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Unfounded Hate against GW2 and its 'fanbois'
impiro
Member Posts: 204
With this thread I want to specifically address the amount of unfounded hate and negativity against GW2 and its fans, and how it derails any attempt at serious discussion about GW2. Especially after the BW, but even long before that, multiple people on these forums are constantly hating and whining on GW2 and its fans. Now this will be seen as a silly attempt of a GW2 fanboy to deny any form on negativity on GW2, but it is not.
By no means do I want to deny or debunk any negativity towards this game for the sake of it being negative about something I like, and I belief this goes for the majority of GW2's fans. The haters on the other hand do make out to be that this is the case, without giving any proper argumentation or reasoning, basing this accusation on nothing more than the fact that we like GW2.
Any attempt to discuss anything in a serious way will be kicked down and burned by the haters, because according to them, the fanbois of gw2 will rationalize anything about GW2 in a way that satisfies their positive view on the game. The funny thing is that the haters keep screaming and crying that this is the case, while very little actual occurrences of this will be seen on the forums. Often people with knowledge of the game will debunk negative attitudes toward it with valid reasoning and arguments, but regardless the haters will just pull the old strawman saying that gw2 fans will not hear anything negative about their game. This is a load of bull, as many GW2 fans, including me, do have multiple concerns and quirks with the game.
The thing is that a lot of the haters base their negativity on false premises and reasoning. It is ok for anybody to like or dislike something. If it is because of the thing at hand itself, it stands as opinion. However, if this opinion is based on some sort of premises or reasoning, then this could be the subject of discussion. Specifically, a lot of negativity comes from not understanding technical details about GW2, and therefore are unfounded. But no matter how hard the GW2 fans will try to explain, all there attempts to do so will be automatically be put down by the haters as fanboy attempts to defend their game.
A nice example is the GW2 combat system that saw quite a bit of discussion since BW ended. A lot of people claim the combat is just a zergfest pressing skills as fast as possible when they are of cooldown and claim that dodging etc is not that important at all. Many people who have played the BW a bit longer than 2 hours disagree with these statements. I've seen posts twice as long as this one explaining in detail why the above sentiments are invalid. Yet, every time someone will take the time to explain the issue extensively, it is shot down as a fanboy attempt at defending the game against any form of negativity. Any underlying argumentation and reasoning behind the sentiments at hand are completely ignored by the haters.
tl;dr: Not every GW2 fan will defend GW2 blindly, and not every post GW2 fans make is an attempt to defend it against negativity. What matters is the reasoning and the argumentation of the post that validates the point it is making, nothing else. This is often disregarded by the haters, who will just blindly assume that any positivity is the result of blind fanboism, regardless of argumentation or reasoning. Even in cases where opinions, that rely completely on technical premises, get debunked by GW2 fans because those premises are simply not true, the haters will pull the strawman and claim that all of it is just the result of blind fanboism.
Comments
It happens to every "hyped" mmo, it's just the way of MMO, there will be haters and there will be fanboys. The most vocal fanboy are those who defend a game blindly, thus they generate the haters. It's the cycle of MMO life!
I realize this ofcourse, but the thing is that any discussion regarding the BW is getting trolled lately. Impressions get discussed, but anything positive can appearantly only be the result of blind fanboism. Dont mind the half page long part of the post upon which the opinion is based, if it is positive and debunking something negative it can only be the result of fanboism and should be regarded as such.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Pretty much this.
Sad but true. On the other hand, sparring with one another on forums gives us something to do while waiting for the next BWE.
EDIT: snippage.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Yeah the cycle has to stop. It has gotten out of hand and prevents us from having actual productive discussions on the games we DO like.
The blind fanaticism of the defensive fanboy hurts their respective game more than they realize, which in turn agitates another user into attacking with a rebuttal from either sheer frustration or for the purpose of trolling. Which then causes the fanatic to reply in kind, and on and on and on. They are hurting the MMORPG genre as a whole without ever realizing it.
Unfortunately this is a biproduct of the new "Generation Me", where they want everything handed to them immediately. A generation where people are awarded for simply existing, and everything is about "me, me, me, now, now, now", never to actually work for anything, nor appreciate the journey while focused on a set goal.
This isn't really about GW2, it's about some not liking the fact that others really like or really hate something.
If the opinion is not well expressed by the reader than the 'trolls', 'fanboys' or simple 'haters' will retaliate because they see an easy mark.
The point of these posts is never to discuss, but to abase and ridicule them to feed some egotistical need they have, enabling themselves to feel better.
If you were already happy, you wouldn't feel the desire to put down anyone, you'd be content to simply live and let live.
Those with valid points tend to make them with discourse, logic and fairplay. We can't agree with everyone as we each have our own unique perspective on things, but respecting and understanding someone else's point of view is key to good communication. Without these, we have what we see sometimes here with the condescension, ridicule and insults.
My thoughts on the matter. :P
This is an entertainment industry, of course it's going to be all about me. I certainly don't spend my money to entertain you or anyone else for that matter. As far as I'm concerned, the term "work" has no logical basis for argument in the context of entertainment. Work is an achievement or survival type goal, not entertainment.
As for your generational comment, I've yet to see one that hasn't been just as self absorbed in its goals as the previous or future generations that are being compared. There is no such thing as a "Golden Age" and the grass is always greener than it is presently, isn't it.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Actually sure! In one ongoing thread right now, titled something like "did it meet expectations?", someone just wrote a page long writeup claiming he played beta and that is was very underwhelming etc. A lot of the things he described where not at all how the game was in my experience. Then I read something most peculiar in his post, he claimed to have played engineer, and how it was kind of fun, being able to SWAP weapon-sets (rifle to pistol). This is not possible for an engineer to do in combat. Every class but elementalist and engineer can swap weapons during combat. conclusion: Lies about being beta and saying it was underwhelming.
