is a very good point.

    Dodging isn't as much of a system or mechanic as it is simply another ability at your disposal to be woven into your combat strategy and play style / skill.

    I wonder if this is why Anet built so many traits that can add additional functionality to your dodge?

    For hard encounters dodging sans extra endurance/vigor is not sufficient for a complete defense.  Against hard encounter you absolutely need something else from your class.  Blocks/evades/blinds/Cripples whatever it is.  Dodge is at best 50% of what you need.

     

    This idea that dodge is a total defense is based in other games.  That isn't how it works.  On my Mesmer running Staff + sword/pistol.  Dodge is at best 25% of my total defense.  Its not even the best movement skill I would have since I have multiple teleports I can coneivably use.

     

    Dodge is basicaly one of the 20 some odd skills you have available to you at any one time.

  • Kaisen_DexxKaisen_Dexx Lee''s Summit, MOPosts: 285Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    Watching your video, I think you tried kiting way too loosely. You might try tightening your kite, and circle-strafing more. There was a lot of time between your attacks. When I was playing my elementalists, fighting those rams, I kept a really tight circle and rarely got hit.

     

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member

    Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    Watching your video, I think you tried kiting way too loosely. You might try tightening your kite, and circle-strafing more. There was a lot of time between your attacks. When I was playing my elementalists, fighting those rams, I kept a really tight circle and rarely got hit.

     

    Thank you, a good tip I can maybe make use of next time.

    In my original post I said I felt I had to kite a bit too much for my own liking. Any other way you approached it to minimize kiting? My cripples and dazes didn't last long and detonating my images for added DPS was lackluster.

    Later at higher levels, I was putting points into Domination as well. To increase the duration of the effects on the mobs (IIRC).

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

     

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    *Leaves earth*

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,000Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    I thought it felt better the longer I played. I also thought that the ele felt a bit unresponsive while the thief felt just right, but I played thief for about 8 hours and ele 2.

    With Teras combat I actually thought it felt worse, mostly since some attacks locked you for a short while, that felt unresponsible to me.

    Still, both of them felt better than Rift and TOR to me (I use them as example since they are relatively new games with classical combat).

    I don't think GW2s combat is perfect or anything, but easily good enough, it is just that it takes some time to get into it. Some classes felt better for me than others though and I think most players will prefer one or 2 classes to the rest.

    I think you should try the thief, it sounds more like your kind of class as well compared to many of the other classes.

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon
    Melee was a little too hack N slashy for me, and the longbow was a little slow ( talking from ranger perspective ) so yes In a way.  But I have a feeling both will get balanced out by launch.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    I didn't touch the tab key period while playing GW 2 as well

    *Gets back on his space shuttle to leave earth*

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    I thought it felt better the longer I played. I also thought that the ele felt a bit unresponsive while the thief felt just right, but I played thief for about 8 hours and ele 2.

    With Teras combat I actually thought it felt worse, mostly since some attacks locked you for a short while, that felt unresponsible to me.

    Still, both of them felt better than Rift and TOR to me (I use them as example since they are relatively new games with classical combat).

    I don't think GW2s combat is perfect or anything, but easily good enough, it is just that it takes some time to get into it. Some classes felt better for me than others though and I think most players will prefer one or 2 classes to the rest.

    I think you should try the thief, it sounds more like your kind of class as well compared to many of the other classes.

    Dude keep at it with the Ele, it was awesome for me. The whole dynamic with the attunements was very interesting and added a huge level of complexity even early on. I tried the thief a bit and it was pretty sweet, I plan on playing it more next beta.

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  • stragen001stragen001 ReadingPosts: 1,720Member

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

     

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    I suspect you were playing a melee class. I played a couple and just didnt find them fun unfortunately. I think thats something ANet needs to look at because I found the melee aspects of the Ranger to be excellent. That could just be personal preference though.

    I think dodge is GREAT, I just wish I had more stamina at times because I seemed to only be able to dodge twice then ran out. I suspect that stamina will increase though as you level...

    Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by justinope

    I dunno, it just seems like I wanted so much to love this game (long time arenanet fan, gw1 was my first mmo) but for me  the problem was that the combat felt so incredibly unresponsive. Did anyone else feel this way? It just seems like there are barely any instant attacks at all along with a bunch of attacks with swing timers and such. It honestly reminds me of LOTRO's combat system which I loathe. 

