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GW2 will mean the end of the subscription based MMO

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  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by mmoseller888

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

    I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

    TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

    ur agrument is weak b/c lotr aoc eq2 aion went f2p, swg warhammer vanguard darkfall mortal all tanked, sub game doesnt mean its better game period. 

    yes, bad games generally are f2p.  at least if I'm interpreting your attempt at english lol.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member

    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    " Along with TSW and TERA."

     

    except that,if you look up korean mmos.which is what Tera is,i doubt many people will want to play gw2 over it

     

    american mmos,yeah.....casuals r us

     

    korean mmos,i doubt your average casual will last a day in one.and this is coming from someone who played korean mmos before i started playing american ones

    its kinda funny i actually saw people in swtor general chat on the fleet in my server talking about tera.will be funny when they dont even play it over a day when they relize that korean mmos arent like your average casual mmo

     

     

    Didn't this game allready flop in Korea ?...so we are talking about a Korean game that even the Koreans don't like? Now tell who is suppose to like this game besides trolls and perverts?

  • JaylanonyousJaylanonyous Fairfield, CAPosts: 31Member

    Honestly I think the B2P model and the F2P model generate more money than the Sub. Look at league of legends for example. Sure alot of people wont spend money to buy the costumes or champions. But enough people do, to make up for the people who don't.

     

    So we will probably see more of this in the future. I prefer the Monthly Sub, honestly. I spend less and feel as if because they are getting a steady stream of money, they are more likely to make new content. If they care about the game that is. Rift is a good example. I doubt they would make much money if they went F2P, but with the steady stream they pumped out alot of content.

     

    Having a sub and cash shop.. WOW.. Is just greedy

     

     

    Also, i dont even consider GW2 much of a MMO and more of a FPS MMO hybrid. I know everyone will disagree, but the way the PVP works is what makes it less of a MMO for me.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

    I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

    TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

    See the problem I have is I think the BWE was almost worth the price of $ 60...when compared to pieces of shit I've played since leaving WOW in 2007 ...this list includes the likes of AOC,Warhammer,Aion and SWTOR and the ultimate crap Tera (which I couldn't play if you payed me $60 to fumble around in it for 4 hours on a weekend)

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member
    you GW2 fans are delusional.....

    image

  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTPosts: 243Member
    I prefer the monthly sub with no cash shop so that everyones on equal footing. B2P is ok so far as it doesn't go too pay to win. And by too I mean more than $15 a month.

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    I doubt it will.

    GW2 is a very focussed game. This is what makes it so good. But that is also it's biggest drawback. It's probably the best game developed in terms of what it's designed to do. But it is NOT designed to be all things to all people. It seems that GW2 is being marketed to be Number one. Here is the problem with that. There are many facets to MMOs and the reasons people play them are numerous. Below is a list of MMO aspects some people might find lacking or not well developed in GW2.

    People who like to Heal

    People who like to Tank

    People who like to play the economies earning gold through buying and selling

    People who like a comprehensive crafting system

    People who like player cities and housing

    People who like progression raiding

    People who like progression PVP

    People who like FFA PVP

    People who will not touch this game for no other reason but because it has a Cash Shop

    People who like to improve their stats through better gear

    People who don't like action oreiented combat

     

    This is the list that is just off the top of my head. But here is the thing. It's not exclusive. There is overlap. There are people who are in multiple categories. And for those who like GW2 for what it does offer, they will buy and play GW2. For those who are also in any of the above, they will probably maintain or at some point return to their accounts in thie other games.

    In short. Some will play GW2 only, A few will not play GW2 at all, Many will play GW2 alongside something else.

    Strange every reason you have listed is the exact reason I'm not enjoying playing other mmo's ...not sure about housing as I only ever did that in LOTRO and to be honest it wasn't much there !!.. and I'm not sure about progression pvp ? but I'll bet there will be pretty competive pvp ladder matches if the BWE reflects the finnished product

  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member

    Originally posted by ELE3551

    I prefer the monthly sub with no cash shop so that everyones on equal footing. B2P is ok so far as it doesn't go too pay to win. And by too I mean more than $15 a month.

    Pay to win what?....Please will someone tell me what it is I'm going to win?...the only thing I have paid for is a game that I got my money's worth in one weekend

    BWE weekend -25 hours of fun _$60 .....Saturday Round of Golf -4.5 hrs of fun _$65

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    Originally posted by adam_nox

    My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

    I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

    TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

    You've failed to demonstrate anything even remotely P2W. Even the experience buffs and the like can be crafted (cooking). Guild buffs at best are defensive only and in the immediate vicinity of the structure that guild holds. Take that structure, the buff goes >poof<.