Other than this specific example, i suggest reading through threads on gw2 a bit. Often when negativity towards the game is challenged, it not responded to by focusing on the reasoning and arguments, but by focusing on the post being a GW2 fanboy. I know you have problems with melee in GW2, and i can not discuss this with you since i didn't play any melee. However people claiming that the combat is a spamfest of abilities are simply lying or not understanding the combat system at all, as explained my multiple posts.
i found it that ppl who hate gw2 wasnt selected to beta :P
so they rage at everything
I dunno, I see the opposite happening quite a bit. Every time someone who just finished playing the BWE raises concerns is told that they simply do not know how to play and that they just don't understand what ANet is trying to do.
Thankfully ANet has their own metrics and has identified some of the issues which they are going to work on. Of course, this just leads to the fanbois claiming that ANet is "dumbing down" the game which is the common cop out.
Why are you worried about who hates or who likes gw2? If you like gw2, why are you worried someone else doesnt like? This world would be a sad place if we all liked the same things wouldnt it?
People with a lot fo experience in mmos, who saw several coming, going, failing or suceeding will probably have an opinion towards the 'nothing special' or 'just another game' type of opinions that might be considered as 'hate' type.
On the other hand, people new to the genre that might have a better opinion and might even defende gw2 as the new eureka of the mmo scene.. Some of them will even say gw2 loading screen is a proof that gw2 is revolutionary.. go figure why.
See.. many opinions, probably none 100% right.. but thats what they are.. opinions.
I disagree. I stay on the critical side of every MMO I am interested in. My current favorite MMO is Rift, yet I was called a troll on their forum, because I was always critical on the game's improvements.
i wanted the game to do the best it could, because I like it. So I spent most of my time talking about the bad things, than I do talking about the good things, because I want the bad things to go. No point praising all the good things over and over.
Another thing,,,,
I SERIOUSLY HATE HYPE!!!!!
I may have told this story once before, but the last MMO I was hyped on was Warhammer Online. But the overhyped zealots of Fanboys turned me off from the game, which is why I avoided it.
this is why I hate hype so much, because it tend to blind people and turn them into Security Guards Fanboys of any product who wil blindly defend all Critism.
hype and marketing exploit people's emotions, and mindset. I hate that. To me, it seem wrongful. And I look out for that kind of thing a lot, especially in the MMO genre. Yeah it's there job to sell, but taking advantage of these marketing exploits seem immoral.
This is why I don't trust marketing catch phrases like " This game has no grind" or "Endgame starts at level 1"
All of that is just marketing talk junk. I hate it all.
Game developers that put the word Online in the title, and sell their game as a MMO. That kind of shit piss me off big time.
Or what about developers that put online login requirments into their RPG game, so that people think its a MMORPG. Come now, even Anet pulled off that kind of move with GW1, even if they claim they didn't advertise it as a MMORPG,
In one of their statements, that say GW1 was second to WoW!! How can a Non MMO like GW1 be second to a MMO like WoW?(UNLESS YOU WERE TRYING TO CONVINCE CONSUMERS THAT GW1 IS A MMO)
shit like that seem immoral. Respect must be earned back after that.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Lol...I was waiting for this.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
LOL
The same can be said about the blind hype as well. There was a post where the user touted GW2 having the most hardcore open world pvp. Then he proceeded to redefine what the term "Open Word PVP" meant.
Another thread where one user states GW2 has no instances at all, then proceeds to redefine the word "instances" to fit his term.
Another thread where user states GW2 has absolutely no hype at all and everyone else is wrong, yeah we all know how that turned out.
Another thread where a user states how glad he is Arenanet did away with all quests completely, yet we all played BWE, we saw quests, they were just delivered to us in a very imaginative way that made the game appealing, to me at least.
Looking over his post, I notice he was bring up issues in the game, and some things that he likes.
Where the "Hating" come in at like the OP described?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I agree, you have made some critical points about the game that I think were informative, and you were jumped on by the fanboys immediately. It was uncalled for, but at the sametime I think it had more to do with your past post history than anything else.
When someone speaks about himself in third person, you really must wonder...
It's funny that I was thinking the same thing yesterday and was going to post something similar until I read this.
I agree completely with OP. MMO's are something of taste, you find one that you like, one that interests/excites you and you stick with it. For me, it was GW2. I saw everything it had to offer and I was excited about everything. So I come to a place like this and I see people hating on MMO's they don't like because they like playing ____ instead.
I don't go off into the tera forums or the swtor forums to tell all of those fans why I don't like their MMO's. Instead, I just don't play those games because they don't interest me.
Someone's taste in MMO's are similar to their taste in music. Just becasue I like _____ and you like _____ doesn't mean that who I like is awful, or who you like lacks talent. It only means that I'm probably not going to listen to your music because it doesn't interest me.
I just don't understand why people who have different views can't leave each other alone.
There's nothing 'blind' about our defense anymore, and yet the haters continue. We've PLAYED the damn game, enjoyed it immesely, and yet there's still people trying to tell us what's wrong with it (and furthermore, what's wrong with us). Like the OP said, it's one thing to discussion concerns and crticism, and it's another to just be a 'hater'.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.