    I mean I could just be spoiled by TERA's awesomely responive combat system and trying to hold it to those (unrealistic?) standards. Everyone in my guild even said "wow really" at the tab targeting and I'm forced to agree with them.

     

    Regardless though, what does everyone else think?

    Wierd... what class did you play? (or classes).

    I'm also wondering if you were experiencing lag issues during the beta. There were a lot of these on friday, but most of it was cleared up by sunday. I'm puzzled that you feel TERA's combat is more responsive..in a way I guess you could say that, but it locks you into attacks, which GW2 doesn't do.

    Personally, I found the combat to be very responsive. I had some lag on a few abilities (like leap), which was a little wierd. What I really liked, though, is I could start an attack, and if it wasn't working I could cancel it no problem, with only the penalty of putting it on cooldown. Overall, I think the combat system was pretty smooth, even meleeing as a ranger (which has a lot of attacks that dash your character around), I still found it pretty smooth. I tried TERA as well, and imho it just felt clunky in comparison.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Valkaern

    We clearly have different taste, so I'm not sure it's entirely the fault of either game, but more a matter of preference.

    My wife and I had decided to try Tera until GW2 finally released ('how bad could it be?', we'd figured). We hadn't really followed Tera, just saw it and assumed it'd be a standard MMO but with what could be the addition of a fun combat system. So we watched some videos and looked into it a bit more as prior to that we'd only been familiar with it through articles here and on Massively, and decided to try the beta weekend before ordering.

    We tried it the first night of the weekend and had second thoughts, tried it again the next day when we were less tired and it was clear it wasn't for us. A lot of people clearly seem to enjoy Teras combat, but for us it just didn't click. It felt forced and clunky and more restrictive than we'd anticipated. Which is unfortunate, ideally we would have liked something to play until GW2s release that was atleast co-op if not an MMO.

    GW2, in comparison for us, was the polar opposite. Every action felt responsive, smooth, satisfying and fun. We'd bought GW1 and played for maybe 8 hours total over the years since it's release, it just wasn't for us. So naturally when GW2 was announced I though, so what? I would think possibly the low expectations and the fact that I hadn't been anticipating this game could be part of the reason we were so absolutely impressed with just about every detail. But then again, we hadn't ever cared about or anticipated Tera either, we knew about BAMs and that it supposedly had a more action oriented combat. All in all, Tera just felt like something we'd played elsewhere a thousand times before, only this version wasn't quite as deep. The community on our server was a bit hostile as well judging by the general chat, and constantly being followed around by people spamming duel requests was a bit annoying, even after a polite 'No thanks, we're in the middle of something'. I really liked the graphics, and the world itself looked very nicely done, but that's not really enough for us.

    Regardless, I can't imagine people disliking the combat in GW2. We found it to be so fluid and well done - and addictive, we're climbing the walls here desperate for anything to tide us over till it's release but having a hard time enjoying anything after playing GW2 first hand.

    So, I think it only further illustrates that despite all the wars waged on these forums by the different camps, sometimes it all just comes down to personal taste, and there's no right or wrong when it comes to that.

    By the way, you seem to be under the impression you need to tab target in GW2. Just to clarify, that's an option that's available but skills and abilities work just as well without targetting. Which would be understandable, it's a new game and it does quite a few things differently than standard MMOs so you may not have picked up on all the ins and outs in just a few days.

    A+ Nice read. I'm glad you and your wife will be playing!

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • Kaisen_DexxKaisen_Dexx Lee''s Summit, MOPosts: 285Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Originally posted by Kaisen_Dexx

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    Watching your video, I think you tried kiting way too loosely. You might try tightening your kite, and circle-strafing more. There was a lot of time between your attacks. When I was playing my elementalists, fighting those rams, I kept a really tight circle and rarely got hit.

     

    Thank you, a good tip I can maybe make use of next time.

    In my original post I said I felt I had to kite a bit too much for my own liking. Any other way you approached it to minimize kiting? My cripples and dazes didn't last long and detonating my images for added DPS was lackluster.

    Later at higher levels, I was putting points into Domination as well. To increase the duration of the effects on the mobs (IIRC).

    Short of equipping a sword for extra melee block abilities, not really. You might try equipping a torch in your offhand for scepter for the blind from Prestige. There might be a few utility skills you have (Don't know the mesmer utility skills off hand) that either blind or daze to some extent which can reduce the rate at which you need ot kite, but even if you're pure melee you're going to need to move and kite a lot.