     

    Buy the box, no subs, cosmetic and desirable items in the store. That's the wave of the MMO future. P2W will exist in a few F2P shooter type games, but that'll be about it.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Another GW2 "fan" that thinks this game is the Robot Jesus of MMOs.image

    Well maybe not, but seriously, what is or at least looks to be the "savior" of the genre?  GW2 will push things in a different direction, dare I say (IMO) the right direction.  That's not a bad thing, there are only so many games that can offer WoW mechanics before the genre stagnates (if it hasn't already).  The reason WoW is still doing so well is because it still does WoW better than its clones.  A little positivity never hurt, so I'm happy about the game because I want to see it evolve.

    Will GW2 save the genre from being a profitless mess?  10 million WoW fans say "No", but what about the rest of us who eventually wanted something new or at the very least, for a company to show the dedication to change, fun, value, and their own players that ANet is?

    I realize some of the fans are annoying.  They're bored but excited about the potential, but if people would look beyond forums and pissing contests, they'd see a good thing.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Another GW2 "fan" that thinks this game is the Robot Jesus of MMOs.image

    Well maybe not, but seriously, what is or at least looks to be the "savior" of the genre?  GW2 will push things in a different direction, dare I say (IMO) the right direction.  That's not a bad thing, there are only so many games that can offer WoW mechanics before the genre stagnates (if it hasn't already).  The reason WoW is still doing so well is because it still does WoW better than its clones.  A little positivity never hurt, so I'm happy about the game because I want to see it evolve.

    Will GW2 save the genre from being a profitless mess?  10 million WoW fans say "No", but what about the rest of us who eventually wanted something new or at the very least, for a company to show the dedication to change, fun, value, and their own players that ANet is?

    I realize some of the fans are annoying.  They're bored but excited about the potential, but if people would look beyond forums and pissing contests, they'd see a good thing.

    I'm not saying GW2 won't be good.  It probably will be and I am looking forward to it but its "fans" have been going on for years now like its the second coming of Christ and have made me much less enthused about the game and the prospect of having to play it with them.  They're the worst fanboys I've ever seen, and that includes Vanguards Vanboys and Darkfall's carebear slaying pvp Gods.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Baddogbill


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    I doubt it will.
    GW2 is a very focussed game. This is what makes it so good. But that is also it's biggest drawback. It's probably the best game developed in terms of what it's designed to do. But it is NOT designed to be all things to all people. It seems that GW2 is being marketed to be Number one. Here is the problem with that. There are many facets to MMOs and the reasons people play them are numerous. Below is a list of MMO aspects some people might find lacking or not well developed in GW2.
    People who like to Heal
    People who like to Tank
    People who like to play the economies earning gold through buying and selling
    People who like a comprehensive crafting system
    People who like player cities and housing
    People who like progression raiding
    People who like progression PVP
    People who like FFA PVP
    People who will not touch this game for no other reason but because it has a Cash Shop
    People who like to improve their stats through better gear
    People who don't like action oreiented combat
     
    This is the list that is just off the top of my head. But here is the thing. It's not exclusive. There is overlap. There are people who are in multiple categories. And for those who like GW2 for what it does offer, they will buy and play GW2. For those who are also in any of the above, they will probably maintain or at some point return to their accounts in thie other games.
    In short. Some will play GW2 only, A few will not play GW2 at all, Many will play GW2 alongside something else.

    Strange every reason you have listed is the exact reason I'm not enjoying playing other mmo's ...not sure about housing as I only ever did that in LOTRO and to be honest it wasn't much there !!.. and I'm not sure about progression pvp ? but I'll bet there will be pretty competive pvp ladder matches if the BWE reflects the finnished product

    I don't find it strange at all if you aren't looking for those things. GW2 is a focused game. It's going to hit it's target like a laser. But if someone want's something in that target, GW2 will most likely be the best option, If they want something else, Well, then there will have to be others. In the end, I am willing to bet the majority of GW2 players will be playing more than one game. For the exact reason you think GW2 will kill Subs it probably will do the opposite. IMO, it will allow for them more than any other game would.