  • OnomicOnomic TønsbergPosts: 196Member

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    I tried to watch your video but i never saw that you fought with melee weapon, i saw you equip em but never actualy use em. 

    Longsword/bell was a sweet offensive combo, it was the weapon set i never switched out from level 7-22, my range set was greatsword or staff. That bell summon had massive aoe dmg but didt move much. Longsword had a channel skill with high damage that made you immune to damage and this helpd that summon to keep mob in range. Stil i had to dodge out of combat and kite some until it was of cd then i jumpd into melee range and finished em off.

    But at that low level it aint adviced to fight stuff 2-3 levels higher then you, you lack the utility skills and experience to do so. You probably didt buy the white level 10 weapons that made that experience even harder then it should have been. i know i had multi level 5 weapons when i was 10. You could buy new white weapons at 5-10-15-20 etc.

    I think way to many people wanted to takle higher level mobs since it was possible, but it was hard and you should get more game knowledge befor doeing so. Like the mesmer heal, with 0-1 illusion up it was crap but with 2-3 illusions up it was on borderland of OP.

    If you had the right utility skill you could have summond 2 illusion instantly and have a good hp pool in an instant but since you was that low level you didt have it and would need to kite around while you muster up those illusions. That utility skill alone would make higher content way more doable.

    I think you naild that dodge pretty well so that aint your problem. Try a few of the tips i gave you in the next beta and see how it goes, im pretty sure you will do better.

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member

    Originally posted by Onomic

    Originally posted by NBlitz

    Wow, so many responses and not a single one brought up something that was kind of bothering me.

    Maybe it's because I need to L2P some more? But I found myself having to kite way too much when it came to melee mobs (which there are many of!).

     

    I tried melee weapons as a mesmer but if there were more than 1 mob I was screwed and had to run away to kite yet again.

     

    Tackling two animals (ultimately I got spanked) and shortly thereafter a veteran was hot after me and someone else. After the guy resurrected I said screw it and ran in circles while I was being chased while he DPSed him down. I could've crippled the veteran but it lasts so shortly, omg.

     

    I tried to watch your video but i never saw that you fought with melee weapon, i saw you equip em but never actualy use em. 

    Longsword/bell was a sweet offensive combo, it was the weapon set i never switched out from level 7-22, my range set was greatsword or staff. That bell summon had massive aoe dmg but didt move much. Longsword had a channel skill with high damage that made you immune to damage and this helpd that summon to keep mob in range. Stil i had to dodge out of combat and kite some until it was of cd then i jumpd into melee range and finished em off.

    But at that low level it aint adviced to fight stuff 2-3 levels higher then you, you lack the utility skills and experience to do so. You probably didt buy the white level 10 weapons that made that experience even harder then it should have been. i know i had multi level 5 weapons when i was 10. You could buy new white weapons at 5-10-15-20 etc.

    I think way to many people wanted to takle higher level mobs since it was possible, but it was hard and you should get more game knowledge befor doeing so. Like the mesmer heal, with 0-1 illusion up it was crap but with 2-3 illusions up it was on borderland of OP.

    If you had the right utility skill you could have summond 2 illusion instantly and have a good hp pool in an instant but since you was that low level you didt have it and would need to kite around while you muster up those illusions. That utility skill alone would make higher content way more doable.

    I think you naild that dodge pretty well so that aint your problem. Try a few of the tips i gave you in the next beta and see how it goes, im pretty sure you will do better.

    Thanks! Noted.

    Give longsword more tries, bell summon in my range and near mob, buy white weapons every 5 levels, mesmer heal 2-3 stacks and simply level some more.

    I did get to 15 before the event ended. It did get "better". I could daze the mobs a bit longer thanks to the domination trait line.

  • MeleagarMeleagar Nunyadambidness, TXPosts: 407Member
    Yeah, the combat left me desiring more GW2 play time.
  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Originally posted by Meleagar

    Yeah, the combat left me desiring more GW2 play time.

    Good one.  :)

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  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Let's see...

    TERA - point at mob with mouse, use the exact same rotation of any typical fantasy MMO skills over and over and hit one button to dodge or block when the mob spends 2-3 seconds glowing telling you "hey, dumby, I'm going to hit you now."

    All while being locked in place without being able to move while you are doing an over the top anime animation with a weapon 2-3 times your size.

    Rely on gear, levels, HP potions, and pocket healers (especially for PvP.)

     

    GW2 - nearly every attack can be done on the move (and most likely should be), you still have to aim yourself at the mob(s) and can hit multiple un-targetted enemies without tab-target with a lot of skills.

    You don't get infinite dodge/block and have to choose when to use it tactically, as well as get traits/perks to make your dodge do different things to be more useful (stealth, heals, phantasms, buffs, debuffs, damaging attacks, etc.

    All classes (professions) are self suffient and can combo off of each other without having to be in a group, there are no pocket healers or tanks to hold aggro for you so you can face roll your DPS rotations.

     

    So let's see...

    Static, traditional trinity based combat with an action/aiming gimmick - TERA

    Something new and different, a new model all together - GW2

    You decide.

    Yeah I have to agree with you on Tera. Not only did it feel clunky and unnecessarily restrictive, but it felt like they were going out of their way to avoid using tab targetting just to avoid using tab targetting.

    It felt like they were trying to force a square peg into a round hole, as if they'd designed a traditional MMO hotbar and combat system, then simply removed tab targetting and called it 'action', rather than designing a whole coherent system.

    Combined with the obscene powers of gravity that apparently prevents arrows from travelling more than 20 feet in that world, it felt like they'd gone too far out of their way in the name of one bullet point gimmick - which was tacked on to the most linear and restrictive task grind I've seen in a long time. 

    I'm a little disappointed, I'd had low expectations for Tera and had no long term expectations whatsoever, but had assumed that even though the rest of the game was a traditionally shallow and uneventful grind, the combat would make for an enjoyable distraction until GW2 released.

     

  • ScarlyngScarlyng Pleasant Hill, CAPosts: 159Member
    I thought the combat rocked.  Most MMO's I can sort of sleepwalk through fights in PvE, but not GW2.

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Originally posted by Valkaern

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Let's see...

    TERA - point at mob with mouse, use the exact same rotation of any typical fantasy MMO skills over and over and hit one button to dodge or block when the mob spends 2-3 seconds glowing telling you "hey, dumby, I'm going to hit you now."

    All while being locked in place without being able to move while you are doing an over the top anime animation with a weapon 2-3 times your size.

    Rely on gear, levels, HP potions, and pocket healers (especially for PvP.)

    GW2 - nearly every attack can be done on the move (and most likely should be), you still have to aim yourself at the mob(s) and can hit multiple un-targetted enemies without tab-target with a lot of skills.

    You don't get infinite dodge/block and have to choose when to use it tactically, as well as get traits/perks to make your dodge do different things to be more useful (stealth, heals, phantasms, buffs, debuffs, damaging attacks, etc.

    All classes (professions) are self suffient and can combo off of each other without having to be in a group, there are no pocket healers or tanks to hold aggro for you so you can face roll your DPS rotations.

    So let's see...

    Static, traditional trinity based combat with an action/aiming gimmick - TERA

    Something new and different, a new model all together - GW2

    You decide.

    Yeah I have to agree with you on Tera. Not only did it feel clunky and unnecessarily restrictive, but it felt like they were going out of their way to avoid using tab targetting just to avoid using tab targetting.

    It felt like they were trying to force a square peg into a round hole, as if they'd designed a traditional MMO hotbar and combat system, then simply removed tab targetting and called it 'action', rather than designing a whole coherent system.

    Combined with the obscene powers of gravity that apparently prevents arrows from travelling more than 20 feet in that world, it felt like they'd gone too far out of their way in the name of one bullet point gimmick - which was tacked on to the most linear and restrictive task grind I've seen in a long time. 

    I'm a little disappointed, I'd had low expectations for Tera and had no long term expectations whatsoever, but had assumed that even though the rest of the game was a traditionally shallow and uneventful grind, the combat would make for an enjoyable distraction until GW2 released.

    Good points.

    Games based on a gimmick never, and I mean NEVER seem to work out do they?

    The games that do work out and are a major success are games with a "total package" - a coherant design philosophy that extends across every facet of game play - no convention is left unchallenged, no stone unturned.

    A good game will question everything, and sure sometimes they'll realize the way the "other" guys are doing it IS really the best way.

    But that in a nut shell is what I saw/feel was the major problem with games like WAR, AoC, TR, Rift, TOR, and now TERA -

    You can't just slap on a new coat of paint, change a few little things (i.e. your gimmick) and hope for a resounding success.

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