  • JaylanonyousJaylanonyous Fairfield, CAPosts: 31Member

    IMO GW2 will be a great game and appeal to alot of players. But also it is a step in the wrong direction for MMO's. Full action, Raiding starts at level 1 super competitive PVP is all fun. But i feel its not a MMO. I believe MMORPG's should center around Character progression, being unique in a vast world and community.  

     

    All the action, and doging and pvp is fun. But I personally had more fun Sitting in one spot grinding monsters in EQ, talking to random people and making life long friends. Or going to cantinas in SWG to buff up and just socialize. 

     

    It feels like MMO's are turning into more of a Hack and slash, fps hybrid in a seamless world, with instances... Everyone wants to be equal and everything balanced. If the tank and healer cant 1v1 then the game must make it so they are even. Its dumb. Most casual players are the ones who are in /g or /whisper being told they are the worst players in the world and should quit.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Minny
    90% of all mmorpg's already have no longer a subscription fee...
     
     
    But I think the OP forgot 2 things:
     
     
    - the advantage of belonging to a club with a fee entrance
     
    - the fact the lame developer controlled cash shop is going to be obsolete with the real money auction house in a few weeks.
     
     
     
    Play to earn real money in an online game will beat anything. Just my 2 cents.
     
    One of the (secrets) of a succesful MMO like Wow and EVE is the economy. Add a real money player driven AH to this and the rest will look like playing poker with fake chips.
     

    That's because 90% of them sucked in their own right. Those games themselves weren't worthy of a sub regardless of industry trends.

    Had SWTOR been the game it was supposed to be, I don't think this thread would be here.

    There is, however, a caveat to this. In my own experience, I am finding myself suffering from the MMO repetition burnout. I just can't log into the same old games for 6-8 hrs straight anymore. I can't do it. 1-2 on a solo day, and on grouped content, Obviously, I am in it for the session, but even then I find myself wishing we'd just call it a day after several hrs. So, I can understand for some, B2P/F2P offer value. I might even find myself using the cash shop if the value is there.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon

    Why should it end sub based MMOs? I think that many people, including myself prefer a monthly sub to keep at least some sociopaths away.

    GW2 may be a good addition to the MMO genre which has been very stagnant over the last 5-6 years and that's it. 

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    "- the fact the lame developer controlled cash shop is going to be obsolete with the real money auction house in a few weeks."

    real money auction house

     

    one of the big turn offs i had about diablo 3

     

     

  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Originally posted by Eir_S

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Another GW2 "fan" that thinks this game is the Robot Jesus of MMOs.image

    Well maybe not, but seriously, what is or at least looks to be the "savior" of the genre?  GW2 will push things in a different direction, dare I say (IMO) the right direction.  That's not a bad thing, there are only so many games that can offer WoW mechanics before the genre stagnates (if it hasn't already).  The reason WoW is still doing so well is because it still does WoW better than its clones.  A little positivity never hurt, so I'm happy about the game because I want to see it evolve.

    Will GW2 save the genre from being a profitless mess?  10 million WoW fans say "No", but what about the rest of us who eventually wanted something new or at the very least, for a company to show the dedication to change, fun, value, and their own players that ANet is?

    I realize some of the fans are annoying.  They're bored but excited about the potential, but if people would look beyond forums and pissing contests, they'd see a good thing.

    I'm not saying GW2 won't be good.  It probably will be and I am looking forward to it but its "fans" have been going on for years now like its the second coming of Christ and have made me much less enthused about the game and the prospect of having to play it with them.  They're the worst fanboys I've ever seen, and that includes Vanguards Vanboys and Darkfall's carebear slaying pvp Gods.

    Since when has a new MMO not been proclaimed as the greatest thing since sliced bread?  But it is tiresome seeing fanboism running rampant around trying to shove their opinion down other's throats.

    Pre-purchased and will love GW2, but I know full well it will have it's fair share of faults.

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    "Had SWTOR been the game it was supposed to be, I don't think this thread would be here."

    i think the community might be more to blame then bioware for swtor not being the game its suppose to be

    im sure there original plan was eventually adding the stuff in to make it the game they claimed it to be.but the community didnt really care,they saw the game wasnt having all the features that would take time to implement and there way of dealing with it wasnt sticking with the game til they got implemented

    it was eather re rolling and clogging up the already overpopulated high pop servers,or leaving the game.and the funny thing is? bioware still hasnt got a clue about its community.you will see the example when server transfers that are free make 95 percent of the servers ghosttowns

    not that im trying to defend sw tor though.the only reason why ive probably stuck with that game for so long is because id rather watch paint dry then go back to wow again

     

     

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Piiritus

    Why should it end sub based MMOs? I think that many people, including myself prefer a monthly sub to keep at least some sociopaths away.

    GW2 may be a good addition to the MMO genre which has been very stagnant over the last 5-6 years and that's it. 

    Subs don't keep sociopaths away, just add full loot and the sociopaths will swarm around it sub or not.

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    I really hope so. I'm getting tired of paying extra to just access the game I already paid the box price for when they hardly put out any new content to justify the monthly fee. Like WoW for example... they might come out with a new raid and a few dungeons every what, 3-6 months? So I'm basically paying $45-90 for maybe 20 hours of content? No thanks.

     

    Would much rather buy games and pay for DLC optionally.

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Boston, MAPosts: 387Member Uncommon

    Subscription based games are FAIL, and GW2 shows that you can have a MMO with no sub that owns allothers.

    Also, F2P games that are Pay2Play in disguise such as LOTRO, AoC and others will be FAIL as well.

    LONG LIVE THE NO SUB KING OF MMOs GUILD WARS 2!

    I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.



  • Originally posted by Adamantine

     

    I bought GW1 and I didnt even finished the standard missions. It was just so mindnumbing superboring really quick. 

    Seriously are you kidding me? LOL. I bought GW1 4 months ago and never had as much fun since WoW vanilla, and partly lotro.

     

    I remember I once got back to WoW "because of the graphics". I totally regret that now and when I see those awesome GW1 players helping me out, grouping up with me and giving me freebies I wonder how I could ever have thought that all mmorpg player communities are consisting of mostly selfish players. lotro made me understand that, and gw made me understand that a game with a fun community can even be kind of exciting!

     

    Anyways have a good time whereever you are. 

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I really hope so. I'm getting tired of paying extra to just access the game I already paid the box price for when they hardly put out any new content to justify the monthly fee. Like WoW for example... they might come out with a new raid and a few dungeons every what, 3-6 months? So I'm basically paying $45-90 for maybe 20 hours of content? No thanks.

     

    Would much rather buy games and pay for DLC optionally.

    Tbh paying 15 a month isn't all that concerning but it has irked me lately (well since i quit wow 2+ years ago and mmo jumped around some since then)  that the game I already shelled out tons of money on is now utterly unavailable to me unless I pay more and I'm locked out of several of them!

    So yeah I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month for convience and cosmetic items while having full free access to the game forever and able to experience all content without additional cost.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,200Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by dlld

    Originally posted by jusomdude

    I really hope so. I'm getting tired of paying extra to just access the game I already paid the box price for when they hardly put out any new content to justify the monthly fee. Like WoW for example... they might come out with a new raid and a few dungeons every what, 3-6 months? So I'm basically paying $45-90 for maybe 20 hours of content? No thanks.

    Would much rather buy games and pay for DLC optionally.

    Tbh paying 15 a month isn't all that concerning but it has irked me lately (well since i quit wow 2+ years ago and mmo jumped around some since then)  that the game I already shelled out tons of money on is now utterly unavailable to me unless I pay more and I'm locked out of several of them!

    So yeah I'd rather pay 15 bucks a month for convience and cosmetic items while having full free access to the game forever and able to experience all content without additional cost.

    But then why pay $60+ in an up front fee just to access the game?  There are quality F2P cash shop games that don't require any up front fee, or where spending money actually gets you game game cash.  Some of the best pvp MMOs (Lineage 2 and Aion) don't require any money up front and no monthly fee.  Where does the justification come in for a F2P cash shop game (and by that I mean no sub fee) charging an up front fee to play?

  • aerinndisaerinndis x, SCPosts: 67Member

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    No, no GW2 will NOT be the "end of subscription based MMOs". They've got a PayToWin cash-shop, and those never go over well. (in case you're wondering, they have xp boosts & chest keys that can't be earned in-game. You're exchanging RL currency for ADVANTAGES over other people...not cool ANET.)

     

    I couldn't care less if you like the cash shop model or not, but at least don't post things that are blantantly wrong. Keys can absolutely be earned in game. I also received a boost as a quest reward (edit: received it after completing a portion of the personal story line, perhaps quest is not the right word), as well as inside one of the chests.. that dropped from a mob in game.. which I opened with a key that dropped from a mob in game.

    I don't think GW2 will be the end of sub-based MMOs. I would be shocked if Blizzard's next MMO is not sub-based.

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